What will we do if they steal this year's election?

[Cyrano]

So we go to bed on Tuesday night, November 7th, with all the votes that have been counted so far indicating we've won back the House of Representatives. And then we wake up on Wednesday morning to find that, no, the returns were misleading and the thugs are still in charge of everything.

Let's face it. They have the ways, means and will to do it. What's to stop them? Honor? Patriotism? Fair play? Divine intervention?

It's really a question we should be facing now as another stolen election is not only possible but, given the past three elections, probable.

LTTEs would be useless. Marching on Washington won't do squat. Screaming at the tops of our lungs and bouncing off the walls until we take a handful of valium would only be a temporary respite. So what do we do?

Taking to the streets with pitchforks and torches is a euphemism for arming ourselves to take back our government by means of a bloody revolt. But it's my belief that even this would be useless. They own the military and the police. Violence on our part, as much as it is a fantasy shared by many, would merely be an elegant form of suicide. A successful insurrection takes organization and a ready-to-go infrastructure of disciplined, trained, well-led revolutionaries. And that doesn't exist.

So my question stands. What would we do? I wish I had a sane answer. What's yours?

[rubberducky]

1. What a depressing thought.

I truely do not know what would happen. Look what happened in Mexico, they put up a good fight,but lost in the end. But, I wonder how far we would be pushed before we do some serious pushing back.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

2. Investigate; go to law if you can find proof.

If you can find concrete proof of election fraud, you'll be able to obtain convictions; if not you should at least acknowledge the possibility that it didn't happen.

[Cyrano]

9. Good thought, but they own the courts too.

[sweetheart]

3. The identity test

Lets say you have no identity in particular, like an actor or an actress,
that you get 'in character' in order to talk to us; in order to write that.

Then, you've prepared a concept in mind as to why your character has any
role at all in this charade, that it is an actor, and not just a victem of
the steam roller of life. So why do you feel, that your generation is any
more special than the same persons as yourself for the past century who've
been crushed by the american rightwing corporatists politically, but who
are not clear on adapting to achieve their objectives, the neo-underground,
where the propaganda of identity politics is the trap, the net used to contain
and controll the masses. And its rhetoric is strong indeed, just i find that
when you use the word 'we' a lot, it starts to ring hollow.

We are the human race, the people of the earth who universally pray for bush and
everything that is in any way related to him and his republican evil cult, that
there never again be a republican party after 2007. The evil cult has gone over
the edge, and god is sorting it out, the big hand can make big waves when fishing
round in the fishtank for poisonous fish, that giving nazis big distance, will
keep one safe in the post-nazi era beyond bush and his stormtruuppen, his nuclear
threats, his violence against women, and despicable abuse of democracy.

I don't know who we are anymore, mate.... but i'll toast you and your family's
long health when the republicans go down, the team deserves to lose, and every
goal scored against them is good crack.

[blue cat]

4. The only thing that I think I know for sure

is that nothing will happen to them, after seeing what happened in Mexico.

[Blackthorn]

5. If armed revolution is useless, then you might as well just die now

"They own the military and the police. Violence on our part, as much as it is a fantasy shared by many, would merely be an elegant form of suicide. A successful insurrection takes organization and a ready-to-go infrastructure of disciplined, trained, well-led revolutionaries. And that doesn't exist."

I've said here numerous times, 10 million people marching on the White House will be no match for any police or armed forces.

[Cyrano]

13. Nice thought to which my answer is, Tienemen Square.

[Blackthorn]

27. There were not 10 million people in Tianaman Square

That's the point. It truly needs to be "You, the people". Sheer weight of numbers is the only way to win. I think you underestimate exactly what 10 million people would look like and what it would take to physically stop all of them.

[Cyrano]

31. And how would this hypothetical 10 million find food, water, restrooms,

etc. Who would "lead?" What would they do? What would be their unified message and their intent? Aside from expressing rage, what would be the desired outcome?

My point is that if somehow, someway, 10 million people just happened to show up in Washington filled with anger and hatred, it would be nothing more than an undisciplined mob with no specific game plan or achievable goal. It would be pure chaos and a very dangerous place to be for everyone involved.

[Blackthorn]

36. Allow me to elaborate

By using the internet and the various leftist sites around the internet, to organise as many people as can be contacted and motivated, to organise a march on the White House, with the sole intent of physically removing the current government from power.

I'm not saying its the most practical method, but to me, its the only chance the US has to ever be "for the people" again. Mass armed revolution.

[Ripley]

41. Excuse me.

"Aside from expressing rage.." What the Hell more do we need? Revolution is MESSY. If people have to shit on Pennsylvania Avenue, so be it. If Americans are too fucking weak to get dirty this next go round, and I'm talking 08 because 06 will just be low turnout, pukes will not vote D, they will stay home, well then Americans deserve every face kick they get at the gas pump, grocery store and pharmacy.

MOB RULE. Every Corporate Politician's nightmare. Pure chaos. Don't You think the Tea Party was a tad chaotic?

[Lautremont]

30. To which my answer is Bolivia.

[loves_dulcinea]

29. nothing elegant in that.

just a big smear of effluvia, a fleet of bulldozers do a hell of a job on a crowd.

[Blackthorn]

37. Give crowds some credit.

It only takes one guy to forcibly remove the driver. And realistically, there is no way even 100,000 bulldozers would be able to run down and kill 10,000,000 people.

It's a matter of practicality. They own the media, they own the courts, they own Congress, they own corporate America. The only way to fight that is with the one thing the populace still has. Numbers.

[keepCAblue]

6. What do you mean "IF" ? n/t

[ThomWV]

7. Sell out and leave

[madokie]

8. I think it is more likely than not that they will steal it

all the time the dems are trying to frame the issues the re:puke:'s are concentrating on stealing an election.

[derby378]

10. Arm yourself anyway

How many people placed bets that Washington and his colonial rebels would be smashed by the British? It was close, but we won anyway.

[Horse with no Name]

11. This is Strike 3

We're out if they steal this election.
That is why it is so important.

[omega minimo]

12. Start talking about "Next Time"

:sarcasm:












just like happened Last Time

[BeFree]

17. Next time is gonna be..... fun.

If they do steal it this time, they may get caught. How?

Wherever there is a paper ballot or paper trail, there is a way to check the machine count. Only by double-checking the machines can they be found to be stealing the election, and I think there are now enough of us who will be double-checking the machines. Be ready where you vote to double-check the machines.

Then book a trip to DC for the rally.

[omega minimo]

20. How?

"Be ready where you vote to double-check the machines."



If there's constructive info in Elections Forum, this might be a good time for some outreach to GD/P. They skeered a lot of people off long ago...........................................................................


:hi:

[BeFree]

40. Yes, well

There is a bit of controversy surrounding the subject and many a plant has tended to disrupt the proceedings making a tough subject even harder to get a handle on.

How to double-check the machines? If you have a paper ballot or trail, demand an audit of those - do not take it laying down that the machines have counted the votes correctly.

A simple audit of one race on 20% of the ballots should be enough to prove the machine counts. Your congressional race might be the best of the bunch to audit.

Remember that it is not up to citizens to prove the veracity of the machine counts - it is the responsibility of the election officials to do the proving. Demand that they do their job.

[omega minimo]

43. Plant?

No it was the superdedicated, hyper technical, our-way-or-the-highway contingent that dominated....

[helderheid]

14. I have no idea but I think you're absolutely right. *sigh* I'm voting

anyway and will get as many people registered to vote as I can.

[jen4clark]

15. Excellent question, Cyrano.

I think it will be time to decide if we're willing to die for our country. We either hit the streets, or leave. And you're right, if we hit the streets, the thugs will have no hesitation -- in fact will relish -- shooting us down. I have no doubt of that.

Thankfully, I think there are enough people who know what's going on with the e-vote machines that we won't be alone.

The hard part about "proving" fraud was committed, is that they can program the machines without leaving a trace that anything was tampered with. So, we have to act NOW, and DURING the election -- before the votes are "counted."

There are toolkits available and we all need to be involved. Something for everyone here. It's up to us. We CAN do this.

Citizens Tool Kit: Take Back Your Elections
http://www.blackboxvoting.org/toolkit-intro.pdf#search=%22tool%20kit%20election%20watch%22 <---(pdf file)

And for those who hate Bev Harris to the point of not wanting to get involved with anything she has anything to do with:

Election Transparency Project - Verified Voting Foundation Newsletter, Sept 2006

http://verifiedvotingfoundation.org/article.php?id=6386

[Balbus]

16. A better question is, "What if we lose another election?"

Will we bitch and moan and whine and blame it all on "stolen elections" again instead of not putting forth an idea and goal that people want?

Probably.

[leftchick]

18. "If" they steal it?

Count on it. I am.

[Rosco T.]

19. What do we do? Simple...

[patricia92243]

21. Nothing - as usual. I, personally, will probably not keep up with politic

politics anymore. Our Democratic leaders cannot really do anything, because they are the minority.

[stepnw1f]

22. I better not... I'd get banned (nt)

[Horse with no Name]

33. ....

yep.:thumbsup:

[B Calm]

23. A new Civil War!

[silverojo]

24. They'll only steal it if it's close

The Repukes wouldn't be so worried about things like supporting LIE-berman, if they weren't scared that elections are going to go beyond the margin of error.

If people see the polls showing a Dem candidate leading by a substantial amount, then s/he loses...then "muddle America" would be up in arms, because it's THEIR votes stolen.

As long as elections are close, they're safe, because they can just tack on some extra votes to "win".

Republicans, themselves, are admitting that they're going to lose seats in the house. They wouldn't be so worried if they controlled all the elections.

[dflprincess]

25. I'm assuming we'll have to take to the streets

What I want to know is, what will the official response of the Democratic Party be if it happens again?

[MzNov]

26. In the Streets!!! Everyone. Everywhere.

[loves_dulcinea]

28. one suggestion, two words.

guerilla politix.

how is it waged? no, really. i have no clue, only the idea itself.

[Cyrano]

34. Good point. Guerilla politics is exactly what Karl Rove has been

practicing for years.

[Cobalt-60]

39. Let us examine the situation

Assume they are successful at stealing the election.
The first thing they shut down is the Internet. There's just too much terra there.
What now?
Without communication we're down to small groups.
I think if we're going to have a contingency plan, it needs to be based on cells.
Beyond that I'm not sure how to proceed.

[and-justice-for-all]

32. I really hope they fail miserably....

I will not live in a Theocractic Nation so it looks like I will try very hard to move to Germany.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[tjwash]

38. Watch as the USA goes bankrupt and crumbles, like all empires have.

Watch as we eventually splinter into a dozen separate entities like the old Soviet Union, or the Romans, or the old British empires did.

Watch as the reddest of the red states degrade into mediocrity, as China and Japan start using them for their cheap labor base, and ship out all of their sweat shop jobs to places like Iowa and Nebraska.

Watch as all the countries start calling in the trillions we owe world wide, and snatch peoples houses and livelihoods out from under them, aided of course by the very people that they voted for because "they didn't want to see them damn homos get married."

Watch the leaders that we elected because "them damn women were just getting too uppity about pro-choice and shit like that, and it just had to stop" help the people that they owe the most money by passing laws so that they can snatch up all the valuable farmland in that part of the country, and give the arrogant people that thought that by happenstance, of birthright that they were entitled to live fat and happy off of the sweat of other peoples labor a taste of their own medicine.

Or something to that effect...

[focusfan]

42. Simple" take a vaction"

Eveyone take a two week vacation or get the flu,STOP paying on unsecured debt the rich need us a lot more than they know, we are the majority and if we stick together we can change things stop whinning and just do it,another thing STOP trying to keep up with the Jones quit trying to impress people with bigger cars and houses,STOP buying health insurance get rid of phones,cable TV (use an antenna its free)

[truedelphi]

44. TAKE ACTION NOW. Call Pelosi in the House, Call yr Senators

they need to be discussing this NOW.

I tried to get people to call Pelosi, who is the minority party leader, about three weeks ago - only a small handful of folks got it and did it


HERE ARE THE NUMBERS for Pelosi 415 556 4862 for Californians in Bay Area
Rest of USA 202 225 4965 Do it now.

If we don't start making noise now, our Dem leaders will be standing there
once again like deer in the headlights, wringing their little deer-like paws and meowing like newborn kittens, the day after the election .

DO THIS TODAY! Tell Pelosi that you want both her esteemed self and all other House of Reps to start grabbing media time and talking about the voting situation. The voter fraud, the voter purges, the machinery that is proprietary and easy to corrupt. You know the drill

mention DU. When I spoke to Pelosi staffers three weeks ago, at both the California and Washington offices, none of them knew about DU. The darn Freepers pay attention to this forum - so Pelosi really should have one of her staff listening to us - we are the progressives and she needs to know what people NOT in the Beltway are thinking

[Cyrano]

45. I called, but the person I spoke with was more interested if I was

from California than in what I was trying to say about the possibility of another stolen election.

[truedelphi]

46. That's a shame

Feinstein used to have staff that would only take your comments if you were a major corporation
making a donation.

Don't know the protocol to get the staff to realize that they are the public servants and
they should above all else be willing to listen to the constituency of whatever politician they are working for