Violence against teenage girls

[undeterred]

It is impossible for women and girls to understand this. The effects of this violence in the schools during the last week - at least 4 teenage girls killed - will be deep for anyone close to them. It will affect girls of that age who didn't even know them. I remember finding out that men raped and harmed women when I was a teenager and being overwhelmed with the mystery of it... why are men so angry? Why do they hate women? What is this really about?

I learned as a young adult that this violence affects men too. When I was in college my boyfriends teenage sister was raped and murdered by a serial killer. It seemed to take the male family members much longer to process their feelings about this... the females had raw anger, but the men had feelings of guilt and helplessness. Their sadness was profound.

The rape/murder of a teenage girl I never even met affected my life for years. I can only imagine how many ripples of pain are going out around the loss of all these young women right now, for everyone in their lives.

[FloridaPat]

1. This is the untold story of most of the school shootings. Some jerk

tries to get even because his girl friend broke up with him. The violence seems to get worse as women get more rights and demands. These last two killers are beyond belief. Why can't these coward just take their own lives and leave others alone.

[Annces]

2. What we see at an early age has an especially

deep impact on us. Not to excuse what happened, but whatever happened to this guy, happened when he was a child too.

[smirkymonkey]

3. It's getting worse and worse.

I am so disgusted with all the violence toward women these days. A lot of it doesn't make national news, but every day you hear about crimes committed against women for no other reason than that they are women.

I find it difficult to like or trust men anymore. I see so few examples of goodness.

[NorCalDem]

4. My hope is that this kind of violence against women is actually declining

whereas news coverage is increasing (due to these stories being ratings grabbers). I'm not saying the statistics support this, I don't know what they are, but I HOPE that this is true. Who knows though, i'm sorry...

edited to add: sorry for my choice of the word "grabbers", I probably should have chosen a different word. No pun intended :D

[undeterred]

5. I don't think its decreasing

and prosecution rates for rape are still very low.

Rape awareness and treatment of victims is generally better than it was 40 years ago, but it still could be better.

[SmokingJacket]

10. Yes, I'd like to see some solid statistics.

When I was in college almost twenty years ago, there were a lot of rapes, even though it was a fairly small school. I now live near a much larger college, yet I never hear about rapes. Is it that there aren't any, or that they aren't reported, or they dont' make the news, or what??

It's hard for me to get a good sense of reality, because media by its nature distorts -- either by not reporting or reporting disproportionately.

My *gut* sense is that things are somewhat better these days. Heck, I'm going to post this and then go look for the numbers!

[SmokingJacket]

16. Sexual assault is DOWN by half since early 90's...

http://www.rainn.org/statistics/index.html

Yep, it peaked at the end of Bush I, right when I was in college. We did all that Take Back the Night stuff, and everyone was enrolled in self-defense courses, and colleges put up those blue lights.

So things have improved -- but obviously we still have a LONG way to go...

[undergroundpanther]

6. Yeah

I find myself ranting at the TV wanting every male to have their dicks rot off.
I really am getting an attitude. I really want to think men are not sick in general and I know they aren't,but dammit I run into these pervert men, too often ,I see them on the bus, the street,I see them at the mall. Once a guy just whipped it out in the food court staring at me there were two other people there both guys, I thought I was gonna have to fight. Well I put my stuff in my satchel,got up,put my knife in my hand,and left ,walking in the main public areas until I got to security office and reported the asshole. Nothing was done.
The security guys laughed I wanted to clobber them.

This attitude of mine is not just out of thin air.I'm getting really pissed at pervert males. I have a small consolation,tho the hormones made in production of plastics and other industrial processes that are in the water, the food ...it is making males become'feminized',maybe that is why viagra sells so well,these days..maybe in time they will lose their weapons by the forces of nature and pollution .Who knows.
Sad for the regular guys who would never hurt a woman.. But poetic justice ,natures revenge,for the perverts who would.

[undeterred]

7. I guess its ok to ask

"what's wrong with men?" Maybe the good ones can help us figure it out.

[michaelpush]

11. "whats wrong with men" heres my take,

Men don't let out emotions like women do, they hold it in and let it build and build until they "explode"...usually in violent ways. Men are more prone to mental illness and violent behavior, due to the aggressive nature we have and the social expectations put on us by other males in order to fit in to a social group. Men tend to have less emotional connection to siblings and peers and will act irrational and dis-connected emotionally. In other words we are "F***ed up". Not all of us though, just enough to make the World a messy place.

[undeterred]

20. When my friends sister was killed

His mother let out a steady stream of rage and blame for the first couple of years. After that, she was able to talk about her daughter without being overwhelmed by emotion. When the killer was finally confronted in court, 25 years later, she gave the victim impact testimony.

The brothers and father did not love her more or less than her mother, but their grieving took much longer and was more complicated.

[philosophie_en_rose]

41. Rape is not about a lack of control.

It's about power. And it's a choice.

[TahitiNut]

47. I'd say that's close.

Men in our society don't generally have the same (amount and type of) "support systems" as women. There're both positives and negatives, as there is with anything, about the availabilty and type of 'support' available. It is very clearly gender-oriented - and it doesn't have to be. Indeed, even my observation that men don't have such support systems can be met with "and whose FAULT is that?" At which point, we immediately get back into the blame game.

"Take it like a man!" (Don't ask for help.)
"Don't be a pussy!" (Be a dick!)
"He's a dick-head!" (Surrounded by babes.)
"Overcompensation for a small penis." (Bigger is not just better - it's the ONLY measure.)
"Men objectify women." (A penis isn't an object?)
"Real men don't cry!" (No - they go on angry rampages if they're "real" men.)
"You kiss a lot of toads before you find a Prince!" (No 'real' woman dreams of an honest peasant.)
"You couldn't satisfy her, huh?" (She's never responsible for her own appetites.)

And my personal favorites - "those not in power can't be called sexists!" and "Men are incapable of knowing that they're sexists."

Social codependency isn't pretty.
Too many 'rescuers' are eager to perpetuate villainy in order to make their role meaningful. Funny thing about that ... they're the same who wear their 'Rescuer' badge everywhere rather than letting "virtue be its own reward." (The really virtuous people are the ones who don't announce what they do at the drop of a hat - who don't need pats on their back for what they do.)

Then ... we have the most crazy-making of all. There are some women who believe they are the only 'authority' on what motivates rape. No man is capable of even offering a valid opinion.

I'll be the first to say, as a man, that I just don't fully comprehend what makes any person, male or female, rape another person, male or female. I can find, within my psyche, the seeds of many appetites and dysfunctions that appear to motivate those in whom they're imbalanced. For years and years, starting in my adolescence, I just didn't comprehend how a guy could "get it up" when the object of his appetites was unwilling, unmotivated, or even hostile. (It was embarassing. I wondered if I was "less of a man" for not meeting the stereotype.) For me, the only 'turn-on' is reciprocal interests. It was years before I felt blessed to have that attitude. (Thank you, Betsy! Fuck yourself, Chris!)

There are support systems available. Healthy ones. Ones that don't rely on finding 'villains' and people to blame. Blame is not the "way out." Never. Ever.

[The2ndWheel]

12. It's the randomness of existence

I also think civilization makes us all crazy, men and women. Just one random guys thought though.

[QuestionAll...]

53. yeah, why the Hell is Viagra selling so well?

wtf is 'up' with that?
how the hell did the population of the earth get so thick with limp dickness?

I find that product so offensive and I'm not even sure why.

maybe I do.
to be a 'real man' you have to have this tiny part of your body, a small stick. just ready any time you need for hours on end? - thanks to meds?

or is it diet/whatever, that makes men go flacid when they shouldn't be just to sell their so called manlihood back to them again.

[AngryAmish]

15. Except for the fact that you are wrong

<http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/glance/rape.htm>

The rate of sexual assault has plummeted since the early 70s. In fact the rate of reporting of sexual assault has risen dramatically. Women are much less likely to be murdered than men.

I don't blame you. Our culture and media emphasize female victimhood for ratings and money. However, statistics are our friend when one is trying to find out the truth.

[undeterred]

21. I hope thats true

I worked as a volunteer for rape victims in Chicago for 7 years in the early eighties. As law enforcement and women became more sensitized to the issue, it seems like there was more reporting. The percentage of prosecutions was absymal, however.

[TahitiNut]

37. It's when people call themselves 'victims' rather than 'survivors'

... that they're more easily manipulated by self-appointed rescuers. Beware. We must define ourselves by our strengths and innate capacity to learn and grow - not as prey and not as predator!

When entrapped in the Villain/Victim/Rescuer melodrama, there is no growth, there is no insight, and there is no sense of community (just foxholes).

[philosophie_en_rose]

42. People heal in different ways. Victim or Survivor: It's their choice.

Calling the healing process melodrama is counterproductive.

Would-be rescuers are not much better, but dismissive 'healthier-than-thous' are worse.

[TahitiNut]

44. Who's "calling the healing process melodrama"???

Any interpretation of what I've said that infers that is seriously and profoundly misguided.

[philosophie_en_rose]

43. People heal in different ways. Victim or Survivor: It's their choice.

Calling the healing process melodrama is counterproductive.

Would-be rescuers are not much better, but dismissive 'healthier-than-thous' are worse.

[QuestionAll...]

54. women are more likely to be murdered/raped

by people close to them or someone they know.

men take their sticks out in the streets. and other countries.

[QuestionAll...]

50. don't despair...

there are so many good people out there. individuals. scared. confused. used.

we really are all the same in many respects, cept for the 1%er reptiles that use us too easily.

[Solly Mack]

8. It's not impossible for us to understand. We know violence done

against any woman or girl anywhere is violence done against us as well. Even those "good girl" embracing women know it deep down...that's why their denial is so great.

I don't live in a society free of misogyny.

[genie_weenie]

9. All men are evil.

It's interesting what comes out after a horrific episode. Those who would chastise others for their generalizations (All Muslims are terrorists) fall into the same trap when they feel their group is threatened.

When it happens to someone else the perpetrators are products of society, have been oppressed or wronged but, when it hits closer to home, well the group responsible has some inherent flaw which affects all the members of said group and all sorts of vitriol are rained down upon the entire group...

[lukasahero]

13. I searched this page for "all men are evil" and found it only in your post

No one has said that. Why try to make it sound like someone did?

[genie_weenie]

14. Direct lines from this thread.

why are men so angry? Why do they hate women? undeterred post 1

I find it difficult to like or trust men anymore smirky monkey post 3

find myself ranting at the TV wanting every male to have their dicks rot off. undergroundpanther post 6

[undeterred]

18. You're quoting verses out of context, at least for mine

Part of the point of my post (OP) was to mention that this violence against women affects men too. I did not understand that until my boyfriends sister was killed, and believe me I understand now. Violence against women does affect men, and there are many wonderful men in this world who would never hurt a woman.

But when you are female, you don't know which men are which. A friend of mine said it like this: If you are walking down a dark street at night, every man is a potential perpetrator. As soon as a man passes by without harming you, he is a potential protector.

I do not understand why men rape. I do not understand why men kill. Not all men, of course, but more men than women express themselves in violence, often towards women they do not even know.

[The2ndWheel]

22. So evil until proven good

Wouldn't that also work in daylight as well? Or do the freaks only go out at night?

Although, if the guy walks by you, he could just be trying to gain your trust before he does something.

[lukasahero]

23. And if a woman trusts men to behave as men and something bad happens

she will be blamed for being careless. Not to mention she'll either be raped or dead. Tell me exactly, how do women ever win this game?

I would love to trust every man I meet. Unfortunately, that idealism could kill me.

[The2ndWheel]

24. I'm not saying trust everyone

It's just funny that the quote in the previous post was taken out of context, but every man is a potential predator until he walks by you.

I don't know what to say about the game. Maybe the day will come when all men have every thought they have monitored by a machine at all times, and then any woman walking down the street will know who they can interact with.

[genie_weenie]

25. Just replace Men with Muslim in your post and

what kind of reaction would you get...

[lukasahero]

27. So what would you suggest women do?

Trust all men? And when she winds up dead or raped, what then? Sorry but this is the reality men need to understand women live with every single day of their lives. One bad decision and you end up dead or raped. That's not an "oops" I made a mistake. This isn't a matter of a simple mistake. It's a mistake that can cost women their lives.

Why are you more interested in having women trust all men than you are about the risk women take in doing so? So what, a woman crosses the street to avoid walking within grabbing distance of you. So what? What lifetime harm does that cause you? Does it kill you? Because if it wasn't you and it was someone else, it could kill her. Does that matter to you? What would you recommend she do? Stay inside all day? Not go out without a chaperone she CAN trust? What a wonderful world we live in where your feelings are more important than her life.

[genie_weenie]

31. No comments about trusting all men in my post.

But, a few thoughts. First, when horrible incidents like this happen it becomes acceptable to label all Men as potential Rapists. Why is that? While it is true that 100% of male attacks on females are men on women violence, it is not true that all men attack women.

Second, while not giving this person the benefit of any doubt it's odd that the liberal ideology (in the 19th century definition of the term) is never applied. Chemical imbalance, sociological wrongs, previous history of abuse are never taken into consideration. Should they be taken into consideration is a penal reform topic and a nature of crime which I will not go into in this post.

Third, I agree don't trust men (or women). Modern society has placed in large, cramped living conditions but paradoxically one in which we don't know our neighbors. Mankind is used to a small tribal existence (usually extended families) in which all members are known and trusted or not trusted. But, one can not know everyone in a city or suburb or town.

Lastly, I am not arguing you have insulted me by not trusting me. Trust is earned.

[mongo]

39. Why do some women walk around with fear

and the thought that every man is a potential predator, and others do not?

Men are more likely to be murdered by another man. Should I be afraid to walk down the street too?

Threads like this and others that have cropped up are nothing short of misandrist drivel.

[smirkymonkey]

46. Oh, Please....

:puke:

This is one of our greatest complaints - men never try to understand where we are coming from, they immediately go on the defensive or start in with the name calling, etc.

I stated that I find it difficult to like or trust men (in general, not every single male individual) which is how I feel. You can't dismiss someone's feelings about something, and the truth is that most of my female friends feel the same way. It might not be rape or violence, but there is always misogyny or sexism present in almost every interaction with a man - whether it's just not being seen as anything more than a sex object or how men treat women in relationships.

Would you jump on a Muslim person for saying they find it difficult to like or trust Americans anymore? Probably not - you would concede that they have a right to feel that way. Why is it so different with women? Is it because men rightly fear that we are not going to want anything to do with them anymore, therefore drying up their sexual supply?

[genie_weenie]

48. The Truth is you and your friends "feel" you

can not trust any man, in general.

Feelings can not be used as evidence. Yes, women get killed, harmed and harassed by men everyday. Period. But that does not mean you are right to apply your feelings to the rest of the worlds men.

This incident was tragic. No amount of back and forth will change it.

But, how about understanding or at least listening to some of the men on this board before immediately going on the offensive and then vomiting and proclaiming we are not listening to you but going on the defensive.

[smirkymonkey]

55. Feelings aren't right or wrong - the truth is, whether a particular

man is dangerous or not, a lot of women think they are all a threat unless proven otherwise.

It may not be fair, but that's pretty much what most women have learned through trial and error. Especially living in a big city. Whether it happens to us personally or not, we see what happens to women who are too trusting and take the lesson to heart. Most of us put up with bullshit EVERY f-ing day from men - getting harassed, cat-calls, threats of violence if we don't respond sexually or the way they want us to? Of course we're on the defensive.

What is wrong with you that you can't understand how the epidemic of violence against women affects how women see men. You even admit that women get killed, harmed and harassed by men everyday. What do you expect from us - that in the face of all the evidence we are going to adore and trust every man on the face of the planet?

[Skittles]

71. isn't that the truth?

the woe is us syndrome instead of addressing the issue

[undergroundpanther]

49. Out of context

I was speaking about MY attitude getting WORSE about men because of the PERVERTED men among the decent guys that I ruin into in my life,and I am really rapidly beginning to feel more and more as more of the incidents like the ones I described in the post you quoted happens to <ME and I hear about in the News..men are not safe,too often. This BOTHERS me. But I am NOT the one making MYSELF unsafe,,being in public around pervert men is unsafe,and you never know which guy is a pervert.A woman does risk her safety to have freedom..And this is NOT RIGHT. Men have GOT to police themselves and each other to be respectful and safe around women , IF they do not like the shame,being talked about and feel guilty, and don't like the mistrustful and angry responses from women they hear sometimes,than look atv why,and do not project,look at whom is raped and who rapes and do not lie to yourself out of guilt or shame because of your gender or the way men are raised. THat is no excuse to rape or to pretend what women face is not real....

Like I said my attitude is not out of thin air.Men need to change themselvces and each other .Women can't do it for them..And men who are not perverts must step up and force the perverts to change or help the women fight the perverts and stand BY the targets of male violence with solidarity with the women and try to understand the danger women face as if you male,was in a woman''s position..

Any sort of social privilege(as in the male privilege for instance) when it is declared assumed OK for one type of person or for one gender it deprives the other. .Having privilege and the status it seems so natural to the status holders that the privilege seems invisible to them...and so to empathize with the women who do not have the privileges,they have.. like existing without such threats as rape ect..,Men must let it go,and quit the defensiveness,be passive,listen,empathize,care and feel how it feel to be a woman threatned in this culture..

Men could learn from this if they'd quit defending their 'privleges',egos and social status,then more men can begin to understand on a human level that goes deeper than gender how their social status and ways of seeing women and treating women,effects everyone.Soon there may be fewer preverted men.Soon men may begin to look down upon pervert men and make it difficult for pervert men to attack women and get away with it..Men can begin to see how their cultural and personal unwillingness to listen and sympathize with women has made things worse for everyone as the women relate how they experience men and how the privlege and defensiveness in men creates part of the problem in men..

[undergroundpanther]

61. Out of context?

I was speaking about MY attitude getting WORSE about men because of the PERVERTED men among the decent guys that I ruin into in my life,and I am really rapidly beginning to feel more and more as more of the incidents like the ones I described in the post you quoted happens to <ME and I hear about in the News..men are not safe,too often. This BOTHERS me. But I am NOT the one making MYSELF unsafe,,being in public around pervert men is unsafe,and you never know which guy is a pervert.A woman does risk her safety to have freedom..And this is NOT RIGHT. Men have GOT to police themselves and each other to be respectful and safe around women , IF they do not like the shame,being talked about and feel guilty, and don't like the mistrustful and angry responses from women they hear sometimes,than look atv why,and do not project,look at whom is raped and who rapes and do not lie to yourself out of guilt or shame because of your gender or the way men are raised. THat is no excuse to rape or to pretend what women face is not real....

Like I said my attitude is not out of thin air.Men need to change themselvces and each other .Women can't do it for them..And men who are not perverts must step up and force the perverts to change or help the women fight the perverts and stand BY the targets of male violence with solidarity with the women and try to understand the danger women face as if you male,was in a woman''s position..

Any sort of social privilege(as in the male privilege for instance) when it is declared assumed OK for one type of person or for one gender it deprives the other. .Having privilege and the status it seems so natural to the status holders that the privilege seems invisible to them...and so to empathize with the women who do not have the privileges,they have.. like existing without such threats as rape ect..,Men must let it go,and quit the defensiveness,be passive,listen,empathize,care and feel how it feel to be a woman threatned in this culture..

Men could learn from this if they'd quit defending their 'privleges',egos and social status,then more men can begin to understand on a human level that goes deeper than gender how their social status and ways of seeing women and treating women,effects everyone.Soon there may be fewer preverted men.Soon men may begin to look down upon pervert men and make it difficult for pervert men to attack women and get away with it..Men can begin to see how their cultural and personal unwillingness to listen and sympathize with women has made things worse for everyone as the women relate how they experience men and how the privlege and defensiveness in men creates part of the problem in men..

[genie_weenie]

62. It is only right I respond to your long post

But, I will need to read and digest it and repsond by PM.

I can only state the obvious A) violence is wrong. B) Violence against women is wrong (see A).

I'm sorry you've had such terrible dealings with men.

[undergroundpanther]

63. Sorry about the double post

The computer was being cheesy.
Yeah and I do look forward to your responses..

[Generic Other]

17. Of course most men are apalled by the behavior

but some consider it an acceptable way to deal with their personal life issues. Those are the ones the rest of us worry about. The fact remains that women can't always tell the difference between a healthy well-adjusted male and a sick one until it's too late.

I do think it's a valid question for women to ask "why" it happens. It's also reasonable for men to try and answer that question.

But you are right that we shouldn't lump all men in the same category as psychotic mysoginistic killers. Most I know are as horrified as anyone over this behavior.

[SmokingJacket]

19. I think generalities can be made without implicating the individual.

Men *are* more likely to shoot up a school -- but my husband is LESS likely than many women I know, including possibly myself.

And for example, men in GENERAL are stronger than women, but that doesn't mean individual women are not strong enough to be firefighters.

It's just as stupid to say "all men are evil" as it is to deny the fact that murderous violence is more common among men.

[genie_weenie]

26. I think my post #25

is a good counter-point concerning the generalities which get made after a terrible incident.

And it always strikes me as odd that progressives would use such sloppy generalizations, men are violent, I don't trust any man walking down the street, but those same people get filled with righteous indignation if a bigot makes the statement, I don't trust <hated group X>...

[SmokingJacket]

45. I agree about sloppy generalizing.

I know why some progressives do it (and I'm not excusing it, either): they believe that making statements like that about a *powerful* and *dominant* group (men, white people, Christians) is harmless, because those people already have an advantage, but making them about an oppressed minority is wrong and will hurt them. Some progressives feel this strongly, but couldn't explain it to you. If they could explain it to you, they could be argued out of it. (If you know why you do something, it's easier to see the hypocrisy there, rather than just feeling that you must defend yourself.)

I'm with you, and I think any kind of generalizing of groups must be made only with extreme care. Generalizing about gender is somewhat more valid because there *are* obvious biological differences: women are weaker, etc.

The real harm is when one mistakes a "generality" for "blanket statement" -- "men are more violent than women" (true) vs. "all men are more violent than all women," (totally not true).

And then, generalizing about religious groups is extra-tricky because even the broadest generalization is likely to have less truth in it. "Muslims are ...." Are what? How can you possibly say something true about such a large and diverse group that isn't true about everyone else?

Interesting subject, thanks for posting.

[Name removed]

28. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Evoman]

35. I never claimed to be speaking for YOUR GENDER

I am speaking my mind about what I see is a blind spot in many men to ignore that the vast percentage of terrible crimes and injustices are perpetuated by men on women. And as soon as someone confronts the problem, all of a sudden we start protesting that "we are not like that" and "if you said that about muslems..etc etc" instead of acknowledging it, and understanding that the women (and men) who rant about man violence don't mean all of us. Its defensive bullshit.

Look around you. You don't see a problem? I've travelled a lot, too many countries both rich and poor, and I've seen some disgusting things.

http://www.wavaw.ca/informed_stats.php

Just an example of what I'm talking about. 60% of college males would RAPE a women if they thought they could get away with it. And thats the people who answered honestly.

I'm sorry you find me appalling. I am a good guy (at least I think I am)...I try my hardest to treat the people around me with the dignity and respect that they deserve. Part of that is acknowledging the real problems women have with men and violence.

[BoneDaddy]

36. I have no problem

having a discussion about men, violence and women, but when it is proposed in such a biased and inflamatory way, I already know the outcome and get really tired of the level of hypocrisy and irrationality in which it is brought forth.

[kiahzero]

52. It gets tiring to be treated as the enemy

The fact of the matter is the many of these posts don't attack the actual root of the problem (the heteronormativity / patriarchal attitudes in question), but rather attack a group of people classified on an immutable characteristic. That's wrong.

[verse18]

29. Think about the view of women in context of Christianity.

We have a nation where the majority believe a woman is to blame for the downfall of "Man." A woman is responsible for everything wrong and evil in the world. Therefore, all women are fair game.

[lukasahero]

30. Interesting point

You have just summed it up: in our culture, in our history "All women are evil".

Kind of makes sense of the folks who like to bluster that discussing violence against women is suggesting "All men are evil". They don't live in a world where not just some people but whole civilizations, religions and cultures actually believe that. Certainly finally explains to me why they never get the fucking point.

[The2ndWheel]

34. Now we're getting somewhere

"whole civilizations, religions and cultures"

Until everyone is ready to give those up, including women, we'll never get anywhere.

[lukasahero]

38. Guess women should just sit down, shut up and accept the fate

doled to them by men, then? Don't count on it.

[genie_weenie]

40. Self-delete

Second Edit: I had to delete this post because I am feeling very sad and I don't wish to upset you further than you have been. Sorry.

Edit: Please read my post if you haven't
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2289580&mesg_id=2296236

[The2ndWheel]

56. Because that's exactly what I said

We've all accepted the fate doled out to all of us. Why the hell do women want in on the system of oppression that men have created? It's not as if many people want to live differently. Women want careers in the corporate world. Why? You've already accepted your fate if you want that. You're already part of the oppressive system.

Until things fundamentally change around the world, we've all sat down, shat up, and fully accepted our collective fates. Do you see that changing? Don't count on it.

[undergroundpanther]

65. Well quit your job

Drop out. You can drop out you know.It's not easy but it IS possible. It wont get you status points,or dates but you will be free and poor.
Quit being seduced by career and tying your self worth to a wallet.Fuck everyone else's fate, you can change yours,have you got the guts to resist the fate society doled out to you regardless of what everyone else does or does not do?

I am transgender and A feline soul. I am currently transitioning the best I can.People routinely call me nuts for seeing myself as an androgyny panther,but I say Fuck em. I feel I was born in the wrong body,and I will change it until I am comfortable in it,and fate on a biological level even,can kiss my striped kitty ass. Work? Pfft..I am not afraid to defy the whole sick world and every asshole opinionated coward ,to be free.It's not easy being a'norm' resistor, it actually can hurt like hell,but it is better than being something I am not for the illusion of acceptance from people I don't relate to or who really don't care about me. Get my drift?
Collective fate matters only if you identify yourself as part of the collective.Fuck,I ain't even a human anymore,and I like being me better than when I was she..

[The2ndWheel]

72. I'm working on it

Although it's not enough to just drop out. As civilization has shown, if it needs what you have, it will take it, even if it has to kill you. Ever read "The Culture of Make Believe"? Good book.

[BoneDaddy]

32. Why are you looking for an answer?

The man was obviously insane, no rational answer will come of this other than he was out of his mind.

[William Bloode]

51. What about violence against teenage boys?

Theres more violence amongst men and boys to each other, than what they do to females. Guys beat, cut, and shoot each other everyday in huge numbers. It's just male on female violence is bigger news.

[undeterred]

57. What happened at two schools this week was directed at teenage girls.

Thats why.

[William Bloode]

58. Thats not even an answer to the question asked.

Come on you can do better than that.

[undeterred]

59. The question asked appeared to be why did you post on this subject.

I answered it without sarcasm or hostility towards you. You wanna pick a fight, find another thread.

[William Bloode]

60. Get defensive much?

Nt/

[undergroundpanther]

64. Umm this thread is not about male to male violence

If you wish to discuss that start a thread about it yourself. Don't Hijack this thread,change the subject because it upsets YOU, and try to control what others talk about,it's very bullying of you and it makes you look like a male with a control issue,and control issues in men is the very kind of problem behavior we are talking about here..Coincidence?

[undeterred]

67. Well said.

[Scout]

66. start a thread about it. n/t

[Luna_C_06]

68. Words used against Women

I don't know where this fits in, but sometimes I feel like bitch, slut, whore, and all those other words are to Women what the n word is to Blacks. I am completely for the freedom of speech, but those words awake such an anger and sadness in me, its hard to explain.

[undergroundpanther]

69. Agreed.

I hate some words. Because those words are existent only as weapons. When bullies use regular words.. it is the INTENTION behind the words that come delivered with the dehumanizing that makes them hurt.
Verbal abuse can be blatant or subtle.. any way it comes at you it is designed to wound and nothing else.. is abusive.And it is wrong to abuse someone who is not a threat to you or someone else or abusing already.

Verbal abuse can destroy a person from the inside out,it can drive them to suicide and if the berating is done long enough. Sometimes an inner voice a harsh judgmental inner critic comes,and it is like a heartless tape recording of the words said that stung you, and it floods you with feelings of shame and self criticisms to the point you hate yourself for existing. And the saddest thing is the critical wounds that keep on berating that come from long term emotional/verbal abuse, it can't be shut off so easily,self doubts open the door,anxiety,fear,depression, and in it comes again,screaming reminding you of what hurts. Trauma is a wound that keeps on wounding long after the abuse itself has ended.

That's what verbal abuse does it kills the soul inside without leaving physical scars.It's evil.

[Luna_C_06]

70. Thanks for agreeing with me.

I've always thought that all while wondering if I was being too sensitive. And you're right, verbal abuse can destroy a person. I've seen it happen to my best friend. Her "high school sweet heart" just kept yelling and demeaing her until she would get ill at the sound of his voice.