What I dislike about the term "kool-aid drinker"

[Taxloss]

... when applied to someone who scoffs at tinfoil theories by a tinfoiler.

It does several things simultaneously:

1. it attempts to shut down the discussion outright through derogatory accusation
2. it attempts to invalidate the poster as brainwashed, asleep and sheeplike and therefore nothing they have to say has merit or credibility.
3. it neatly sidesteps addressing the actual issue by painting the tinfoiler as a victim and sealing off less tinfoil-y arguments.

I kept getting it thrown at me when I point out that the 7/7 London bombs were a Rovian ploy designed to divert attention from Cindy Sheehan and that weather control is an absurd notion. I've noticed it always gets slung by someone UNCOMFORTABLE with the topic.

I'd prefer someone say "you're wrong" or "I see no facts in your assertion" or whatever. Then you're addressing the topic, and discussing the points of the issue. When you throw around "kool-aid drinker", "good sheep", "junkyard dog", "freeper", "sleeper", unless used for humorous or benignly satirical purposes, you're automatically forcing the other person to fend off the brainwashed troll label.

But I cannot control what people do, but I'm just making the observation that the term reverberates a great deal more other baggage than we think.

[William769]

1. When someone throws you a bunch of lemons

Make lemonade! :)

[applegrove]

2. I thought that kool-aid only referred to neocons. Was it not what

the "craczies" were called by colleagues in the WH & Pentagon in the early 1990s?

It refers to people who have drunk the same suicidal neocon juice and now try and spread the "word" of the greatness of perpetual war and controlling humanity with "well placed myths".

[Taxloss]

5. Well, it's used but DU's conspiracy theorists to attack those who disagree

with them.

[Just Me]

8. Where? When? I haven't witnessed that.

What are you talking about? :shrug:

[applegrove]

24. I think our friend may be confused. Or the victim of a misuse of the

word kool-aid drinker. It is a great word and used to describe neocons qutie effectively. I've never seen it used otherwise.

[applegrove]

23. I'm sorry but Kool aid is a moniker for the neocons that suits them

quite well. It is not used by conspiracy theoriest - it is used throughout WAshington to denote the neocons & their followers who "join the club" and start thinking like Utopians (except they hope for a very dark world and they'll build it to get what they want).

Neocons are not a conspiracy theory. Because, they have publically over years talked about the movement and either let people in the club or not. A conspiracy theory denotes that there is something secret going on. And though neocons do not publish their theories down to the roots.. they do publish their dreams and their fears.

So Kool aid is a great label to put on anyone who sounds like a neocon. Seymour Hersh uses it. So does all of Washington.

Neocons is a fact. A well know, well publized fact. They exit. They have a particular take on the world. They act on that. Together and alone. It is neither a theory nor a conspiracy theory. As to whether it is a conspiracy - well it is out in the open so not a conspiracy which denotes hidden relationships. These nuts act out openly and openly in unison.

Kool - aid drinker is a great way to nickname the idiots. If somebody used it wrongly on you - I'm sorry. But it does have meaning and it does paint and effective picture and the word does have a history. And don't whine too long and hard about "kool-aid drinker" because don't ya know the neocons are forever trying to re-myth anything they are called and they periodically bust a move and try and take the word "neocon" back and make it proprietary and not within the allowed vocabulary of the public. So be careful when taking a word that denotes "neocons" and trying to X nay it. That is the very thing neocons do.

Surely after the right wing in the USA turned "liberal" into a bad world. Surely we should be discerning these days in who we allow to be language police. Kool-aid drinker works well. It in no way is a conspiracy theory - neocons are real. And they do suffer from groupthink. Those are just the plain facts.

[sakabatou]

25. I only use it like that, too.

[vi5]

3. I think of Kool Aid Drinker is the opposite of what you're talking about..

I think a "tinfoil hat" type is the opposite of a Kool Aid drinker. The former thinks about things and does things in a way that is so far out of the normal realm of thought (not that this is a bad thing) that it marginalizes them and isolates them into a small group.

A "Kool Aid Drinker" is someone who just goes along with the flow and does and believes what they are told.

[Sarah Ibarruri]

4. I think it's a great term

It's a term that describes the blind worship of someone evil. Isn't that what's happened in the U.S. with the evil Chimp?

[Just Me]

6. I don't recall "kool-aid drinker" being thrown at scoffers.

Seriously.

But, maybe, you could provide an example.

:7 I'm sure you could.

Seriously, though,...I'm kinda' sick of the whole labeling bullshit, altogether.

Instead of being competitors against eachother, why can't we being on a team in competition to survive life? :shrug: Life would be so much better IMHO.

[Taxloss]

10. Well, here's a charming post comparing

conspiracy theorists to rape victims:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x4976225

Thelabelling I could live without. It's the fact that the tinfoilers whinge and whinge and whinge about being mistreated when in fact they're indulged, and they get hugely uppity about being nicknamed when they're generally the first to fling around names in any discussion. This post is in response to another post in GD complaining, yet again, that the term tinfoiler is offensive. I see it as a mote/beam issue.

[Just Me]

21. I'm unable to locate the "kool-aid drinkers" thingy.

Labeling is offensive, period. The right-wing has worked hard to make "liberal" and/or progressive thinking an offense.

THEY started the "war of labels". Anyone who CONSUMES that shit is destined to eat it.

I just don't know what else to say.

Look, your offense/defense about those who take a stand against the right-wing "conspiracy theorist" assertion EVERY TIME SOME ONE SEEKS THE TRUTH says something about you.

Personally, I am sick of every manuveur that shuts down a conversation among CONCERNED people. I couldn't give a rat's ass about those who have proven themselves exploiters of humanity. That's just how I feel about all that.

[Warpy]

7. It's counterproductive to hurl insults at THEM, but the term is

quite useful when we're discussing the almost zombie like cultist behavior of the average religious extremist GOP voter among ourselves.

After all, they don't want to discuss. They want to TESTIFY. Forget about reasoned discussions or an exchange of viewpoints. They're not interested in ours. This is pure Koolaid drinker behavior, pure cult behavior, totally brainwashed behavior. The only thing we can do with them is say, "You BOUGHT that?" and walk away.

However, the terms remain useful when we're discussing them as third parties. If you find them distasteful on the DU boards, then don't use them. However, I doubt many of us will be bullied into abandoning useful descriptives because of it.

[1620rock]

18. Kool-aid drinker is a very apropos term...

...it's origin was the Jim Jones Johnstown cult of religious zombies who did whatever Jones told them to do. As their final act he told the blind followers to drink poisoned kool-aid and die...without a thought they did as they were told and died. :shrug:

[DanCa]

9. What was the name of the cult leader who inspired this phrase?

The one who had his followers drink poisoned kool-aid? Seriously my mind keeps on blanking on the name.

[Fredda Weinberg]

11. Jim Jones

[Taxloss]

12. Rev Jim Jones, I think. n/t

[rinsd]

14. Jim Jones and Jonestown (nt)

[DanCa]

16. Thanks I didn't know if it was James or Jones.

[rinsd]

17. Powers Boothe does a very creepy rendition in a made for TV flick (nt)

[Sarah Ibarruri]

15. James Jones? nt

[smomfr]

22. Right, it was Jim Jones followers

who drank poison laced kool-ade. He did it basically by scaring the shit out of his followers. I´ll bet the whole Jonestown thing fascinates Rove.

[G_j]

13. --

nevermind

[Taxloss]

20. If you think it is, alert on it.

If the mods think it is, they'll delete it.

I'm posting it in response to another post complaining about the term tinfoil hat. Simply pointing out that tinfoil has two sides.

[jim3775]

19. For those who don't know; this in response to a previous post

about the use of the term "tinfoil hat".

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=218428&mesg_id=218428