What are we hoping to accomplish with fillibustering Alito?

[napi21]

I was just listening to theFourth Estate radio program and they were talking about how the Dems MUST fillibuster this guy.

I've been thinking about that, and yes, I called my two Senators who are both Pubs.

But what are we really hoping for? Sure we might be able to ditch Alito, but who will be the next nominee? Lutig, Brown, Pickering? It would be different if 06 was a Presidential election year, but it's NOT. Somehow, I can't believe the Dems can keep every Shrub nominee off the court until 08! I guess I sound like a defeatist, but what can we really accomplish here?

[Stephanie]

1. Um, 2006 is a Congressional election year.

Everything could change.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

2. Absolutely nothing

There aren't the votes and a filibuster would just be perceived by voters as the Democrats screwing up and losing something else.

I'm so sick of watching them screw up, I cannot tell you.

But, I agree with you.

[rzemanfl]

13. Leftie. It is for MORALE- it would be like the Doolittle raid in WWII.

Wouldn't do much except show that we are not defeated and can still stand up and throw a punch.

I have argued elsewhere here that when BushCo is finally gone Congress will have to increase the size of the Supreme Court. It has been done before.

Hope you are well, it has been a while. Look in the archives for my Shirley Booth post, it is a stitch.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

18. SHIRLEY BOOTH?

How DARE you?

She's always been my roll <sick> model.

Shirley and Bugs Bunny.

Oh, hell, it's not WWII, but I'd agree with you if I thought there was ONE Senator who might do something noteworthy. But, I don't think there's even one. They're programmed, cautious weasels who don't dare speak with an original voice or commit to something that's not derivative.

Why increase the size of the Supreme Court? FDR didn't have a whole lot of luck with that idea.

It HAS been a long time. January is always hectic, watching the Democrats, trying to choose between just putting my head in the oven or hanging myself from the flagpole.

Hope you've been well.

And now, Shirley Booth, here I come!

[rzemanfl]

26. We don't have natural gas lines in our neck of the woods nor a

flagpole (and whose flag could I fly except an upside down one?) So it's the car in the garage, and since the car has not been in the garage for eight years, because in Florida your garage is your basement, that would mean I would have to clean out the garage and then people would think I was having a garage sale and that would be a pain in the ass and I'd have to put prices on everything and get a permit and put out signs, and deal with the pre-salers and all that, so I struggle on...

[OldLeftieLawyer]

34. From now on,

you are to be known as "Dorothy Parker," your wit, grace, style, and utter disdain for this world defining you as the shining star she once was:

Resume

Razors pain you;
Rivers are damp;
Acids stain you;
And drugs cause cramp.
Guns aren't lawful;
Nooses give;
Gas smells awful;
You might as well live.

-- Dorothy Parker

(May I call you "Dotty," since, well, you know ..........?)

[OldLeftieLawyer]

21. OK, I give up

You find it, will you please? And post it in response here, since I've closed PMs?

PULEEEEEEEZE?

Love,
Bugs

[rzemanfl]

22. Here you go:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=105x4597380

Closed your PMs? How am I going to send you passionate communications now????

[OldLeftieLawyer]

24. Ah, THANK YOU

Smoke signals?

We'll talk, doll.

Let me take a gander here .............

[OldLeftieLawyer]

25. That's just sacrilege

and genius.

Now, imagine Shirley Booth trying to blow herself.

(Welcome home, sugarpuss)

[rzemanfl]

29. Doesn't that carry the risk of an air embolism? Of course she's

dead, but still it is risky behavior and I refuse to think about it.

I was amazed that a few people took that post seriously and by how freaking huge it got.

Gotta crash, good to hear from you.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

37. Oh, dear doG...........

I just read that whole thread, and it's the funniest damn thing I've ever seen on DU. I especially like the folks who ........... wait ......... what's that whirring sound?

Oh, it's only you going right over heads.

OK. As I was saying, I'm absolutely thrilled by the really smart and funny people who got into it with you. Just a glorious way to start a glorious Sunday here.

You're my hero. But, leave Zasu Pitts the hell alone,

or you'll have me to answer to.

[rzemanfl]

42. I have been spelling that poor woman's name wrong for years.

I only remember her from the mid-1950's Gale Storm Show a/k/a Oh! Susanna where she played a real ditz with an unusual and nervous voice working on an ocean liner with Storm. This woman has more dates of birth than anyone I can think of, ranging from 1894 to 1900 and nearly all points in between. What did we ever do before google?

That thread was fun. Particularly all the tangents, Francisco Franco, Madge the manicurist, the Kettles, Don Knotts and so on.

ZaSu says Shrub is dumber than Francis the talking mule and she ought to know.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

45. My Little Margie

Even as a child watching that show, I wanted to slap Gale Storm, but her Daddy was nice. Ever wonder about those two, without a mother in the house?

Of course, there was no one like I Married Joan, with Joan Davis, who made Gale Storm look like the sleazy little tramp I do believe she was.

I had a girlfriend who did nothing but sprawl on a couch and watch old movies on TV. When I got tired of sunlight and fresh air, I went to her house. There, I discovered Zasu Pitts, who was a real piece of work in those old movies.

Zasu had spunk. She could have taken Fay Wray with one hand tied behind her back.

[rzemanfl]

47. Here's the question, what was the name of the real old female

neighbor on My Little Margie? No googling.

I bet you have even heard of "Ma Perkins" I remember listening to it when my Mom had it on the radio during my Christmas vacation from grade school. A factory caught on fire! When Spring vacation rolled around they were still watching the place for stray embers.

[OldLeftieLawyer]

48. Bea Bernadet,

but I don't remember her character's name.

Am I right?

A big "No" on Ma Perkins, which means you're SO SO SO much older than I am.

I have to sit down now.

Actually, I barely remember radio shows, save for "The Shadow," who now, by the way, answers phones for me. Lamont's quite dependable, if not terribly spry.

Was it Bea?

[alittlelark]

23. sigh.

[bpilgrim]

36. resistance

is something much more than the nothing some have calculated.

peace

[OldLeftieLawyer]

38. But, picking your fights

is smarter than random resistance in the face of more embarrassment.

So much of politics is perception, and the Democrats are just mangling everything they're being handed, in large part, thanks to Reid.

We're not at war - contrary to what some might say - but we do need powerful leadership in the Party, and, so far, it's not there.

Where's our Karl Rove?

[bpilgrim]

40. when does any fighting begin?

if we use conventional wisdom - if we THINK/CALCULATE we will lose - we will never fight back since they own our four estates and look where that strategy has gotton us.

look how well FIGHTING BACK has worked for the reTHUGs even when they didn't win every battle. It is ALL about PERCEPTION and right now the perception of dems is WEAK & COWARDLY who are just as corrupt as the reTHUGs.

Well, if they don't fight back on our most important issues of the day how are they EVER gonna change that perception?

fyi: DU is our KR and NYT only better but we need leadership that is willing to lead.

peace

[ClassWarrior]

3. Didn't I just see you on another thread complaining Harry Reid doesn't...

..."have balls??" THAT's what this is all about. Having the BALLS to stand firm and do the right thing - come next what may.

NGU.

[napi21]

12. Yes you did. And I'm all for Dems having balls.

The reason I posted the question on the fillibuster is because I would love to see another O'Connor on the court, but I don't see it happening. Even IF we fillibuster and ditch Alito, what are we going to get? Shrub has me sooo disgusted and I really do feel like he's going to get his way no matter what.

I know 06 is a congressional election year, and I'm doing everything I can to get a Dem majority again, but I just can see anything that will stop Shrub from packing the SC.

I even had a bit of hope for Roberts. Sure I know he's a pub, but I listened to the hearings, and he's a smart guy. I was hoping he would have the interests of the American people in mind when he cast his votes, and NOT his party afiliation. After seeing the results of his vote last week and that he aligned himself with Scalia and Thomas, I've lost that hope too.

The post you referenced was close to my last gasp of hope. The Dems may not be able to accomplish anything, but they don't have to appologize for trying!

[mom cat]

33. This is a fight we CAN win... When you stand up to a bully, they back off.

The last time a pres lost two right wing nominations, a moderate was chosen for the third.
Furthermore, Shrub is YERY unpopular. If he has a fit, it will backfire. We must stop cowering and stand up for what the MAJORITY of Americans want!
If we do not stand up for the majority now, then you can kiss November goodby.

[FloridaPat]

4. If I could control the future here is what I would like to see:

1. Filibuster Alito
2. * has a fit
3. Impeachment proceedings start in house
4. Senate says no more judges unless obvious middle of the road until after trial.
5. * and Cheney convicted & imprisoned'
6. * & Cheney sent to the Hague for war crimes trial.
7. all top repubs arrested
8. First Democrat in line for secession picks new nominee for Supreme Court.

I can dream can't I? I see no reason why such a criminal like * should pick a supreme court person until after the trials.

[Silverhair]

9. And after you dream, you have to wake up to the real world. NT

[Catch22Dem]

10. I'll see your scenario, and raise you

Legal pot and beer-filled rain clouds. That's the only thing your scenario is lacking. Other than that, it's freakin' PERFECT!

[clitzpah queen]

5. Show that the Dems won't roll over and go gentle into that goodnight!

There's a momentum that comes with SPINE GENERATION. One step at a time. Let's pull out all the stops this next week to get the Dem (dim?) Senators to Filibuster Alito. It's not useless at all. The least thing it will accomplish is to send a message of strength. Since when does one fight only when victory is assured?
So many Repub scandals cascading around us. We just gotta keep up OUR end of the bargain. Such wusses we are. There are countries where people's lives are threatened to wage struggles that have no assured victories -- and they DO IT. We are not in that situation (YET). Any easy pitch for Alito's confirmation increases the speed at which the U.S. will progress along that dark path.

[DanCa]

6. My hope is that we can delay until the mid term elections.

Hopefully if we get enough seats in the house and senate Dubya will have to loosen his grip and will appoint a moderate judge.

[unblock]

7. if nothing else, it shows they have some power

and therefore must be listened to. the banana republicans have treated slim majorities as if they were compelling landslide supermajorities. they completely ignore the democrats. well, that's not entirely true. sometimes they insult and propose wedge issue crap to embarrass the democrats.

but if the democrats filibuster -- it almost doesn't matter the issue or the nominee, just USE THE POWER YOU HAVE -- then the banana republicans will have to listen to the democrats and work with them, or at least enough of them to avoid a filibuster.

it's kinda like, for more presidents, you have to break out that veto pen at some point, preferably early, to prove that you can and will use it. you gain clout by exercising power. shrub is a bizarre exception in having never vetoed, but this just goes to show how much the banana republicans are in cahoots, calluding in private to get agreements while corrupting the institutions that are supposed to be at least somewhat at odds with each other.

[Beelzebud]

8. How about preserving the constitution and the ideals this nation

was founded upon.

Good enough for you?

[MatrixEscape]

11. What I am trying to figure out ... really ...

Is what are we trying to accomplish by ignoring the fact that the money is what matters?

You know, it all filters down, corporate-style, in the pyramid of power.

So, we all play a part in this three-ring circus and channel and focus our energies on the show we are given. Ah, partisan politics and the other sundry items that pop-up for the cathode-ray devotees, etc.

But am I wrong to proclaim that the God is always and ultimately money, as grim and disgusting as that is going to sound, (especially to those with vested interests in it, one way or another) it is more factual than a matter of opinion?

When profit and bottom-line affect and determine everything we do, see, and reap, why are we gullible enough to focus our energies, anger, and need for results, on the superficial politics that are presented to us by a media that knows that they are the very tools that keep us all managed? I can't get my head around that.

I know that life is complicated and our World is even more so, but why is the Federal Reserve System not a strong, concrete focus at all now? How many of you are so opiated by the idea that the mere mention of a conspiracy theory is enough to divert your attention from the axiom that following the money brings you to the truth, today?

I think that most of you know that Repugs and Dems are motivated and stroked by big money. And yet, we waste a lot of time fighting the fights we are given. Struggles that are assured to evoke our emotions and cloud what might be behind this all.

If you applied what goes on in your very own daily life to what is going on in the bigger, poltical picture, I would not even have to relate this to you or mention it. It would be common knowledge. If you don't pay the rent/bills/insurance, where are you and what power do you have now? Go live on Walden Pond? Yeah, right.

You have a cabal of puppeteers and you will fight to your death to ignore that. Yet, that may actually be the cause, source, and solution to all the various problems being put before you by the media. That is not paranoia or wild consipracy, it is as close as your boss and the poltics of a company you might work for. It is there before you eyes, and yet, you do not see.

Follow the money and get to the source! Find the Hydra and stop wasting your time and effort on the endless tendrils it presents for you to slay.

[clitzpah queen]

16. So, Matrix, let me get this right....you are saying that the SCOTUS is

irrelevant to us all now? Given there's much accuracy in what you've said (although the delivery reminded me a bit of Hal Halbrook's monologues as Deep Throat in All the Presidents' Men) -- give some solid examples of what constructive (or deconstructive) activities of individuals/activists would need to follow out of that analysis.

[MatrixEscape]

27. Proceed as usual!

I think that, in a multi-faceted and complex thing that is life, you can, and will, respond as you see fit. I also think that we both agree that this is a pivotal problem and that it exposes the strata that is the experience.

I would not bow to the idea that anything at all is irrelevant to anyone. That would be presumptive and extremely far reaching on my part.

How could I give any example of anything that would allow anyone, in his/her right mind, to do anything activistic about the underlying premise that I have related as culmination of my own understanding?

We, according to my initial premise and statement, have a vast and underlying problem. That is, if you accept the philosophy and the underpinnings of a virtually capitalistic society, as we are experiencing. If you consider its basic goals and tenets, then you may want to conclude that they are the factors that you would base any results upon.

What I offer is not the solution, per se. It is merely the notation that we should focus on the underlying premise to the point that we can grasp the knowledge/power required to deal with the ensuing facts-at-hand.

I do not want to be premature, but I see a populace laboring under a delusion based on a cabal that was formed in the early part of the Nineteenth-Century that manages to function and exist in modern times in a very covert manner. Yet, the population buys into the obviously secondary aspects of the charade and is even willing to categorize references to it as the now deprecated category of “conspiracy theory” even though there are so many facts to substantiate the obvious fact that money, not politics or religion, predominates in World affairs across-the-board.

So, if we can establish that matter and make it a widely-known tribunal on current affairs, then we can, together, join to reach a consensus about how to deal with it and the results it has in our lives an political struggles.

If not, we will continue to waste time and energy on partisan politics as if they matter more than money and we will get the predicted and desired results that come from the top of the well-honed hierarchical pyramid.

The acknowledgment of this factor and public acceptance precludes the solutions that may follow. We need recognition and widespread consensus first. I am sure you will agree.

Ignorance is no place to search for valid and useful solutions!

[clitzpah queen]

31. I believe you need to simplify your speech - if you want to be

effective. I'm not talking Sound Bites -- just --less convoluted, more direct.
To start your post with "Proceed As Usual" -- what the hell does THAT mean? For many people that means: Do Nothing -- but bitch and moan a bit. If your belief is ultimately to change the economic system we live under -- there are many steps that lead up TO that.
Right now there is a strong cultural wave out there promoting absolute Individualism, selfishness, greed and then suspicion, fear, aggression -- all things promoting a fascistic outcome. I believe the most important step is not allowing the fear to spread and set in any further by educating and encouraging folks to fight back against Corporate dominance and all of its tendril like evils.

[bowens43]

14. The republicans will not allow us to filibuster

a supreme court nominee. This is a battle that can't be one. My fear is that a failed filibuster will cost us votes and control of the house and senate in November. We have nothing to gain but much to lose by filibustering.

[clitzpah queen]

19. Please explain why Waging the battle of a Filibuster (even if it does

not ultimately succeed) show MORE weakness than just doing a simple vote of "no" which requires no stiffened spine -- just uttering one syllable?

[debbierlus]

44. It is not up to them, if we filibuster, it is up to US

And, you could not be more wrong that this will cost the dems votes.

Because every day that goes by will bring new revelations about the Republican criminal activity.

We have:

The Abramoff scandal - Abramoff is about to sing and bring down a bunch of Republican senators.

Fitzgerald will soon bring charges against Rove.

And, more and more and more revelations about Bush's illegal spying will surface.

If we stop Alito now, we stop Bush from planting a supreme court justice that will decide to SANCTION his illegal behaviors.

If the neocons want to nuclear option, let them nuclear option....

The dems should shut down the Senate. SCREW the Republicans and their bullying tactics. This is the time to fight. This is literally a constitutional crisis, and wimpering in the corner is NOT allowed.

FIGHT

[feelthebreeze]

15. Sorry for this but: Blah, blah, blah...just filibuster Alito. Right thing

Right time.

[FightingIrish]

17. It's about taking a stand while we still can.

A fillibuster would call attention to a fight that has to be fought. We have given up the congress and the White House. Since 1967 only two of the thirteen justices confirmed have been Democratic nominations. Bush is loading the court at a time when his defiance of the law is an issue. We have too much to lose by doing nothing. If it is nothing more than a wake up call a fillibuster will be worth it.

[helderheid]

20. me thinks there may be a disruptor among us

[derby378]

28. Uh, excuse me?? Scalito would make Bush DICTATOR FOR LIFE

I say we filibuster the motherfucker and make him beg for his mommy.

[John Q. Citizen]

30. There are a few goals of a filibuster;

One is to do the right thing. Alito is a corporatist who will support vast presidental and corporate powers. Is standing up to thugs only a good thing during a presidential election year? Or is a good thing to do anytime?

Another reason is purely political. Would you vote for a party who is afraid of it's own shadow? Why would an independent vote for a party that caves on it's own professed values?

Another reason is to force the Repos to fold or to cheat, as in changing the rules in the middle of the game(nuclear option.) This would highlight The Party of Corruption as cheaters.

Another reason is to force bush to nominate in good faith. If the Demos succeed in stopping Alito, bush will have to decide whether to nominate a conservative who is acceptable to Democrats or to try (and maybe fail) yet again.

And the Dems need to keep their base. What's the point of voting Dem if they just fold in the face of a fight. The base has spoken loud and clear. We don't want Alito. Do they represent us, or do they do they just play it safe?

[Hardrada]

32. We must filibuster. Less Dunkirk. More Battle of Britain!!

Fat Rove dressed like Goering in a white uniform looking more and more dismayed. Would love to see that. (Except Hermann Wilhelm Goering was actually a brave combat veteran).

[robbedvoter]

35. Best case scenario: Bork to Souter. If not, slow down doom?

Stand on princilple? Trivial stuff like that.

[leesa]

39. You are hoping to make Americans notice that there is a problem.

Americans have their heads buried deeply up their asses and they are completely unaware that we are on the precipice of a dictatorship. A filibuster might wake a few up.

[lonestarnot]

41. Alito clearly left himself room for creation of the Unitary/Unilateral

Executive Branch. It is pretty clear he's not even going to place a matte over the Constitution before he walks on it. That's why we must filibuster, and our accomplishment will be to point this out or redline this destruction to America with a filibuster.

[debbierlus]

43. We are stopping a neo-con wet dream from getting on the court!

Are you kidding?

If the dems filibuster Alito, we will stand off a nominee that will baptize Bush dictator. And, if the dems do this...then there is every chance they will filibuster EVERY right wing neo-con nut job. If we can succeed in filibustering Alito, we can then work on the dems to work towards a united front on stopping all Bush nominees due to the fact that Bush is breaking the law and should not be allowed to add anyone to the bench during this constitutional crisis.

THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT!

[mmonk]

46. Keeping any remnants of checks and balances

and constitutional rights for our children and grandchildren.

[rocktivity]

49. I prefer token resistance to none at all.

If we can't win, we can't. But that's no reason to LET them defeat us!

:headbang:
rocknation

[caffefwee]

50. Protecting civil liberties, saving the nation from fascist forces

[caffefwee]

51. http://alitosamerica.org

http://www.alitosamerica.org