Another Pit Bull Story!!

[peacebaby3]

A pit bull who was recently adopted by a family after wondering onto a construction site may have saved a teen girl from a house fire on Friday.

Jerrica Seals, 17, was already safely out of the house by the time firefighters arrived, the News-Press of Fort Meyers reported.

"She called me screaming," said Leticia Vega, 36, the sister of Seals' boyfriend Javier Garcia, 23, who owns the home. "She said the dog woke her up barking, jumped on the bed and bit her on the leg."

Seals was taken to the hospital for a checkup, but Garcia said she was going to be fine.

<http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/pit_bull_fire;>

You know... those pit bulls are a naturally dangerous breed...that pit bit her! We should get rid of all pit bulls! :sarcasm:

[pwb]

1. mine is a big goof ball

[williesgirl]

2. Thanks for the article - we love our's! She's a sweetie that doubles as

protection.

[demnan]

3. My niece has a pit bull mix

It's a sweet thing for sure.

I don't think the dogs are vicious unless they are taught to be so. If someone has neglected outdoor animals who are chained, underfed and not socialized, this needs to be addressed, no matter what breed they are.

[hlthe2b]

4. I have always argued against "breed-specific" policies...

While I agree that the potential for harm is greater, the larger, more muscular the breed (as well as jaw power & size of mouth), the role of nature versus nurture is not one sided. Pit bulls and pit bull crosses can be wonderful dogs...


Nice story...

[elehhhhna]

65. True. And Montecore was a relaly nice tiger until he

turned Roy's neck into a chewtoy.

[peacebaby3]

5. Thought posting this story was only right since we have lots of stories

about how horrible pits are. I've only met nice pit bulls, but I'm sure that with any large breed, they can be made vicious.

I have chihuahuas and the only person they bite is my husband if he raises his voice when talking to me. They all 3 run over and start biting on his ankles. It is one of the most hilarious things you have ever seen and I secretly love it, but must pretend to scold them. Their little mouths are too small to do any damage, but they love and protect their mom.

[Bonhomme Richard]

6. We had to put our mix Pit Bull down.

Boomer half Lab and half Pit bull. Basically a 80 lb. pit bull. The absolute best dog around people and kids. Very easy going. We only saw the pit bull come out once when he was attacked by 2 stray dogs while we went for a walk. I never saw anything like it.
Great dog and we miss him.

[peacebaby3]

15. I'm sorry for your loss. I have had to do the same with one of mine and it

is so heartbreaking. He's at the Rainbow Bridge.

[classof56]

27. My sweet Lab/Pit Bull mix Cammy left me last year.

She had been my friend, companion and source of unconditional love for 13 years. She never exhibited any of the "classic" Pit behaviors and was absolutely the most gentle, loving pup on the planet (IMHO!). I will never stop missing her, and I still cry for her. Plus she appears to me in my dreams on a regular basis, giving me loves and licks. I wouldn't even think about trying to replace her, and I know she's waiting for me over that Rainbow Bridge. She never saved my life as the dog in this story, but in so many ways she saved my soul.

So sorry to hear your Boomer is gone, but his spirit will always be with you, as will my Cammy dog's.

Blessings.

[seabeyond]

7. right so f* all those kids old people and others that have been mauled

to death. they are irrelevent.

are you friggin serious?

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

9. Are you?

No one said they were irrelevant.

Open your mind and try thinking. Learn about the breed instead of buying into MSM sensationalism. Okay?

[peacebaby3]

10. Don't waste your time with this one. n/t

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

11. I figured as much.

:eyes:

I wish people would realize ignorance is bad in all forms.

[seabeyond]

22. with "this one"

what an ass

[peacebaby3]

29. You should definitely put me on your ignore list. n/t

[seabeyond]

30. i have never felt the need to put anyone on ignore

and i dont now

[seabeyond]

21. dont make assumptions

i have had to learn about the rotweiller and the pit bull. i had three rots across from me and because they got out so much and ran the neighborhood in a pack they eventually disappeared only for the neighbor to replace them with two pits. one doesnt seem so bad, one attacked the other neighbors rot and caused a lot of damage. and my kids sit in the middle

of course it is the people that owns them fault, but i really dont give a shit when it comes to a pitbull grabbing onto my child

i did do research on the rot and pit and i was NOT assured with either breed especially the pit.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

23. You acknowledge they had irresponsible owners.

With responsible owners, they're as safe as one of your so-called "safe" breeds.

I'm not assured you really did research beyond your jackass neighbors, but I'm not going to further pursue this with you, as obviously you're mind is already shut.

[seabeyond]

26. that is NOT true that they are as safe as a safe breed

the rotweiller more a kid and family dog. not the pit. further anything can set them off. time of year, smell,..... that isn't good enough for me. a perfectly friendly well brought up one can be set off.... firstly

secondly, once they are set off they cause an incredible amount of damage beyond the "safe breed".

thirdly.... the pit is incredibly tenacious..... wont let go, stubborn

and seeing that i cannot control a neighbors responsiblity i am at his mercy in the choice of his animal,.... but worse,my children are

[BlooInBloo]

31. You in mind: genius DUers think animals are the moral equivalent...

... of people.

Keeping that in mind makes all of this idiocy make a certain amount of insane immoral sense.

[seabeyond]

33. i am clever enough to know an animal is just that

an animal and is allowed to be exactly that with no more expectation of it. i respect that animal. i dont expect anything else from it. hence, why i dont expect rationality with the animal when it choses to attack. be it a dog or bear or snake or anything else.

that said, re reading your post... lol is a tough one but i think i am understanding what you are saying.

this is what bothers me. my house is real close to this other house. when children go outside to play (not a bad thing) we have had to be concerned for 9 years. on these dog threads i see more compassion for the dog than for a child possibly losing their life. i do not understand that.

people are getting pits because it is the new fad of "manliness" by definition of self in dog. in the process they are putting a lot of lives in danger. and people do everything they can to defend and justify

my brother has two. as soon as they are a little older, we wont be going over to his house. that simple. i have no desire to throw my body in front of a dog to be mauled, to protect my kids.

[BlooInBloo]

36. hm - appears as thought I forgot the "gotta keep" from my subject....

... lol!

[OnceUponTimeOnTheNet]

40. I agree w/ your posts

Sorry you are forced to live with your neighbors choices, that could potentially affect you and your children in a negative manner. This does illus. America is still a free Country for some part. Hence I'm free to keep my guns and ammo at the ready also.

What goes around, comes around.

[seabeyond]

41. lol lol yup...that is true. and i would not be one to tell them, or pass

law that they could not have this dog. i am not that kind of person. i would prefer people thought of the community as a whole before making these decisions, i am also aware that they wont. it is something that i simply must suck up and deal with. and our resolution to the issue if it should ever arise is lock and load.

now, that is truly the sad part to have to be forced to kill an animal i have no desire to kill, but i will have no hestitation at all.

my neighbor whose rotweiller was attacked has already let the guy know,..... "they may both be crazy sons of bitches, but he is just sure he has more guns than the pit owner" (pit owner had house invaded by swat team and took out 53 guns, silencers and machine guns, wink)

bah hhahahah. and i am in the cross fire.

this is even an upper middle class neighborhood. ah well

[MadHound]

69. Do you have anything more than hot air to back your ass up with?

Or are you just repeating, ad nauseum, the same tired lies about pit bulls that have been passed around for years and decades now?

The American Kennel Club recommended American Staffordshire Terriers(pit bulls) as great family dogs for years and decades, still does as a matter of fact<http://www.akc.org/index.cfm?nav_area=homeage> On all of the temperament tests done, pit bulls rank quite high, in fact higher than many dogs that are considered "family friendly" as a matter of common knowledge, like beagles, dachsunds and golden retrievers.<http://www.atts.org/statistics.html> In fact currently, the dog breed that bites the most is the cocker spaniel. Yeah, I know, I know, size is the difference, but not that much of a difference. A few months ago a 10# Pomerian killed a baby in its crib. The CDC has told people for years that it isn't the breed that matters, it is how the dog is raised<http://www.cdc.gov/>. And in fact, this has been recognized in numerous courts of law for years<http://akc.mondosearch.com/cgi-bin/MsmGo.exe?grab_id=0&EXTRA_ARG=SEARCH_BUTTON.X%3D0%00%26SEARCH_BUTTON.Y%3D0&SCOPE=AKC_External&host_id=42&page_id=2042&query=american%20staffordshire%20terrier%20good%20family%20dog[br />Another problem is that a lot of dogs are misidentified as pits. Here, you take the test and see if you can tell the difference, then think of what you would say after being attacked<http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html>
But everytime we see a "vicious dog" thread come up, here you are, trotting out the same tired old lines"they're hair trigger, they cause more damage, they're dangerous" etc. etc. ad nauseum. So it is time for you to put up or shut up. Give me some hard facts and stats to back up your claims. Otherwise all you're engaging in is gratuitously smearing a dog for no other reason than the fact that you've succumbed to the media hysteria of the past couple of decades.

And frankly, if you lived across the road from me, I would bring my pit over to you and let your kids play with her. She's a sweet pup, not a violent bone in her body. All she really wants to do is get pets and lick you(she loves to give our cats bathes too). This way you could see what sweeties pits are, and hopefull change some of those misconceptions you have.

[seabeyond]

39. there is no concern for the child in your post. only the dog

even with your love of the pit, and desire to protect, i tell you about children in danger and there is not a mention of it from you,only about my closed mind. so i ask you.... who has the closed mind. in this situation, even with love of the pit, i would expect a person to say, that is a dangerous situation for children and they should not have to live under that threat. though i want no harm to come to the animals, and am pissed at owners that are not responsible with this animal, a child should not live with htis danger

but there was nothing about the childs life.

[zonkers]

44. Sorry but irresponsible owners and breeding have made these dogs a menace

You are way off. I am a dog lover but a protector of innocent life first. There should be restrictions on owning a killing machine. Maybe if one had to post a ten thousand dollar bond to own this dog or some other type of restriciton, the number of pitbull mallings would go way down.

[elehhhhna]

18. Perhaps they were on fire and the dogs were trying to SAVE them!

geez, seabee.

























lmaO

[seabeyond]

24. i am a "this one" and ignorant....people are being killed by these animals

and they try to glorify them into saviors and i am the "ignorant" one.

i am sure the one saved values and appreciates and is thankful, but i am thinking ALL the ones chewed up, attacked and mauled are not feeling so generously towards the animal. but then i am the "ignorant" one

[flvegan]

47. You said it twice, probably true.

The whole "ignorant one" thing, that is.

[liberalhistorian]

48. They've been mauled by dogs that were

badly treated and/or mishandled, or were specifically trained to be vicious. I've seen vicious, nasty pit bulls and I've seen those who were the sweetest, meekest dogs on earth. And the difference was ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS their owners and the way they were raised/treated. ALWAYS. Some of the nastiest dogs I've encountered, frankly, have been chihauhas. Yippy, yappy, nippy little things that, if they were bigger, would be a real pain in the ass.

[seabeyond]

50. it isnt true that they are always always always mistreated.

and give me a chihauha attack over a pitbll any day. one kick chihauha is gone with a little break of skin, not the same with a pit

[liberalhistorian]

51. Oh, bull, it has everything to do with its owner

and how its raised/treated. I've known labs and retrievers who've been nasty and dangerous, when they're normally wonderful, placid, good-tempered dogs. Why? Because their asshole owners treated them like shit or neglected/abused them.

[petronius]

8. So, this pit prefers to eat children barbecued?

:shrug:

(Just kidding, of course...)

[elehhhhna]

12. You see NO irony in the minor detail that it BIT HER in order to waker her

...do you?


roflmao

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

16. Yeah, but dogs gently bite to get attention.

It's a dog thing, regardless of breed.

[elehhhhna]

17. lol it's a pitbull thing too sometimes.

[liberalhistorian]

49. Wrong, it's a DOG thing,

99% of dogs will bite to get your attention in a crisis, especially if you're at first unresponsive.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

61. If my house was on fire, I would sure hope that one of my pets bit me

and woke me up. We just have cats now, but in the past, I would have welcomed a nip from our Shepherd, Shepherd/Pit Bull, or Pit Bull to wake me up. In fact, I completely expect that from any dog worth anything. As would any reasonable person.

[peacebaby3]

28. My husband had to wake someone during an emergency one time

and the person didn't respond to yelling so he wound up having to knock him out of the bed. If you are desperately trying to wake someone, you do what it takes and since the dog doesn't have the same capabilities we do, he used what he had.

Geez, am I actually having to defend this part of the article?

There are all kinds of dogs, some nice, some not so nice. When I was a child, I was terrorized by a neighbors labs who are well-known as being great dogs for children so I wonder how they became attack dogs??? Could it have been because of the man who raised them???

[elehhhhna]

34. Badnews/badnews? A BlackLab ate that Frenchwoman's face off...

(the face transplant woman).

It was trying to WAKE her.

[peacebaby3]

37. Really? I thought it was Hannibal Lecter. n/t

[Ronnie]

13. Here's my little boy.

He puts himself in timeout when he's been bad: eating pillows, shoes, Daddy's wallet...

[elehhhhna]

19. Here's mine. Wakes me up w/o biting, too.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

25. OMG! He's so cute.

My cats always woke me up by biting as kittens though. Now they let me sleep, except for Ginsberg who wakes me up my licking my eyelids. Yup, that does definitely wake one up.

[Tanuki]

14. A pic of the doggie hero, "Chato", is at this link.

http://www.news-press.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060929/NEWS0110/60929023/1075

Nice story, happy ending. But am I the only one at all concerned that the 17-year-old girl was alseep at her 23-year-old boyfriend's house at 7:00 a.m. the day of the fire?

[elehhhhna]

20. FYI! 17 y/o girls aren't BORN floozies. It's the way their socialized.

someone had to say it.

[ismnotwasm]

32. My daughter is a pit-bull advocate

In the state of California. (she sends me video's of her pit bull playing with the Cat, who loves the pit bull and HATES the mastiff) She understands both sides of the issue. Punitive action against breed specific, and particularly this breed has created a huge black market for fight dogs. A lot of tragedy.

Anybody who hates pit bulls can rejoice. They are being euthanized in the THOUSANDS across the nation, are completely illegal in a least one state, the ones that remain are running into a shortage of responsible owners because of laws being passed, leaving that black hole-- that black market wide open. Check out illegal dog fighting in oh, say Florida. This is NOT the solution, it's a horror.

[peacebaby3]

35. We rescued a pit bull one time who was running down the road

dragging a big chain around her neck. Her companion had just been hit by a car. She was very emaciated. We kept her for a few weeks to get her back somewhat healthy and then brought her to the humane shelter hoping they could find her a home because we were not in a position to keep her at that time. When I turned her over, they told me I had to give her a name so I named her Freedom because she had managed to free herself from some horrible place. I made them promise to call me if they didn't find her a home and I would come back and get her and they agreed. I called 4 days later to check and see how she was doing and they told ne they had put her down. I asked them why and they said because she was a pit bull. I was furious!!! This dog had hurt nobody and was the exact opposite of aggressive. She would cower around people because she had been abused! They need to take the word "humane" from all shelters because they are horrible places and I will never take another animal to one again! I learned my lesson the hard way.

[ismnotwasm]

42. Such a sad story

Here is a bit of a side bar on the issue.
My daughter's fiance is a black man. She is very athletic and works out a lot. She studied breeds that could run with her, that were loyal, and easily trainable. She decided on pit bulls. This is before she knew anything about what was happening. Anyway, she and her SO went down to the local shelter and ran into, let's say resistance to the adoption process. She went later by herself, the adoption went smoothly. (The total story is a little longer)

The situation disgusted her so badly, she started looking into the WHY of the racism, the WHY of the breed specific laws. It goes farther than dog attacks. She didn't like what she found, and she knows many stories like yours. It sparked her activism.

[Tansy_Gold]

45. A happier story

My little pit was the runt of a litter of 12, so when the others were weaned and put outside, she got to stay in the house with her mom and be a house-pet.

I got her when the breeder (a friend) just couldn't afford to keep her any more but wanted her to go to a good home. She came to me at about 7 months and was scared stiff of everything. Wouldn't get out of her bed; I had to carry her outside! It took her a couple days to get used to me, but now she's just a sweet little lover. At 2 years, she's still small for the breed, only about 35 lbs but all muscle.

She greets everyone with the same behavior -- excited barking, followed by exuberant licking, then rolls on her back in abject submission to have her tummy rubbed. Her only aggression comes when she really really really wants to go outside: she runs in berserker circles and puts her mouth around your arm without ever biting down at all.

And you should see her around babies! She might as well be a golden retriever for all the patience she shows with them.

Pit bulls, rottweilers, even bulldogs and German shepherds have all been bred over many generations for specific qualities. A large, muscular dog that's been bred to have an agressive personality, a wide mouth and powerful jaw muscles is going to be much more dangerous if its inherent physical traits are used inappropriately.

But frankly, the same is true of human beings -- a man who is 6' 4" and 280 pounds is going to be much more dangerous if he's angered than a guy who's 5'6" and 120. (Never mind the equalizing power of weapons. . . . )

[dflprincess]

52. My sister-in-law has a lab/pit bull mix

we really don't know her history except there is some indication that there was some abuse in her past. She also had a tendency to cower - but has twice lashed out at people (fortunately, doing no damage). The vet says she does have some fear aggression problems (she actually went after one of his techs - who then got a lecture from the vet for ignoring the dogs body language and looking her right in the eye when she was obviously fearful). The vet has given my sister-in-law some tips on how to deal with the problem, if it doesn't improve, the next step will be to try Prozac. It is possible the dog you left at the humane society showed some of these behaviors and if they didn't have the resources to work with her had no choice but to consider her unadoptable. Even returning her to your care might have left them open to some liability if she had acted out and hurt someone.

I'll have to admit this dog worries me and I'm not entirely comfortable around her (though I try to follow the dog whisperer's advice and reamain calm and assertative around her.) That said, I don't think it's her breed that causes the behavior. Dogs are born wanting only to be part of a pack (even if the pack is humans) and only ask to be treated well. If a dog is mean, it's because a human made them that way.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

54. Fear aggression is common in abused dogs of any breed.

We had an abused shepherd/pit bull mix that also used to cower, if you put your hand over her head where she couldn't see. She lashed out once, but with training, she completely got over it. They should just keep working with the dog. As for lashing out against the vet tech, the way dogs act at the vet is not really indicative of the dog's normal behavior. My aunt had a sheepdog mix that was very sweet around all people and animals outside of the vet/groomers. However, she had a major fear aggression problem at the vet/groomer's office. She bit a few of them and eventually, it was decided that the dog be knocked out for all vet/groomer appointments. Like I said, she was great otherwise, but became uncontrollable & aggressive in that particular situation.

Remaining calm and assertive around her is the best way to handle her. Dogs sense fear and take advantage of it.

I'm sure with work your SIL's dog will come around.

[cynatnite]

38. I used to be scared to death of them...

One came after me when I was a kid.

my sister got one and she brought him to the house. I'm still a little afraid of them...but not that big baby. She named him Scotch.

[zonkers]

43. Pitbulls and rotties injure people and dogs with regularity. Restrictions

regarding their ownership should be considered nationwide. I know one of the pitbull breeds is sweet erwhile the other has that "psycho" switch. My friend rescued one of these psychos and ended up getting bit on the face after owning it for four years.

In any case, it is unfortunate that these are dogs of choice among many assholes and gangbanger types who chose to bred them for meanness and raise them to bring out their edge. As a rottweiller owner for years, I know my guys could have been very different if raised differently.

Bottom line, while many Pits have lovely temperments, owning these dogs take great responsibility. Too much it seems for many. We must protect innocent people and animals.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Warren DeMontague]

53. Nope. But when a dog -any kind of dog- attacks someone, the owner

needs to be held CRIMINALLY responsible.

I'm tired of seeing pictures of the little girl with her face permanently scarred, or the woman who had her nose bitten off (this isn't hyperbole- these are two recent cases from my immediate vicinity) by vicious psycho dogs who got loose, and having the owners go "Oh well, too bad. But blame is immaterial".

Bullshit. People get off on having these crazy-ass dogs, fine. But they need to be held responsible for what the dogs do.

[SammyWinstonJack]

55. My son has a pit bull. She is a sweetheart! A real big baby. He's had

her since she was 8 weeks old. Named her Mia. He also has a long haired Chihuahua, male. He and the pit get along famously.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

56. I once had a full-blooded Lab.

He couldn't help but fetch balls all day. I guess that's just what he was bred to do.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

57. I once had a full-blooded Jack Russell.

He loved to dig. He actually caught a ground-squirrel once. As if he was bred to do so, he scurried through that squirrel's hole and grabbed him.

[ithinkmyliverhurts]

58. I once had a full-blooded Border Collie.

Goodness, he just loved herding our children and guests. I got him some geese and that seemed to help him out quite a bit. He really enjoyed herding things. The geese were a nice outlet.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

59. What's the point of your posts? nt

[ProdigalJunkMail]

66. surely you can't miss the point of this series of posts

dogs ARE bred for traits...physical and personality. But there are some here who believe rots and pits WEREN'T bred for those traits.

sP

OnEdit : no...most dogs were bred...not bread :-)

[seabeyond]

62. and i have a beagle that hops and hunts down birds. find them

often in the yard. tis amazing her stealthness in going after the bird. not a chance i could get her to stop

[zonkers]

60. Pits & Rotts - responsible for 60% of Dog Bite Related Human Deaths - AVMA

The entire JAVMA (Journal of American Vetinarian Association) report is at:

http://www.dogbitelaw.com/breeds-causing-DBRFs.pdf

Here's an exerpt:

In recent years, the dogs responsible for the bulk of the homicides are pit bulls and Rottweilers:

"Studies indicate that pit bull-type dogs were involved in approximately a third of human DBRF (i.e., dog bite related fatalities) reported during the 12-year period from 1981 through1992, and Rottweilers were responsible for about half of human DBRF reported during the 4 years from 1993 through 1996....he data indicate that Rottweilers and pit bull-type dogs accounted for 67% of human DBRF in the United States between 1997 and 1998. It is extremely unlikely that they accounted for anywhere near 60% of dogs in the United States during that same period and, thus, there appears to be a breed-specific problem with fatalities." (Sacks JJ, Sinclair L, Gilchrist J, Golab GC, Lockwood R. Breeds of dogs involved in fatal human attacks in the United States between 1979 and 1998. JAVMA 2000;217:836-840.

Though most dogs and pet owners are good, too many lives have been destroyed by these dogs. Their ownership needs to be restricted.

[flvegan]

68. "pit bull-type"

What is that, exactly? Actually, nevermind. Let's nip it all in the bud and ban the entire Terrier Group and the Working Group (you can find the list at the akc.com site). Since we're being terribly specific here, now with this "type" stuff.

Or, if you really want a can of worms, find out the race and nationality of the folks that owned these particular biters, and just ban them from owning dogs.

I love a "study" that uses such specific terms, such as something being "unlikely" and "there appears to be" but so long as it keeps us all afraid...

[peacebaby3]

63. After reading some of these posts on this thread, I've decided we

shouldn't be worried about our current crazy government or any other thing like global warming taking us out.

Hell, all the "terrorists" have to do is breed some killer dogs! That's right...killer dog's on the loose!!!! I can see the headlines!!!

The neocons can knock off all of us liberals with these killer dogs! You know we would be sympathetic and take them in and then they could kill us while we slept!

They should do this next since the spinach didn't get us all!

Terror, terror, terror all the time.

[nebula]

64. Still dont understand the appeal of pitbulls

Their reputation for viciousness not withstanding,
pitbulls are just plain ugly, scary-looking animals.


Why would anyone want to own such a butt ugly animal.

[ProdigalJunkMail]

67. fine...let people have these dogs

and let other people have dogs and other pets that they want. However, when that pet attacks someone you should get one of two options for the owner : 1) Charged with aggravated assault and battery with intent to kill or in the event of death of the person attacked 2)Charged with Murder in the first degree.

A neighbor's dog bit me TWICE. Just simply because I was walking down the street within 50 feet of 'his' yard. The bites weren't severe. One needed stitches. I filed complaints both times. Nothing was done. Then, a few weeks later, another neighbor had his 4 year old granddaughter bitten by the damned thing. Grandpa got his rifle and ended that dog's reign of terror over our neighborhood...dramatically ended.

ANY dog CAN be a menace. Some dogs are BRED to be.

sP