Attorney: "Foley Not a Pedophile" - Bwahahaaa!

[Triana]

Oh. Right. Fish don't swim. Birds don't fly. And the sun will never rise again. Oooh. And the Easter Bunny? He's REAL! Really. He IS!!

"Roth also told CNN that Foley is "absolutely positively not a pedophile" and "has never ever had an inappropriate sexual contact with a minor in his life."

http://www.wral.com/politics/9976869/detail.html

:rofl:

[Moochy]

1. *inappropriate* sexual contact with a minor

Can someone parse that phrase for me?

Does one really need to use the adjective inappropriate to modify "sexual contact with a minor" ????

[Jack Rabbit]

19. Well, he's a lawyer

Lawyers like to use big, fancy words like that. It makes them sound smarter than the rest of us when they really aren't.

[Moochy]

22. Maybe just big words, but maybe weasel words

See I've read that lawyers often parse statements like these to avoid making false statements.

The use of the adjective inappropriate sexual contact with a minor seems to be skating the issue, leaving wiggle room for the logical negation of that word inappropriate:

"appropriate sexual contact with a minor."

So the age of consent in DC is 16, but are there special laws for if the other person is over 18? seems like some states have different laws about consent, and the differential ages of the people involved in a sex act. Other "folks on the internets" I have read today have claimed that the IM's were cross state lines so that would entail multiple jurisdictions and I'd assume the most restrictive set of laws would apply. :shrug:

[Jack Rabbit]

30. The Bushies are masters at it

Go back at look very carefully at how the pre-war claims about the threat posed by Iraq were crafted. While they seldom missed an opportunity to says "Saddam" and "September 11" or "al Qaida" in the same sentence, I challenge you or any body else to find one instance where any regime official or spokesperson flatly claimed there was a connection.

You won't find one.

* * *

The word minor means that the subject of the sexual contact is below the age of consent; there can be no such thing as appropriate sexual contact in this case. {i}Appropriate sexual contact with a minor is an oxymoron; inappropriate sexual contact with a minor is redundant. Either way, it's bad grammar.

The operative term in the lawyer's non-denial denial is probably sexual contact. In the case of Foley and the one young page, all we know is that they exchanged inappropriate e-mails and text messages, but we know of no sexual contact.

[Name removed]

34. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Frances]

2. There is a suggestion in one of the IMs that he met a page

in San Diego. It sounds as though it's possible that there was physical contact. I don't know if there was or not but I don't think we can rule it out at this point.

[beyurslf]

3. Ok. I will settle with "nasty perverted freak, unsafe to be around kids"

[walldude]

4. Gee, I wonder what Foley has to say about that?

FOLEY: Well, I think they make a valid point there, and that's why I've always been an advocate for the First Amendment. But, again, we're dealing with a little bit different standard here. We're not dealing with gunfights, and we're not dealing with skate boarders or things that may be reckless in nature. What we're dealing with is graphic and gratuitous sexual engagement of minors, young people. I think it's wrong whether it's virtually simulated or...

REP. FOLEY: <...> It doesn't make a difference if the child engaged in sex is real or virtual. In other words, an old simple saying: If it walks like a duck, talks like a duck, it is a duck. The courts obviously didn't have a chance, as Chairman Lamar Smith suggested, to see the kind of virtual reality that is on computer terminals today. It's as close to reality as possible.

http://mpetrelis.blogspot.com/2006/10/photo-of-foley-page-at-gop-confab.html

[greyl]

5. What makes you think he's a pedophile?

Pedophilia is sexual attraction to prepubescents, not minors.

[kestrel91316]

13. This parsing and hairsplitting is MOST unbecoming of Dems.

You ARE a Dem, right?

[greyl]

15. Your post is pathetic.

You're questioning my credentials because I know the proper definition of a word?

[kestrel91316]

20. Nope. I'm questioning your being an apologist for a child predator.

Pedophile, hebephile, WHATEVER.

Everybody knows damn well what the man did is wrong. To say that he doesn't fit the definition (which is an open debate) is to minimize what he did. Shame on you.

[greyl]

21. Again, a pathetic reply.

Using incorrect language out of ignorance or carelessness minimizes ones argument. If I'm ever guilty of that, please feel free to call me on it.

Everybody knows damn well what the man did is wrong.

I agree.

[alittlelark]

23. Exactly how many times are you able to split that hair?

FOLEY was obviously attracted to boys in the 14-17 age range. He contacted them asking for pictures. He harrassed them while he was in a position of POWER.


I KNOW you see what is wrong w/ this pic.


It does not matter if he was hetero and doing the same to girls, or if as a closeted homosexual-what he has done w/boys.


It is blatantly sick.


Some like the pre-pubescent for their extreme vulnerability, some like the young and vulnerable... VULNERABLE.


Vulnerable.


Stop splitting hairs.

[greyl]

26. What's with the aversion to education and precise language?

For what it's worth, I agree with Bill Clinton's "depends on the definition of "is" is" argument, meanwhile right-wing Proconsuls are saying he was splitting hairs. Fuck that noise.

It is important to understand the differences between pedophiles and molesters. Pedophilia, which is a psychological disorder, is a distinct sexual preference for pre-pubescent children. The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM 111-R), which is published by the American Psychological Association, supplies this definition of pedophilia: “recurrent, intense, sexual urges and sexual arousing fantasies of at least six months duration involving sexual activity with a pre-pubescent child” (DSM, V.3, 1987). Generally, this means the target of the fantasy will typically be less than 12 years old. Notice the definition does not require the person to actually engage in a sexual act. Pedophilia is a psychological disorder that does not require, and usually does not involve, a criminal act.
crimelibrary

Pedophilia is considered a paraphilia, an "abnormal or unnatural attraction." Pedophilia is defined as the fantasy or act of sexual activity with prepubescent children.
more

[alittlelark]

31. I do not agree w/ Clintons "definition of 'is'"

that said his witch hunt was a travesty.


I understand the difference - see post below.

He was on the committee to PROTECT EXPLOITED CHILDREN!!!!


Stop splitting hairs, get on board the train.

Yeah, lotsa guys like 'Barely Legal' and it's same sex version - but can't you tell the difference????


This is a Congressman excoriating the evils of pedophilia while engaging in attempted sexual encounters w/ CHILDREN.

[greyl]

33. I don't understand your first sentence.

I'm not splitting hairs, you're obfuscating I'm only voicing the truth about a particular definition, and no I won't jump onto the caboose of a train of ignorance.

You must have missed this from above:

kestrel91316: Everybody knows damn well what the man did is wrong.

greyl: I agree

[Codeine]

27. It's not splitting hairs, ferchrissake.

The term "pedophile" has a meaning, a definition. Foley doesn't fall into the very specific definition of that term. He is an ephebophile; he is sexually attracted to young men who combine sexual maturity with emotional immaturity.

That makes him a sicko, but not a pedophile. To question greyl's Democratic or liberal bonafides because she knows what a word means while you don't is sad and stupid.

[alittlelark]

29. I understand the difference very well, thank you.

It is still SPLITTING HAIRS. Foley is on the committee to protect exploited children - while he exploits children.

The difference is in vulnerability. They are both vulnerable groups, the younger much moreso. BOTH ARE CHILDREN.

Obsession w/ pre-pubescent children indicates a deep pathos w/ no cure currently known.

Obsession w/ very young adolescents indicates an inferiority complex (quite often) conjoining with a narcissistic personality. They actually believe the young person sees them as attractive.

[Mz Pip]

6. We shall see

I wonder if there hasn't been some actual contact over the years. Could he really have had that much self control to keep his urges just ot email correspondence?

It took a lot of courage for young men to come forward and admit to being molested by priests. We shall see if Foley's behavior stopped short of actual contact. I have my doubts.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[unschooler]

7. OK. Let's parse that.

pe‧do‧phile  /ˈpidəˌfaɪl/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation

–noun Psychiatry. an adult who is sexually attracted to young children.

Also, pedophiliac.

OK. So a 16-yo page isn't exactly a "young child."

"inappropriate" -

Is there "appropriate" sexual contact between 52-yo members of Congress and minors?

"contact"

Could be something there. Not every kinky thing out there involves "contact."

Somewhere in there is the key word that somehow makes this "true."

Either that, or Foley just lied to his lawyer.

I'm guessing it's going to come down to a "he said/he said" situation, and the kids will not be willing to testify against him when they can't prove what happened and it will hurt their reputations, too.

[TechBear_Seattle]

8. Technically, Foley is not a pedophile

Aside from the fact that many states have their age of consent at 16, pedophile is defined as sexual attraction to pre-pubescent and pubescent children. By the time someone reaches 15, they are sexually mature and it is no longer pedophilia. That doesn't make it right, and certainly not when you are screwing around with underlings, but it isn't pedophilia.

[alittlelark]

32. Technically he is a HYPOCRITE!!!!

He chairs the 'exploited children' bit so he can see the pics - we all know it.

He is attempting to engage children in sexual activities when they are too young to join the armed forces.

He is a closeted gay man whose republican ideals have disallowed him a 'normal' life.... he has been closeted for over 20 years - that will make anyone F*CKED UP.

[TechBear_Seattle]

35. He is a hypocrite, no question. But...

From what has been made public, he is not a pedophile.

[mike_c]

9. the families of everyone who has been a congressional page...

...during the last 12 years are no doubt having some intense conversations these days. Lawyers are doubtless salivating at the prospects. If he did more than just write them nasty emails, the charges will begin soon.

on edit-- is everyone aware that the minimum age for congressional pages is 16?

[Lone_Star_Dem]

10. I am so not a happy girl tonight

I want to know why I've not gotten a chocolate bunny OR a basket from that jerk in many years now?

Seriously, when my daughter was 16 she was a minor.

[Disturbed]

12. As another DUer explained he is a Pedarist.

Look up that word.

[Lone_Star_Dem]

14. A person who has sex with underage boys

I feel smart, I didn't have to look it up! No, I don't really feel smart, I'm not, but I didn't deserve being told to look it up. :(


edit for puncuation...I'm worried my "stupid" may offend. :cry:

[greyl]

18. Pederast.

However, I don't think we have evidence of that yet.

[kestrel91316]

11. Let's be more precise: he IS a serial child sexual predator. Whether or

not he ever got around to SEXUAL MOLESTATION is absolutely irrelevant.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

37. No it isn't.

If you seriously think that sending sexually explicit emails to minors and sexually molesting minors are equivalent, then imagine what the effect of each of them on the victim is.

The former is a very serious offence, but not nearly on a par with the latter, and while it wouldn't amaze me if it came out that Foley had done both, there's no prove, *nor even any evidence*, of the latter.

[roguevalley]

16. defense lawyers mystify me. I cannot fathom how you can lie like that.

[RB TexLa]

24. They are advocating a legal position

If a murderer or a rapist hires you what do you think you should say?

[Codeine]

28. Not a lie at all.

A very carefully weighed statement based on the specific definition of a word. That's what lawyers do; they rarely lie, but they know how to spin. The emotional use of an incorrect term like "pedophile" gives them ammunition to spin to their heart's content.

[truthisfreedom]

17. who gives a flying f*ck what this lawyer says? we'll paint him any way we

want. dude is a sexual predator who frightened minors on multiple occasions and abused his power to keep it covered up.

[bridgit]

25. whoa, whoa, whoa; you mean the pope DOESN'T wear a funny hat...

:shrug:

[Saphire]

36. yeah, uh huh! right!

[NNN0LHI]

38. Well that takes care of that I guess. NOT! n/t

[supernova]

39. That's correct. Foley is a Pederast

That is the proper term for a man who pursues relationships with teenage boys. But, wow, you won't see that word on the news.