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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 10:49 PM
Original message
Senate appears to like Foreign IT workers over US workers
S2611 Amnesty Bill will allow 1.4 million High Tech IT workers almost 2 million
in the Immigration Bill ... Senate's bill will allow 2 million High tech workers from electrical engineers, IT specialists and contains no protection for US workers

Kennedy voted for this bill
McCain voted for this Bill

who else voted for this bill against the American Worker and Middle class...???
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AX10 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
1. Kennedy?
Are you sure?
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 10:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Thats what Lou said I think
Kennedy is for the Amnesty Bill right...
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liberaldemocrat7 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 03:40 AM
Response to Reply #1
16. Oh it had the poison pill IT worker scab amendment.
If the Democrats wanted a path to citizenship for illegal aliens here they had to accept the Republican poison pill of allowing businesses to run down the market of IT professionals in this country by allowing people from other countries who would work for a much lower salary.

The Republiklan party: masters of the new high tech colonialism.

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rrasile Donating Member (214 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 10:51 PM
Response to Original message
2. s2611
What all was connected to this bill. Check it out, you'll see why they voted for it.
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katsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 10:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Here's part of it...
http://www.democrats.org/a/2006/05/immigration_bil.php

"The legislation includes money to better secure the borders, provide a new guest worker program and give an eventual shot at citizenship to many of the estimated 11 million to 12 million immigrants in the country illegally."

Well, that bill just about solves providing illegal employers filling the jobs Americans won't do... and taking away the jobs Americans do want to do.

We're phucked.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 11:01 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. And Kennedy voted for it and McCain
Other Dems and Repubs for this Bill

Names please...
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katsy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 11:08 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Just searched yahoo...
hate to even post this link but it does give the votes:

http://www.alabamusa.com/mycountrypg2.html
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 07:33 AM
Response to Reply #7
18. and all those persons will become citizens
And they will outvote those who lost their jobs.
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skids Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 10:52 PM
Response to Original message
3. Yep.
Apparently American companies are just too busy rubber stamping H1-Bs to find the dozens of unemployed high tech IT workers I know and employ them. Gee I wonder why. :sarcasm:


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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 10:53 PM
Response to Original message
5. Link?
It would make it easier to look up all the other things in the bill.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 10:57 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Lou dobbs is ranting about it and the Senate is in the process
of passing it with Democrats helping it

Are the Dems Nuts???
I know the Republicans are for cheap labor but the Dems too???
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CrispyQ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 07:39 AM
Response to Reply #6
19. Six years of crap legislation has been passed with the help of
complicit dems. Ken Salazar is such a disappointment. Six year terms are too long. I'd like to vote that jerk out this fall.

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MH1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #5
20. thomas.loc.gov - enter the bill number, selct "Bill Number", click search
To make it easy for you: DU hero Russ Feingold voted for it; solid liberals Kerry, Boxer, and Harkin (plus others) voted for it. Kennedy and McCain were two of six cosponsors.

CRS summary of the bill (I don't see the IT worker provision but didn't read thoroughly, and this is only a summary. But it shows all the other stuff that was in the bill):

SUMMARY AS OF:
4/7/2006--Introduced.

Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2006 - Sets forth border security and enforcement provisions, including provisions respecting: (1) personnel and asset increases and enhancements; (2) a National Strategy for Border Security; (3) border security initiatives, including biometric data enhancements and a biometric entry-exit system, document integrity, and mandatory detention of aliens apprehended at or between ports of entry; and (4) Central American gangs.

Border Tunnel Prevention Act - Provides criminal penalties for construction, financing, or use of illegal border tunnels or passages.

Border Law Enforcement Relief Act of 2006 - Authorizes a border relief grant program for a tribal, state, or local law enforcement agency in a county: (1) no more than 100 miles from a U.S. border with Canada or Mexico; or (2) more than 100 miles from any such border but which is a high impact area.

Sets forth interior enforcement provisions, including provisions respecting: (1) alien terrorists; (2) alien street gang members; (3) illegal entry and reentry; (4) passport and immigration fraud; (5) criminal aliens; (6) voluntary departure; (7) detention and alternatives; (8) criminal penalties; (9) alien smuggling; (10) tribal lands security; (11) state and local enforcement of immigration laws; (12) expedited removal; and (13) alien protection from sex offenders.

Makes it unlawful to knowingly hire, recruit, or refer for a fee an unauthorized alien.

Establishes in the Treasury the Employer Compliance Fund.

Provides for additional worksite and fraud detection personnel.

Provides for a report examining the impacts of the current and proposed annual grants of legal status, including immigrant and nonimmigrant status, along with the current level of illegal immigration, on U.S. infrastructure and quality of life.

Establishes a temporary guest worker program (H-2C visa). Provides: (1) that the Secretary of Homeland Security shall determine H-2C eligibility; (2) for a three-year admission with one additional three-year extension; (3) issuance of H-4 nonimmigrant visas for accompanying or following spouse and children; (4) for U.S. worker protection; (5) for implementation of an alien employment management system; and (6) establishment of a Temporary Worker Task Force.

Expands the S-visa (witness/informant) classification.

Limits the L-visa (intracompany transfer) classification.

Fairness in Immigration Litigation Act of 2006 - Sets forth provisions respecting remedies for immigration legislation.

Sets forth backlog reduction provisions respecting: (1) family-sponsored and employment-based immigrant levels; (2) country limits; (3) immigrant visa allocations; (4) minor children; (5) shortage occupations; and (6) student and advanced degree visas.

Widows and Orphans Act of 2006 - Establishes a special immigrant category for certain children and women at risk of harm.

Immigrant Accountability Act of 2006 - Provides permanent resident status adjustment for a qualifying illegal alien (and the spouse and children of such alien) who has been in the United States for five years and employed (with exceptions) for specified periods of time.

Authorizes mandatory departure and immigrant or nonimmigrant reentry for a qualifying illegal alien who has been present and employed in the United States since January 7, 2004. Establishes a three-year mandatory departure status, and sets forth immigration prohibitions and penalties for failure to depart or delayed departure. Subjects the spouse or children of a principal alien to the same conditions as such alien, except that if such alien meets the departure requirement the spouse and children will be deemed to have done so.

Agricultural Job Opportunities, Benefits, and Security Act of 2006, or AgJOBS Act of 2006 - Establishes a pilot program (Blue Card program) for adjustment to permanent resident status of qualifying agricultural workers who have worked in the United States during the two-year period ending December 31, 2005, and have been employed for specified periods of time subsequent to enactment of this Act.

Revises the H-2A (temporary agricultural worker) program.

Development, Relief, and Education for Alien Minors Act of 2006 or the DREAM Act of 2006 - Eliminates denial of an unlawful alien's eligibility for higher education benefits based on state residence unless a U.S. national is similarly eligible without regard to such state residence. Authorizes cancellation of removal and adjustment to conditional permanent resident status of certain alien students who are long-term U.S. residents.

Sets forth provisions respecting: (1) additional Department of Homeland Security (DHS) and Department of Justice immigration personnel; and (2) the Board of Immigration Appeals.

Kendell Frederick Citizenship Assistance Act - Provides that fingerprints provided by a qualifying individual at the time of military enlistment shall satisfy naturalization fingerprint requirements. Requires the Secretary of Defense to establish the position of Citizenship Advocate at each military entry processing station.

State Court Interpreter Grant Program Act - Provides state courts grants to assist individuals with limited English proficiency to access and understand court proceedings, and allocates funds for a related court interpreter technical assistance program.

Border Infrastructure and Technology Modernization Act - Provides for: (1) a port of entry infrastructure assessment study; (2) a national land border security plan; and (3) a port of entry technology demonstration program.

September 11 Family Humanitarian Relief and Patriotism Act - Provides permanent resident status adjustment or cancellation of removal and permanent resident status adjustment for a qualifying alien who was on September 10, 2001, the wife, child, or dependent son or daughter of a lawful nonimmigrant alien who died as a result of the September 11, 2001, terrorist attacks against the United States.

Sets forth provisions respecting: (1) noncitizen Armed Forces membership; (2) nonimmigrant status for athletes; (3) extension of returning worker exemption; (4) surveillance programs, including aerial and unmanned aerial surveillance; (5) a Northern Border Prosecution Initiative; (6) reimbursement of Southern Border State and county prosecutors for prosecuting federally initiated drug cases; (7) conditional nonimmigrant worker-related grants; (8) border security on federal land; and (9) parole and status adjustment relief for qualifying widows and orphans.
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 11:38 PM
Response to Reply #20
30. I see H-1a and H-1c but not H-1b. I also see a limit to L Visas.
Why should a company hire this middle aged woman when they can hire a young Indian man fresh out of school with the latest and most popular skills. My skills were up to date five years ago... I can't afford to stop and go back to school every five years. Some of our more popular companies will teach the same classes in India for 1/10th the cost of the same training in the US.
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brokensymmetry Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 11:25 PM
Response to Original message
10. Wouldn't it be great if...
someone, somewhere would represent American workers?

If nothing else, just for the novelty.

(Sigh)
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-09-06 11:36 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. Soon
no one here will have jobs.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 12:38 AM
Response to Original message
12. So whats pretty obvious is that the Dems are for this bill
which is against the American worker... are they nuts???

and they are for 11 million ilegal immigrants

Incredible...

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high density Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:41 AM
Response to Reply #12
25. We don't need more H-1B visas
Edited on Sun Sep-10-06 10:42 AM by high density
We need our fucking corporations to hire American workers that are already in America waiting to get a job.

This is such a nasty piece of legislation to the American worker... I just can't believe it. Why did 90% of Dems vote for this piece of shit??
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OhioChick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:42 AM
Response to Reply #25
26. Hear, hear! n/t
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 01:48 AM
Response to Reply #25
36. AND we need to invest in educating our own kids here
We have millions of future doctors, nurses, engineers, inventors, etc. etc... It's time to tell the dimwitted wingnuts who want to stop teaching science and defund the schools to STICK A SOCK IN IT!! :grr:
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magellan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 12:59 AM
Response to Original message
13. Here's a link to the bill at Thomas.gov
Edited on Sun Sep-10-06 01:01 AM by magellan
Sorry, the Thomas.gov link is temporary and doesn't work. Here's another for the text of the bill:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=s109-2611

And here's the Wikipedia entry:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/S._2611

edited to fix link.
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w4rma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 01:04 AM
Response to Original message
14. This bill horrendous. It is bad in every way.
Edited on Sun Sep-10-06 01:16 AM by w4rma
The Republican leadership is strongly backing this bill and many "liberal" Democrats are also supporting this bill. They support education, unions and rasing the minimum wage, but then when a Democrat supports bringing in the cheap labor for buisnesses to break the back of all those things, they are shooting down their own beliefs.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:57 AM
Response to Reply #14
22. direct hit to the middle class
Edited on Sun Sep-10-06 09:58 AM by nashville_brook
lose the 80K a year as a DBA...

but on the bright side, you'll be making *50 cents* more an hour at Walmart.

(quit yer whinin")
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 02:03 AM
Response to Original message
15. and you want American children to get education and then
bring in foreign workers to take their jobs and lower their wages for what reason should they go to expensive American colleges when they could go to inexpensive overseas schools... and they obviously must be better than our colleges here because they prefer the foreign High tech students better
2 million is a ridiculous amount absolutely ridiculous!!!

I'm very upset at the Democrats on this Bill!!!
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cascadiance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 07:32 AM
Response to Original message
17. This is one big reason why there should be a THIRD Democratic alternative!
We don't need bills driven by xenophobia. We don't need bills that serve the corporatocracy. We need some bill that serves the workers, BOTH American and foreign. Get one that keeps American jobs for Americans and doesn't promote a "race to the bottom", treats others in our country sanely, penalizes "illegal employers" responsible for these problems heavily, and puts pressure on other countries to fix their economies so their workers don't have to come here to get the money to fuel their economoies.

Someone like Lamont should champion this to help split his opposition vote too, and by winning could help build some backing and leadership for such a bill going through the Senate in 2007.
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 09:53 AM
Response to Original message
21. IT work is how most of my friends entered the middle class
oh well.
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Morereason Donating Member (496 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:55 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. Me too...
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nashville_brook Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 04:17 PM
Response to Reply #29
38. welcome to DU, morereason -- and here's hoping
you remain right where you are in the middle class.

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Tierra_y_Libertad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
23. Sounds like a step in the right direction.
We have approximately 20 million "illegal" immigrants in this country. It sounds like a reasonable way to address the problem.
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antigop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 10:37 AM
Response to Original message
24. The Senate Dems sold out the American worker on the pension bill
Here is the roll call for the pension bill:
http://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_lists/roll_call_vote_cfm.cfm?congress=109&session=2&vote=00230

The Senate Dems sold out the American worker and allowed the legalization of cash balance pension plans.


So now the Senate Dems have made sure that workers pensions are reduced, and now with S2611, they can make sure that workers don't have good-paying jobs.

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cassiepriam Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:45 PM
Response to Original message
27. When the middle class is gone, who will pay taxes?
Who will they rob then?
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Morereason Donating Member (496 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
28. Depressing- They want to destroy any middle income field
Just when the IT field was starting to open up a bit again. This is entirely depressing. IT has been my way out of poverty and depression. Now I am making half of what I was making in 2000, in a job where I get abuse. But at least I could live on it.
I was planning on moving up. Better jobs have just started to appear in my area for the average IT worker. But in a year or two it will be back to fighting for scraps. What a load from our find representatives!
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welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Sep-10-06 11:46 PM
Response to Original message
31. "Can anyone clearly explain the Democrats' approach to helping workers?"
the responses were underwhelming to say the least ...

here's a link to the original thread: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=2812133
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Virginian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 01:30 AM
Response to Reply #31
35. I tried to read the bill. The link was posted above...
This part was under Title V to relieve the backlog of applications:

9 (b) EMPLOYMENT-BASED IMMIGRANTS.--Section
10 201(d) (8 U.S.C. 1151(d)) is amended to read as follows:
11 ``(d) WORLDWIDE LEVEL OF EMPLOYMENT-BASED
12 IMMIGRANTS.--
13 ``(1) IN GENERAL.--Subject to paragraph (2),
14 the worldwide level of employment-based immigrants
15 under this subsection for a fiscal year is equal to the
16 sum of--
17 ``(A)(i) 450,000, for each of the fiscal
18 years 2007 through 2016; or
19 ``(ii) 290,000, for fiscal year 2017 and
20 each subsequent fiscal year;
21 ``(B) the difference between the maximum
22 number of visas authorized to be issued under
23 this subsection during the previous fiscal year
24 and the number of visas issued during the pre-
25 vious fiscal year; and


S 2611 ES 367
1 ``(C) the difference between--
2 ``(i) the maximum number of visas au-
3 thorized to be issued under this subsection
4 during fiscal years 2001 through 2005 and
5 the number of visa numbers issued under
6 this subsection during those fiscal years;
7 and
8 ``(ii) the number of visas calculated
9 under clause (i) that were issued after fis-
10 cal year 2005.


I believe this covers ALL work visas. I don't know that it has been changed from the previous quota. I do know that the previous quota for the H-1b visas was split into six month segments so that all the visas wouldn't be handed out all at once, so I don't think there is a difference between those authorized and those issued.

Well, it looks like I will be competing with an additional half million incoming young IT workers for a job each year until I reach retirement age. Does anyone out there know what kind of non-IT job an aging, I mean experienced, IT worker could get. I am willing to take the jobs an Indian doesn't want.

In my past experience, about half of the H-1b workers I have known professionally have had a poor attitude toward their female peers. The longer these men stay in the American work force, the more likely they are to obtain managerial jobs.
I think I want to bring back a push for the Equal Rights Amendment. With the current influx of male supremacists at all income levels, I think I might need Constitutional protection for the rights I currently enjoy.
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Cobalt-60 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 01:19 AM
Response to Original message
32. It isn't a shortage of American It workers
It's a shortage of American IT workers willing to exchange our skilled labor for 9.00 an hour.
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mrreowwr_kittty Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 01:25 AM
Response to Reply #32
34. The ever expanding
List of "jobs that Americans won't do". First it was agriculture, construction, and service jobs. Next it will be manufacturing, engineering, nursing, etc...
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Prisoner_Number_Six Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 01:22 AM
Response to Original message
33. Good thing I started my own company
I'm doing just fine with my little one man computer repair gig- I have just enough work to keep me busy, and I don't have to hire a helper. And if I did, I'd be able to choose whome I wanted.

Fuck the Senate.
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Sep-11-06 01:58 AM
Response to Original message
37. If the Democrats are looking for the ilegals vote
they are very mistaken here... and if they are looking to lower the wages of the American Worker
they are supporting the bill that will do it... Why is the Democrats supporting the Iraq war when it comes to a vote for war and now support 2 million Visas for High tech workers

Do they want to get elected or they purposely out to lose so that George can have his Congress to destroy social security... If they think Americans are blind to this they would be very very wrong

The New Order is full of crap...they are asking for a revolution like Mexico if they keep this up...
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