Let them spin

[Patsy Stone]

There is no good news here. There is no positive spin. There is no way that anyone can say anything that will quell the disgust in the minds of the parents of America. This has hit home -- their homes. Rich homes, poor homes, soccer mom homes. No Bush supporter who is a parent will find anything they say will make these events "okay".

The Republican base is finally awake to the fact that their party, the party of torture and spying, the party of gutting the social programs their parents have come to depend on in the golden years, the party of "family values", has crossed that bridge to Nowhereville.

These aren't brown Muslim children or Sudanese babies half a world away, this time some of them were their kids. These kids were PAGES in CONGRESS. This wasn't an event in a failing school in a poor district in another state. This was a case of entrusting our children to their elected representatives in the most hallowed halls in America -- and seeing that trust violated in a felonious manner.

When children are called to battle, it is understood that they will be placed in harm's way, but this is different. There was never any physical or mental danger implied in serving your country as a Congressional page. This is (was?) a position of honor; a reward for grades, intellectual achievement, and social connections. You're supposed to put this on your Harvard application, it's not supposed to put you in therapy.

Mark my words: each time someone comes out and tries to spin this, or compares it to Monicagate, they lose a voter somewhere.

So, let them spin themselves into the ground; this time, each word does irreparable damage.

ed: gram.

[Binka]

1. Tony Snow Calling Them "Naughty" E Mails Was A Huge Blunder

You are so correct, there is NO good here. NONE!

[MissB]

6. I really couldn't believe he said that.

Truly. What an absolute moron. Not even Bush voters are stupid enough to accept that.

[lonestarnot]

7. Oh yes they are!

:rofl:

[Patsy Stone]

8. I hope it's not that bad. :)

I think it would take a missing chromosome to allow anyone to think this is right. That only accounts for about 5% of the Bush voters. The rest are just your garden-variety ignorant.

[lonestarnot]

12. For 30% it is that bad Patsy Stone.

[Patsy Stone]

18. I still think half of the 30% holdouts

aren't evil as much as they are willfully ignorant -- and this will help some of those wizen up. No matter what, there's no way to spin it so it will eventually endear them to the people.

[lonestarnot]

20. On your last point we certainly agree!

[Patsy Stone]

23. You know

I'll take it! :hi:

[lonestarnot]

24. Cool!

:hi:

[11 Bravo]

31. He just denied that he said that ...

during today's White House press briefing. What a lying prick!

[Patsy Stone]

35. It was the first denial out of the box

Ooopsie.

[stepnw1f]

34. I Guess Republicans Think Pedophilia is just "Naughty"

Who would want to vote for people like this?! Great campaign ad!

[npincus]

2. you're so right. Let's see what the Fundies do with this one.

[bryant69]

3. The smart thing to do is condemn the guy and walk away

and keep their mouths shut as much as possible.

That doesn't seem to be the strategy though.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Patsy Stone]

9. The one thing you can always count on

is their bad strategery. At least that's something.

[leftyladyfrommo]

14. One republican strategist I heard yesterday said just that.

Its shoking, its horrible - we need to get to the bottom of this as fast as we can.

[ljm2002]

33. "we need to get to the bottom of this"...

...unfortunate phrasing, that.

:evilgrin:

[pat_k]

4. Denials = Don't think of an Elephant

. . . When they offer direct denials to accusations they are in our frame.

It goes both ways. When Democratic leaders say "We aren't weak on Nat'l Security" or whatever, they are on Fascist turf.

Which is why demanding impeachment would be by FAR the most effective thing they could to do get votes (and redeem the soul of the nation in the process.)

Every possible article of impeachment is an accusation. To every accusation, they will ofter denials. When Democratic leaders start demanding impeachment, those accusations beoome the topic. They can deny all they want, but with their denials they do noting but cause people to think of the Elephant (the possibility/probability that the accusations are true.)

[Patsy Stone]

13. If there's one thing the Democrats need to improve

it's not getting caught in their frame and creating successful frames of their own. I like your plan, and I visualize impeachment daily. What I don't know is how they can get the message out in this day of corporate media and gate-keeping.

[leftyladyfrommo]

15. I read one this morning - Foley was a gay man outed by Democrats

and thus Democrats hate all gay men.

That is pretty sad too.

[newspeak]

32. the hypocrisy is getting tiresome

For over five long years, they've been proclaiming we're the party of family values, we're the party of morality, we're the party of accountability. NOT!!!!!! Most Democrats are for gays-most Democrats don't believe in preying on minors---most Democrats don't go around loudly proclaiming we're the party of morality and family values-we don't have to-"they doth protest too much." Maybe if the Republican Party keeps saying it over and over, and loud enough, their mindless followers won't notice the man behind the curtain. And just maybe, some of their followers will finally get it--it's all a sham!!!!

[Patsy Stone]

36. The fact that Hastert wouldn't answer any questions

has to speak volumes.

[pat_k]

19. 100 citizen lobbyists are worth $100,000 in "professional" lobbyist muscle

. . .as I have posted elsewhere today, and in the past, our Senators and Reps, and their staffers are just people. We can seek meetings with them (http://january6th.org/files/meeting_lautenberg.pdf">Jan 6th example, Alito example).

Links to a couple earlier replies on the subject:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2283155&mesg_id=2283691

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2282473&mesg_id=2282631

[pat_k]

22. Additional point

A visit from a citizen lobbyist is something they rarely see.

It stands out as unique.

We are most effective when we "keep it simple" and boil things down to the most basic moral principles and simple truths. Truths that apply, not just to the current effort, but to the need to stand up and fulfill their oath whenever the institutions and principles we established in our constitutional are under attack.

They think they have the "answers" -- they think they know what we are going to say, and are surprised when we bring something new to the table and challenge them with just one or two simple truths and moral principles. On Alito, they expected "too conservative, won't protect right to choose. . . "

The ONLY thing we focused on was his treasonous promotion of a unitary authoritarian executive. For example, we used an event from the hearing to kick off discussion and questions. The core of "our side" of the dialog centered on this:

When Biden questioned Alito on the extent of executive power, the gist of his question was this:

If the men and women in Congress, as representatives of the people, had passed a resolution that the United States MUST NOT invade Country X, could the President lawfully and constitutionally order an attack on Country X?

For any sane person familiar with our Constitution the answer would be "Absolutely Not!"

Shockingly, Alito asserted that he did not know whether or not the President had such authority: that he would have to wait until he was presented with a specific case to figure it out.

Perhaps Alito actually knows better and is just bending over backwards not to contradict King Bush, but if we take him at his word, his insane assertion that our simplest and most absolute tenets are "open questions" makes him so dangerous that even the most reactionary members would reject him out of hand if his statements ever penetrated their thick skulls.

Today Alito proved himself to be a menace to the sole moral principle on which this country was founded – the principle of consent of the governed. Alito has literally said that he doesn’t know if we are a fascist dictatorship or not. Either that or he’s just lying about what he wants us to be.

It was puzzling that Biden failed to express shock or point out the insanity of Alito's response, but if we proclaim our horror with the force of numbers, we can do more to send this insane man packing than anything that could be said in the hearings.

Finally, it is ALWAYS helpful to make the point that people "out there" are mystified by their repeated failures. That the gap seems to be getting wider and wider. They fail to take action when those actions are obviously moral imperatives to the people "out there." That we need to talk so we can try to understand what they are thinking.

They know they are in a bubble -- describing the attitudes "out there" makes a dent (or at least, the staffer usually looks a little taken aback).

[Patsy Stone]

26. Excellent points

and I agree that they need to hear from us. I'm not shy about letting my opinion be known, and I was also struck by the response, althoughI admit I never showed up in person. I also know that you're right: it's up to us to get the message out. Thanks for all of your work and thoughts on a better direction for action.

:thumbsup:

[pat_k]

28. Opps. Just fixed links to the meeting request samples in previous post.

[me b zola]

5. Yes indeedy! They're digging themselves in deep

The more they spin the more parents are outraged.

[Javaman]

10. One spin I have heard so far and it's pretty desperate...

"they were only emails, it's not like he did anything to that kid..."

Heard that this morning on the local puke tv.

They are shameless bastards.

[Patsy Stone]

16. Aw, it was just a little harmeless fun

I mean, who among us hasn't engaged in sexually explicit messages with a teenager? :eyes:

They just dig themselves in deeper with each word.

[Javaman]

25. I know, it's such a sick justification...

They have no shame.

I have a new freeway blog I want to put up now...

"at least Monica was legal"

[Patsy Stone]

27. Go do it now. :) n/t

[mac56]

11. K & R

nm

[Hidden Stillness]

17. Now They Really Are on the Way Out

First, the official Republican line was that they were "perhaps overly-friendly," but "not sexual," which their corporate media repeated word-for-word Then as people discovered some of the vulgar ones, it was even more of a shock. Then to discover that the media is censoring almost all of them, so they and the Republicans can "characterize" them and those Democrats who call for an investigation, the sense of totally immoral, power-grabbing cover-up and damage control by a corporate/Republican system completely out of control, is spreading.

One former page--the media, at least a little, has finally started TALKING to a few of the kids--said that the teenaged pages all thought of Foley as "weird," and they all knew to try to avoid Foley. That is not only sad, it is disgusting and inexcusable that these kids, too scared to tell anybody, unable to fight back or turn to anyone in authority, could only try to hide from Foley--for how long? Some reports have mentioned that apparently, whole classes of new pages, for years, have been WARNED as part of their orientation, to avoid Foley; warned, by name, about Foley.

An adult male who held all the power, was stalking and harrassing teenagers who--if you will remember what you were like as a teenager--were probably completely intimidated, and may have cried every day after working at the Congress, just to have to be subjected to the filth of Mark Foley again, when nobody would help. I agree with the OP: this one, they are not going to "spin" away. You don't even want your kids around these creepy pricks.

[Patsy Stone]

29. It's the cover up

It's always the cover up. But in this case, what they're covering up is ick factor 12. Also, what's with that "overly-friendly" crap anyway? If Bill was just "overly-friendly" with Monica we'd have all been better off.

[jimshoes]

21. They can't help themselves really

It's their first reaction to any type of accountability question,... spin, lie, deflect, etc... It's second nature for these people having to constantly wipe the shit off the chimp after he steps in it (or falls headlong into it) for so long.

[newspeak]

30. you know, I really don't care if congresscritters are having sex

that's their business, as long as it doesn't affect us. If two consensual adults want to have sex, that's fine. But, to claim your the party of accountability, morals, family values, then apologize for said members of the party for predatory acts against minors--that is appalling, that is the ultimate hypocrisy. Anyone that still buys this BS, needs their heads examined!!!!

[bleever]

37. K&R.

:thumbsup:

[Ellipsis]

38. K&R

Aptly put Ms. Stone.

[NanceGreggs]

39. Brilliantly stated, Patsy Stone!!! K&R!!!

They've finally cornered themselves into a place where there is NO possible exit strategy.

:applause:

[Patsy Stone]

40. Thanks, Nance.

Coming from you, it's high praise indeed.

:yourock: