Foley has given the GOP the greatest gift of all

[jmowreader]

That, of course, being the ability to restore America to what it was before George Bush was installed.

I think there are really two Republican Parties. We'll call them the Party of Reagan and Bush, or PRB, and the Party of Eisenhower and Goldwater, or PEG. The PRB is running things now. They're into theocracy for America, runaway government spending, starting wars for no fucking reason and the death of the middle class. The PEG people are working on a new source of alternative energy: they're buying generators, taking the engines off, exhuming old-school small-government conservatives and screwing pulleys to their heads, on the theory that if someone's spinning in their grave that fast we may as well get some good out of it.

The PEG knows three things:

Thing One: the PRB people have to be removed. All of them.
Thing Two: the PRB is full of surface moralists. Once you strip off the quarter-inch-thick shell of piety, you're left with nothing but a pervert.
Thing Three: the PRB can't be removed at the present time. Bush is about five minutes from growing a bushy moustache and declaring himself Generalissimo, just like his hero Josef Stalin did. Once this happens, not even high-level Repukes are safe: Stalin was famous for murdering his top people if he smelled even the faintest hint of unfaithfulness.

During the 2000 recount debacle, Bush is famous for having said that things would be easier if the US was a dictatorship. Bush has no idea how right he was. Unfortunately for The Shrub, in a dictatorship it is easier to get rid of the loose cannons rolling around the deck. After Stalin died, a gentleman named Lavrentij Beriya, who was Stalin's security chief, attempted to take the government for himself. The rest of the high-ranking Sovs had Beriya and his inner circle arrested, taken to Lefortovo Prison, and executed. In America, we don't do this.

What we CAN do, and what the PEG people may in fact BE doing, is a bit of political judo. Here's how it works:

Really serious political junkies on both sides know the PRB contains a lot of people who...how can I put this delicately? There's no way to put it delicately. The PRB contains pederasts, pedophiles, homosexuals and sheep fuckers. Lots of them. Remember Neil Horsley, the guy who may currently be more famous for admitting on the Alan Colmes show that he lost his virginity to a farm animal than for posting the names of doctors who practiced women's healthcare on his website. And also keep in mind that Jeff Gannon, a homosexual prostitute whose day job was being a right-wing "journalist," slept in the Lincoln Bedroom on several occasions. This the PEG can exploit. Representative Foley was just the tip of the iceberg. As the election grows closer, expect more PRB perverts to be unmasked.

Things like Mark Foley's preying on underaged pages play into their hands. To get the PRB out of power, the PEG has to prove that enough PRB members were either (1) sexual deviants and therefore unelectable, or (2) enablers of sexual perversion and therefore unelectable, to put Congress into Democratic hands by at least ten seats in the House and three in the Senate.

The PEG knows the Democratic Party will impeach Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice and Gonzalez, as well as Antonin Scalia. (So far as we know, Roberts and Alito haven't had enough time to commit an impeachable offense.) They further know that a Democratic Congress can stall all of Bush's initiatives, especially concerning war in Iran, until they get them out of there.

Here's a rough outline:

Step 1: unmask enough perverted PRB members, and tie guys like Hastert to them, to throw the election to the Democratic Party.
Step 2: let the Democrats introduce enough damning evidence into the impeachment trials that no sane Republican would ever vote for acquittal. The BFEE goes away.
Step 3: in 2008, the PEG will swiftboat any Republican who really did vote for acquittal during the primary season, and run their own slate of candidates. Their interest is not in eliminating the GOP from American politics, just the ones who destroyed it.
Step 4: allow the Democrats to have the reigns of government during the era of hard choices. They fix the economy with a modicum of help from the sane Republicans.
Step 5: At the same time, they'll do things like close the right-wing think tanks, get the war closed down, disappear Grover Norquist and Ralph Reed, and eliminate the influence of the rapturists. The intent is to reestablish a sane small-government party.

I think this is the only way they'll ever save the Republican Party. If they don't do it, the GOP will go the way of the Whigs or the Bull Moose.

[Demeter]

1. I'd Like To Believe You

But it's too much deus ex machina.

[indepat]

19. I'd like to believe you too, but are that many sane Repugs?

[sweetheart]

2. Man, that is great

I haven't read a good story like that since 'the hobbit.' It was engrossing and funny,
filled with romantic hope for the victory of intelligence and goodwill over stupidity
and ignorance. There is no way to save the republican party.

[ComerPerro]

10. That's because there is not a drop of goodwill or intellegence

among conservatives of ANY label, neocon or paleocon.

[kestrel91316]

3. You're joking, right?

[jmowreader]

5. Not at all

If SOMEONE wasn't trying to overthrow the current Republican regime, the pages would have been called liars or worse. The entire Republican leadership would have gathered around Mark Foley while they fought off the Evil Liberal Media Who Is Trying To Destroy A Good Man. And by kickoff for the Sooners game, the story would have been dead.

That's not what's happening, and it's what makes me suspicious that someone IN the Republican Party is pushing this to the forefront.

Who else could push this so far for so long? It wasn't the Democrats. Democrats don't say anything evil about Republicans; it's in the book.

It wasn't the pages. They're just kids, and someone like Hannity or Limbaugh could kill their story, and their credibility, very quickly just by questioning their veracity. No one here thinks either man is truthful in the least. If Sean Hannity were to walk into the building dripping wet and mention that it's raining outside, there are over 90,000 DUers who would go to the door and look in the parking lot. If Limbaugh were to do the same thing, these same DUers would actually walk out to the street just in case Limbaugh taped a sprinkler to the top of the doorframe. But there are people who think these two are the paragons of truthfulness.

It wasn't the media either. At least I don't think it was. Hmm...and then again...what is it they say about politicians, how the only thing that can kill some of their careers is a dead girl or a live boy in their bed?

I think the few sane elements of the GOP are pushing this as hard as they can, because they HAVE to do something to get rid of Shrub...and a Congress full of Christofascists won't do it for them.

[Demeter]

24. What Makes You Think The Pages Didn't?

This new generation is much more vicious than any previous...I know, my daughter is 19!


on edit; after reflection:


besides, there's only so much the media can sweep under the carpet, and with Bush and Cheney and Rummy and Condi under there already, it's getting kinda crowded.

[VeggieTart]

4. how very idealistic

I wish I could believe that. And I wish I could believe this will destroy the Repugnants as they have become since Reagan took office, but I don't. But as Camryn Manheim said in 2004, Republicans, take back your party.

[niallmac]

6. I need a nice feel good post to drift off to sleep with and yours

will do. Even if none of what you conjure comes true...it should!
I want a PEG dispenser.

[ComerPerro]

9. Why the fuck would you want that? Are you advocating conservatism here?

[niallmac]

13. Am I? Hell I hope not.

After your wake up post I re read the OP and I guess what it boils down to
is I don't really know what the hell the OP is talking about. Crux of the matter.

No. I'm not advocating conservatism. I'm just looking for a way to get rid of
the present nightmare. Maybe replace it with a nightmare I know from the past.

There will always be 'conservatives.' I just want to keep them from running off
and becoming fascists. Your right, you can have my PEG dispenser.

[ComerPerro]

14. LOL. Its just that the RW has been pushing this propaganda for so long

that many DUers have started buying into it, thinking, "well, they have a point, 'true' conservatives won't be as bad as neocons".

And, as a result, from wishful thinking that neocons would go away, we see DUers supporting people like Scarborough and Dobbs and John Dean, obvious conservatives, just because they are desperate for ANYONE who will say ANYTHING negative about Bush.

And so, the pining for "true" conservatives began...



Crazy, eh?

[jmowreader]

22. Scarborough's a neocon

When I think of fiscal conservatives, the only live person that really comes to mind--at least someone anyone's heard of--is Theodore Forstmann. He's an investment banker. If you read any of the books about the RJR Nabisco leveraged buyout ("Barbarians at the Gate" is good), you'll find that Ted Forstmann is the guy who pulled out of the bidding war when he realized a trader who won't use junk bonds--he was one of the few LBO guys who wouldn't--couldn't win the company.

The banking community used to be full of these guys. The insurance industry was. You could probably get the guy running New York Life or Mutual of Omaha and he'd be real good. You get a guy who won't do stupid shit like start an unaffordable war just because some of his friends in the oil industry want Iraq's fields, and you'd be okay.

[jmowreader]

20. What the OP is talking about

There are two forces at work in the GOP: fiscal conservatives and social conservatives. The second group we call neocons.

Fiscal conservatism and social conservatism cannot exist together for a vast number of reasons.

The fiscal conservatives have been out of power for a while, and look what it's gotten us: war, war, war, the world hates us, the national coffers contain naught but dust and IOUs, more war, terra, terra, terra, and now we're so broke not only can't we afford to make sure our veterans go to bed with full stomachs, we can't even afford new bombs to keep up our wars.

You think WE'RE pissed? They're worse.

So I think the fiscal conservatives are starting to take their party back, and they're doing it by disgracing and discrediting the social conservatives.

Pass the popcorn, guys, it's about to get interesting.

[Maven]

7. I stopped reading after you put "homosexuals" among pederasts, pedophiles

and sheep fuckers and then placed all four under the general category "PRB perverts."

Have a nice day.

[jmowreader]

23. I did it for a perfectly good reason

The PRB has managed to convince thirty percent of America that they are the sole harbingers of morality.

To the Falwell/Robertson/Wildmon bund, morality means no drinking, drugs, gambling, abortion, birth control, infidelity, child molestation, homosexuality in any form, and definitely no sheep fucking. And then you look just a bit deeper...

Shrub Bush is probably a drinker and a drug user; he certainly was one before. Pigboy's a known drug user.
Bill Bennett is a gambler.
There's good reason to believe Shrub paid for an abortion. Also, read "The Only Moral Abortion Is My Abortion."
There are no stats on birth control, but you KNOW they use it--and you also know they don't just use Ann Coulter-style BC (would YOU fuck Ann Coulter?) but rather the kinds we like.
Infidelity? Same thing. If you're a woman married to a neocon, I recommend taking a lover NOW--your old man's got a girl in every port.
Child molestation? Representative Foley's only the latest.
Homosexuality? Foley is probably one, Jeff Gannon's definitely one...maybe Pigboy; when he was busted with Viagra in his suitcase, he was on his way back from a Gay Sex Mecca. (The Log Cabin Republicans weren't listed because they're honest.)
And as for sheep fucking, let us recall Neil Horsley's first girlfriend.

While I must roundly condemn pedophilia, pederasty, rape and sheep fucking as things no civilized person should do, I only frown on the rest of the list for right-wingers who want these things banned for everyone except them.

[ComerPerro]

8. Go somewhere else to kiss conservative ass

NeoCons and Conservatives are exactly the same, and there never was and never will be anything grand or noble about "old school" or "true" conservatives...

[demwing]

17. Call Bullshit

Neocons are not the same as standard, run of the mill conservatives.

Neocons are a darker breed, built for war mongering, empire building, and religious intolerance. They are politically evil. Conservatives, on the other hand, are just a politically wrong.

[ComerPerro]

25. You want to know the difference between a Con and a NeoCon?

A NeoCon is a Conservative in power.

A Conservative is a person who is embarassed but still too much of an asshole to realize that Conservatism is a failure.

That's it.


The term "NeoCon" was invented by conservatives to cover their own asses.

[demwing]

26. Look, lets set aside the knee-jerk reaction, ok?

It's clear that you hate (or rather, demonstrably distolerate) conservatives. Your credentials are established.

But you ideas concerning neoconservatives are just wrong.

Rather than go into a very long explanation here, let me just post a link to an excellent Wikipedia article on neoconservativism: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neoconservatism

Read it, and let me know if your opinion changes at all.

[ComerPerro]

27. Prove to me that any of these NeoCons were ever active liberals

and maybe, just maybe, I might open my mind to the idea that this whole myth of "NeoCons" isn't complete RW bullshit.

[demwing]

28. See, the point of opening your mind

is so that you can wrap it around new ideas. Closed minds are as useful as dead minds, and can actually be a source of difficulty for the rest of the thinking world. I don't intend to be mean, but your comments about whether you should open your mind have confounded me. Fanatics have closed minds. Do you truly want to have anything in common with a fanatic?

I shouldn't have to prove anything to you to give you a reason to open your mind. Did you read the Wikipedia article I linked to?

If not, you should. If you did, then you might remember the reference to David Horowitz.

Do I have to prove to you that Horowitz was a former lefty?

[ComerPerro]

29. Open my mind to conservative propaganda?

Are you fucking kidding me?

You want to pine for and lust after "old school" conservatives, fine, go crazy. Just do it somewhere else.

[demwing]

32. No, open your mind to rational thought

and try to understand that you may be mistaken about the nature of neoconservatism, just as you are about my convictions.

I do not hold neconservatism in any high regard. Just the opposite, as my previous post (in which I
referred to the neocons as dark and evil) should have made quite clear.

Also, you asked for the name of just ONE lefty that became a neocon. I gave you such a name - David Horowitz. Yet you gloss over that, and spit out an emotional retort that succeeds only in momentarily switching the emphasis from reason to reaction. What of your claim that you would open your mind? Was that just empty rhetoric?

And as to your suggestion that I "pine" for any type of conservatism... your words seem no more than a pejorative method of hopeful obfuscation. In other words, you know you've erred, but you're unwilling to admit as much. So, to obscure your error you attack me on a personal level.

Spare me the drama. It isn't intimidating at all. I'll think what I like, anywhere I like, and at any damn time I like. If I inadvertently break some rules of this forum, I suspect that the mods will let me know quite swiftly. Until that time, take your melodramatic righteousness and your weak attempt at censorship, and spin on it.

[ComerPerro]

33. I didn't say you were promoting "neoConservatism".

I said that you were, and still are, carrying a torch for Conservatism, treating it like it is some sort of sacred, noble institution...

:puke:

[demwing]

34. Call Bullshit again

Perhaps there's a bit of "The enemy of my enemy is my friend" going on, but I have no misconceptions about old style conservatives.

My posts, and points, were that neoconservatives are not the same as standard conservatives, a concept that you deny. Fine. But how you manage to twist your denial into my presumed "pining" for conservatism is beyond me. You don't seem to be thinking about this at all, just rashly reacting with anger.

Get a grip.

[ComerPerro]

35. you didn't even answer my first challenge

I didn't say "name a neoCon who used to be liberal".

I said fucking prove it.

And you didn't.

Prove it.

[demwing]

36. You want me to prove that David Horowitz used to be a liberal?

Or, more to the point, a radical leftist? Isn't that common knowledge? Just Google it for crying out loud.

AND, all this is beside the point.

Whether someone can prove that Horowitz was once a liberal or not, has zero effect on your claim that neocons are non-different from old school conservatives.

It's a decoy of an argument. Focus.

[ComerPerro]

37. I found thousands of articles saying Horowitz used to be a liberal

problem is, they all use his own words as evidence, and nothing more.

All I have ever seen, as a matter of fact, are references to him having been liberal "because he said so".

I could also "prove" to you that Saddam caused 9/11 and had WMD and was a threat to America, using google and Wikipedia. All I would have to do is post quotes from obviously credible figures like Condi Rice and Colin Powell and Dick Cheney and George W Bush...

Show me some hard evidence of him being a liberal, maybe a public record of him embracing liberal policies and philosphies or something...

Actual proof, not just the testimony of a conservative propagandist hellbent on purging liberals from Universities and colleges.

[demwing]

39. I thought you were kidding, but you're not, are you?

Horowitz once edited Ramparts, a noted lefty mag of the 60's and 70's. He hung with Black Panthers leaders and wrote a few lefty books, the most significant probably being either "Empire and Revolution" or "The Free World Colossus." Both bools are being sold on Amazon, with reviews. Check them out.

That's just the stuff you can find in few seconds of researching. You should try it.

[ComerPerro]

40. Was he comitted to it, or was it just a paycheck?

He strikes me as the kind of guy who would edit "NeoNazi weekly" if it paid enough and was trendy enough,

[demwing]

41. LOL, that certainly the impression he gives now.

But back in the day, he was as leftist as you can get.

But you want me to prove the measure of the man's heart, and I don't believe anyone can do that at anytime.

Hell, there was a time when Ralph Nader appeared to me to be as honest and ethical as a person could get. So much for appearances.

[tomreedtoon]

11. This will have to happen. Democrats won't do it.

My buddy Bartcop (http://www.bartcop.com) has often said that the Republicans who are offended by Bush and Company will have to be the ones to stop him, since the Democrats don't have the courage or the desire for the job.

Looking at what happened this last week with the We Love Torture Bill, I begin to agree with him.

In fact, if the "sheep f***ers" in the Republican Party want a little action, all they have to do is drop by the Democratic Caucus. Plenty of mewing ewes there.

[bvar22]

12. George W Bush is the natural evolution of " Conservatism".

Restoring the USA to "pre-bush*" status would do not a fucking bit of good.
Restoring the Democratic Party to "Pre-DLC" condition, and the USA to pre-Reagan status might hold some appeal.
Hell, Bush* is just a sock puppet. Most of today's real Republican psychopaths are Reagan retreads who belonged in jail then. The "W" administration is just the Reagan chickens come home to roost.


The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[ComerPerro]

16. exactly. There are no "true" conservatives

just embarassed conservatives trying to blame Bush on liberalism

[Raksha]

15. Nice fantasy, but I don't think there are enough PEGS to pull it off.

Either they're extinct or they never existed in the first place.

[tblue37]

18. Woodward is the spokesmodel for the powers that be.

When they wanted Cheney and his pet W in power, they had Woodward write glowing books about the regime. Now they are having Woodward put out a book that damages the regime. I think the powers that be want the Cheney administration brought down.

[pauliedangerously]

21. Interesting speculation, but it will never happen

The PRBs and PEGs have a symbiotic relationship, albeit twisted and contradictory. If it weren't for all of the pro-life/jesus loves me rhetoric that emerged in the seventies the Republicans wouldn't have won any Presidential elections in the last 25 years.

[and-justice-for-all]

30. Yes he has...a good reason why repukes need removed..

...From the Hill.

[LSK]

31. a FREE seat to the Dems in Congress??? THATS A GIFT?????

:wtf:

[bridgit]

38. "restore America to what it was before George Bush", THAT's going...

to take some creative doing, and i just don't see them with the level of leadership that will be required