For my Canadian DUers: a "sins of the father" question

[journalist3072]

I have a question for my Canadian DUers:

Do you think Paul Martin is paying for the "sins of the father" in a sense? Is he paying for John Chretien's problems that he had while he was in office? Didn't the sponsorship scandal happen on Chretien's watch, and is Paul Martin being punished for it?

It seems to me that may be at work here.

What do you all think?

[yvr girl]

1. Partially, yes

The Liberals have been in power for over a decade. Martin hasn't been PM for all of it, but he was a prominent cabinet minister.

I think people just want change.

[PDJane]

2. Yeah, partly........

and I think that Chrétièn set it up that way; he was an astute politician but a really nasty human being.

But I do have to admit that I think that we've made a wrong choice in Harper. He's a neo-con fundie type, a type that Canada hasn't had to deal with much and don't recognize.

I would have to point out that there are a series of checks and balances in place that he won't be able to override the way the Bush bunch did stateside. I do hope......very much.....that he doesn't attempt to overthrow same sex marriage, because that would be a very bad precedent; the only use of the notwithstanding clause to fight civil rights.

[OrangeCountyDemocrat]

3. Nowhere To Run, Nowhere To Hide.

There are no places us liberals can feel safe or in the majority anymore. Christ, we can't even go to Canada now. This is such fucking bullshit.

[radio4progressives]

9. Venezuela, Bolivia, Equadore, Costa Rica, Peru, Uraguay ....

and who knows, maybe Mexico pretty soon.

start beefing up your spanish...

[journalist3072]

4. Thanks for the feedback. I find Canadian politics very interesting...

And I love listening to Radio Canada International on my shortwave radio. So I try to keep up that way.

By the way, has anyone in Canadian politics every expressed concern about the "no confidence" votes that the parliment is able to take?

It would appear to me that switching governments (seemingly frequently) like this, might cause concerns about the stability of government.

In a way, I wish we could have "no confidence" votes like this here in the U.S., but I also wonder if it might act as a de-stabilizer of government.

[PDJane]

7. I've never heard anyone

complain about it or attempt to abolish it. I don't think it is a destablizer, although Jack Layton may be regretting this one. I do think that non-confidence votes and a non-elected senate do what they were intended to do; they put the brakes on the more outrageous motions of government.

There is no "presidential veto"......but the senate does act in that fashion. There has been a lot of talk of an elected senate, but I'm one of the few who rather likes the senate as it is now.

[journalist3072]

8. Thanks for this education in Canadian politics..I am truly enjoying it

I guess because the Canadian system is so different from ours, I love trying to study it. Fascinating stuff!

[ClusterFreak]

5. To an extent, yes....

The sponsorship scandal was a devastating hit....Martin's own blundering campaign was the death blow.

[Pab Sungenis]

6. All that needs to happen is for Harper to screw up just once.

The Liberals, the NDP, and a couple of the Bloc can all band together and force no confidence. That should keep the worst of the Conservative agenda from going into force.

[HEyHEY]

10. And for his own bumbling ways

[Lisa]

11. Mulroney did a similar thing -- retired, and threw the mess ...

... into his successor's lap. That way, he didn't have to be there when his party was rejected at the polls. In Chretien's case, the added twist was that Paul Martin had always been a leadership rival (especially after succeeding at the Finance Minister job -- I would not have been surprised if Chretien had been hoping to see him fall on his face and mess up the budget). I suppose, in Chretien's mind, Paul Martin was punished for being so eager to get the top position.

There was certainly a rift between the people who'd supported Chretien, and those who'd backed Martin. Some Liberals left the party over it. Our local guy (David Anderson) was one of the Chretien loyalists, and he retired from politics after Martin demoted him.