LAT Columnist "I Don't Support the Troops" - Is This for Real?

[Yollam]

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/commentary/la-oe-stein24jan24,0,4137172.column?coll=la-news-comment-opinions

January 24, 2006
Joel Stein:
Warriors and wusses
I DON'T SUPPORT our troops. This is a particularly difficult opinion to have, especially if you are the kind of person who likes to put bumper stickers on his car. Supporting the troops is a position that even Calvin is unwilling to urinate on.

I'm sure I'd like the troops. They seem gutsy, young and up for anything. If you're wandering into a recruiter's office and signing up for eight years of unknown danger, I want to hang with you in Vegas.

And I've got no problem with other people — the ones who were for the Iraq war — supporting the troops. If you think invading Iraq was a good idea, then by all means, support away. Load up on those patriotic magnets and bracelets and other trinkets the Chinese are making money off of.

But I'm not for the war. And being against the war and saying you support the troops is one of the wussiest positions the pacifists have ever taken — and they're wussy by definition. It's as if the one lesson they took away from Vietnam wasn't to avoid foreign conflicts with no pressing national interest but to remember to throw a parade afterward.

Blindly lending support to our soldiers, I fear, will keep them overseas longer by giving soft acquiescence to the hawks who sent them there — and who might one day want to send them somewhere else. Trust me, a guy who thought 50.7% was a mandate isn't going to pick up on the subtleties of a parade for just service in an unjust war. He's going to be looking for funnel cake.

Besides, those little yellow ribbons aren't really for the troops. They need body armor, shorter stays and a USO show by the cast of "Laguna Beach."

The real purpose of those ribbons is to ease some of the guilt we feel for voting to send them to war and then making absolutely no sacrifices other than enduring two Wolf Blitzer shows a day. Though there should be a ribbon for that.

...........


I'm not advocating that we spit on returning veterans like they did after the Vietnam War, but we shouldn't be celebrating people for doing something we don't think was a good idea. All I'm asking is that we give our returning soldiers what they need: hospitals, pensions, mental health and a safe, immediate return. But, please, no parades.

Seriously, the traffic is insufferable.








Why do I ask if this is for real? Not because the guy says he doesn't support the troops. I know people on both sides of that meaningless semantic divide. No, what gets me his his spreading the false meme that people spit on troops returning from Vietnam. Since this has NEVER been documented as having happened and is basically an urban myth that sprung from the "Rambo" movies, why would this "lefty" go around spreading the false meme that 60's anti-war protesters spit on the troops, when they did not? Is this reporter a CIA plant of some sort, or is he just projecting???

[Selatius]

1. It could be a case of sheer ignorance on his part

All things being equal, I think it's a simple case of ignorance rather than an elaborate government-CIA plot to spread anti-left propaganda through the LA Times. Occam's Razor unless evidence proves otherwise in this case.

[vi5]

2. If this is the same Joel Stein, it's clearly satire....

I think the guy wrote some pieces for Time and a few other magazines and he's also on a lot of those humorous VH1 talking head type commentary shows. He's a satirist. Read it in the tone of a Daily Show correspondent piece and you've got the idea. I'm surprised they published it in a newspaper though.

This is assuming it is the same Joel Stein which based on the tone, tenor and style of the writing it is.

[Yollam]

3. If this is humor, it's way too dry for my blood.

Well, I thought that this story was noteworthy, if for no other reason than to get it on the record that protesters never spat on the troops. If anything, it was the other way around.

[vi5]

5. Yes, he's very dry....

I like my humor and satire that way so that's why I enjoy his writing. It reminded me also of Larry David's very dry NYT editorial praising Bush for his guard service. The reality of the piece was that David was saying it was good because it made people like him who did join the guard to dodge vietnam and who had nothing but cushy accomodations, seem like a war hero too.

[bluestateguy]

4. I don't think it's satire

I see his point, but I don't think the American people are bright enough to digest it. Just saying that you don't support the troops is enough to make everyone's brains shut down. The rest of the argument just kind of gets lost. Now he will probably get swift-boated, or even death threats from violent, angry conservatives.

[vi5]

6. It's satire...read the guys bio on the LAT page...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Joel Stein is desperate for attention. He grew up in Edison, N.J., went to Stanford and then worked for Martha Stewart for a year. After two years of fact-checking at various publications, he got hired as a sports editor at Time Out New York. Two years later he lucked into a job as a staff writer for Time magazine, where over seven and a half years he wrote a dozen cover stories on subjects such as Michael Jordan, Las Vegas, the Internet bubble and — it being Time and he being a warm body in the office — low-carb diets.

Being desperate for attention, he has appeared on any TV show that asks him: VH1's "I Love the Decade You Tell Me I Love," HBO's "Phoning It In," Comedy Central's "Reel Comedy" and E! Entertainment's "101 Hottest Hot Hotties' Hotness."

After teaching a class in humor writing at Princeton, he moved to L.A. at the beginning of 2005 to write a column for the Los Angeles Times. He still contributes to Time and whatever magazines allow him to. But his heart belongs to you, L.A. Times reader. Only to you. "

[SmokingJacket]

9. I think the essay is basically in earnest, though.

He just doesn't know how to write a non-humor piece.

[friesianrider]

7. I don't know if its satire, but this line is extremely true:

"The real purpose of those ribbons is to ease some of the guilt we feel for voting to send them to war and then making absolutely no sacrifices other than enduring two Wolf Blitzer shows a day."

[yurbud]

16. he had a couple of good points, but the bad ones will be on O'Reilly

tonight and Rush tomorrow.

[friesianrider]

36. Oh, no doubt...

The dittoheads will be in an uproar. :eyes:

[yurbud]

39. "You see, my friends? Hasn't the Rushbo been telling you this all along?

The liberal hate our troops and consider them war criminals..."

[SmokingJacket]

8. Yeah, there's something a little yucky about this piece...

I don't think it's satirical, though wasn't Joel Stein the guy who used to write unbearably snarky little pieces for Time? But the references to spitting and then joking that you don't want any parades for returning troops because of the traffic is not funny -- and not serious either.

He's making a valid point -- that you can't really "support" the troops if you don't like what they're doing (though, personally, my position is that I support them so much I want them out of harm's way) -- but he's couched it in the wrong terms.

I think his deal (if he's who I think he is) is that he lacks tact.

[seabeyond]

10. he is ultimately supporting the troops as he denies it n/t

[Boo Boo]

11. I think it's more sarcasm than satire. The things he wants to do

for the troops rather than "support" them are, obviously, things we should do to really support the troops. The things (yellow ribbons, parades) that he disparages as "support" don't really support the troops at all---they support Bush and his phony, worthless WOT.

[sandnsea]

14. But that's not the anti-war crowd

So why he chose to lump them in there is beyond me. If he thinks it's a cute way of getting his message across, he's wrong. The magnet toting Bush loving knuckleheads will not see themselves in anything if its convenient to point the finger somewhere else.

[sandnsea]

12. another pretentious ass

Says he doesn't support the troops or want to be an anti-war - support the troops - wuss who only wants to shower vets with parades. Then turns around and advocates for the exact same care for the troops that those "wusses" are demanding, but pretends that he is somehow smarter than the wusses because, after all, they're just prancing around in parades. :eyes:

I hate hate hate people like this. Why do they have jobs?

[Name removed]

13. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[yurbud]

15. Wikipedia link to book on spitting myth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spitting_on_soldiers_during_the_Vietnam_War

[TahitiNut]

18. This has been discussed and debunked on DU.

Lembcke hinges his ENTIRE "publish or perish" book on two notions: (1) that it was 'hippies' and (20 that it would've been reported in the media.

Both are total bullshit. I have no idea what political ideologies the spitter may have had. Vets habitually called any young civilian wearing the style of the time a "hippie" .. and the LAST THING I, or any guy in my postion, wanted to do is get in a fight or involve the media. The media wouldn't be interested. Guys were DYING in Nam! WHo the hell would care if some asshole spit at some vet? How would he prove it? Hell ... it was the common attitude that Viet Nam vet got. That's just not news!!

Check the prior DU discussions ... it's INTOLERABLE to go through this shit again on DU!

[jonnyblitz]

20. I never saw the "debunking "of this book...nt

[TahitiNut]

33. Then open your mind and read ...

(1) Returning Viet Nam vets were spat at/on. I was.

(2) In the 70s, most vets couldn't/wouldn't talk about their experiences, either in Nam or coming 'home.' Even if willing, there was too much hostility.

(3) It's IMPOSSIBLE to reliably call the spitters "hippies" even though that would be the term most vets, even me, would have used to describe draft-age young people wearing the fashion of the time. Whether or not such folks were 'hippies' or not has NOTHING to do with the fact that it happened. Personally, I believe it was mostly chickenhawks-in-the-bud right-wingers. Remember, it was "Johnson's War"! The anti-war folks were just as likely to be junior Republicans as Democrats ... and "right v. left" wasn't at all aligned by poltical partiy at the time.

(4) After the beginning of the 80s, we saw the (bizarre) phenomenon of guys falsely claiming to be Viet Nam Veterans. Some were veterans who never saw Viet Nam and some were never in the military. Strangely, however, it became "fashionable" to claim it -- and along with the false claim of being a Viet Nam Veteran would come OTHER false claims. The falsity of some of the claims DOES NOT make the true instances false.

(5) Thus, we can certainly say that there was some magnification and mis-attribution of such events ... but NOBODY should ever claim it didn't happen. It did. To deny it is pouring salt in a reopened wound. That's either malicious or stupid or both.

(6) Lembke rests far too heavily on two claims: (a) that it was 'hippies' and (b) that there'd be EVIDENCE. Even so, Lembcke found instances where there was EVIDENCE (other than 'mere' anecdote) that it happened. I regard this as somewhat surprising, since I couldn't even imagine reporting such an event, let alone getting into some fight about it when I was OBSESSED with getting 'home.' The presumption that somebody would get such an event on film, make a police report (why would they be interested?), or have some other kind of evidence is really quite surreal. That's the LAST thing I'd have done.



Quite frankly, from some of the attitudes I see expressed on DU, I wouldn't put it past some of these folks. It's appalling to see some of these attitudes expressed by 'leftists'! I was PERSONALLY treated great by 'hippies' and anti-war folks. I was one. My ride from OAB to SFO was in a 'flower-power' VW minivan driven by the hippie Berkeley girlfriend of a Berkeley-ite veteran I returned with. It was a personally mind-bending reimmersion into the 'world' which had changed a LOT in a year.

[jonnyblitz]

34. my mind doesn't need opening..don't assume shit

I just never saw the "debunking" is all I said. so this book specifically addresses the lemcke book or is it just a book by somebody who was spat upon?

I will check this book out. seriously. I devour books. I am also a vet but not of Vietnam.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LeftCoast]

32. Democratic Underground has two wonderful features which can help

make the intolerable more tolerable. The first is the "ignore user" button. The second is the "hide thread" button. Used in conjunction, these two features can be a powerful tool in making DU a more pleasant experience for the user.

[jonnyblitz]

19. i read that book. it's very interesting. I recommend it. nt

[gauguin57]

17. Joel Stein left Time to write tor "Crumbs" (Fred Savage sitcom)

I never listen to a word he says. Satirical or otherwise. I find him annoying, and not funny in the least.

I feel the same way about Stein as I do about David Spade.

Two massive wastes of protoplasm!

[yurbud]

21. David Spade serves a valuable function as Ellen Degeneres stunt double

[wookie294]

22. It's understandable NOT to support the troops

Nazi troops were only doing their jobs, too. And they did things like this....

The Red Cross reports that 70% to 90% of the Iraqi prisoners in U.S. custody are INNOCENT....

A former U.S. Army interrogator said 90 percent of the Iraqi prisoners in U.S. custody are innocent...


The U.S. military admits that the evidence against prisoners is justified in only one in four cases....

But the military is torturing these Iraqis everyday....

And the U.S. military is torturing Iraqis TO DEATH....

One soldier's account: "Guys in my unit, particularly the younger guys, would drive by in their Humvee and shatter bottles over the heads of Iraqi civilians passing by. They'd keep a bunch of empty Coke bottles in the Humvee to break over people's heads."

"Mr. Delgado said he had witnessed incidents in which an Army sergeant lashed a group of children with a steel Humvee antenna, and a Marine corporal planted a vicious kick in the chest of a kid about 6 years old. There were many occasions, he said, when soldiers or marines would yell and curse and point their guns at Iraqis who had done nothing wrong."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/050205X.shtml

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Yollam]

27. Blowing your whole wad on your first post?

Was it worth it?


PS - George Bush deliberately allowed those ay-rabs to destroy the WTC.

So who's the traitor now, freepwad?

[Raster]

28. I notice you're not in Iraq. oh, and by the way, goodbye

and you're an asshole.

[Yollam]

29. "make sure we get to talk stupid without punishment" - LOL

Funny, I always thought it was the founding fathers and the constitution that guaranteed our RIGHT to do that.


Who knew blowing away little old ladies in Iraq for Halliburton had something to do with the First Amendment...

[Raster]

31. I tell ya, something must be hittin' a nerve. the riff-raff is getting

thick around here. It's astounding...

[AtomicKitten]

30. In F9-11, the "troops" talked about killing Iraqis to hard rock music

I can understand the revulsion in that light.

[yurbud]

40. If someone is doing something wrong, they can either feel guilty or

blame the victim.

Those guys are a bunch of kids doing what they are told. I can't get too mad at them when Bush, Cheney, Rummy, and all the links in the chain of command above those rocking killers.

[AtomicKitten]

41. My son wouldn't do that.

Funny how the offspring of the alleged culture of life are so disgustingly blood-thirsty, a gross generalization to be sure, but still a pervasive attitude in the military whether genuine or feigned for fear of being perceived a "pussy."

[truthInCO]

37. Finally someone said it

All this "we support the troops" rhetoric was getting hard to keep down. The soldiers know the truth. Don't think you are smarter than all of em.

[newyawker99]

38. Yollam

Per DU copyright rules
please post only four
paragraphs from the
copyrighted news source.


Thank you.


NYer99
DU Moderator