lordy!-- does it strike anyone else as odd that there is more outrage...

[mike_c]

...about Foley's sexuality than there was about congress selling out the Constitution last week? Than there is about the illegal war against Iraq? Than there is about all the laws Bushco routinely breaks? And so far, no one has actually accused Foley of (actual) statutory rape. Although I don't doubt that is forthcoming-- someone MUST be talking to lawyers right now-- maybe we should all take a step back and remember how hypocritical and ugly congressional repigs sounded when they made such a fuss about Clinton's sexual escapades. Sure, this is "different," but not that much. Foley will get what's coming to him-- not the least of which is just being himself, in his own eyes. In the meantime the world is still blowing up because of U.S. foreign policy and the scam war on terror.

[malaise]

1. Aren't they connected

Won't Dems win more seats if the Foleygate levies break?

[nam78_two]

8. hopefully-but there is a whole month between now and the elections

God knows what the overlords have up their sleeves...

[Danascot]

25. Lies, corruption, perversion

of the constitution and the Geneva convetion ... nobody raises an eyebrow. But sex, hot damn, now that's news!

You're right of course, if Foley puts us over the top and helps us take the house, we can start impeachment and investigations of all the crap that's happened over the past 5 years.

[malaise]

39. I disagree with you

Many of us followed the entire House and Senate debates and more than a few people were beaten, broken and in tears by Thread 11.
Now we have Foley and Woodward helping the election cause and the simple truth is that winning matters big time. Foley is a gift and people are digging for more conections. They've already found a donation from Foley to Reynolds of $100,000 and the Rethug leadership has put on contradictory statements which only helps Dems. I just heard Harry Reid's statement and Polosi spoke earlier.

Dems must grab this and run - this is about seats and exposing this culture of corruption. If it takes sex to bring them down, I'll take it. Most peeps across the globe will settle for 'By any means necessary' at this point in time. The destruction of a 900 year old law cannot be overturned without an electoral victory.

[C_U_L8R]

47. torture and pedophilia are connected too

seems it's a common republican theme

[malaise]

52. Yep

It's all connected.

[Jo March]

2. Some things, like war and torture, are too large and too nebulous

for many Americans to understand.

But the majority of Americans have kids - sons, daughters, neices, nephews, grandkids - and they can quite easily picture some pedophile hurting them. It's a possibility that could visit them at their homes.

The media has kept most Americans in the dark about the war and torture but we see television shows about kids in jeopardy all of the time.

I'm not excusing it. I am equally outraged but can't make other folks adjust their "outrage" meter to mine.

[marions ghost]

83. Yes, and in addition, something like this

becomes a place for people to discharge their free-floating anxiety about bigger things. "Protect the children" is much more concrete than "protect the constitution."

I think most people with half a brain do sense that the country is seriously messed up, but they feel powerless to do anything about it. They can't cope with it. It's too big--like you say nebulous--and besides it's somebody else's job. The average person didn't sign on to salvage democracy in America. Agreed, the TV media helps them to avoid paying attention to big picture offenses perpetrated on them by their own government. If they could see a way to DO something concrete...I think more people might try.
What makes this hijacking of our country even more egregious is the way that we are also fed the delusion that we still live in a democracy.

When you yourself are being victimized, it's easier to live in denial. It's easier to respond to the more obvious abuse of children than to realize that you are also a victim.

[Jo March]

86. Yes and it's interesting that folks don't think that they have to

save Democracy. I was taught in Civics class way back in 9th grade that it was the job of every American to protect and defend the Constitution. :shrug:

I can insure that my kids are safe but I've not been able to do anything to protect the Constitution - not while these madmen are shredding it. :cry:

[marions ghost]

90. We take for granted

that our Democracy is strong and functional. We are told from childhood how great it is. "Protect and defend the constitution" to most people means --be ready to fight physical wars....not --"defend the government from criminal insiders." That really shouldn't be our "job" if our democracy is functional.

Not many could have imagined the losses and abuses that we have witnessed in recent years. Even those who recognized that our system is flawed could hardly imagine this dysfunction, this degree of corruption. It's reminiscent of the final phase of ancient Rome all too often these days...with an overlay of Orwellian nightmare.

It is hard for those of us who DO comprehend what is going on to do anything about it. So it's not surprising that those who have even less insight and information to work with, have even less ability to confront it. But I do think that many still have a feeling of unease, of things not working, of distrust. They sense that something is wrong but not how to fix it. And how do we fix it?--Not an easy question for those of us who have paid attention. "You have to start with accountability" said Sherrod Brown on Meet the Press (Ohio Senate Debate) yesterday, in reference to Iraq. I would say that we need to expand that accountability to the whole list of grievances against this administration and congress. And then we need to move way past these criminal abusers.

When you remove the mechanisms that prevent abuses of power and you remove the ways in which the people have access and input --you create oligarchy, which can be seen as tyranny of a powerful group. That is what we are now living under. It has been relatively easy for that to be accomplished in a populace trusting in an illusion of democracy. For example, even progressives had a hard time seeing that the election system has been hijacked. Thankfully they are now getting that at least.

We are in a time of slackwater as people wake up to the awful truth. I am hoping there is a tsunami
behind it. We need an internal cleansing.

[Jo March]

94. The military oath that I took identified enemies correctly:

foreign and domestic. When I repeated that oath, I took it seriously.

Democracies, like many other things, rot from the inside out and very rarely rot from the outside in.

[marions ghost]

98. OK well

people who enter the military may have more of an awareness of civil responsibilities than the average civilian, and obviously the military believes in fighting or taking direct action against transgressors. But people who enter the military are also expected to obey orders from elected and appointed leaders.

When they take an oath to fight enemies 'foreign and domestic'--don't most inductees see that as meaning enemies who might rise up AGAINST the government--NOT perpetrators WITHIN the government itself? Can Americans even imagine such a scenario?

I maintain that most average Americans, military or not, do not have the ability to grasp the full import of the assault on democratic institutions that is currently going on in this country. We just don't have mechanisms and controls strong enough to deal with this degree of hijacking from within. This is far beyond "politics is a dirty business." This is historic. It defies logic. It is an unprecedented nightmare. No wonder people can't get their heads around it, even though they register a certain queasiness at some level.

The average American can't be expected to understand how to reverse this. But anyone who has waked up to the truth can at least voice their objection in some way. That's the least we can do. We don't have to do the bidding of criminals willingly.

This Foley case is a sad commentary on the state of our nation. When you have people in government who have so little sense of social responsibility that they would deflect and cover up the behavior of a sexual predator in congress it says a lot about our society in general. It says a lot about the level of tolerance for predation of any kind by the party in power.

But we have a problem as a society with lack of social responsibility, lack of community, lack of trust. This feeds into the Neocons' Machiavellian vision all too well.

(Not arguing arnheim, just commenting :))

[Jo March]

100. You are too arguing!

;)

Well, rightly or wrongly, I took it to mean Americans who tried to overthrow the Constitution. There's not a line that says, "unless they are the leaders themselves."

I'm sure that I'm in the minority in interpreting it that way. x(

[Canuckistanian]

84. Also too distant and hypothetical

Nobody hears the screams of tortured prisoners in the antiseptic and neatly manicured suburbs.

And losing habeus corpus? Why should I care if I'm not a criminal? It doesn't affect ME, right?

Many Americans can't see any bad scenario coming out of this as long as the TV is saying everything is all right.

[Jo March]

87. You hit the nail on the head

The television is saying that 1) the war is going well and 2) your kids are in danger (too many tv shows have the "kids in danger" themes these days).

Of course, with Foley, I'm wondering how they are going to spin that our kids aren't in danger after we've been conditioned to think that for the last 5 years??

[Canuckistanian]

88. Yup, it's called blowback

This kind of thing reaches every parent on an immediate, personal level.

They wanted outrage? They've got outrage.

[Jo March]

95. Even * said, "they want to hurt your family!"

He was quite adamant about it, mabbing his finger at Matt Lauer, IIRC. :eyes:

This whole thing should transcend politics but it won't, sadly. :(

[uppityperson]

3. yes and no

yes, what is more important? Habeas corpus, dictatorship.
no, people are controlled by their emotions, not their intellect. Also no, this is handleable, more immediate to deal with.

[nam78_two]

4. God yes!

Am not really surprised though....
Typical I would say :eyes:

This is what decades of a Michael Jackson-OJSimpson-Scott Peterson media does I suppose...

[mike_c]

14. bingo....

:toast:

[nam78_two]

22. And John Mark Karr

so I don't miss an important one :P.

:hi:

[SmokingJacket]

5. People can only get their brains around sex.

My husband and I have been saying it'll take a sex scandal to bring these people down. It's a sad commentary...

[Duppers]

15. Sex, indeed.

Demonstrates the predominance of small minds living in this country.

They don't read, they don't think; they only listen to what their authority figures are talking about.

[MannyGoldstein]

6. At This Point...

Of course it's odd. But I'll take any outrage I can get right now.

[Karenina]

19. Those teenies

were young WHITE boys whose purity was compromised!!! :evilgrin:

[Imagevision]

7. The urgency to expose those who covered-up for Foley - Hastert-Boner!

Reynolds for openers. We can't have these people in office.

[Nitrogenica]

9. They have to go, and the time is NOW!

There's not much we can do until we control the House/Senate, our hands on every issue have been tied by them.

[Jcrowley]

10. Yes

Chomsky vs. The Enquirer

What sells

I'm already on to the next Big Event

Maybe "odd" isn't the word

[sandnsea]

11. Not that much???

Whoa. Foley very likely committed a crime. Soliciting minors to engage in sexual activity, even just looking at pornography, is illegal. Doing that online is federal. I'm still gathering the appropriate statutes. If that isn't enough, then this is most certainly sexual harrassment due to his very powerful position and the fact that these KIDS were met in a career oriented position.

I can't believe you are equating this to Clinton.

Having said that, yes it's a damned shame people are more in an uproar over this than our Constitution. But it's like I said the other day, as long as the local courthouse is open for business, nobody is going to be convinced they lost their right to trial. When the law uses the word "alien", you're never going to convince anyone there's a threat to them. When you don't argue issues with the real facts, you're going to lose before you start.

And even though Foley is guilty and others are guilty of not reporting Foley's potential child abuse, which is also a crime, I'm willing to bet they'll all walk on this too. Because some on the left are more worried about homosexuals being offended, others refuse to believe teens can be abused, others are turning it into comedy material, and others are falling into the "they're all the same" trap.

[mike_c]

24. I didn't "equate" Foley and Clinton....

I compared them-- whether you want to admit it or not, there is a common element in their stories, provided by the public who seems more outraged over one person's sexual matters than about misery on a global scale. I for one thought the whole Clinton affair was utterly ridiculous because what Clinton did in bed was nobody else's business. Foley is a bit of another matter, as you suggest, IF there is evidence that he solicited sex from a minor. I don't doubt that such evidence will probably surface. Then he'll go down as he deserves. Otherwise he has been disgraced, lost his seat in Congress, etc. Time to move on to things that actually matter, IMO.

[sandnsea]

33. Wow

I know we don't agree on much, but I'm really shocked by your attitude. This is about a vile individual who preys on kids. Did you read the ABC transcripts? The House leadership knew, had known he was preying on these kids for years, and did NOTHING. Do you have kids? Have they been sexually harrassed by some creep on the job? Have you? This isn't somebody's private affair at all.

As to people relating more to sexual matters than greater human misery, I already agreed that it's pathetic. But people know they can't cure war and poverty and hatred. They can handle one slime bucket who preys on kids though, so that's why they react.

[RestoreGore]

49. Are the parents pressing charges against him?

Bad enough they obviously didn't know what their child was doing on the Internet. The e-mail I read looked like the alleged 16 year old was actually getting into the conversation, when that should have never been if he had been brought up right. Foley needs to be punished according to the law for sure, but I also understand the original post. The fact that there is little to no outrage about our Constitutional rights being abrogated compared to this is a very sad statement indeed about this country.

[sandnsea]

50. Theres 5 so far

So what the one parent decided to do is irrelevant. Pages have been warned about this guy since 2001. This is more than a little email and minimizing it isn't going to make the country suddenly rise up about the torture/habeas bill. They just DON'T GET IT. And like I've said repeatedly, they will NEVER believe there's a trial problem in this country as long as the local courthouse is open and the bill in question says "aliens". Explain it in terms that are consistent with the legislation and reality they see, and maybe they'll rise up.

[Raksha]

72. The 16-year-old kid wasn't getting off on the conversation at all.

He seemed kind of embarrassed. I printed out the transcript but could only stand to read it through once. The kid kept trying to bring the conversation around to neutral topics like food and his lacrosse practice, and Foley kept bringing it back around to sex. I got the definite feeling the kid was only answering those questions to be polite, because Foley was an "authority figure." If it had been another 16-year-old he probably would have told him to fuck off.

[RestoreGore]

105. he shouldn't have been there in the first place n/t

[Tom Joad]

12. Can't blame the war on just the Republicans. or the end of the

constitution (end of habeas corpus). The Iraq war in particular was a bi-partisan effort.

[BuyingThyme]

13. It you're referring to DU, I think there was much more outrage last week.

The Foley outrage is mixed with a lot of other stuff. I don't know what to call the other stuff, but I'm all for it.

[rodeodance]

16. CULT of Corruption!

[newspeak]

109. yes, it's the whole culture of corruption

This Foley incident is the tip of the iceberg. After what this administration has condoned in the way of torture--some seems down right sexually perverted--I shudder to think what else will come out of the woodwork--but the actions that are being initiated are not the actions of a healthy, sane society. Society, as a whole, has become more angry, more fearful, and apparently, more duped. I had the bumper sticker on my car "Those who can make you believe in absurdities, can make you commit atrocities." The more lying, corruption, and other acts of absurdity are exposed, it seems, the more some parts of our society will apologize or explain it away. It's either they are way into denial, or they are as sociopathic as those who are committing the acts.

[rodeodance]

17. I think lots of parents can connect with this issue.

[kestrel91316]

18. This isn't about being gay. And it's not about having an interest

in boys (inside one's own head).

It's about a serial child sexual predator. And hypocrite.

It isn't like you to come to the defense of these hypocrites, mike c.

[nam78_two]

27. Is it really defense?

:shrug:

I totally agree the Foley is slime and should face the consequences of his actions...and I can see why on DU people would be elated at this in the sense that it makes it more likely that the Rethugs go down.

But the media's behavior is inexcusable...They don't talk about the detainee bill at all! How can they be this way? This is complicity to a degree that is really shocking even from this miserable bunch...

[mike_c]

28. oh I'm not defending Foley at all...

Foley has already been disgraced. He might very well end up in prison, especially if anyone comes forward with tales of actual molestation. I just think all this focus on Foley's sexual piccadillos is just as unseemly as the republican focus on Clinton's was. I was VERY critical of the lynch mob that went after Clinton, so I don't especially like seeing dems doing the same thing to Foley. He is getting whatever he deserves-- it's not like he's getting away with anything. Let's move on to more important things, maybe while the repubs are reeling from "Foleygate."

[peacetalksforall]

20. civics or sex - some have chosen .. nt

[babylonsister]

21. I think it's a case of having irrefutable evidence the guy is scum,

and we have hope that something will be done about him and those House repugs in cahoots with him.
So minority party or not, powerless or not, this will go somewhere. That's energizing.

[mike_c]

34. true enough....

eom

[LoZoccolo]

23. The scandal will work to bring down the Republicans...

...the other stuff won't, for now. Might as well hammer them at their weak point.

[Bjorn Against]

26. The issues you mention are certainly extremely important but...

We need a strategy to take these people down. The Foley scandel is huge for a simple reason, everyone can understand. People have a much harder time wrapping their head around the torture bill because they do not want to believe this country could do such things.

It should not surprise us however that people who believe they should have the right to torture would also have no problem covering up for a sexual predator. These people are evil, and the Foley case exposes their evil in a way everyone can wrap their head around. If we push on this case there will be more Republicans resigning in the disgrace, and we will cost them the House.

Once that happens we will have far better success at pushing to repeal the torture bill, and investigate Bush for all his other crimes.

It is all a matter of priorities, and while I admit it does seem a little sad the Foley case has to be a top priority right now because it has more potential to damage the Republicans than any other scandal out their right now. Believe me I am ready to jump on those other cases again just as soon as justice has been served to the GOP leadership.

[mike_c]

31. but that is EXACTLY the way the repigs thought about Clinton...

...and Monica Lewinsky. Going after his sex life was a means to an end. I STILL think that's unseemly.

[sandnsea]

40. Mike - Clinton and Monica were LEGAL

Foley preying on kids is NOT. Foley was doing this for years and years. How many kids? What else was he doing? Why wasn't this abuse of children reported to the authorities? Who all knew and not only didn't report it, but helped cover it up? Were the $100,000 contributions actually bribes?

It's WAY different. It's the same as any other ILLEGAL corruption in Congress. It's more than politics, it's our responsibility to get these slime buckets Out Of There.

[glitch]

96. THANK YOU. It's preying on kids and sexual harassment in work place

that republicans can't see the difference between this and a consensual affair between adults is truly the root of their many problems.

No empathy, no rights for others, no boundaries, these are all manifestations of their same core corruption. Child labor, forced abortions, sex slavery, no habeas corpus, torture is good, pedophilia are all part of the same pathology. But most of their crimes can be abstracted to somebody else's problem.

Not this one.

This is one that even the dimmest among us can understand and react to because every parent fears it.

[Warren DeMontague]

43. It's not "unseemly" if the GOP house leadership BROKE THE LAW.

Monica and Bill didn't commit a crime. They were both adults. While the GOP would like to pass laws making adults having non-missionary position sex, for purposes other than procreation, outside of the context of a Christian, heterosexual marriage a crime, it isn't yet.

Meanwhile, depending on what Foley actually did, he may have broken several laws- and the GOP leadership may have known about it for quite some time. If there were kids being molested, and they didn't contact law enforcement, they broke the law.

That's important shit.

[mikelgb]

29. I don't thin kit is more outrage I think it is

that we are cynical enough to realize that the Foley issue will have much better play in the media and catch more 'everyday American' viewers...

[mike_c]

35. dude, your sig line....

Now I have to scub coffee off my monitor and outa my keyboard. :rofl:

[EFerrari]

30. We're wired to protect children, though, aren't we?

Most people don't have a strong "protect the Constitution" impulse. :)

[Raksha]

73. They should have a strong "protect the Constitution" impulse.

It's self-defense at its most basic, but most people just don't see that.

[madmusic]

32. Schadenfreude is non-partisan

Yes, it's a cheap emotion, but politics is cheap.

Besides, without the "victim's rights" and "tough on crime" movement laying the groundwork, we wouldn't have the Constitutional problems we have now.

Face it, Republicans aren't the only ones who think the Bill of Rights suck. Just ask Nancy Grace.

[Pachamama]

36. No, not really...Anything that has to do with Sex in this country gets the

attention....Besides, its hard for the Right Wingers and their cheerleaders to spin this one on how a Congressman who likes minors, keeps America Safe from Terrorism. Torture on the otherhand - hey, they just spin that its keeping us all safe and stupid Amerikans all believe it....

Yeah, well wait till Amerikans figure out that the torture they are approving includes rape of children - including their own....

[NNN0LHI]

37. Foley's sexuality? Clinton's sexual escapades?

Those are the same talking points Newt Gingrich and other Republicans were using on todays morning talk shows.

Man, that shit they spew must sink right in on some folks?

Don

[Imagevision]

38. Hastert's office: No one knew of sexual e-mails - duh!

[Straight Shooter]

41. The Repubs set the foundation with their outrage over the Clenis.

It isn't Foley's sexuality that is causing the great brouhaha; it's the way he expresses it and the attendant coverup by Congressional leaders who strut and boast about being the party of family values.

Since we can't get anyone to give bush a blow job, then we'll just have to settle for Foley's fantasies of a boy's butt bouncing in the air. (You'll know what I mean if you read the IM's.)

[bonito]

42. Yes I was thinking about that today

As I was watching those white streaks in the sky left by jets, what was I thinking?

I don't know, maybe it's in the water. :crazy:

[Maraya1969]

44. Maybe because he is a real person and some people can't understand

that bills are going to affect real people. I know I have to read a lot of these things 3 times before I understand what they are saying so maybe this is just the level that most people are comfortable thinking.

Makes me wonder how we should go about putting a face to the previous and here to come victims of these bills.

[BluePatriot]

45. Our sex-worse-than-violence culture is insane (nt)

[Swamp Rat]

46. The ourage will not be televised

[Joanne98]

48. The constitution is to deep for the sheeple. BUT child molestors

are one of they're favorite things to talk about. Conservatives think child molesters should be put to death. I have half a mind to start demanding the death penalty for Foley just so FOX will have to be "soft on crime".

[laundry_queen]

57. Exactly.

This is something even the sheeple understand. The constitution...not so much.
That said, *here* at DU, I don't see as much outrage over Foley as the Constitution being gutted...the emotions are different, the Foley thing has produced more glee perhaps, simply because we understand that (however unfortunate), THIS is probably what will take them down. Not 'some vague mumbo jumbo consitution crap' (:sarcasm: of course) that the sheeple cannot wrap their small minds around.

[shance]

51. I think it all ties in together. Power, pedophilia, torture,

disappearance of our civil liberties because of their crimes.

[Stinky The Clown]

53. I'm not sure there is ....

..... I think there was more righteous outrage about the torture bill.

I think we're seeing more glee that the reprobate Repubs tripping over their dick (so to speak) with this page thing.

[w4rma]

54. Its because the right-wing supports torture, but *says* they don't support

pedophilia.

So the right-wing has to at least pretend to go after Foley or else their fascade will break further than it has been. The right-wing *has* to say they are going along with Democratic proposals against Foley's actions. That includes the right-wingers in big-media.

[BlooInBloo]

56. For $100,000 republicans will support anything.

[BeHereNow]

58. Apparently, some democrats too.

But seriously, let's get back to FOLEY.
:banghead:
BHN

[BeHereNow]

55. Sad to say..."no."

Without doubt, there has not been a more outrageous
attack on America than the passing of the bill in the history
of the country. It is catastrophic and essentially the
ultimate signal that we have officially slipped into tyranny.

How to explain the focus on Foley rather than
the fact that we are now ruled by a one party
dictatorship enforced by brutality and elimination
of the rule of law and habeus corpus simply
blows my mind...

I can't say the reality of what you have addressed
gives me much hope for our collective future.

BHN:shrug:

[DemReadingDU]

59. sex sells

[deadparrot]

60. I think that both are big news...

but this story (at least, to me) isn't about Foley's sexuality. It's the fact that he's a sexual predator--one who was known (and covered for) by the Republican leadership.

[Jack Rabbit]

61. It should strike us as odd

We live in interesting times, don't we?

[Raine]

62. No, not really

look what happened with Clinton.

[cynatnite]

63. Sex sticks...

(pardon the pun)

[stlsaxman]

64. In a couple months Foley will be acquitted of all charges...

the usa will have invaded Iran, and any dissenters will be in work camps.

why, it's not odd at all- just part of the plan.

[Orangepeel]

65. I think consensual sex between adults and pedophilia are much different

(especially since Clinton wasn't co-chair of a committee to protect women in their twenties from giving blow jobs).

Just because people aren't outraged about outrageous thing "A" doesn't mean they shouldn't be outraged about outrageous thing "B". Anyway, I'll take my outrage where I can get it, since outrage about B might help take down some of the people who are responsible for A.

[Katzenjammer]

112. And Foley's acts and pedophilia are also much different

Pedophiles aren't interested in teenagers. It's the defining characteristic.

[never_get_over_it]

66. Posted this last night

and sort of addresses what you're saying

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2272244&mesg_id=2272244

[Zhade]

67. Odd? No. There are lots of people here who miss the big picture.

(You're definitely NOT one of them.)

[Imagevision]

68. Hastert asks Gonzo to intervene head investigation, that's priceless

Elections 37 days away, it's on Pelosi and the gang to keep Gonzalez straight.

[Pacifist Patriot]

69. I've always found American puritanical obsession with sex to be odd.

Given the unmitigated disaster of Republican governance, it's astounding to me that I've heard Republicans wanting to desert their party affiliation on Election Day because of Foley's exploits.

Hello?! I'm glad you don't want to vote Republican but sheesh, I can give you a damned long laundry list of reasons why you shouldn't have been voting Republican in the first place.

*sigh*

[TayTay]

70. It's not surprising at all.

Congressman accued of writing sexually explicit e-mails to minor in House Page System. Higher-ups knew, but looked the other way.

Please explain the loss of habeas corpus in the same amount of words as used above.

[Katzenjammer]

114. "explain the loss of habeas corpus so briefly"

Easy: if the cops screw up and arrest you, they never have to admit it or let you go again.

[countryjake]

71. Too many think it's a football game...

while rape, murder, and pillaging goes on, under the stands.

[NMMNG]

74. It doesn't strike me as odd at all

Six years later and Rethugs are still fixated on the fact that Clinton got a blow-job, but don't give a darn about all of the heinous stunts Chimpy has pulled. :eyes:

[intheflow]

75. Yes.

That's been bothering me since the Foley thing broke. I just assume it's because our spirits were so broken by the rape of the Constitution we glommed on to Foley as an exercise in faith--of the enduring truth that Republicans will always screw themselves in the end.

Governor Tarkin: Princess Leia, before your execution, you will join me at a ceremony that will make this battle station operational. No star system will dare oppose the Emperor now.

Princess Leia: The more you tighten your grip, Tarkin, the more star systems will slip through your fingers.

[earth mom]

76. I don't quite understand it myself...

since I am still very freaked out about the bill myself.

Maybe it's just that I've gotten very cynical the past few years, because while I think Foley's a total sicko who should do jail time, I just don't think anything will come of it. He'll get a slap on the hand and that's about it. I'd love to be proven wrong though.

Meanwhile...that bill hangs over all of our heads... :scared:

[Individualist]

111. Nor do I

War crimes have been committed. Torture is a war crime, and all who voted for it are war criminals.

But...let's fixate on Foley. :eyes:

[eridani]

77. The reason this is such a big deal is that--

--it can be used as a wedge issue with the rightwing whackjobs who actually like the idea of torturing and spying on evil people like us.

[ScreamingMeemie]

78. I am outraged at the hypcrisy of it all...

As if I should be surprised anymore. :(

I sit here waiting for a retrospective of Clinton's Blow Job to be shown on ABC any evening now. God, we look like fools.

[mmonk]

79. Whether it be the end of our constitution or a sex scandal,

our party in Washington has got to stop being split. There is no reason on planet earth for any of our elected officials to go along with this republican party on anything. If they can unite on this sex scandal, than DO IT and hammer them in the media. But I still want an accounting over the monstrous and dangerous and illegal detainee bill also. And eventually, after the 06 elections, I want any in our party that voted for that bill removed from office and replaced with a different democrat. But right now, I'll take anything that works in removing the republican menace.

[LWolf]

80. Odd? No. Business as usual for DU.

Foley is a republican. He's fair game. Congress selling out the constitution was a bipartisan issue, and puts the party in a bad light.

The Party trumps the constitution.

[Individualist]

102. Sad but true

for far too many here. "The party trumps the constitution."

[sweetheart]

81. its entirely cynical at this point

sex sells, and the public don't like having their underaged children buggered by the republican congress.

Outrage is not what that is, its cold blooded voting, and i expect the republican perverts are gonna have
a real shock come november, even with all the fiddles they have in place to skew the ballot.

[Jcrowley]

82. Hah!

"Circus dogs jump when the trainer cracks the whip, but the really well-trained dog is the one that turns somersaults when there is no whip."
-George Orwell

[lectrobyte]

85. That "rights" and "constitution" bidness is too complicated. Everbody

understands about preverts and 16 year old boys.

[jarnocan]

89. www.worldcantwait.net YOU are right so much worse has

happened, Bush is above the law, we have no rights to verifiable elections. It isn't going to just get better without people taking to the streets. Petitions and phone calls,aren't enough.
www.worldcantwait.net

[Lydia Leftcoast]

91. It's certainly verrrrry interesting, but not unprecedented

Bob Packwood deserved to be kicked out of the Senate for his part in writing the 1986 tax "reform," which took away middle-class tax breaks to benefit specific corporations, but he became a national joke and lost his Senate seat for sexual harassment, not for his far more damaging part in skewing the tax system.

Of all the things that angered me about Bill Clinton, his sexual escapades were the least of it.

Now Congress has allowed Bush to punch holes in the Constitution, and the fuss is all about sending nasty messages to teenagers.

It has occurred to me that someone on the left side of the aisle has realized that Americans have about a twenty-second attention span for Constitutional matters but will rehash sexual scandals for weeks at a time. They have therefore decided to ruin the Republicanites' reputations that way instead of educating the public on the more important issues.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

104. Perhaps that person on the left side of the aisle knows there isn't time

for an education in the more important issues. That is assuming that enough voters would even want to learn. So they used a tried and true American boogie monster to rally the troops?

[Dora]

92. I don't think it's odd. I think it's easier, and unsurprising.

I'm no expert, that's just my unqualified guess.

I've been having my own resistance to news of the destruction of our Constitution. I'm not in denial of what's happening, but there is many an edifying post that I simply could not read (not for lack of trying) because it pained my brain too much to swallow. Gawd, I'm embarrassed to say that - but it's true.

Foley is the "human interest story" of this god-awful farce of a government. :puke: My hope is that this will be the tool with which American voters will remove enough Republicans from power so that Democrats can get to work at ameliorating the damage done.

It is time to unleash the dogs on them all.

[The Count]

93. The "live boy or dead girl" principle in politics....

Nothing supercedes that. Except maybe, Diebold. They could get Foley reelected.

[smoogatz]

97. Whatever it takes.

If the Foley pagemail story is what it takes to flip one or both houses of Congress our way, that's fine with me. It's really about the media--this is a story they can fully grasp, which shows a prominent Republican in an unequivocally negative light, caught with his metaphorical pants down six ways 'til Tuesday (and I'm guessing what we know so far is probably just the tip of the iceberg). There's also a broader coverup, implicating much of the Repiglican House leadership, clearly showing them up for the moralizing hypocrites that they are. It's a MUCH easier story to tell than the one about taking away our rights in order to keep us from being killed by the A-rabs--most Americans would probably come down in favor of not getting killed, if those are the choices. But the pagemail story is about deviant sexual desire and dark secrets and deception, and everybody understands THAT.

[BlueEyedSon]

99. Not really... is Maturgate a distraction????

[Individualist]

101. Not odd, but absolutely disgusting.

[A wise Man]

103. The media is the message

R.Murdock and all his media friends are the cause of why we the people are being short changed in information. Cover any and everything the Dems do and whitewash anything that the repugs do. Keep their base ignorant and stupid and ignore those that recognize truth and decent. We are in a coup'.

[Swede]

106. That's easy to understand.

The same reason you cannot show a woman's breast on a tv,but you can show her being brutally murdered. Violence good,human sexuallity bad.

[bdamomma]

107. not to be funny but sex sells.

[tomreedtoon]

108. mike_c, this is your first lesson in Real Politics.

The Republicans were able to take over America and get lots of people thinking they were moral because of...what? Think hard,now...

That's right! Their "moral war" about Bill Clinton! Not his economic success, spread to every level of society (yeah, you can argue about NAFTA and his corporate support), his international success, his genial leadership. No, it was the sex scandal that killed him - that turned even Democrats against him, and made the way for Bush to take over.

Second question: What has kept the Christian churches fully supportive of Bush, until recently, when his support of torture and his disregard for American lives has become monstrous? The Jeopardy music is playing...

Right again! Bush's "morality!" If a lout like him can be "saved," then all those little people out there can be saved by the same simple process of absolute moral prostration to authority! (As a person raised Catholic, I believe you have to do penance and WORK to be saved, but that's just me.)

Do you understand now? People are't raised to fury, anger and lynching by such intellectual and incomprehensible ideas like "U.S. foreign policy and the scam on terror" or any of the other things people love debating here. You want to move people, get 'em in the crotch or the stomach.

Republicans know this instinctively. The current crop of Democrats want to believe it isn't true. That's why Democrats have been losing.

I say this with the full knowledge that nobody out there - especially people like the current "hot" candidates for President - will never understand, and will lose again in 2006 and 2008.

[kerry-is-my-prez]

110. According to them, anything is ok if it's against Arabs....

[CarbonDate]

113. What's your point?

That we ought to let the Foley thing go and focus on the issues that Americans have clearly demonstrated that they have no interest in?

Fuck that. I want to win.