As far as I'm concerned

[boston bean]

Mark Foley is a pedophile.

Pedophelia is not only the physical attraction as some have said here today and yesterday.

Pedophelia is also the preying on the young who have not yet discovered their sexual identity.

They are easier to mold and damage.

And I am concerned that there are some on this board who cannot make a distintion regarding 18 yo having sex with 16 yo and 52 yo men having sex with 16 yo.

He was grooming those kids, and that my friends is what a pedophile does.

You will never convince me otherwise, sorry. I will not make excuses for some sick perverted man who wants to try and take advantage of young persons mind for their own sexual pleasure.

[KittyWampus]

1. Was the girl who was raped in Iraq a woman or not?

[boston bean]

3. NOT

[uppityperson]

4. Abeer

[Bluerthanblue]

41. she was a child, a girl- I don't give a

shit what anyone uses as the definition of pedophilia- that it ends at puberty- I began puberty at 13- I'd imagine Abeer had begun her periods as well, but screw the semantics- she was a young, defenseless child, and a victim of the worst of human 'kind'-
Along with her family.

Her life and death haunt my nightmares- I have some understanding of what she endured, and I'm enraged by those who discount the vileness of Foley based on the 'post-pubescent' label-

so much for my desire to find compassion- eh???-
I'm so weary of the sorrow and violence that is life.


Abeer will never know the terror, pain and suffering she faced- ever again.
small comfort

[Redstone]

2. I don't think ANYONE here is going to make any excuses. But it's funny

how the "family values" rightwingers are falling all over themselves to make excuses for that perverted son of a bitch.

Redstone

[boston bean]

5. I agree, but we all say Monica was a willing adult..

Some say that this isn't pedophelia. What is it then??

[Redstone]

18. Monica was not sixteen fucking years old. End of discussion.

Redstone

[boston bean]

20. No shit, she wasn't sixteen yeards old, we agree.

these boys are 15 and 16. You agree then there is a difference.

Why would you want to say this isn't pedophelia then.

[Redstone]

28. Now, just a cotton-pickin' minute! WHERE did I say this wasn't pedophelia?

I think we have a serious mixup in communications here.

Redstone

[boston bean]

30. We must then....I APOLOGIZE, Really!! so sorry

:pals:

[Redstone]

31. Hey, that's why I didn't get ugly with you. A simple miscommunication.

It happens, even among friends. Not a problem.

Redstone

[tridim]

6. I know what you're saying, but pedophilia has a specific definition

Call him a child molester or a sexual predator or a deviant, he's not a pedophile by definition. The word is reserved for people who are attracted to PRE-PUBESCENT children.

Foley might be a pedophile, but I need proof before I'll use the word to describe him.

[boston bean]

7. There is a difference between a child molester and a pedophile,

please educate me.

[yardwork]

8. Pedophilia refers to adolescents as well as pre-pubescents

Check wikipedia for the definition, or post another source. This idea that pedophilia refers only to pre-pubescent children is a Republican talking point. Resist it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia

[boston bean]

10. thanks yard work. everytime I hear this argument

that he's not a "pedophile" I cringe and actually start to get pretty pissed off.

Why are we defending this atrocious behavior.

To say we know a freakin definition of a word.

Well words mean many things to many different people.

Get over it people.

[bananas]

25. Why are they defending it? Take a guess. nt

[tridim]

36. I want an apology from you too.

I have never defended his actions. I'm defending the english language.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

40. Hear Hear!

:toast:

Some of the strawman bullshit that gets thrown around is amazing, ain't it?

[tridim]

35. Where did I defend his behavior?

I'm defending a word, not the man.

I want an apology.

[boston bean]

39. In defending the word,

you appear to be defending the person.

Because most people, who might not be as "smart" as you, think this guy is a pedophile.

And when they hear liberals say he isn't a pedophile, they think we might condone this behavior.

So go ahead, defend the english language but don't expect an apology from me, when it can appear that you are defending it.

When you say it isn't pedophelia, what are people to think.

Most people won't take the time to understand that you are defending the english language or a word.

[tridim]

42. If that makes you happy.

:eyes:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

33. From Wiki:

he APA's Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders 4th edition, Text Revision gives the following as its "Diagnostic criteria for 302.2 Pedophilia"<26> :

* Over a period of at least 6 months, recurrent, intense sexually arousing fantasies, sexual urges, or behaviors involving sexual activity with a prepubescent child or children (generally age 13 years or younger).
* The person has acted on these urges, or the sexual urges or fantasies cause marked distress or interpersonal difficulty.
* The person is at least age 16 years and at least 5 years older than the child or children in Criterion A.

[KittyWampus]

9. You are WRONG. Here is the definition of pedophile

an adult whose primary sexual interest is in children; some professionals make a differentiation between a pedophile, whose sexual partner of choice is a prepubertal child, and a hebephile, who is aroused by adolescents.

YOU want to use the word hebephile... go right ahead and no one will know what the fuck you mean.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

13. Doesn't Much Matter If One Doesn't Know What He Means. It Still Wouldn't

be accurate to use Pedophile. A pedophile is accepted by just about any mainstream professional I can think of as an adult who has sexual interests towards children. On a semantic level some can argue that at 16 one is still a child, but I think it's fairly clear to most what a child means in this sense.

He's still a sick fuck though, any way you look at it.

[moc]

16. My husband is a mental health professional and calls Foley a pedophile.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

19. Doesn't Make Him Accurate.

[moc]

22. Yeah, he works with abused kids.

Has 15 years of experience.

Right.

:eyes:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

26. I Think That's Honorable. But He Is Still Being Quite Loose With His

definition in my opinion.

[moc]

34. I'm sure he'll take your professional opinion under advisement.

:eyes:

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

38. Ehhhh. Don't Care If He Does Or Doesn't. Ain't Really Worth Much Time

arguin about. After all, if he wants to consider that to be the defintion he's entitled. God bless him. I hold a different and probably more widely accepted view of what it means, but to each their own. No real biggie anyway. Lord knows there are much more important things to be spending time on right now than this anyway.

I think that's enough time for me. See ya and god bless!

[tabasco]

37. Says who? That's not the dictionary definition.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pedophile

This doesn't say anything about pre-pubescent.

I wonder who came up with that spin?

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

11. You're Entitled Of Course, But The True Definition Of Pedophilia Disagrees

with you.

I would say he was more of a sexual predator and definitely a sicko, but he simply just isn't a pedophile based on the actual definition of what a pedophile is. At least not based on what has come out so far. For all we know he could in fact be a pedophile as well, but there's no way to know that yet based on what's been released.

As far as what we do know so far, that just simply isn't truly what a pedophile is. You're entitled to think otherwise and hold whatever definition of it you choose, I just doubt collegiate dictionaries are going to include your perception of the definition any time soon is all.

[boston bean]

14. Does the law make this distinction, I think not. So why do

so many find it necessary to appear to be defending this type of activity.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

21. By No Means Am I Defending It. Pretty Pathetic To Say So.

I think he's a complete and utter sick ass scumbag.

I'm just not so sure that most people would consider him to be a pedophile, is all.

[boston bean]

23. Do you realize when you say that, that is "appears" that you

are defending him.

I can only imagine with the average joe schmoe is thinking>

I'll tell you, The guys a Fuckin Pedophile!

So when they hear liberals say he isn't, just so they can say they know the fuckin definition, they are gonna think we condone this shit.

Get it.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

29. I Can See Where You're Coming From Kinda.

I personally don't think anyone would be foolish enough to consider the comments to be a condonation of his acts, and those that would I'd consider to be complete morons anyway.

But what I do agree with is the fact that the accuracy or perception of the definition of the word is the absolute least important aspect of this story, and I couldn't really care less how you or someone else uses it. My apologies for even implying that I cared by being a stickler over the definition. When it comes down to it, I have not a care in the world if someone calls him a pedophile or not. All I know is that he's a fucking piece of shit as are the rest of the GOP scumbags who covered it up. May they all get what they got comin to em.

[Journeyman]

27. The law makes very exacting distinctions. . .

and those distinctions vary depending on which jurisdiction you are in and where and how the incident occurs.

Glenn Greenwald explores this in some depth here: http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/09/gop-house-leadership-and-mark-foley.html#links

But of course, the discussion within this post has nothing to do with legalisms, so any definition someone requires is fully acceptable to them.

[Junkdrawer]

24. "The true definition of"....Wittgenstein is rolling in his grave...

Have you ever read any Wittgenstein? Words derive their meaning from their usage. Words have families of meanings.

One definition of "pedophile" is someone sexually attracted primarily or exclusively to prepubescent or peripubescent children.

Another, more common usage is significantly older adults who are sexually attracted to adolescents below the local age of consent.

And yet we have an positive influx of "DUers" who insist that the first definition I gave is the ONLY one. It is not.

[moc]

12. Thank you.

As I've explained elsewhere, it's the totality of the information regarding this situation that results in calling Foley a pedophile.

He was pursuing a minor.

He had a long history of doing this with many other minors.

There was a 3+ decade age difference between him and his target(s).


Although there is a technical difference between an adult who has a sexual attraction to a pre-pubescent child and an adolescent, the fact is that in common usage, Foley would be referred to as a pedophile by mental health professionals.

You are also entirely correct in pointing out the "grooming" aspect of Foley's behavior.

[pooja]

15. on Friday, Dateline had its latest installment of to catch a predator

Same shit we all hold our kids a little closer for.

[boston bean]

17. That's what I thought too. nt

[helderheid]

32. rec'd