RE Foley: What are the actual prosecutable crimes?

[Prisoner_Number_Six]

"Being" a pedophile isn't in and of itself a crime (although the ACT of committing pedophilia is). Has the actual sex act ever been consummated? If not, then we still have criminal charges to press, courtesy of Mr. Foley himself, and all the laws he's helped to have enacted over the years of his career. Among the things that can get him quality time in the shower room with Bubba is, at the very least-

-Solicitation of a minor
-Contributing to the corruption of a minor (I know that's not an exact legal term- any idea what I'm going for here?)
-Disgusing himself to commit a crime (using a screen "nym")
-Would using the internet to stalk a victim for sex be some sort of wire fraud?
-I know there are more tangible crimes here. Please help me enumerate them. We need LEGALLY BINDING charges to talk about.

On edit: I did not see TahitiNut's similar thread before I posted this. Perhaps the mods could move this into a subthread of that post?

[xultar]

1. nope we don't need legally binding charges. We need hypocrisy.

That is it.

The party of God and moral values is committing moral crimes against that very God and moral values.

No need for man's laws when breaking Gods laws!

[yellowcanine]

2. Unfortunately there is no charge for disgusting behavior. Actually my

guess is that this goes beyond emails - that at some point Foley acted on some of these fantasies. If he did, it will undoubtedly come out. He resigned really quickly if all that was there was some emails with suggestive language. At the least there is some harder core stuff involved - pictures, maybe? Sending dirty pictures to minors across state lines would get you into some fairly serious federal doo doo. Federal pen time for sure.

[LoZoccolo]

4. He actually resigned when confronted with the chat transcript.

They showed him the emails like Thursday, broke the emails Friday in the middle of the day, then showed him the chat transcript and then he resigned.

[Tesha]

6. Actually, there does seem to be law against disgusting behavior.

> Unfortunately there is no charge for disgusting behavior.

Actually, there does seem to be law against disgusting behavior.
Otherwise, with what crimes would they charge all those perverts
with who get caught in all those Internet sex stings:

"Soliciting a forty-two year old male police officer who is
impersonating a thirteen year old girl"?

Remember, no contact, physical or verbal, actual occurs with
the thirteen year old girl becuase there *ISN'T* any thriteen
year old girl!

But somehow, for ordinary Joes, they're still finding laws that
cover this so I suspect if they *REALLY* want to, they can find
a way to charge Foley. 'Think they really want to?

Tesha

[Bluebear]

3. What are the actual prosecutable crimes? The cover-up for one. nt

[Tesha]

8. I think that's the actual interesting point. Obstruction of Justice...

I think that's the actual interesting point. Obstruction of Justice
charges against everyone else. Anyone who knew about this and didn't
inform the folks responsible for child-protection are probably in
some legal jeopardy.

(And didn't Ken Starr teach us the value of investigating things,
even if they turn out to be pure fishing expeditions?)

Tesha

[napi21]

5. There's no way to know how to answer your question yet.

The Justice Dept. has been asked to open an investigation, and Jeb has asked the Fl. FBI it open an investigation as well, to see if Fl. laws were broken.

This BS has been going on for 5 years, so if either or both open investigations, I'm sure we'll hear a LOT! Other emails, IM's, and maybe evensome people who were harmed by this AH when they were pages, but are now adults! I'm positive that there are many more "boys" involved and this will all be revealed through any investigation!

[MrCoffee]

12. Absolutely. I don't think it's a good idea to convict this asshat in the

court of public opinion. The official investigations need to proceed, and if and when the prosecutors have enough evidence to bring him to trial, let a jury decide.

This coming from someone who hates the jury system. Go figure.

[gatorboy]

7. Can't he be prosecuted with one of the laws he created?

I thought someone has posted a few days ago about a specific law he designed that made it illegal to talk in a sexual nature with someone under the age of 18 online.

[sandnsea]

9. Internet cybersex stalking - federal

I've been sifting through the varying laws. It's been hard because the laws, that make soliciting a minor to engage in online sexual activity, were part of some of the 90's legislation that got overturned by the Supreme Court. I've been trying to figure out if only parts of those laws were overturned, or all of them. And, whether parts of the laws that weren't challenged are in some of the newer laws. It does seem that the age of consent at the federal level is 17. I also don't know how it works when Foley was in Florida or DC, and a juvenile might have been in some other state. A variety of state laws, in addition to any federal law, could come into play.

[LiberalEsto]

10. The $100,000 Reynolds contribution

could be construed as hush money, i.e., a bribe.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

23. B R I B E is right.

and a biggie, at that.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

11. On that "To Catch a Predator" show...

what charges do they level at the perps?

[madmusic]

14. Convictions

Convictions

The Web site documents 86 convictions across the United States attributed to its sting operations, with 33 of these taking place in 2005.<4> Convictions have included disorderly conduct, indecently soliciting a child, attempting to entice a juvenile to travel with intent to engage in sexual act, transporting child pornography, and possession and dissemination of child pornography.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perverted-Justice.com

[madmusic]

18. Judge Finds Rabbi Guilty of Sex Crimes

'A Human Tragedy'as Judge Finds Rabbi Guilty of Sex Crimes, fellow Clergy Saddened by Verdict

By Eric Fingerhut
Washington Jewish Week
September 13, 2006

http://www.washingtonjewishweek.com/main.asp?SectionID=4&SubSectionID=4&ArticleID=5872&TM=529.936

A local rabbi's reaction to a hidden camera sting of online sexual predators was a key factor in the guilty verdict handed down last week.

Alexandria U.S. District Court Judge James Cacheris found David Kaye guilty of "coercion and enticement" and travel with intent to engage in illicit sexual contact with a minor.

Sentencing will take place Dec. 1. The Rockville rabbi, who has been in jail since his indictment in May, faces a mandatory minimum sentence of five years in prison and a maximum of 60 years.

more: http://www.bishop-accountability.org/news2006/09_10/2006_09_13_Fingerhut_AHuman.htm

[Oilwellian]

13. Greenwald touches on the illegality

But under the so-called "Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act of 2006" (of which Foley was a co-sponsor), along with 18 U.S.C. 2251, discussion or solicitation of sexual acts between Foley and any "minor" under the age of 18 would appear to be a criminal offense (see Adam Walsh Act, Sec. 111(14) ("MINOR.--The term 'minor' means an individual who has not attained the age of 18 years") and 18 U.S.C. Sec. 2256 (1) (“'minor' means any person under the age of eighteen years").

http://glenngreenwald.blogspot.com/2006/09/gop-house-leadership-and-mark-foley.html

Links to U.S.C. decisions included in Greenwald's blog entry.

On Edit: Further down in Greenwald's piece, he says the following:

UPDATE III: One last point: just this year, Republicans drew the line of age of consent at 18 when, with overwhelming support, they enacted the "Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act of 2006," which the President signed into law (with Mark Foley standing behind him). By definition, then, they consider the acts in which Foley apparently engaged to be criminal. They even enhanced the penalties for this conduct. For those purposes, it doesn't really matter what states have designated as the age of consent because House Republicans have declared it to be a federal crime to solicit or discuss sexual acts with someone under the age of 18.

[marions ghost]

15. it makes sense

to discuss legally binding charges certainly.

But considering how the law works, the perceptions of a moral transgression may be just as critical as the strict letter of the law in prosecuting those who are in positions of social responsibility.

[madmusic]

20. Exactly. No need to "frame" this.

Most reports don't mention "pedophile" at all, but there is still no way for the Right to frame and spin this. Even if Foley didn't break any laws, their ship is sinking.

[El Fuego]

16. The crime would be sending sexually explicit material to a minor

But, according to the newspaper the content of the emails doesn't rise to the level that which would normally be prosecuted.

[seemslikeadream]

17. "I would drive a few miles for a hot stud like you,"

http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/2006/10/emails_show_fol.html

In addition to explicit sexual language, former Congressman Mark Foley's Internet messages also include repeated efforts to get the underage recipient to rendezvous with him at night.

"I would drive a few miles for a hot stud like you," Foley said in one message obtained by ABC News

The FBI says it has opened a "preliminary investigation" of Foley's e-mails. Federal law enforcement officials say attempts by Foley to meet in person could constitute the necessary evidence for a federal charge of "soliciting for sex" with a minor on the Internet.


In another message, Foley, using the screen name Maf54, appears to describe having been together with the teen in San Diego.

Maf54: I miss you lots since san diego.
Teen: ya I cant wait til dc
Maf54:
Teen: did you pick a night for dinner
Maf54: not yet…but likely Friday
Teen: ok…ill plan for Friday then
Maf54: that will be fun



http://cfn13.com/StoryHeadline.aspx?id=19021
too graphic for broadcast networks to mention or even quote.

[yellowcanine]

24. My Gawd. What will we tell the children?

[madmusic]

21. sexually explicit usually mean porn n/t

If these laws can ever work as deterrent, the crimes and penalties should be very clear. Maybe the government should start a widespread campaign so we can all understand them. Cybercrime of all kinds is new and changes everyday.

[malaise]

19. He had dinner with one of them

and then continued to solicit on line. He is in deep trouble.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/theblotter/

[yellowcanine]

22. Maybe someone should tell Foley that alcohal rehab isn't going to

do anything to change his predeliction for hot young male butts. Just sayin' - seems like a waste of time and money to me.