Iran Contra revisited

[Mythsaje]

I was just listening to a rebroadcast of Thom Hartmann's latest show and he's talking about the whole issue surrounding the Iran Hostage situation and how it related to the Carter/Reagan Presidential campaign.

What's amazing to me is that I remember a story on NPR way back then suggesting that recently released KGB records indicated that Papa Bush met with Iranian representatives and made a deal to hold the hostages through the campaign season in order to help them win against Carter. Now a new book out documents ALL of this from someone who worked in the Reagan campaign and the transition team afterward.

This whole thing also dovetails into the Contra affair in that they used illegal sales of arms to Iran, in accordance with the deal they had made re: the hostages, to fund Contra activities. I just finished listening to Thom reading a list of names of all those involved who are now deceased, some under very suspicious circumstances.

I've known about all of this for years--since I was a teenager, in fact--and saw it all as a sign of things to come. Not that anyone listened to me back then.

These are some truly scary people. Had people sat up and paid real attention back then, we could've avoided some of this crap now.

Too bad no one did. They let it all slide until it was forgotten by most people. Ignored by the media, put on a back shelf by our "representatives" and left to die a lonely death.

But I never forgot. And I never will.

[DrDebug]

1. Poppy used the hostages to get his precious Vice Presidency

And that even meant giving more "spare parts" to the Iranians because the Ayatolah didn't really want to keep them that long.

One thing which is still unproven are the failed liberation attempts Carter made. The official stories are sandstorms, but there was nobody to see what really happened. So was it really freaky nature or did somebody tell the Iranians ahead of time that Carter was trying to get the hostages out and snitched. It is a possibility to consider... but that means there was a traitor...

[Mythsaje]

2. Word at the time

was that the choppers tried to land too close together and basically blew the mission. Always seemed a little weird to me.

[H2O Man]

6. The failure was

blamed on a couple of things, including the sandstorm, a shortage of helicopters, and the collision between a tanker aircraft and a helicopter.

[H2O Man]

4. Interesting thought.

I would suggest viewing it in a context that includes the events in Afghanistan in the same general period. Regarding the idea of a "traitor" (or more than one), I think that Larry Franklin's being sentenced late last week indicates there are more traitors in our federal government than many suspect.

[leveymg]

8. We never found "Mr. X" who was feeding Jonathan Pollard document numbers.

The real traitors are those who have been serving one or more foreign powers for reasons of ideology or just plain money and power. I put that label squarely on the Bush family, as well as on the neocons. The weird thing is the alliance between those who are agents of influence for the Saudis and those who serve the Israeli Rightwing. And, then there are Israeli ties to the Iranian mullahs. Is this a strategic partnership or merely a tactical one of convenience? They've certainly all been doing business since the Reagan-Bush Administration brought them together into the global anticommunist Jihad.

[blm]

15. The "global anti=communists" were hiding the REAL AGENDA - global fascism

.

[blm]

22. Of course there were traitors. These thugs have no sense of patriotism

unless the cameras are rolling and they're up for election. Then, no flag is safe from their slobber and drool.

[blm]

3. This is where I will come down against Clinton. He could have opened the

books on IranContra and BCCI when he took office in 1993 as Kerry wanted....instead, Clinton sided with Greenspan who told him that the revelations would adversely effect the world economy.

But, guess what, Bill......it may have taken the world economy a few years to get back on track back then, but, opening the books on BCCI also would have meant NO BUSH would ever be allowed even NEAR a White House office and no 9-11 or Iraq War would have happened, either.

The global fascist agenda would have been revealed back then, and the filthy, murderous tricks they utilize would have gotten the sunshine it deserved.

[H2O Man]

5. Very true.

Good point.

[Mythsaje]

7. And instead

it adversely affected the state of Democracy in the U.S.

Thanks, Bill...it's not as though some of your other decisions did a hell of a lot of good for our economy anyway.

[blm]

9. The economy would have suffered for a few years, but the whole world is

suffering now with Bush and his cronies. Even when we get rid of Bush it will take the rest of the century just to reverse the damage he's done in one decade.

[AntiFascist]

13. Clinton and his DLC support U.S. aggression in the Middle East...

and look upon the post 9-11 environment as a great opportunity. The "Third Way", with respect to foreign policy, is nothing more than an endorsement of PNAC.

[Emit]

10. And now many of the players from Iran Contra are baaaack

They're Baa-a-a-a-ck...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=66847

Also ties in with (among others):

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=364&topic_id=163776
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2046689#2048464

Also, I read The Secret Government by Bill Moyers this past summer, when I was looking into Michael Ledeen. It's a quick read. And I think you can get the PBS Frontline version of the movie on line. Amazing how many Iran Contra guys are back now.

[blm]

11. Kerry spent so many years unraveling the IranContra and BCCI crimes and

it took Clinton ONE DAY to close the books on the documents that needed to be seen by the public, giving the BFEE plenty of time so it could regroup.

[Emit]

12. OK. Now I'm curious...

I knew about Kerry and the BCCI thing, but I was unaware of Clinton closing the books on the docs. I learn something new every time I come on DU.

[blm]

14. It's said that Clinton was open to releasing the documents till Greenspan

got hold of him and threatened the demise of the world economy.

[JHB]

19. That's not how I remember it...

In fact, the early Clinton administration supported an argument by the ourgoing Reagan/Bush people that their WH system e-mails were not historical documents to be preserved in the manner of paper reports and memos. It took a (fortunately succesful) lawsuit to prevent those records from being deleted wholesale.

In the words of a Clinton official asked about pursuing Bush investigations, "that's not on our radar screens".

[blm]

20. So, maybe the other word was put out by Clintonites to deflect blame?

Great. And all this time I just believed he was being naive at that point.

[TayTay]

16. The final report on this is online

http://www.fas.org/irp/congress/1992_rpt/bcci/

The last page of this report, written in 1992, is chilling. They offer us a list of what did NOT get investigated due to, basically, stonewalling on the part of foreign governments and financial institutions. For Example:

20. Money laundering by other major international banks. Numerous BCCI officials told the Subcommittee that BCCI's money laundering was no different from activities they observed at other international banks, and provided the names of a number of prominent U.S. and European banks which they alleged engaged in money laundering. There is no question that BCCI's laundering of drug money, while pervading the institution, constituted a small component of the total money laundering taking place in international banking. Further investigation to determine which international banks are soliciting and handling drug money should be undertaken.


I am very worried about this type of thing now with regards to the drug money coming out of Afghanistan. The recent book by James Risen, State of War that talked about the NSA wiretapping also had a chapter on the disaster happening in Afghanistan. That country is now the world's biggest supplier of drugs, particularly heroin, to the world. (The place is basically a narco-state, run on drug money and the influence of the drug warlords.)

The book states that after the US invasion of Afghanistan, the Brits begged the US to spray the poppy fields and wipe out the crop. The US refused. Risen relates the story of the Afghan who was contracted by the US to go up into the mountains and get Osama bin Laden for us. He, as everyone now knows, double-crossed the US and let bin Laden escape. Why wasn't he punished for this by the US? Because he is a major drug warlord and they can't go in and get him. He is too powerful. Risen strongly suggests that the US is either looking the other way on Afghan drug peddling or is actively helping this, in a devil's bargain because it 'keeps the peace' in Afghanistan. (So much of the country's economy is now dependent on drug money that if the poppy fields went away and the distribution stopped, there would be riots and Karzai would be deposed in a coup by the warlords. The US can't have that, so we look the other way. We don't have the troops to really stop this trade, they are in the misbegotten debacle in Iraq.) What a friggin screw-up. Worse, there is evidence that the drug money is going back to support Islamic extremist groups who are using that money to buy arms and munitions to kill Americans in Iraq. (Just when I thought I couldn't hate this Admin any more, you read stuff like this and get angry all over again. Sigh!)

So, which world financial institutions are moving that Afghan drug money around?

[Monkey see Monkey Do]

17. See also the A Q Khan network & the so-called "Islamic bomb"

1. The extent of BCCI's involvement in Pakistan's nuclear program. As set forth in the chapter on BCCI in foreign countries, there is good reason to conclude that BCCI did finance Pakistan's nuclear program through the BCCI Foundation in Pakistan, as well as through BCCI-Canada in the Parvez case. However, details on BCCI's involvement remain unavailable. Further investigation is needed to understand the extent to which BCCI and Pakistan were able to evade U.S. and international nuclear non-proliferation regimes to acquire nuclear technologies.

(Joeseph Trento's last book "Prelude to Terror" looks at this a little bit.)

[blm]

18. And that is EXACTLY the info that BushInc is protecting so FIERCELY and

naive Clinton allowed to stay hidden.

[leveymg]

24. Joe Trento says BCCI was a near exact template for the 9/11 moneymen

It also gives us the primary reason why the investigation of terrorist finance hasn't been pursued since.

[blm]

25. Because ALL ROADS lead to House of Bush and House of Saud manipulating

and enabling the terror threats all over the world.

War profiteers found their vehicle of choice - and it's so damn easy now that they control most broadcast media.

[blm]

21. Tay, this should be a separate thread. Your point is just too darn good to

miss and needs to be seen.

[phoebe]

23. just posted on the National Endowment for Democracy in GD

NED was the brainchild of Reagan and has direct bearing on this discussion..