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Dem. Senators to Frist: WE CALL YOUR BLUFF! (It needs to be shouted!)

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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:18 PM
Original message
Dem. Senators to Frist: WE CALL YOUR BLUFF! (It needs to be shouted!)
This is what I want the Democratic Senators to do...to call the Republicans bluff on the nuclear option. I posted this in another thread, and a poster suggested it needed it's own thread, so here it is:

We are making the assumption that the Republicans want us to make, that they really would exercise the nuclear option. That is not a certain thing. Frist made the threat at a time when the Republicans were sitting pretty, and Bush was convinced that he had a "mandate" and that he was going to "exercise his political capital." (Remember that?)

The circumstances have changed dramatically. There have been Republican scandals over ethics violations; the President's "mandate" has disappeared, and Republicans are worried that he is going to pull them down with him in their next elections (and for some of them, that means just a few months from now); the President has been caught in a lie to the American public,and when discovered, he not only was not apologetic, he said it was within his purview as the President to exercise his executive authority to do so (Alito is on record supporting the expansion of executive powers). We read in the papers recently that the government has attempted to obtain Google the records of American citizens; after one unpopular war, there are rumors of plans by the Bush administration that we may be led into yet another; high-level Bush administration officials are under indictment.

Yes, the political landscape has changed dramatically since the threat was first made by Frist. Frist has had problems keeping frightened Republicans in line. They jumped ship on the Anti-torture Act, that the President was against, approving it by a huge bi-partisan consensus. Then Bush attached a signing statement, essentially saying he could over-rule any parts of the Anti-torture Act that he didn't like (Alito was the one to develop the use of the signing statement, when he worked for the Reagan White house, and is on record as supporting them as a legitimate tool to expand executive power).

Want more? I could go on. The circumstances are different. We are assuming that the nuclear option would be invoked, because the Republicans have told us so. We should not make that mistake.

Wiki has a lot more to say about the nuclear option. Here is just a bit:

Supporters of the right to filibuster argue that the Senate has a long tradition of requiring broad support to do business, due in part to the threat of the filibuster, and that this protects the minority.

And...
The legality of the nuclear option has been challenged. (emphasis mine) The Senate parliamentarian, Alan Frumin, was appointed by Senator Lott. Furmin is an ostensibly neutral staff member and appointed keeper of the Senate's rules, and is opposed to the nuclear option.<2> It's been reported that a Congressional Research Service report "leaves little doubt" that the nuclear option would not be based on previous precedents of the Senate.<3>

The wiki article about the nuclear option is quite detailed, presents a variety of reasons why it should or could not be invoked, and is well worth a read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nuclear_Option

And all the above doesn't even address whether there are "extraordinary circumstances" which would render the nuclear option moot...
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:19 PM
Response to Original message
1. Bring it on, you treasonous rat bastards!
Peace.
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Dr.Phool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:29 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. And during the debate and filibuster
Have someone reading complaints and ethics violations, repeating Abramoff, plame, heckava job brownie, Halliburton, Enron, ......endlessly.
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fooj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 06:01 PM
Response to Reply #6
21. Yep. Endless violations and lack of ethics...
Just keep reading and reading...

I like it!

Peace.
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meow2u3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 10:01 PM
Response to Reply #1
32. We DARE you to push the 'nuclear button'
We DARE you to flout the Constitution! It's not like you haven't had any practice!
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BR_Parkway Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:20 PM
Response to Original message
2. K&R
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. It needs to be shouted, but not until the floor debate. n/t
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:24 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Apparently, it needs to be shouted here at DU, too. There are too many
naysayers. We all need to continue to oppose Alito and push for a filibuster. That's the reason I posted this.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:24 PM
Response to Original message
4. Let's see your cards, righties.
Amen, baby!
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Vinca Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
7. I agree with you. Do it!
Think how beneficial the "new-q-ler option" will be to Democrats when we take back the Senate. That's the worst case scenario. Best case: Frist and his merry band of indictees back down and Alito folds.
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:35 PM
Response to Reply #7
11. Which is more important to preserve? The filibuster or the Constitution?nt
Thats the worst case. The Constitution is worth risking the filibuster for, imho.
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wicket Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:30 PM
Response to Original message
8. Filibuster NOW!!!!!!!
:kick: :kick: :kick:
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leftchick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:32 PM
Response to Original message
9. they are dramatically weakened
I hope our Dems get it!

K&R!

:bounce:
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:34 PM
Response to Original message
10. I agree with your sentiments but....
I think the best strategy is to not let them know you are filibustering until they are stuck in the middle of it. Then they will have to re-group and try to get all their troops together which may not be as easy as they think, since they are very conscious of the elections in November...
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:39 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. Well, its Wordie who is saying it right now, not the Senate Dems.
Edited on Tue Jan-24-06 05:45 PM by Wordie
And I'm just an ordinary person, sitting here watching C-Span. I hardly speak for the Senate Dems.

I only posted that because I'm getting so sick of all the posts droning on and on about why the Dems can't filibuster. It saps valuable energy from those valiant folks who are spending so much time calling and FAXing and emailing like crazy.
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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
18. Agree...
:) It's up to our guys now.
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:53 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Well, it's still up to us to keep calling and FAXing and emailing.
Edited on Tue Jan-24-06 05:56 PM by Wordie
Still, if the hearing today was any indication...we're in pretty good shape. The Dems did an outstanding job in laying out the case.

I'm watching the C-Span replays right now. It's the Dem press conference, and Debby Stabenow is talking about Alito ruling against that dairy farmer family who were evicted from their farm. Very powerful stuff. The Dems have gotten their ducks in a row on this.
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Botany Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. ? from Stephanie Miller .... Is this a hill worth dying on?


And as for me the answer is yes.

Alito lied under oath & had a very selective memory when he needed it.

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kentuck Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 06:37 PM
Response to Reply #12
24. If you don't get over this hill...
there may not be another hill to cross...
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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 06:54 PM
Response to Reply #12
26. i totally reject the premise of that question. people unthinkingly repeat
it only becasue it sounds so cool.
losing a little battle happens when you wage a war, but
it's all over the minute you lay down, and you gave it away.
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:45 PM
Response to Original message
14. Excellent analysis,to which I might add that the peez has a 36%
approval rating and 52% want to impeach him. Bush never had a mandate, just daddy's Supreme Court, some good election thieves and a bought off press that says his sh*t doesn't stink. It is time to call the bluff on the bully before it is too late.
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:46 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. Well put, mom cat
Barbara Boxer was just on Ed Schultz - I am getting excited again.
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:47 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. What did she say??? eom
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Coexist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:49 PM
Response to Reply #16
17. Oops - you meant Boxer, not mom cat, right?!
Edited on Tue Jan-24-06 05:50 PM by FLDem5
Discussed filibuster as not a bad option, that Chafee has to answer to his people at home - she is sooooo blue.

All of Ed Schultz is DO THE DAMN FILIBUSTER.

It is great!
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 11:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
33. LOL...yeah, I meant Boxer. Great that she said it's not a bad option! :)
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 09:26 PM
Response to Reply #15
29. I am too. Must take my blood pressure pills.
:woohoo:
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 09:31 PM
Response to Reply #29
30. Take it easy, mom cat. We need you for the rest of the week! :) eom
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #30
31. It is good to have you around Wordie! Thanks.
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 05:57 PM
Response to Reply #14
20. Thanks mom cat! I had forgotten to add that 52% want Bush impeached!
LOL...some mandate, huh?
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mom cat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 09:07 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. Like huge dude.
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havocmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 06:06 PM
Response to Original message
22. Call his bluff indeed
Since we are at high traffic and sig lines are dropped, here is mine:

If Frist THREATENS to get rid of the filibuster at every mention of one, isn't that basically already banning the filibuster? Call his bluff. Make him STFU about it or go on record as taking that step toward tyranny! Hold bullies accountable! Letting them win by default is no strategy.
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Wordie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 06:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. The filibuster has been a Senate tradition since 1806.
Edited on Tue Jan-24-06 06:36 PM by Wordie
Although it isn't specifically allowed by the Constitution, neither is it disallowed.

The Republicans would have to be crazy to try to get rid of it, in a fit of pique over not getting their own way. They would look like the spoiled bullies they really are.

If it came down to it, the Republicans would soon realize what a politically foolish move getting rid of the filibuster really is. I think it's bluff by Frist, and he doesn't have the back up he once might have had.

All that said, however, in the end I will still trust Reid and the Senate Dems to make the call. I figure they know more about just how far thethe Dems can go - just how many Republicans would follow Frist in a jump over a cliff - better than I can.

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bettyellen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 06:49 PM
Response to Original message
25. K+R
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goodboy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-24-06 09:11 PM
Response to Original message
28. If nothing else, they should force the pukes to do it just so the country
can finally see these fascist pigs for what they really are.
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liberalla Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-25-06 01:17 AM
Response to Original message
34. This is an EXCELLENT thread!
There are so many good comments!

Thank you EVERYONE posting here!

I definitely agree ~ we need to call their bluff!

As another thread title says, we have ZERO to lose!



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