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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:10 AM
Original message
Many detainee killings had nothing at all to do with getting information
Edited on Tue Sep-19-06 08:12 AM by bigtree
September 19, 2006


Accounts of other killings of prisoners in U.S. military custody which involved interrogations do not indicate that there's some treasure trove of 'valuable' information that may have been gleaned from their torture. Blunt-force trauma, exposure, depravation of sleep and other essentials, and outright shootings were contributing factors in many of the deaths in custody. These are only the ones that have been acknowledged by the military. It would be ridiculously naive to assume that these are isolated cases.

U.S. detentions by the numbers: (http://www.registerbee.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=DRB/MGArticle/DRB_BasicArticle&c=MGArticle&cid=1149190697463)


Numbers of Detainees-

Iraq (Camp Bucca, Camp Cropper, Fort Suse) - 13,390
Afghanistan (Bagram air base) - Estimated 500
Guantanamo Bay - 455

Nationalities-

Iraq - U.S. command last year counted 325 “foreign fighters” but overwhelming majority Iraqi.
Afghanistan - Afghans, Arabs, central Asians, possibly others.
Guantanamo Bay - 48 nationalities (past and present), vast majority from Afghanistan, Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Pakistan, Algeria, China, Morocco, Kuwait, Tajikistan and Tunisia.

Detainee Abuse-

Allegations - About 800 investigations of alleged mistreatment in Iraq and Afghanistan.
Punished - More than 250 service personnel punished, many via loss of rank or pay, or discharge from service.
Courts-Martial - At least 103
Convictions - 89 service members convicted; 19 sentences of one year or more.

Detainee deaths-

Total Deaths - At least 98 in Iraq, Afghanistan, Guantanamo, as of February.
Homicides - At least 34.
Unknown/Undetermined Causes - At least 48.


From Amnesty International: (http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR510632005)


Appendix 1: Some deaths in US custody in Afghanistan and Iraq

Detainee Date of death Location Notes(540)

Mohammad Sayari 28 August 2002 Near Lwara, Afghanistan The detainee was shot repeatedly by soldiers when, they alleged, he lunged towards a weapon. However, army investigators found that there was probable cause to believe that five soldiers had been involved in a murder, and recommended their prosecution for conspiracy, murder, dereliction of duty and obstruction of justice. Commanders decided to take no action, however, on the grounds of insufficient evidence. A soldier received a letter of reprimand.

Name unknown November 2002 Kabul, Afghanistan An unidentified Afghan detainee died, reportedly of hypothermia, in a secret CIA facility, after being stripped, assaulted and left in cell overnight without blankets. The case is reported to be under investigation by CIA Inspector General. No charges yet filed.

Mullah Habibullah 4 December 2002 Bagram, Afghanistan The autopsy revealed that the detainee had suffered blunt force trauma. Army investigators closed the investigation into the death in October 2004, recommending prosecution of 11 military police (MP) officers and four military intelligence (MI) officers for assault (see also case of Dilawar, below).

Dilawar 10 December 2002 Bagram, Afghanistan The autopsy revealed that the detainee had suffered blunt force trauma. Army investigators closed the investigation into the death in October 2004, recommending prosecution of 20 MPs and seven MI officers, including on charges of assault, cruelty and maltreatment. In this and the above case, the Church review noted that medical personnel may have attempted to cover-up the abuse. By the end of March 2005, in this and the above case, charges had been laid against two military personnel.

Name unknown January 2003 Wazi village, Afghanistan During military operations in Wazi village, three detained Afghans were being questioned, when one of them attempted to stand up, reportedly because he did not understand the questions, and a US soldier shot him. Army investigators recommended prosecution of the soldier for murder and another for dereliction of duty for not reporting the incident. Case under review at the time of writing.

Jamal Naseer March 2003 Gardez, Afghanistan Arrested along with seven other Afghan detainees, and during 17 days of detention allegedly subjected to abuse, including electric shocks, beatings, and immersion in water. No autopsy. Army investigation, not initiated until late 2004, ongoing.

Nagem Sadun Hatab 6 June 2003 Nasiriya, Iraq This 52-year-old died on 6 June 2003, three days after his arrest, as a result of "asphyxia due to strangulation". Additional findings at the autopsy included "blunt force injuries, predominantly recent contusions (bruises), on the torso and lower extremeties". It also found that he had suffered six fractured ribs and a broken hyoid bone. Army investigators found that he had been hit and kicked in the chest by soldiers on 4 June. On 5 June, he was reported to be lethargic, not eating and drinking very little, and possibly having difficulty breathing. He had diarrhoea and was covered in faeces. The jail commander ordered that he be stripped and taken outside the cellblock. According to the military investigation, he was left "naked outside in the sun and heat for the rest of the day and into the night." In September 2004, a Marine reservist was convicted of assault and dereliction of duty and sentenced to 60 days’ hard labour and was reduced in rank. The camp commander was sentenced to be dismissed from the army, after being convicted of dereliction of duty and maltreatment. Charges against six other marines and the commander of the detention facility were dismissed by their commanding authorities.

Dilar Dababa 13 June 2003 Baghdad, Iraq Detainee died of head injuries in a US interrogation facility. He died of "closed head injury with a cortical brain contusion and subdural hematoma." While in custody he "was subjected to both physical and psychological stress". He was handcuffed to a chair and the chair secured to a pipe in the room because he was allegedly combative and an escape risk.

Abdul Wali 21 June 2003 Asadabad, Afghanistan Abdul Wali died in US military custody in Asadabad Fire Base. In June 2004, Justice Department charged a civilian contractor working with the CIA with assault, rather than murder. The indictment stated that the contractor beat Abdul Wali, "using his hands and feet, and a large flashlight". In court proceedings in 2005, the defendant claimed that the interrogation methods had been indirectly authorized by the US administration via its deliberations over torture and ill-treatment as subsequently revealed in various administration memorandums.

Manadel al-Jamadi 4 November 2003 Abu Ghraib, Iraq Manadel al-Jamadi died in Abu Ghraib prison. The autopsy report concluded that his "external injuries are consistent with injuries sustained during apprehension. Ligature injuries are present on the wrists and ankles. Fractures of the ribs and a contusion of the left lung imply significant blunt force injuries of the thorax and likely resulted in impaired respiration. According to investigative agents, interviews taken from individuals present at the prison during the interrogation indicate that a hood made of synthetic material was placed over the head and neck of the detainee. This likely resulted in further compromise of effective respiration…. The cause of death is blunt force injuries of the torso complicated by compromised respiration. The manner of death is homicide." He was a "ghost detainee" brought into the prison by the CIA and left unregistered and untreated for injuries sustained on arrest. Seven Navy Seals confessed to assaulting the detainee. The army investigation was closed and referred to the Naval Criminal Investigation Service. Several Navy personnel have been charged.

‘Abd Hamad Mawhoush 26 November 2003 Al Qaim, Baghdad, Iraq 56-year-old Major General ‘Abd Hamad Mawhoush died in US custody, after two soldiers slid a sleeping bag over his body, except for his feet, and began questioning him as they rolled him repeatedly from his back to his stomach. Then one of the soldiers, an interrogator, sat on Mawhoush’s chest and placed his hands over the prisoner’s mouth. It was during this interrogation that the prisoner "became non-responsive". Four soldiers were charged with the death in October 2004. At a preliminary military hearing for three of them in December 2004, evidence emerged that the detainee had been beaten two days earlier by CIA and special forces soldiers, none of whom had been charged at the time of writing. The detainee was allegedly slapped, punched and beaten with a hose. He had several broken ribs and severe bruising. The decision as to whether to try the four charged soldiers by court-martial had not been taken at the time of writing.

Abu Malik Kenami 9 December 2003 Mosul, Iraq Abdul Kareem Abdul Rutha, also known as Abu Malik Kenami was detained on 5 December 2003 and brought to the US detention facility at "AO Glory" in Mosul. He was interrogated for the first and last time on that day. However, for the next four days, he was kept hooded with a plastic sandbag and his hands were handcuffed in front of him with plastic zip ties. The rule in the facility at that time was that the detainee must not attempt to lift the hood or talk. As punishment for disobeying these rules, Abu Malik Kenami was repeatedly subjected to "ups and downs", whereby the detainee is forced to stand up and sit down rapidly, in constant motion for up to 20 minutes at a time. On some occasions, he would have his hands handcuffed behind his back while forced to do this. On the morning of 9 December, he was found dead. His body was put in a refrigerated van for the next six days. No autopsy was conducted. An army investigator assigned to the case said that in the absence of an autopsy, "the cause of Abu Malik Kenami’s death will never be known", and that he could only "speculate" on the cause of death. He concluded that the detainee had died of a heart attack, including because "he was performing ups and downs for ten to twenty minutes several times over a two to three hour period".

Zaidoun Hassoun 3 January 2004 Samarra, Iraq 19-year-old detainee drowned after US soldiers allegedly forced him off a bridge in Samarra. Army investigation recommended prosecution of four soldiers for manslaughter. In the event, one soldier was sentenced to 45 days’ confinement for assault, obstruction of justice and dereliction of duty, and one to six months’ confinement for assault and obstruction of justice. Two other soldiers received non-judicial punishments.

Abdul Jaleel 9 January 2004 Al Asad, Iraq 47-year-old detainee died at Forward Operating Base Rifles. Autopsy concluded that the cause of death was multiple blunt force injuries and asphyxia. It found "deep contusions of the chest wall, numerous displaced rib fractures, lung contusions" and internal bleeding. He also had "fractures of the thyroid cartilage and hyoid bone". In the initial part of his detention he had been put in isolation and shackled to a pipe that ran along the ceiling. During questioning he was allegedly beaten and kicked in the stomach and ribs. Later, because he was allegedly uncooperative and disruptive, his hands were shackled to the top of his cell door, and he was gagged. He died in this position. The autopsy concluded that "the severe blunt force injuries, the hanging position, and the obstruction of the oral cavity with a gag contributed to this individual’s death. The manner of death is homicide". Army investigations recommended prosecution of two soldiers for negligent homicide and nine others for various offences including assault. However, the commanding officers determined that no charges would be referred, concluding that the detainee died as a result of a series of lawful applications of force in response to aggression and misconduct by the detainee.

Naser Ismail January 2004 Balad, Iraq A preliminary military hearing was held in January 2005 into the case of a Staff Sergeant with the 4th Infantry Division charged with murder and obstruction of justice in the case of an Iraqi detainee killed in an incident in January 2004. The hearing was to determine if there was enough evidence to take the case to court-martial. The result was not known at the time of writing.

Mohammed Munim al-Izmerly 31 January 2004 Baghdad, Iraq On 25 April 2003, this prominent Iraqi scientist was taken, handcuffed and hooded, to an unknown location. He was held for the next nine months, possibly at the "high value detainees" section at Baghdad International Airport. On 17 February 2004, the family received the news from the ICRC that 65-year-old Mohammed al-Izmerly was dead. He had died over two weeks earlier on 31 January 2004. The family commissioned their own autopsy which concluded that he had died from blunt force injury to the back of the head.

Muhamad Husain Kadir 28 February 2004 Near Taal Al Jal, Iraq Iraqi detainee shot by a soldier near Taal Al Jal, Kirkuk, when he allegedly lunged towards the arresting officer. This was found to be a lie. At a court-martial in August 2004, the soldier was found not guilty of murder but guilty of voluntary manslaughter. Sentenced to three years’ confinement and given a dishonourable discharge.

Name unknown April 2004 Mosul, Iraq Autopsy indicated blunt force trauma and positional asphyxia. Cause of death undetermined. The army investigation has been closed, and the case referred to Navy whose personnel are implicated.

Hamaady Kareem and Tahah Ahmead Hanjil 15 April 2004 Mahmudiyah, Iraq The two Iraqi men were allegedly shot in the back after being detained. It was alleged that a soldier shot them in anger after learning that military intelligence officers had decided not to detain them. A Second Lieutenant in the US Marines faced a preliminary military hearing in late April 2005 to determine whether he would face court-martial for the killings, which he maintained were committed in self-defence.

Karim Hassan Abed Ali al-Haleji 21 May 2004 An-Najaf, Iraq Two wounded Iraqis were captured in
An-Najaf. One, Karim Hassan, was shot and killed by a US army captain who was charged with assault with intent to commit murder. He claimed it was a "mercy killing". In March 2005, he was convicted by court-martial of assault with intent to commit voluntary manslaughter, which carried a possible 10-year prison sentence. On 1 April 2005, he was sentenced to dismissal from the army, but received no prison sentence.

Qasim Hassan 18 August 2004 Sadr City, Iraq 16-year-old killed in a purported "mercy killing". In December 2004, one soldier sentenced to three years’ imprisonment, and another to one year.
Name unknown 18 August 2004 Abu Ghraib prison, Iraq US guards used lethal force to subdue an "unruly group of prisoners", according to the autopsy. The detainee was shot in the head.

Thaher Khaleefa Ahmed 25 October 2004 Balad, Iraq During a house search, a man was shot by a US soldier. Army investigators established that the soldier lied, that the man was handcuffed when he allegedly lunged towards the soldier. The soldier has been charged with premeditated murder, maltreatment and assault. Trial by court-martial due in May 2005.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 08:46 AM
Response to Original message
1. Thanks ... K&R
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 09:41 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. welcome
I wish I had a more comprehensive, up to date, account of detainee deaths that would correspond with the numbers provided.

Amnesty's list is coroborated with government sources, so it's a good starting place for debate.

The report, 'Guantánamo and beyond: The continuing pursuit of unchecked executive power', has an extensive argument against many of the points that Bush is trying to make in his power grab, including the rationalizations for their continued detention without charges, which I think is the most pernicious thing outside of the torture and killings. They have the ability, as Amnesty points out, to hold these prisoners even after they are aquitted in court, which make a mockery of justice and the morality Bush pretends.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 11:00 AM
Response to Reply #2
4. Bush has no concept of what the word morality means.
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bigtree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 09:46 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. a more recent account states that:
Edited on Tue Sep-19-06 09:47 AM by bigtree
The latest questions to be raised in relation to the Guantánamo detainees surround the apparent suicides of three of them, Saudi nationals Mane’i bin Shaman bin Turki al-Habardi al-‘Otaybi and Yassar Talal ‘Abdullah Yahia al-Zahrani, who was reportedly 17 when he was taken into custody, and Yemeni national Salah ‘Ali ‘Abdullah Ahmed al-Salami. All three had previously participated in hunger-strikes and subjected to force feeding. All were held in a maximum security section of the detention camp. There are no records publicly available of the men’s Combatant Status Review Tribunals. Amnesty International is disturbed by the Guantánamo Commander’s description of the deaths as acts of "asymmetric warfare", by which he was tending to prejudge the outcome of the Naval Criminal Investigation Service investigation into the deaths.

Amnesty International believes that the military and the executive, as the authorities that have instigated and maintained a detention regime that has caused serious psychological suffering, and as they continue to rely on the war paradigm that they have used to justify rejection of fundamental human rights law and standards, will be unable to conduct the necessary investigation into the deaths and be seen by the outside world to have done so.


Memorandum to the US Government on the report of the UN Committee Against Torture and the question of closing Guantánamo
http://web.amnesty.org/library/Index/ENGAMR510932006?open&of=ENG-380
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 11:02 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. Calling the Guantanamo suicides "asymetric warfare" is too sick
for words.
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 11:22 AM
Response to Original message
6. Patton supposedly said, war, God, how I love it so: torture, God how they
must love it so I say.
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rustydog Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 12:13 PM
Response to Original message
7. Up to 90-FUCKING percent of detainees weere innocent civilians
sold as trerrorists to america for the bounty we were paying.
We beat people (innocent people) to death. Water boarding, electro-shock...
Boys, little boys were anally raped by Americans or American sponsored torturers.
the first batch of photos from Abu Ghraib and Gitmo are tame to what our fearless leaders saw in round two after court orders forced their release.
why do you think Bush argued so forcefully agianst releasing the photos...Innocent children anally raped for information. an innocent taxi driver beaten to death for information he did not have.

Cheny, Bush, that fuck Rumsfeld and Alberto Gonzalez need to be waterboarded so we can find who ok's the Anthrax attack that killed 5. We need to waterboard them to find out who outed Valerie Plame and WHY.
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MountainLaurel Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 12:21 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. If that's not a war crime
What is?
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tbyg52 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Sep-19-06 05:54 PM
Response to Original message
9. Of course a lot of these had nothing to do with getting information
And the impetus for this pointless torture (as opposed to torture with a point, which isn't right either) came straight from the top.
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