So the pope has now apologized....

[Fountain79]

again I can't help but wonder has there ever been a major muslim leader who has apologized for his remarks that some found offensive?

[undeterred]

1. I think the pope should step down

Yeah, right.

[Fountain79]

2. I don't think so....n/t

[leftchick]

52. He should indeed

He is despicable and as a Catholic he does NOT speak for me. :puke:

[Jed Dilligan]

3. There's no Muslim religious hierarchy

Search high and low, you'll find no Muslim equivalent for the Pope.

[ShortnFiery]

4. Oh cut it out! He placed their #1 Prophet Mohammad and nasty

actions into the same sentence.

This INSENSITIVE if not INSULT IVE statement was from The Pope!

Whomever advised him to quote that ONE passage should have been demoted.

He should have apologized earlier, but this will do.

I hope and pray this will quiet the unrest.

And you know what? = I'm a practicing (Liberal) Catholic. ;)

[Igel]

38. I have it from good sources that

the mufti in Mecca said that Jesus never died, wasn't God's son, and that Christians wilfully corrupted the text of their Book. And that when he returns he'll take his place in a mosque, whoever the local imam is.

Mufti didn't create an outrage; there's no insult to Isa there. Nobody asked that he step down, even though he basically dissed every variety of Christian as a false religion.

Actually, such statements aren't unusual. And yet to say Muhammed wasn't Allah's prophet is blasphemy.

Perhaps if you're Muslim it is. They can say what they want about my God, and I'm expected to not care. Somebody says something nasty about Muhammed, and Muslims predictably go apeshit. We *expect* and *justify* their bad behavior, basically saying they can do whatever we want and we must be honored to kiss their asses? Because they're superior, and can act inferior? Because they're inferior, and as Americans we have to be paternalistic? Because they were victims at some point, and so we must forgive the little dears, they can't help it?

Sorry. I have some self respect, and treat them like adults. They act like spoiled, oversensitive whiners that like to act out a bit much, I call them spoiled, oversensitive whiners that like to act out a bit much.

[ShortnFiery]

43. I feel sad for your noted prejudice...If a person uses the term "whiners"

I tend to immediately tune out.

What truly matters is that we, The Americans, stop considering ourselves as *the center of the f**king universe* ... there are many respectable Muslim People who have taken offense.

Dismissing people by calling them "whiners" accomplishes nothing but PROMOTE increased prejudice and bigotry between religions.

No, I won't go there. :(

[Ms. Clio]

63. really not even trying to hide that "noted prejudice" anymore

just dresses it up with a lot of pseudo-intellectualism.

[Wickerman]

5. Which remarks do you refer to?

Give a specific example then we can research it and not have to wonder.

Has he stopped beating his dog yet?

[BlooInBloo]

13. Cha. Everyone knows that SOME MUSLIMS....

... are very mean and hate America...

:rofl:

[me b zola]

6. No he hasn't

The pope apologized for people being offended at his remarks. Kind of like "I'm sorry that you didn't like it when I slapped you".

[ShortnFiery]

8. Nope "Saint" he, this morning, FULLY apologized for the entire remark

As he should.

The last thing we need is a Holy War stoked by The Vatican. :(

Please don't go "Ugly American" Glenn Beck on me. :hi:

[me b zola]

20. Uh-oh

I'm not sure what "ugly American" or glenn beck has to do with me. :scratches head:

Well, here's the possibilities: One of us has mis-heard or mis-read the news (not me :hi: ), or we both heard/read correctly and there are conflicting reports out there.

I heard msnbc report that the pope apologized if people were offended by his remarks. Just now CNN has just repeated it. The reporter ended the segment by saying that even though the pope is done with this issue, it may not be over. Then the "faith & values" reporter said that maybe that is how the pope may want it--meaning for the controversy to continue.

Geez, is the pope on the payroll of the gop?

[ShortnFiery]

29. OK, watch one episode of Glenn Beck, then you will understand

one point. :idea: I just know he's going to get all "puffy and pompous" about how The MUSLIMS should not be so touchy.

Secondly, I was only teasing you with "Saint" address, i.e., your avatar is for The NO Saints. ;) So please don't take that as an affront since my husband was born and raised there - I love the NO Saints.

Third, Yahoo is quit reliable and I've heard via CNN also that The Pope offered a FULL APOLOGY.

As he should.

No disrespect intended ... just verbal hi-jinx ;)

[me b zola]

37. Whew, it's all good

So it looks like the answer is that the media is putting out conflicting reports, which will only inflame the matter further--of course, though, not between us :toast:


And as a sidebar, I'm not from NO, nor have I ever lived there. My avatar is a reminder that I saw what the rethug American government did to American citizens on American soil--I will never forget. :grr: :cry:

[ShortnFiery]

58. Thanks for clarifying ...

We're Cool. :toast: I always find myself cheering for "The Saints" (NFL Football) team and thought I found another mega-optimist. :blush: :hi:

[AusTexDem]

53. I can't find a full apology. do you have a link to it? here is what I find

"I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims,"

"These in fact were a quotation from a medieval text, which do not in any way express my personal thought."

"I hope this serves to appease hearts and to clarify the true meaning of my address, which in its totality was and is an invitation to frank and sincere dialog, with mutual respect."

here is the quote:

"Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached."

http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data/theworld/2006/September/theworld_September522.xml§ion=theworld

Full text of Vatican statement on pope’s speech
http://www.khaleejtimes.com/DisplayArticleNew.asp?xfile=data/theworld/2006/September/theworld_September522.xml§ion=theworld

[AX10]

7. The Islamic community comes out in a huge outrage anytime...

there is the slightest implication of criticism of their religion. However, whenever Muslims act aggressively, there is a deafening silence from the Islamic community. Remember when the Taliban (they are Muslims) demolished the Buddhist statues in Afghanistan? Where was their outrage then? :wtf:?

[ShortnFiery]

10. No, The Pope equated their Prophet with EVIL DEEDS!

We are not talking cartoons here and The Leader of The Catholic Church should be more cautious. :grr:

[The Straight Story]

60. Well, people here say the same about christians all the time

and no one cares if DUers get offended. Why should he care?

[Robbien]

9. There have been many statements in the Muslim press saying sorry

A radical Muslim makes a radical statement and that hits the US corporate media. But when Muslim people speak out against those statements and say they don't agree and are embarrassed about the statements, the US corporate media ignores them.

[Fountain79]

11. Did that radical muslim himself recant his comment n/t

[Robbien]

15. Does crazy old Falwell or Robertson ever say they are sorry?

Falwell or Robertson are not the head of the Christian religion.

The crazy old radical Muslim is not the head of the Islam religion.

[Igel]

41. The Pope is not the head of the Christian religion.

Hasn't been for a few hundred years now. Perhaps you heard of Martin Luther? Jan Hus?

[CBGLuthier]

12. And your point is?

Why must the standard always be what the "other side" does?

That argument is used to justify torture, you know.

The, they are worse, or they did it first argument is what one would expect from a little child.

Not reasoning and compassionate adults.

[beam me up scottie]

14. Why does that matter?

He fucked up big time, he should have apologized much sooner, or, even better, not said it in the first place.

Whether the muslims do or don't apologize for their remarks is irrelevant.

[Fountain79]

18. Of course it shouldn't....

because muslims obviously can't think like we do and can't possibly understand when they have made remarks that others would find insensitive.:sarcasm:

[beam me up scottie]

21. But Mommy, HE started it!

How can I argue when you use brilliant logic like that?

I bow to your obviously superior reasoning, Captain Obvious.

:rofl:

[Fountain79]

28. Yeah you have no argument I agree.... n/t

[beam me up scottie]

32. Wow, what a witty comeback.

I'm humbled, really.

:rofl:

[TlalocW]

16. The Pope, whoever is considered the Muslim equivalent

And whoever is considered the equivalent in their religion from around the world (and I say for America we send Jerry Falwell or Pat Robertson) should just have a WWE-style King of the Ring elimination brawl and get it all out of their systems. I'm sure a Buddhist or Quaker will be the first eliminated, but after that, it's on, baby!

TlalocW

[beam me up scottie]

19. Oh, Pat would win, no question.

He did leg press 2000 lbs. after all.

I think the Pope would be eliminated first, I've tried wrestling in a dress and it really gets in the way.

[135th]

34. Agreed, the Pope would go down to a Judo throw in that thing.

Yes, his comments were poorly thought. Even so, the killing and rioting leaves him seeming kind of justified.

[beam me up scottie]

35. "the killing and rioting leaves him seeming kind of justified." ?

Since when is bigotry "kind of justified"?

[Igel]

44. "Your prophet authorized violence."

"No! He didn't! And because you said that, we have an obligation to go on jihad!"

The bigotry is on both sides; some of the offense was over a statement that they've shown to be just. But the bigotry and offence on the Muslim side is routinely denied by all sides, to keep the bloodshed to a minimum.

[beam me up scottie]

49. Why again is the Pope's bigotry justified?

Help me out here, I must have missed the reason the first time around.

[135th]

50. Exactly

Insulting Islam wasn't the most papal thing to do (or was, depending on how much papal history one is willing to ignore) but killing and rioting is worse. It gives the Pope's comments an bitter ironic twist.

[beam me up scottie]

56. So you are saying his bigotry is justified.

Give me specifics, is only religious bigotry acceptable, or is racism okay too?

How about misogyny?

Homophobia?

[135th]

64. I haven't heard his exact comments,

though my likely answer is no, it is not. It's just that killing someone ranks higher on my scale of bad things people do then bigoted comments. Either way, it is petty ironic that the reaction to the Pope criticizing Muslims for killing for their faith was that some Muslims killed a nun.

[Bucky]

17. I have a creepy question. Did the murder of that nun convinced him to?

The pope leads a safe life. I'm sure he can shrug off a few effigies of himself getting torched in Islamabad and Ankara. But when that nun and her bodyguard were murdered yesterday, the Pope was said to be horrified that his words led some sick someone to murder an innocent woman on her way home from her hospital.

Did Benedict apologize only because killers were threatening his flock?

[Monkeyman]

22. The Pope's Death has been called for by Five Muslim Clerics

[Fountain79]

25. Waiting for the extreme-muslim apologists reply...n/t

[beam me up scottie]

33. I'm still waiting for your point.

Please explain why the muslims should have to apologize because the Pope fucked up.

[beam me up scottie]

30. Pat Robertson called for the assassination of President Hugo Chavez.

Oops, I forgot, he apologized for it, so that makes it just ducky.

We could go on like this all day but what's the point?

[6000eliot]

23. Because tit-for-tat is what Christianity is all about, after all.

[beam me up scottie]

24. !

:evilgrin:

[ShortnFiery]

39. I love it! It's very true of all RADICAL factions of any religion.

Traditional Christianity focuses on a HARSH GOD, SUFFERING and DOING PENANCE.

No, OUR Christianity is no less *abused* by radicals as Their Muslim Religion.

The Pope seriously needs to back away ... I doubt he will go to Turkey. WE and Americans should not mix up WAR with Religion. Not in any way.

Believe it or not, the reason many Muslims hate us is NOT due to Our Religion but Simply because we OCCUPY what is supposed to be a sovereign M.E. Country.

Especially those of us who believe in the separation of Church and State (for our Country) should back away from turning this into A Holy War. :scared:

[Fountain79]

26. explain please...n/t

[beam me up scottie]

36. You have to be on the receiving end of "christian" goodwill to understand.

The pink triangle is a clue, keep working at it, Sherlock.

[stepnw1f]

27. Does It Matter if One Did

The Pope did the right thing by apologizing period.

[Karenina]

42. REALLY.

Nobody needed THAT shitstorm.

[ShortnFiery]

51. Yes, forget about the FACT that "an apology" would be the exact

thing Jesus would do. Without a doubt! :-)

No one, neither Christian nor Muslim should JUDGE "the other" harshly.

When we as Christian Americans play into this prejudice of what we honestly don't fully understand, we are contributing to the fruition of A Holy War.

The last thing I want for my children is to launch A Holy War with The Arab World. :( :grr:

[Karenina]

59. I live in a Catholic town

with a LARGE population of Muslims from EVERYWHERE. We DO NOT NEED THIS SHIT. With the "apology" cooler heads will prevail.

[ShortnFiery]

61. Nobody needs what you term "This Sh*t" - that's why The Pope

rightly apologized. I don't live in "A Catholic Town" for The South leans Protestant, mostly Baptist around these parts. However, I'm a practicing Catholic, does that count?

Nobody needs "trouble" but when you mis-speak, the sooner you apologize, the sooner we can move on to efforts toward PEACE.

[Igel]

46. I think he did the right thing, in a narrow sense.

It saves lives. But at the expense of the truth, one that Muslims are in deep--and deepening--denial of. Were they to face the horrible bits of their past, they might overcome some of the nastiest tendencies in some of their communities. Instead, when the truth is said--for many Muslims, Muhammed is a preacher of hate--they take offence, and they're told that the violence and hurt they did was just and good and loving, not violence or hurtful at all.

Sad, really, when we encourage people in their fantasies for our own benefit. Usually ends badly, both for them and for us.

[ShortnFiery]

48. Yeah, and abetting the Nazis and a little thing called "The Inquisition"

were small genocides that us PURE Catholics can just sweep under the rug. That we NOW have the ABSOLUTE moral authority to preach to other faiths?

I think not! :thumbsdown:

[beam me up scottie]

54. How dare you air the christians' dirty laundry!

Bad poster, bad! :spank:

[ShortnFiery]

55. Sorry, Mel Brooks made me do it!

"The Inquisition, What a Show!" :blush:

[beam me up scottie]

57. I LOVE that skit!

Leave it to Mel Brooks to make the inquisition funny.

Well, Monty Python does a good job of it too, actually.

[bluerum]

31. Lets play "rope a pope!"

[CarlVK]

40. The Pope has NOT apologized.

Read his "apologia" carefully. He is sorry that some were offended by his remarks. That is NOT an apology. That is a sneaky way of placing blame back on the victims.

And don't think that I haven't noticed your little hairpin turn to divert attention from his comments, on to Muslim leaders.

[ShortnFiery]

47. Yes it is an APOLOGY via the following statement!

However, those who wish to promote a HOLY WAR will twist it as less than that! :(

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/5353774.stm

snip

"At this time, I wish also to add that I am deeply sorry for the reactions in some countries to a few passages of my address at the University of Regensburg, which were considered offensive to the sensibility of Muslims.

These in fact were a quotation from a medieval text, which do not in any way express my personal thought."

/snip

It doesn't get any better than that!

I quote again from the ORIGINAL TEXT, "These in fact were a quotation from a medieval text, which do not in any way express my personal thought."

[lonestarnot]

45. Did he have to give back the money too?

[Ms. Clio]

62. again I can't help but wonder what this idiotic comment possibly means?

Since there are 2 billion Muslims in dozens of countries and there is no Muslim equivalent to the Pope. But don't let that stop you from indulging your notable passion for gratuitous Muslim bashing.