When Did We Become Such a Violent Nation?

[leftyladyfrommo]

Seems like violence has just become awful lateley. Parents are going to be homeschooling their children just because they are afraid to send them to school.

We have shootings everyday here in Kansas City - most concentrated in one part of town - where the gangbangers and drug people are. But people are always getting caught in drive-by shootings.

And it seems like there are reports of wierd sexual perversions almost everyday, too. Guys caught in internet sex stings. Or people who have killed while being involved in kinky sex stuff.

I think about this and what has happened to us. And I don't think having a shoot from the hip sort of president has helped a bit. Makes it OK to be violent - to torture - to kill. Soldiers become our heroes instead of people fighting for peace. Crooks and liars lead the govt and no one seems to care.

[WinkyDink]

1. Salem Trials, 1642.

[leftyladyfrommo]

2. Well, Kansas City in the 20's and 30's

The days when the mob ruled in New York and Chicago and LA and Kansas City.

We just never seem to learn.

[havocmom]

8. And they scalped the Native peoples before that

Crime DOES go up when there is a member of BFEE in the White House, though.

It is desperation, hopelessness and the philosophy that winning is everything that makes waves of it hit worse than usual.

People with hope, well led by others with good vision, raised with justice, tend to find more peaceful pursuits.

[eallen]

3. Violent crimes are down.

TV and internet just keep you better informed of them.

[leftyladyfrommo]

6. You really believe that?

I don't.

[eallen]

17. Then you should look at the statistics, and read about times past....

Here is the key question: Why would you believe that violent crimes are more prevalent, without first having some statistics in hand as basis for that opinion? Without numbers, you simply have no facts relevant to the issue. Here is a link that has a graph on the US murder rates over the past century:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/hmrt.htm

If you think their numbers are wrong, by all means, go crunch the data, and come back with your own numbers and graphs. But if all you're going on is your impressions from the news you read, hear, and see, that is no more evidence to the issue you raise than the Bible is to biology.

Numbers.

Graphs.

Statistics.

Yeah, they can lie or lead to error. But talking about the prevalence of social features without them isn't even an error. It's just meaningless.

[treestar]

25. Also there is a greater ability to find them

Surely there was much violence in the wild west that never got reported in the media of that era.

Likewise local violence was not reported nationally even up into the 70s, unless it was unusual, like the Manson killings. Now everything that ever happens is reported nationally.

The original poster does what I call "letting the media pull your chain." Letting the MSM define your perspective leads to this kind of thing. The MSM could decide to report something else with the same level of violence going on. If the MSM was reporting on the words of some Muslim, it would be "why are these Muslims so violent?"

Not all homeschooling is due to violence, it has many causes.

[marmar]

10. Actually, that trend came to and end last year.

By Dan Eggen, Washington Post | June 13, 2006

WASHINGTON -- Violent crime in 2005 increased at the highest rate in 15 years, driven in large part by a surge of killings and other attacks in many Midwestern cities, the FBI reported yesterday.

The FBI's preliminary annual crime report showed an overall jump of 2.5 percent for violent offenses, including increases in homicide, robbery, and assault. It was the first rise of any note since 2001, and rape was the only category in which the number of crimes declined.

The rise in violent offenses nationally represents the largest overall crime spike since 1991. Violent crime peaked in 1992, before beginning to plummet to its lowest levels in three decades.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/washington/articles/2006/06/13/violent_crime_rates_spike_in_us/

[eallen]

19. It'll take a few years to know whether that is end or fluctuation.

[marmar]

23. True.

:think:

[tabasco]

28. But you said violent crime is down.

You rebutted the OP for having no statistics.

Then, when presented with statistics that show you are wrong, you say "oh wait a few years." :crazy:

[eallen]

35. What was the question?

The original post wasn't clear, but it seemed to me she wasn't asking about a small rise in violent crimes in 2005.

Violent crime is still significantly off its highs in the 1980s, which (barely) passed the highs of the 1930s.

[leftyladyfrommo]

41. No, I wasn't referring to statistics. I was just referring to the week

we had last week. And the crime we have in Kansas City everyday.

We had two cases of children being kidnapped - one 7 day old from her mother after her mother had her throat cut. Then the other woman in Missouri who killed the mother, ripped her unborn child out, and killed her other 3 children. And the ongoing day to day shootings and killings in our inner city. That is just here.

I was in college when Helter Skelter happened and it absolutely shocked the whole country. I'm not so sure it would shock anyone anymore.

I don't think it is just the media. I grew up in a medium sized city and it just wasn't this violent. Kids in highschool were not dangerous. We had our "hoods" but they didn't carry AK 47s. The worst that happened was a fight after school. It just wasn't the same.

[marmar]

4. This country was born in violence...

The wiping out of Native Americans, all the bloody revolutions...It's always been violent, in many different ways.

[niallmac]

7. Economically and emotionally we seem addicted to 'War'

[Swede]

5. "Rockets red glare,bombs bursting in air"

Not exactly a peace on earth kinda thing.

[Joanne98]

9. 50 years of Hollywood pushing violence, war and police state

COP SHOWS!

[FormerDittoHead]

11. Don't forget westerns...

Where everytime, in the end, the right thing to do was to shoot the bad guy. (or in the case of Kung Fu, beat the crap out of him)

[Joanne98]

38. How could I forget Westerns. We are still suffering from "cowboy"

bullshit.

[leftyladyfrommo]

49. Yes but the good guys were always very moral - wore white hats

did not lie or steal or cheat. They championed the poor and the downtrodden.

The bad guys always lost in the end and good triumphed.

Remember The Lone Ranger and Hopalong, and Zorro? I never missed them on Saturday morning.

[leftyladyfrommo]

12. I don't think that the violence spilled over to the neighborhoods

like it does now.

We certainly had a lot of political corruption during the 50's but I remember feeling pretty safe walking down the street and we had no violence in schools.

Now I don't really feel safe anywhere.

The fear we felt in the 50's came from being afraid of nuclear attack by the Russians - not from inside the country. We certainly lived with a lot of fear even back then.

[acmejack]

13. I watched TV one night last week for the heck of it.

Counted 27 shootings. You need to ask why? Glorification of police, torture and gun violence.

[leftyladyfrommo]

15. Yea - that ole cowboy, gunfighter, macho thing.

It's pretty powerful around here, too.

I had a friend who thought rap music made people violent - just the beat of the music itself. Brings out the beast.

[H2O Man]

14. On page 375

of Malcolm X's autobiography, he quotes Martin Luther King, Jr, who he notes is "the very man whose name symbolizes non-violence here today..."

"Our nation was born in genocide when it embraced the doctrine that the original American, the Indian, was an inferior race. Even before there were large numbers of Negroes on our shores, the scar of racial hatred had already disfigured colonial society. From the sixteenth century forward, blood flowed in battles over racial supremecy. We are perhaps the only nation which has tried as a matter of national policy to wipe out its indigenous population. Moreover, we elevated that tragic experience into a noble crusade. Indeed, even today we have not permitted ourselves to reject or to feel remorse for this shameful episode. Our literature, our films, our drama, our folklore all exalt it.Our children are still taught to respect the violence which reduced a red-skinned people of an earlier culture into a few fragmented groups herded into impoverished reservations."

[leftyladyfrommo]

16. Not many people seemed to think it was wrong.

Not many people really even consider the Indians anymore. They are out of site out of mind, I guess. Except for the ones running the casinos and making a lot of money.

[genie_weenie]

31. That's ridiculous.

Every piece of land on Earth has been fought over. For most of "Civilized" history it was the fertile land areas but if anyone seriously believes the European Colonists were the first to view the people they were fighting against as inferior they need a history lesson.


What was done to the Native Americans was monstrous, just like every war throughout history.

[NewJeffCT]

18. Most nations are violent, but some have moved beyond it

Most nations in the world have violence in their past. It's human nature. Some nations have started to move beyond their violent ways.... I'm guessing that the last 60 years - since the end of WW2 - is the longest stretch of time that neither Germany, France nor England have been at war with one of the other 3.

[VeggieTart]

20. Become?

Some people will say there has always been violence, we just have better coverage now.

[mdmc]

21. 1776

but we were hurtin in America since 1644 or so...

[William Bloode]

22. It's always been violent,

Media sensationalism, and blanket wall to wall coverage has a lot to do with your perception. Crime was much worse. Believe it or not, in this day and time you are far (and i mean far) less likely to be the victim of a violent crime than 100 yrs ago.

These days you just hear more about it because we have so much media access.

[lumberjack_jeff]

24. We may or may not be becoming more violent.

But what is undoubtedly true is that we're being force-fed a steady diet of violence, fear and paranoia by the media.

This diet has displaced civic awareness in our consciousness.

[spooked]

26. The Charles Manson Murders on August 9, 1969 ~ HELTER SKELTER

[leesa]

27. We've always been violent. Our entire economy is based on us being violent

The NRA has us conned into believeing they are about gun rights when they are mearly a lobby for gun sales and the bulk of our economy is based on the sales of war toys around the world. If you sell war toys, you MUST make war to use them up so you can sell more.

Our whole system is geared toward violence to make this system palatable. Wave that flag!

[Benhurst]

29. 1607

[Philosoraptor]

30. day one

[Township75]

32. Making contributions to society isn't quite as sexy as winning a conflict

through physical means according to TV, music, movies, books, ect...

I think one big difference between the US and Europe is that there is a huge emphasis on helping society using one's education to help balance the media's constant blood-lust/violence entertainment.

Education and invention got the US to where it is today, but unfortunately, we have been living off of the work of the previous generation for some time now and will soon dive bomb into a has-been country.

Maybe we the bulk of the US is struggling to even get food, much less a house, like what happened in the 30s people will pull their heads from their asses and realize that a present day unglamorous life of working and focusing on your family is much better than the glamarous life of slacking off and living through the TV.

[Vidar]

33. When haven't we been?

[A wise Man]

34. since the MAYFLOWER

[stella]

36. When the wrong man became president

Bush is on order from God to kill all evil people, my sister actually believe Bush is the right man for the job, she thinks bush can do no wrong because he is a Jesus loving Christian.

[leftyladyfrommo]

50. I think a lot of this comes directly from a very violent president

and vice president. And a sociopath running the party. It has made a real impact on what is considered OK in this society.

[charlyvi]

37. It's tall that Wild West, John Wayne, we're special bullcrap

we're spoon fed from the day we're born.

[leftyladyfrommo]

39. I always hated John Wayne.

I saw a picture of him once at his house and he had on big shorts and flipflops and this big straw hat. He looked ridiculous.

But you are right. We feed our young men that line of bull from the time they are born. I don't think the women buy into that whole thing quite so much.

[mitchum]

40. 1492

[CBGLuthier]

42. I finally watched Gangs of New York last week

Excellent film. work of fiction, of course, but the background history was not fiction.

In addition to the gang violence that went on in the mid 1800's and the native Vs. immigrant fervor that took over, was also the issue of the draft riots.

America's first draft had an out clause. If you had $300 to pay then you didn't have to go.

And many a brave american, native and immigrant fought back against this. The US army and the NY police killed hundreds.

We have always been a violent nation. It is in our pedigree.

But at least once upon a time, we fought back against the injustices that were done to us by an unfair ruling class.

Maybe those were the good old days I am always hearing about.

[leftyladyfrommo]

43. ourse look at the violent gangs we have now?

Maybe it is just the price we pay for a "free" society - not that we are really free.

And I think that some cities were bad but places like the midwest farm communities were like another world. There just wasn't much crime there.

[Jade Fox]

44. It's an upward spiraling phenomenon...

in entertainment and video games.

Exposure to violent images (at least initially) causes one to shut down (numb out) emotionally as a form of self-protections. So the next movie has to be even more violent and shocking to get a response from the audience. As the numbness increases, the stimuli has to increase.

What scares me is the indifference to violence that seems to be increasing in our society, and the numbness in response to it. I never thought I'd live to see the day when people would say things like that they are in favor of torture. I fear we have produced a lot of people who are somewhat emotionally numb and violent.

[Bluerthanblue]

45. since "Dead or ALIVE" talk from the cowboy in chief...

arrogance, selfishness, violence and my way or the highway have been made national 'attitudes'.

I agree with the other posters, we've always had our share of violence, and often swept it under the rug, or justified or minimized it- but today when the pResident struts around with his Act-ititude, he sets the 'subconscious' tone for not only the US, but the world-

and we are all the lesser for it.

[BlooInBloo]

46. Most GENIUS question ever.

[StellaBlue]

47. I'd say

The first African slaves arrived in Virginia, 1619.




Wounded Knee, 1890.

[Greyhound]

48. At least one generation prior to 1620. n/t

[AngryAmish]

51. Your perceptions are not correct

<http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/homicide/hmrt.htm>

As you can see by the graph rates per 100,000 is much lower than in the past 30 years.

The reason is quite simple -- fewer people in the age of offender cohort. What raised crime rates? The baby Boomers did. When there are more folks in the 17-35 year old category (really men because they are the vast majority of murderers) then crime rates were raised. When they all got old then the rates went dowm.

This is an example of observation bias. You hear about more crimes because there is more news than ever before both on cable and the internets.

Are there more tornadoes than ever? No but we know about more because of increased ability to detect them and more media reports on it.