Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience.

[Clara T]

Historian Howard Zinn’s words make more sense to me each day this war continues:

"Civil disobedience is not our problem. Our problem is civil obedience. Our problem is that people all over the world have obeyed the dictates of the leaders of their government and have gone to war, and millions have been killed because of this obedience...Our problem is that people are obedient all over the world in the face of poverty and starvation and stupidity, and war, and cruelty. Our problem is that people are obedient while the jails are full of petty thieves, and all the while the grand thieves are running the country. That's our problem."

[undergroundpanther]

1. The stanford experiment lives

In the loyal to symbolic authority heart.
http://www.prisonexp.org/
http://www.stanford.edu/dept/news/relaged/970108prisonexp.html
http://www.vaniercollege.qc.ca/Auxiliary/Psychology/Frank/Thirdwave.html

Disobey and find freedom from authoritarianism.
http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/1931/secAcon.html


Authoritarianism,sociopaths,bullies all rely on obedience to feel power.
Do not give your power and inner locus of control to charismatic social predators and parasites,the "authorities" and"power that be".Never trust and rely upon any hand that feeds you.Be aware you may have to bite it off someday. The founding Fathers of America knew of this issue personally.They wrote rebellion from tyranny into our founding documents.

[TahitiNut]

6. The Milgram Experiments, too.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milgram_experiment
http://www.new-life.net/milgram.htm
http://www.stanleymilgram.com/milgram.php
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20020301-000037.html

[readmoreoften]

2. We have to learn to be uncomfortable.

Challenging power means that we will personally lose something. It means that you will become uncomfortable-- physically and mentally. You may lose standing, you may lose income, you may lose prestige. You will lose a lot of time.

I'm concerned that people aren't willing to be uncomfortable. Or maybe that we're afraid of retaliation because we know what kind of country we live in these days.

[f-bush]

3. Good Post

one of the big things that kept the little "hitler wannabes" at bay in the nixon administration was the fact that the antiauthorianists kept this country on a powder keg!

[Dover]

4. Exactly. Have you read this post in GDPolitics yet?

...and my comments on the deeper implications of Gore's speech also >

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x2385236

An excerpt from the article:

What does Gore think should be done about this mess?

"A special counsel should immediately be appointed by the Attorney General to remedy the obvious conflict of interest that prevents him from investigating what many believe are serious violations of law by the President. We have had a fresh demonstration of how an independent investigation by a special counsel with integrity can rebuild confidence in our system of justice. Patrick Fitzgerald has, by all accounts, shown neither fear nor favor in pursuing allegations that the Executive Branch has violated other laws."

OK. I'll go for that. If neither the judges nor lawmakers will do their job, then give the special counsel a chance to do their job for these cowards. So, the Republic rests in the hands of special counsel. But the cringing legislature and judiciary are unlikely to demand the appointment of a special counsel to investigate and prosecute "serious violations" of the law. The Attorney General Albert Gonzales has the authority to appoint a special counsel. But Gonzales is the architect of the pro-torture policy of the Bush regime, so it is unlikely that he will see anything wrong with "serious violations" of the law.

It will take a powerful mass movement to push Gonzales to make the appointment. But will the I-don't-care-about-politics citizenry rise up against this vicious and dangerous regime in Washington?

The US people and the people of the whole world owe Albert Gore Jr. a lot. He brilliantly and boldly defended US democracy and US honor that been horribly violated by the Bush and his GOPs, both domestically and internationally. We can hope that other leaders of the Republic will find the guts to join Gore. Senator Robert C. Byrd of West Virginia, a leading authority of the US Constitution, arrived at Gore's conclusions sometime in 2003. It's lamentable that the "physical therapist" and glamorous senator from New York who frequents the White House so much is too gutless to take a stand for democratic principles.

The gist of Gore's historic speech is that Bush does not respect the rule of law and Bush is unaccountable to the US people because he keeps the people uninformed with a current of lies or by hiding information about what he's doing. And Bush is also unaccountable, Gore argues, under the doctrine of the separation of powers and of checks and balances because he dominates the GOP weaklings and hacks at the top of judicial and legislative branches of the government.

If the four fundamental principles of democracy are sovereignty, the electoral principle, accountability, and the rule of law, then the Bush breaches all of them. In other words, democracy seems to be a form of state in which supreme power resides in the body of citizens entitled to vote, citizens elect their representatives who exercise power, these representatives are accountable to the citizens, and the representative exercise power in accordance with the rule of law.

Again, Gore concentrates mainly on Bush's violations with regard to accountability and the rule of law.

But Gore knows … better than anybody else in the world … that Bush has violated the electoral principle of democracy. Gore deliberately remained silent about Bush's 2000 and 2004 infringements of the electoral principle.

Perhaps he believes that if he included the electoral violations of democracy, people would think his speech was the crying by poor "loser."
Clearly, Gore sees that the unconstitutional surveillance of the US people by the GOP dictatorship over the United States is an attack on the sovereignty principle, that is, supreme power resides in the body of citizens entitled to vote.

[Media_Lies_Daily]

5. Until we have a nationwide strike, the Lower 99% will NEVER be heard.

[NMMNG]

8. "If there is hope, it lies in the proles.

If they could become conscious of their own strength, they would have no need to conspire."

'Winston Smith', 1984

[bigtree]

7. we have faith in our leaders

or is it apathy?

[Solly Mack]

9. We were discussing this kind of thing the other day

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=191556&mesg_id=191971

Love Zinn!!! He's 100 and 10 % correct.

[Clara T]

10. kick