Torture, Habeas Corpus, and the US.

[demgurl]

For years people have migrated to the US. They had dreams of a better life than any other nation could possibly offer. They knew they could start out a pauper but with hard work they could have the furnishings of a king. We asked for the worst of the worst (tired, hungry, poor) just so they could find something they never imagined.

We have been a leader in the world. We have held ourselves up so that others may follow our righteous path. The US has guided people when they have strayed and put restrictions on nations when they do not treat their people as we treat our own. We were the best.

With all of this in mind, a great sadness has descended upon me. I have seen the Abu Gharib photos and know that the actions of our men and women were not fraternity pranks in any sense of the word. I have heard Barbara Boxer say that she was so sickened by the photos, shared with Congress, that she had to leave the room because of her churning stomach.

Up until now the administration has denied torture. Now they are passing a bill that states that no one is responsible for any torture that may have (or will happen) happened and that the bill is retroactive. The very act itself proves that we torture. Why would we need such a bill if we were not committing the crime of torture? If we do not protest this bill then we as a silent nation are providing our consent. Did you hear that? If we do not raise hell, we are giving our OK to torture!

When I ask people why we invaded Iraq one of the reasons that inevitably come up is that Saddam had torture rooms. Saddam was a mad man and because he tortured people he needed to be removed. I have never heard one person claim Saddam's torture was OK. The world has watched us and they, along with human rights groups, have claimed that we torture. Torture is for other countries. Torture is for governments who do not give rights to anyone. If we say torture is OK for some then it may be a small jump to OK it for others. Torture is never justified in any manner.

What could be worse than torture? Taking away a person's right to habeas corpus. This allows us to keep these people and torture them without giving them any legal rights whatsoever. What we are saying is that these people are so bad that we can lock them up forever without a trial or any proof against them!!! Jeepers, even the Nazi criminals got a trail. Are we saying that these people are worse than the Nazis?

Let me repeat the above phrase: Even the Nazis got trials.

Let me repeat that again: Even the Nazis got trials!

Everyone knew the Nazis were guilty but we all managed to give them trials! What is wrong with this picture????????

Trials give dignity to the defendants but it also gives dignity to our country and the people it represents. We are a civilized society. People are now referring to us as heathens.

We need to stay strong in our traditions. Our wonderful legacy is one where other countries would strive to rise to our level. They looked up to us and what could be. Our past legacy has never been one where we look for the lowest common denominator and quickly sink. The time has come and we are at a fork in the road. We must make a choice as to what type of country we want to be. Will we chose to be associated with other human rights violators or will we say enough is enough and find our way back to our former glory?

IF WE STAY SILENT WE ARE GIVING THEM OUR CONSENT. WE MUST SPEAK OUT.

[valerief]

1. Habeas Corpus? What's that? Is that something other countries have? nt

[ananda]

2. alternte thought

I always figured that the USA took in the poor and the desperate because they would live anywhere and work for anything. It's not -exactly- slave labor, but very close. That's why Houston and Texas do not want to make laws against immigrants too harsh or restrictive... but the feds and the national legislators are pushing hard for serious anti-immigrant law-enforcement policies around here. I'd say it's a no-win situtation on -all- sides.

[demgurl]

3. That was only to illustrate....

how well everyone once thought of us. We were held up as the beacon of light to guide the world in what was right. Now we are the laughing stock of the world.

But just to stay on point, if torture was not right for Saddam then it is not right for us. Gee, now there is something I never thought I would say. Now we are in Saddam's category!!!! Holy cow.