Which is more evil, Islam or the Pope?

[135th]

Since Muslim reaction to the Popes remarks is todays hot topic, lets have it out in a thread that goes right to the heart of the issue. No more skirting the real question here, this thread will go straight for the jugular.

Which one is more evil, Pope Benedict XVI or the Islamic faith?

Here is the rundown on the competitors:

Good Side:
Pope: Called for dialoge and reconciliation between faiths, wants us to be in love when we have sex, was only "sort of" a Nazi.
Islam: Was really tolerant 1000 years ago, apparently not all of "them" hate us, George W. Bush says it's all about peace.

Bad Side:
Pope: Not very good at calling for dialoge and reconciliation between faiths, was sort of a Nazi.
Islam: Is really intollerant 1000 years past 1000 years ago, apparently it's hard to find the ones who don't hate us.

If any mods can edit this to add a poll, it would be much appreciated!

OK, lets get serious. Although I see a handful of good responses to the aprox. 2,751 Pope threads, almost all of them are entirely missing what I see as the obvious point:

People should be held accountable for their own actions, not the actions of others.

The Pope made a poorly thought out remark. Criticize him for it! Some Muslim clerics made a lot of poorly thought out remarks. Criticize them for it! Some fanatics murdered a nun and burned churches. Definitely criticize them for it! Do not criticize the Pope for the actions of fanatics. He did not burn churches, and he did not commit murder. Likewise, do not criticize all Muslims for the actions of the radical element of their faith. They committed no violence and hold no blame.

All though these views are reflected in every post on this subject, too many seem to think that they are mutually exclusive. That is not true! Denouncing intolerance does not require rationalizing violence, and criticizing violence does not require defending intolerance.

[Fire Walk With Me]

1. Power-grabbing extremists on either side are the problem.

And the rest of us are the ones who suffer. Nice system.

[QuestionAll...]

3. agreed. the system works us.

but we are all the same.
yet so ignorantly malleable to so easily work for the 1%'ers.

[Fire Walk With Me]

4. Are you saying that we could have a country for, of, and by the people

instead of the 1%ers?

[QuestionAll...]

13. I don't know shit.

but I smell the big stink, and it's just not right for a long time.
Especially the last 6 years.

Yes, hopefully, maybe, somewhere along the line the people will uphold - the ordinaryess of us all.
big dark coming, but also big light.

[CarlVK]

2. What's evil are irresponsible world "leaders" who incite violence

Ratzy, are you listening?

[Fire Walk With Me]

5. People won't simply give them the power they crave unless there is war

and boogeymen to scare us into giving up our freedoms so that we'll be safe.

[MrModerate]

6. I could tell this guy was going to be Pope Putz the First . . .

When they announced his selection. Another case of an anti-diplomatic zealot in a senior leadership position.

[rodeodance]

7. What a silly binary question! --reminds me of WH mentality.

Which is more evil, Islam or the Pope?

[135th]

10. And yet...

...it seems to be what half the baord is discussing, even if they are not willing to be quite so blunt. My point is they both deserve criticism. There is no reason to chose a side, as many people are doing.

[gully]

8. How bout neither?

People who murder others in the name of their god are evil, regardless which religious banner they adhere to.

[Hatalles]

9. The answer is neither.

I cannot stand this good/evil black/white BS.

[genie_weenie]

11. As you say Judge each man by his actions.

Individual Muslims, just like individual Anarchists, Christians, Buddhists, Democrats, Radicals must be judged by what they do and not what they believe.

Of course we wouldn't be having this discussion if the Quote of the 3rd to last Byzantine Emperor was uttered by a Joe Ratzinger of Billings, Montana instead of the Pope.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

12. I Was Justttttttt About To Say Fuck You Freeper. But Then I Read The

actual message. Good job and very well said. Sorry for the 5 seconds of illegitimate and ignorantly assumptive impulse judgement I cast upon you mentally prior to getting past the third line. :)

And though it's a month late, Welcome to DU!

[omega minimo]

18. HOLD THE ANCHOVIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

19. What Is Your Malfunction?

[omega minimo]

14. HOLD THE ANCHOVIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Swamp Rat]

17. But I like anchovies!

Though, crawfish would be a GREAT compromise. :9

[omega minimo]

24. Somethin fishy heah

But dem crawfish look like big bugs wit eyeballs n stuff!! :wow: :hide:



:hi:

[Swamp Rat]

25. OMG! Are you watching the Daily Show???

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[omega minimo]

33. NO! What?!!

Here you might like this http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2159796

[Warren DeMontague]

29. Are you suggesting Frozen Pizza?

Hmmm. It is late. But it does sound tasty.

[me b zola]

15. Jesus! Enough of the holy wars already

editing to clarify---I'm not saying that Jesus is the answer to your question.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. Did You Even Bother To Read The OP?

If you had, you should've realized that the poster isn't calling for one nor condoning one. It was quite the opposite. He was saying there shouldn't be one at all, and that each violator should be judged on their own merits, not a wholesale scale.

[pooja]

16. Pope... the symbolism of the robes should tell you anything at

all about satanists. Lighter colored for the high priests and then decending to the credence around them. If Jesus was here, he would smite the Catholic church... Now, I am not saying that general people who are Catholics are satanists. They are just caught up in the b.s. Follow the money. The same people who own our Fed. Reserve, own the papal finances..

[mmonk]

20. Thought I would take a peak.

Not quite as bad as I thought. Carry on and post responsibly.

[sweetheart]

22. islam evil or the pope

give that dope a lenghty rope
'tis lame that silly trollish slope,
he's got the mental misantrope,
war makes a shorter looking pope.

[Synnical]

23. Oh, can't we bring atheists into this discussion?

:puffpiece:

[NuttyFluffers]

26. funny topic! 1 part call for sanity, 1 part outrageous dark humor!

let's see how many people won't get it because reading more than 3 paragraphs is too hard...

:D

[Mz Pip]

27. One guy vs. a billion people

kind of a pointless comparison.

Pope: Kinda blew it with his remarks.

Islam: Probably 98% of them didn''t bother to call to call for his death.

Is that a draw?

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Warren DeMontague]

28. Wait. You're saying the Pope's attitudes on sex are a strong suit?

You've gotta be kidding me. Why doesn't he start with pedophile priests instead of telling consenting adults what birth control (not) to use, who to screw, or what else they're permitted to do with their genitalia. Give me a fucking BREAK.

Beyond that, your question is like comparing Babe Ruth to the Gross National Product. The Pope is one guy. Frankly, I think whatever peculiarities of the wiring of the human primate brain that causes religious fundamentalists to want -scratch that, need- to impose their personal belief systems into other peoples lives and enshrine them in goverment and law is the real problem, here.

And in that, the Pope is clearly guilty- as is "Islam".

[pooja]

30. Who all Catholics swear fidelity to. He is not just one guy.

[Warren DeMontague]

31. Well, if Catholic use of birth control is any indication

that "swearing of fidelity" doesn't always carry a ton of weight.

And I suppose we're supposed to believe none of 'em masturbate, too!

[saltpoint]

32. Is your question aimed at deciding a polarity? I ask because there

have been Muslims and there have been Catholics for many centuries before this week.

This one Pope follows many. The millions who follow both traditions are in the millions.

I'd be more interested in focusing on how Catholics, Muslims, and other groups and faiths fit into the world picture now, having followed centuries of others.

Would deciding which of two arbitrary traditions is most "evil" not play to the small minorities in both Islam and Christianity who are on the hateful fringes? The hatefulness exhibited by Fred Phelps, for instance, is technically Christian; he says it is, anyway. But overwhelmingly, Christians do not behave like Fred Phelps.

IMO, the overwhelming majority of anonymous, dedicated practitioners of both traditions obviates your question at the end. Not the content or direction it takes, but the act of asking it. Self-responsibility is also a self-contradiction at some levels of both those major world faiths, is what I'm getting at.

[Moderator]

34. Locking

Flamebait/broad-brush