This is really what those kids are saying/ thinking in Baghdad.

[Joe for Clark]

right now. Those kids watched those "Iraqi soldiers" train a lot of there first deployments.


Friction with Iraqi police frustrates Fort Lewis troops

SEAN COCKERHAM; The News Tribune
Published: October 1st, 2006 01:00 AM

BAGHDAD, iraq – Fort Lewis soldiers know they can’t be responsible for neighborhood security in Baghdad forever. Commanders say the war hinges on whether Iraqis do it themselves.
Iraqi police, in Baghdad at least, are part of the problem, they say: The police lack motivation and have been infiltrated by Shiite militia death squads that are helping to tear the country apart.

“The police are bad. They don’t have the trust of the people,” said Capt. Matt Pike of Lacey. “We have to get to the point where the average citizen in Ghazaliyah is willing to stop a police patrol and say, ‘Hey, check this out.’”

Soldiers from the Fort Lewis-based 1st Battalion of the 23rd Infantry Regiment operate in the Baghdad neighborhoods of Ghazaliyah and Shula. They spend a lot of time worrying about corrupt cops in both areas.

****

Look, those kids ate mess with those Iraqi trainees - they know a lot. They know just how many showed up to just get paychecks in a place with 40 or more percent unemployment - they know so much.

They are good kids, and they don't deserve this shit.

Joe

[razors edge]

1. Oh yeah

the grunts know the score, the officers are only concerned about their future promotions, of the four thousand deserters how many are the guys sending the enlisted on patrol?

[Joe for Clark]

2. The officer corps of United States is going to stand up.

I always knew they would.

Maybe I don't understand you.

Dude, I TRIED my best to get my NCO kid to go CO - really. My family is military - I understand the consequences very well. There is no way he would do it. I was so sorry, but at the same time proud of him. Very proud. He gave his word and he was going to keep it - even though he knew the mission was FUBAR -

It is really difficult for anyone to keep such a word when they know the missions were so fubar.

Yeah, I am very proud of the kid - and so sorry I didn't listen better to people that knew war with more than an "armchair" passing. Including me.

Those kids aren't going over the wall - maybe they should - but they aren't.

Joe

[razors edge]

5. I would have finished what I started too,

and I don't blame the grunts at all, been there done that, as a matter of fact I have more respect for the grunts than the officers that lead them as they join for completely different reasons. Like many, mine was financial.

Past the level of 0-4 or 0-5, they are mostly concerned about where their long term payoff will come from. A little fraud hear for X company and I'm set with a cushy job when I resign my commission.

I referenced 4000 going UA because I read it here somewhere I think, most were going to Ireland or something like that.

Glad to hear your's is safe, and I would be proud of mine too, especially if they were smart enough to understand the situation and still hold up the bargain they made.

My concern isn't the non coms, they keep the whole crowd working together without the need for such bullshit as parade and pomp. and as your OP says the command is already shifting responsibility to the Iraqis, they more or less have to don't they, as there is nothing else command can do except take the blame themselves and that ain't gonna happen.

[Joe for Clark]

6. I have this belief - if you take the mid grade officers and

down - to the lowliest private - they are of the same mind.

I understand why they can't say so in a uniform - maybe we need to understand that as a society.

Doesn't make it less true.

My kid is a grunt. My brothers were, too. My parents weren't, nor my uncles. And I have no doubt, WHAT-SO-EVER that they would say the same.

Those officers are going to do the right thing. They are American officers. The best in the world -I know for a fact.

By the way - I only know Troy doesn't appear as a casualty - we haven't heard from him for some time.

I appreciate your sentiment.

Joe

[razors edge]

7. I hope they come around

before they retire, it doesn't mean nearly as much then to the overall truth.

here's pulling for you and your's. :patriot:

[Joe for Clark]

8. Thank you about Troy.

They are with us. I know they are.

I don't know if I really trust the general officers so much, but the rest are.

And probably most of the general officers are too.

Joe

[razors edge]

9. I was for clark in 04 too.

as a marine fighter aircraft mechanic, I got to know the junior officers a little and when I found out the marine fighter jocks had to spend one year out of every four as a ground officer, I was somewhat surprised, the idea was so they would be familiar with the guys on the ground and have more reason to give the support needed from the air to keep them alive.

The marines, at least in peace time, always performed their own mess duty, I did twice, and that was so we were capable to take care of our own as well. No hali burger addiction.

I don't know what branch Troy is in but I do know this, there are plenty of marines there, and they won't leave anyone under supplied, unprotected, or left behind.

[Bigmack]

3. How can we expect the Iraqis..

to trust the cops?

A huge percent of US citizens don't trust our cops!.... and the vast majority of ours are actually trustworthy.

Add that to the fact that any Iraqi who has been trained by the US appears tainted to the Iraqis, and then the death squads....

I can't decide what to call it.... civil war or simply chaos.

[Joe for Clark]

4. It is a civil war. Really.

It has been for some months.

And its not that the Iraqis are so inept - they don't have a choice here. I feel bad for them, really.

Here is what I know - My kid was deployed two times in Mosul before they scrambled him to Baghdad now. You know what was going on? - The "bad guys" - they'd kill people and leave the mangled bodies on busy street corners as a warning to the people there - everyday. It was a warning to them - so after some time of this happening, everyday, they got the idea they better not screw with these guys.

I watched, literally, as CNN said every thing was ok up in Mosul - and then got to listen to my kid scared to death - that these assholes had just "vaporized" some girl trying to get lunch at the mess tent. The kid got nailed a few times trying to get back north from Samara from some deployment -

Fear is just different when its coming out of your kids mouth, you know??

And I grew up hearing such stories.

Joe