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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 07:31 AM
Original message
How to confuse a "Christian"?
I work with several of these people. They support George W Bush and they love to talk about their church and their activities. At every opportunity, I remind them that Jesus does would not support this war. Sometimes they will reference the "Old Testament". I remind them that Christians have a new Covenant - the New Testament. Jesus did not say an eye for an eye - Jesus said turn the other cheek. Jesus did not say to destroy your enemies - Jesus said to love your enemies. Somehow this is very confusing for them. I always close by saying that Jesus would not support this war in Iraq. I remind them of the false prophets amongst us. They have such a difficult time reconciling their religion with their political beliefs.
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Sherman A1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 07:34 AM
Response to Original message
1. Oh, those pesky quotes
WWJD????
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WCGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
2. 90% Old Testament... Sprinkle just a little Jesus on top....
And then straight on to Revelation...

That is how conservative Christians view their religion.....
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AlinPA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
16. Exactly. Most conservatives don't act like they follow Christ's teachings.
Hatred, intolerance, greed, lies, war, hypocrisy are republican values.
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pinkpops Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 08:22 AM
Response to Reply #2
17. Jesus puts a face on it - It is a branding tactic -
Jesus Brand
White man on a donkey
Jus Folks
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winston61 Donating Member (642 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 07:37 AM
Response to Original message
3.  I would urge you to get a copy of 'Democracy Matters' by
Cornel West. Read the chapter on fundamentalism. This will arm you to counter the il-logic of these people. West says it all very well.
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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 07:51 AM
Response to Reply #3
6. Cornel West is a Brilliant man ,which is why he's a Liberal Christian.
Edited on Sat Sep-30-06 07:52 AM by orpupilofnature57
Not as easy as a howling loon with a pass ,it's a constant argument with fellow liberals and fellow Christians ,but that is the precious exercise democracy Guarantees Us.It's hard to be a real Christian and http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/04/09/03_hard.html
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POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 07:42 AM
Response to Original message
4. When they justify their beliefs based on
the Old Testament remind them what Paul wrote to Titus:

3,10 For there are many who refuse to obey; this is especially true among those who say that all Christians must obey the Jewish laws. But this is foolish talk; it blinds people to the truth,

11 and it must be stopped. Already whole families have been turned away from the Grace of God. Such teachers are only after your money.
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pooja Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 07:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
5. that is a good one....
I have told my husband this. He loves Bush... I finally had it. I said Jesus doesn't bomb babies, he walked with whores, he touched lepars, he conversed with the gentile. And then I said, you believe in God. You believe Him when he says beware of false prophets who will lead you astray. How else the Devil better disguise himself than sitting in the thrones of power?
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POAS Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 08:04 AM
Response to Reply #5
14. So your sorta
James Carville to his Mary Matalin ;)
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sweetheart Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 07:52 AM
Response to Original message
7. religion doesn't matter unless one is humble
If you don't see a bigger world out there beyond your own ego bubble,
then religion is not about becoming wise, but adopting the deconstruction
of learning, as trivial symbols inside the psychological mechanisms of
the ego, to be debated and tossed about; yet at the root of religion is
the religious experience, something entirely personal and not centrallized,
one's direct communion with life, and this doesn't happen unless someone
realizes the emptyness of identifying with the ego.

Or perhaps, religion is the organization of the esoteric side, inside
the bubble of the ego so that persons can conceive of something they don't know,
and in this sense, religion is the ultimate deception of its own ends.
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Lerkfish Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 07:56 AM
Response to Original message
8. please be more specific than "christian"
thanks. Us liberal christians are tired of people confusing fundamentalist RW whackjobs for the entire "christian" group.
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Crazy Dave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 07:57 AM
Response to Original message
9. It sounds so stereotypical but....
It's always the Bush supporters who seem to distort and re-interpret the bible to fit their agenda or to make up excuses. If it's "in God's name" or "it's God's will" then no matter the overwhelming facts or the law, you "do not dare question God's will". I love to throw the part about Jesus saying if you help the poor and the needy, then you are really helping him (Jesus). Lot's of good Christians do help but every, not almost every, every Bush supporter that I know personally will tell you that, "God only helps those who help themselves". Damn, with those Bush tax cuts you'd think they'd have a little more generosity.
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liberal N proud Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 07:59 AM
Response to Original message
10. They only use the parts of the bible they need for a given application
They pick and choose what stories from the bible to apply to their need at hand.
Need to justify a holy war, look to the old testament.
Need to justify forgiveness for their crimes, look to the new testament.

In other words, if they are attacking a person or people, they use the laws from the old testament, eye for an eye, Sodom and Gamora...
BUT; if they need to find an excuse for the child molesting or the money they stole or the belligerence, they very conveniently find the new testament, turn the other cheek, Jesus is forgiveness and all that stuff.

I am sure that GOD looks down on this type of Christian with disdain.
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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 08:00 AM
Response to Reply #10
12. Right on!
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 08:00 AM
Response to Original message
11. No they don't
They may not be able to explain it to you, but they go back to their church community and don't give it another thought.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 08:04 AM
Response to Original message
13. I always get them with this:
My problem with the Christian right is that they have traded in the power of the Gospel for the power of the ballot box. It is not about Jesus anymore it is about political power.
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Mist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 08:15 AM
Response to Original message
15. "Old Testament Christians" - Xtians with no use for the New Testament.nt
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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #15
18. 'Old testament Christians' ? No such thing ,they call them Jewish.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #18
20. But it was a valid point in terms of politics
Many of the Republican Christian Conservative policies are originating from their interpretation of the Old Testament.
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orpupilofnature57 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 09:22 AM
Response to Reply #20
21. Because they don't subscribe to real Christianity ,hence Phonies
Edited on Sat Sep-30-06 09:24 AM by orpupilofnature57
The proof is in their policies ,torture ,invasion of all kinds and to all people.
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Mist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 10:44 AM
Response to Reply #18
22. I know, I know, but I like to use the expression to make a point. I get
a LOT of criticism for the "Old Testament Xtian" thing. But I like it!
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zeemike Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 08:30 AM
Response to Original message
19. keep up the good work
It may seem like you are having no effect but I am sure that at some level they really do get it.
I have often had this argument with them in the last 20 years or so and I know when i hit a nerve because they run away. but that does not mean that they don't get it, it only means they are not yet ready to change.
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greenman3610 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 01:14 PM
Response to Original message
23. Say this, "what I love most about Jesus Christ...
is that he wasn't a Christian.."
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BuyingThyme Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 01:17 PM
Response to Original message
24. If Jesus suffered for your sins,
for whom are Bush's torture victims suffering?
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TrogL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 01:38 PM
Response to Original message
25. Tarring with a large brush
Not all Christians support Dubya.
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never cry wolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 01:46 PM
Response to Original message
26. Here's a long email I put together on Jesus' Liberalness
I put this together to send to a friend a while ago after a quick google. I was raised Xtian but am more agnostic now a days:

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 3)
Blessed are the meek: for they shall posses the land. (Verse 4)
Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted. (Verse 5)
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. (Verse 6)
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Verse 7)
Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God. (Verse 8)
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)


The "right" chokes on the beatitudes

--------------------
If the right-wingers really studied the matter, they'd find they have more in common with Muhammad than with Jesus. Muhammad was a merchant, a businessman and entrepreneur - a capitalist. Before Jesus walked off his job, he was a carpenter, a common laborer - and with his talk of brotherhood, no doubt would have been a union man.

He hung out with the dregs of society: the poor, prostitutes, tax collectors, and finally thieves. Not exactly the kind of person to whom you would entrust your most precious and eternal possession: your stock portfolio.

Jesus revealed his anti-business agenda as soon as he threw the money-changers out of the temple. To the orthodox for whom taxation is government organized theft, Jesus' clear advocacy of paying taxes by "rendering unto Caesar" is a complete abomination. Scholars are still divided over whether the raising of Lazarus was to escape the death tax or an intent to pay it twice.

--------------------

Jesus mollycoddled the poor and went out of his way to condemn the rich. His warning that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of a needle than for a wealthy man to get into heaven was typical socialist blather. The affluent have had to devote themselves to breeding smaller camels and building larger needles ever since.

------------------
Jesus' purpose in life was to do the will of His heavenly Father. Wherever He went, He brought goodness. He never hurt or injured anyone, although He did get angry at others who did wrong. He called self-righteous church-going people vipers and once turned over tables in the temple where money-changers were taking advantage of the people.

Jesus was friends with the outcast of society—sinners. He reached out to the publicans, thieves, prostitutes. He never scorned anyone. He knew what was in the heart of a man (or woman). Just because they were religious did not mean that they knew God.

----------------------

Jesus challenged the Pharisees’ purity system by almost everything he did. It’s no coincidence that there are so many stories about Jesus getting into the everyday dirt and grit of life. Touching lepers, being touched by a hemorrhaging woman. Forgiving an adulteress. Going into an unclean graveyard to cast out demons and send them into a herd of unclean pigs. Eating with outcasts like tax collectors and prostitutes, and drunkards — all of those people at the very bottom of the Who’s Who of the Impure.

So Jesus came to confront the heart of this system — the temple — by driving out the money-changers and the sacrificial animal dealers; by exposing the profits and the kickbacks that the temple elite received “under the table” when he said that the temple authorities had turned his Father’s house into a “den of robbers,” as it’s recorded in Matthew, Mark and Luke.

----------------------

"Jesus replied: 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself. All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments'" (Matthew 22:37-40, emphasis mine).

"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this all people will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another" (John 13:34-35).

The counterfeit Christ and his followers have long lists of "do's and don't's" that are preached as "Gospel." And everyone who doesn't subscribe to their legalistic list are condemned. We see them protesting with signs that read "God hates fags," "God hates baby-killers," and "God hates !"

But the genuine Jesus has just two laws: love God and love people. True followers of Jesus may not agree with the lifestyles and opinions of everyone (in fact, they shouldn't), but they will be the first to show compassion to those they disagree with. That's why Jesus hung out with drunks, prostitutes, "tax collectors," and "sinners." He loved people. He didn't love all their actions--and didn't join them in all their behaviors--but He showed them that he loved them. True followers of Jesus are not preaching against people with addictions; they are volunteering at rehabilitation programs at local shelters. They're not bombing abortion clinics; they're working in the pro-life Crisis Pregnancy Centers.

--------------------------

Jesus also had withering words for the wealthy who oppressed--or simply ignored --the poor.

"Blessed are you who are poor, for yours is the kingdom of God. But woe to you who are rich, for you have already received your comfort" (Luke 6:20, 24).

Genuine followers of Jesus have a sense of joy and satisfaction in who they are--at whatever "level" on the social or ecclesiastical ladder they may find themselves.

Jesus said, "I have told you this so that my joy may be in you and that your joy may be complete" (John 15:11).

----------------------------

5. His earthly father was a carpenter, a humble hewer of wood with whom He lived and laboured, conforming to our human ways of life, custom, language and living that He might understand and love us better and communicate with us on the lowly level of our own limited human understanding!--He learned to LOVE Mankind. He saw their suffering and had great compassion on them, longing to not only heal their sick and broken bodies, but also to save their immortal spirits!

6. When the time came and He began his life's work, He went about everywhere doing good.--Helping people, loving children, healing heartaches, strengthening tired bodies, saving whom He could. He not PREACHED His message, but He LIVED it amongst us. He not only ministered to their spiritual needs, but He spent a great deal of time ministering to their physical and material needs, miraculously healing them when they were sick, feeding them when they were hungry and sharing His life and His Love!

7. He was so simple and His religion was so simple that He said you must become as a little CHILD to receive it! He didn't preach Temple worship, He didn't preach going to synagogue nor going to church, He didn't preach any complicated ceremonies or difficult rules.--All he did was preach LOVE and show Love, as He strove to lead God's children into the True Kingdom of God, whose only laws are to "love the Lord with all thy heart" and "love thy neighbour as thyself".

8. He had very little to do with the high-fallutin', rich-robed, churchy scribes, pharisees and hypocrites--the religious leaders of that day--except when they insisted on annoying Him with their critical questions. Then He would sock it to them, publicly exposing them as the "blind leaders of the blind" that they were, even telling them that they were like white-washed SEPULCHRES, which indeed appear beautiful, clean and holy on the OUTSIDE, but WITHIN are full of rottenness, corruption and stinking dead men's bones!

9. He was not a mere religious reformer, He was a REVOLUTIONARY! He refused to compromise with the false religious system, but rather worked totally OUTSIDE of it, reaching and sharing His Love with the poor and common folk who had long ago abandoned and been abandoned by organised religion. He never went into any bar with whip in hand, breaking up the bottles and throwing out the bartender. Nor did He ever enter any brothel, beating up the poor girls, overturning their beds and throwing the men out the window.--But He DID make a whip, go into their big beautiful religious Temple, overturn the tables, spill out the money and drive the money-mad money-changers out of the church, condemning them for turning what was supposed to be a house of prayer into a den of thieves!

10. He made Himself of no reputation, and was a companion of drunks and prostitutes, publicans and sinners, the outcasts and downtrodden of society. He even told them that they would enter the Kingdom of Heaven before the so-called "good" people, the self-righteous and religious leaders who re jected Him and His simple Message of Love. The power of His Love and of His appeal was so great and gave such great faith to the sincere truth-seekers that they didn't hesitate to drop everything they had and forsake all immediately to become His full-time followers!

----------------------------

From Matthew 25:

31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are
blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for
you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are
cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to
eternal life."

------------------------------------------------------------

Ruth went to her mail box and there was only one letter. She picked
it up and looked at it before opening, but then she looked at the
envelope again.
There was no stamp, no postmark, only her name and address.
She read the letter:

Dear Ruth:

I`m going to be in your neighborhood Saturday afternoon
and I'd like to stop by for a visit.

Love Always, Jesus

Her hands were shaking as she placed the letter on the
table. "Why would the Lord want to visit me? I'm nobody special. I don't have anything to offer."
With that thought, Ruth remembered her empty kitchen cabinets.
"Oh my goodness, I really don't have anything to offer. I'll have
to run down to the store and buy something for dinner." She reached for her purse and counted out its contents. Five dollars and forty cents. "Well, I can get some bread and cold cuts, at least."
She threw on her coat and hurried out the door.

A loaf of French bread, a half-pound of sliced turkey,
and a carton of milk...leaving Ruth with grand total twelve cents to last her until Monday. Nonetheless, she felt good as she headed home, her meager offerings tucked under her arm.

"Hey lady, can you help us, lady?"
Ruth had been so absorbed in her dinner plans, she hadn't even
noticed two figures huddled in the alleyway. A man and a woman,
both of them dressed in little more than rags

"Look lady, I ain't got a job, ya know, and my wife and I have
been living out here on the street, and, well, now it's getting cold
and we're getting kinda hungry and, well, if you could help us. Lady,
we'd really appreciate it."

Ruth looked at them both. They were dirty, they smelled bad and frankly, she was certain that they could get some kind of work if they really wanted to.

"Sir, I'd like to help you, but I'm a poor woman myself. All I have
is a few cold cuts and some bread, and I'm having an important guest
for dinner tonight and I was planning on serving that to Him."

"Yeah, well, okay lady, I understand. Thanks anyway."

The man put his arm around the woman's shoulders, turned
and headed back into the alley.

As she watched them leave, Ruth felt a familiar twinge in her heart.

"Sir, wait!" The couple stopped and turned as she ran down the alley after them. "Look, why don't you take this food. I'll figure out
something else to serve my guest." She handed the man her grocery bag.

"Thank you lady. Thank you very much!"

"Yes, thank you!" It was the man's wife, and Ruth could see now that she was shivering. "You know, I've got another coat at home. Here,
why don't you take this one." Ruth unbuttoned her jacket and slipped
it over the woman's shoulders. Then smiling, she turned and walked
back to the street...without her coat and with nothing to serve her
guest.

"Thank you lady!"

"Thank you very much!"

Ruth was chilled by the time she reached her front door, and worried too. The Lord was coming to visit and she didn't have anything to
offer Him. She fumbled through her purse for the door key. But as
she did, she noticed another envelope in her mailbox.

"That's odd. The mailman doesn't usually come twice in one day."
She took the envelope out of the box and opened it.

Dear Ruth:

It was so good to see you again. Thank you for the lovely meal. And thank you, too, for the beautiful coat.

Love Always Jesus

The air was still cold, but even without her coat, Ruth no longer
noticed.

-----------------------

Matthew 23
Seven Woes
1Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples: 2"The teachers of the law and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat. 3So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. 4They tie up heavy loads and put them on men's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them.
5"Everything they do is done for men to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; 6they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; 7they love to be greeted in the marketplaces and to have men call them 'Rabbi.'

8"But you are not to be called 'Rabbi,' for you have only one Master and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth 'father,' for you have one Father, and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called 'teacher,' for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11The greatest among you will be your servant. 12For whoever exalts himself will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted.

13"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men's faces. You yourselves do not enter, nor will you let those enter who are trying to.

15"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as you are.

16"Woe to you, blind guides! You say, 'If anyone swears by the temple, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is bound by his oath.' 17You blind fools! Which is greater: the gold, or the temple that makes the gold sacred? 18You also say, 'If anyone swears by the altar, it means nothing; but if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is bound by his oath.' 19You blind men! Which is greater: the gift, or the altar that makes the gift sacred? 20Therefore, he who swears by the altar swears by it and by everything on it. 21And he who swears by the temple swears by it and by the one who dwells in it. 22And he who swears by heaven swears by God's throne and by the one who sits on it.

23"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—justice, mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. 24You blind guides! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel.

25"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of greed and self-indulgence. 26Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean.

27"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of dead men's bones and everything unclean. 28In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are full of hypocrisy and wickedness.

29"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You build tombs for the prophets and decorate the graves of the righteous. 30And you say, 'If we had lived in the days of our forefathers, we would not have taken part with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.' 31So you testify against yourselves that you are the descendants of those who murdered the prophets. 32Fill up, then, the measure of the sin of your forefathers!

33"You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell? 34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town. 35And so upon you will come all the righteous blood that has been shed on earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36I tell you the truth, all this will come upon this generation.

37"O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those sent to you, how often I have longed to gather your children together, as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you were not willing. 38Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39For I tell you, you will not see me again until you say, 'Blessed is he who comes in the name of the Lord.'"

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StellaBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-30-06 01:48 PM
Response to Original message
27. Sigh...
Listen to this interview Sam Harris gave YESTERDAY, talking about the disingenuous and dangerous position of religion moderates who decry fanatical members of their religion as "not real _________" (Christians, Muslims, Moonies, whatever)

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6166802
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