Officer uses stun gun on raucous youth football parent

[proud2BlibKansan]

Officer uses stun gun on raucous youth football parent
Associated Press

O'FALLON, Mo. - Police arrested a St. Louis-area man and his brother with the help of a stun gun over the weekend after they reportedly began yelling obscenities and resisted arrest at a youth football game.

The two men, whose names were not released, will likely face misdemeanor charges of disturbing the peace, resisting arrest and failure to comply with a law enforcement officer, police said.

"The officer warned him many times to cool it, and he warned him to not touch him," said Patrick D. Brown, grandfather of one of the players.

The Titans defeated the Spartans 13-0 in the football game between 7- and 8-year-oldsSunday afternoon.


http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/15664917.htm

[Missy M]

1. Good, maybe the stun gun jolted his brain into thinking like...

a decent human being. Can you imagine people acting that way around 7 and 8 year olds, specially over a game.

[proud2BlibKansan]

11. I was also concerned about shooting anyone

at a game for 7 and 8 year olds.

[Demit]

2. Wow. An off duty cop who carries his stun gun with him to kiddie football

games. Really not advisable. I don't feel too sorry for the loudmouth guys, but something tells me the deputy might be the kind who looks for trouble, too.

[MrCoffee]

3. I can think of no better place to have a stun gun than in the stands

at pee-wee football. Those psycho parents get out of control.

[Demit]

5. I agree about the psycho parents. Not at all about cowboy cops.

He has the badge, thus the ability to arrest the two guys. Something tells me that wouldn't be as enjoyable for him. All that unmacho paperwork, maybe.

I'm picturing the guy getting ready that morning. "Ok, son, hop in the car! Dad just has to go get something." Kinda ooky, no?

[MrCoffee]

8. How did you get all that out of that story?

"'The officer warned him many times to cool it, and he warned him to not touch him,' said Patrick D. Brown, grandfather of one of the players."


Isn't it just as likely that the cop identified himself, showed a badge, or was even in uniform?

He hit the one guy with the stun gun after he pushed the cop. That's assaulting a police officer.

[proud2BlibKansan]

14. He couldn't handcuff him?

Seems kind of overkill to use a stun gun.

[MrCoffee]

16. He used the stun gun AFTER he was assaulted by the parent.

You don't shove a cop. Ever. Reread the story. It seems like the cop gave the guy ample opportunity to calm down and get a grip. He didn't (or couldn't). Other parents were trying to calm him down, a cop was trying to calm him down, and he got violent.

From the information in the story, the cop did his job exactly right.

[Bake]

102. I have to agree.

You don't EVER - NOT EVER - assault a police officer unless you want your ass kicked and don't want to wait in line. Repeated stun jolts might be a bit of overkill, but not here.

Bake

[Irreverend IX]

44. It's hard to handcuff someone who's attacking you.

Handcuffs are for restraining someone after they've been subdued. Stun guns are used to help subdue them. And it's not "overkill;" they just deliver a mild electric shock that scrambles your nervous system for a few seconds.

[proud2BlibKansan]

65. And stun guns never seriously injure or kill anyone

:sarcasm:

[Demit]

18. Um, by reading it?

"A police deputy who was in the stands watching his 7-year-old son play asked to talk to the men. One of them pushed the deputy, who used the stun gun on him."

I don't think the guy was in uniform. Do you, really? And can you see the guy pushing the deputy if he knew he was a cop? I guess that's possible if he was absolutely berserk, but it's more likely he thought he was just another parent. As I say, I feel a certain satisfaction that the loudmouth got zapped. But then I realized that there had to have been some forethought here, on the part of the deputy, to have taken his stun gun to his son's weekend football game. And that makes me very uneasy.

Even if he was, say, on his way to work after the game, why bring his weapon into the stands? What was he anticipating?

[MrCoffee]

19. IMO, the stun gun shows that he was in uniform.

From one of the quotes, the officer told the guy several times to settle down, and warned him not to push the cop. I don't read it as the cop snuck up behind him and tazered him for kicks. I read it as the cop tried to calm the guy down, probably identified himself, may have actually been in uniform, warned the guy not to shove him, and the guy shoved him anyway. That's what got him zapped, he assaulted the cop.

It would make perfect sense that he be wearing all his gear if he was in uniform.

[Demit]

31. Probably, may have, if. Now who's reading into the story?

Neither of us know for sure, from this short account we've read. The only quote (from a spectator) says, "The officer warned him many times to cool it, and he warned him to not touch him." I don't know that that necessarily means the spectator knew the deputy was a cop as it was happening, or after, after he tasered the guy. Seems to me the story would have made it a point to to point out that the deputy identified himself as a police officer.

If the guy was in full uniform, as you surmise, then that would change things, I suppose. Then the actions of the two berserkers really is batshit insane. In that case though, I think THAT would have been the story: how freaking crazy do you have to be to shove a cop in uniform? Crazier than the usual freakout crazy parents at peewee football, I'd say, and I think the reporter would have wanted to put that in.

I'm not pushing any knee-jerk agenda here. I read this story and found it seemed to have more between the lines. If you ever see a followup to it that has more details, I'd be interested to read it.

[MrCoffee]

33. There are too few details to know one way or the other...

If the cop was just walking around in plain clothes with a stun gun, then there are some serious questions to be asked and answered. To me, it makes more sense that he was in uniform and would have naturally been carrying it.

As far as the loony parent pushing a uniformed cop, that takes no imagination on my part at all to believe that the guy was that far gone.

[proud2BlibKansan]

21. Exactly

Why was this cop going to a KID'S football game with a stun gun?

[Bake]

104. A lot of cops carry guns at all times.

I had a Sunday School teacher years ago (many years ago) who had a .357 in the shoulder holster under his jacket every Sunday.

He was a good man who happened to be a narcotics officer and likely had more than a few enemies.

Bake

[Demit]

164. If a cop has enemies so that he wants to be armed at all times, would

his weapon of choice be a stun gun?

Do you really think this cop at his son's football game was anticipating trouble with enemies he had made and was carrying his stun gun for protection?

[sandnsea]

30. It's useless

Some people just think puffing the chest and bullying people is a life choice. They don't see that all of these parents were exactly the same, and an off-duty cop doesn't have any more right to bully other parents than the parents themselves. People get upset at each other for all sorts of reasons and 99.9% of the time they resolve it and go about their business. If no punches were thrown, the cop should have ignored it or acted as any other parent would have and not turned it into a police issue.

[MrCoffee]

36. Sounds like the cop tried to act "as any other parent"

right up until the guy shoved him. Stun gun city, and good for the cop.

[sandnsea]

39. Yeah, I stun gun other parents all the time

Especially after *I* try to intimidate them and they naturally push me away. (Which doesn't happen because I don't act that way) We have cops who coach peewee sports in my town, and they don't act that way either.

[MrCoffee]

40. What story are you reading?

I just don't get all that from the story. Why do you assume the worst about the cop, and not about the obviously belligerent asshat parent? Why does he get the free pass?

[sandnsea]

43. Because people are people

And I live in the real world with real people who say and do all kinds of things. I don't go into a tailspin over every little upset and I've never figured out the power trip that causes other people to either. Cops who use their badge to go on power trips make me sick and that's what this cop did.

[MrCoffee]

48. What about the parent going berserk at a kids football game?

I still don't know why he gets a free pass for his behavior.

[sandnsea]

50. Ban them

Everything doesn't have to be "cops live".

[proud2BlibKansan]

38. I agree

I seem to be in the minority here but I see more wrong in an off-duty cop carrying a weapon and disciplining folks with it than I do in what the rowdy parents did.

We had parent problems when my kids played little league sports. They were warned and then banned from coming to games. I also think the league would have called the cops if anyone got out of control. No one ever got shot, thank goodness.

[guinivere]

166. I also agree.

There were a couple of incidents at our little league games. I called the cops one time, another mom called them the other time. As soon as the officers showed up, things cooled off immediately. The parents were banned from the games. The officers told them if they showed up, they would be escorted out.

[proud2BlibKansan]

13. Did he not have any handcuffs?

[onenote]

17. you think this guy was just going to let himself be cuffed?

[proud2BlibKansan]

20. Well I don't think shooting him in front of kids

was appropriate.

[onenote]

29. what would have been appropriate?

"Witnesses say the men were yelling obscenities at the other team and ignored appeals from parents to stop. A police deputy who was in the stands watching his 7-year-old son play asked to talk to the men. One of them pushed the deputy, who used the stun gun on him. The man's brother continued yelling and then walked onto the football field to grab his son and was arrested as he tried to flee."



They were screaming obscenities and when confronted were belligerent and physically assaulted a police officer and tried to flee. There were two of them. I'm curious. How would you have handled it?

[proud2BlibKansan]

34. I wouldn't have shot him

Maybe call for backup? The cop wasn't even on duty. Why is he carrying a stun gun? Doesn't that disturb you?

[onenote]

45. Okay, we know what you wouldn't have done. What would you do?

Call for back up? The one brother attempted to flee. You think the officer should've stepped back and let them go after being assaulted?

And I don't have a problem with an off-duty officer carrying a stun gun. Much preferred to his carrying an actual firearm. I don't know what rules applied to this particular cop, but many cops are allowed by law to carry their firearms while off-duty.

[proud2BlibKansan]

52. Why was it this cop's job to solve the problem

in the first place? Funny but parents have been going crazy at kids' sporting events for a long time now and it has never been up to the other parents to calm them down, now has it? My dad was a coach and I have spent literally decades watching youth sports and I can assure you that is what the league is for. The league also has the option of calling the local ON-DUTY cops. But lucky for these little kids, one of their dads is a hotshot cop who carries a stun gun with him when he goes to a ballgame!

Sorry but I think this is a gross abuse of power. Yes the parents who got out of control were wrong, but it also wasn't this cop's job to control them.

[onenote]

59. because these guys were disturbing the peace

and that's against the law -- at least that's what they've been charged with.

Look, neither you nor I know exactly what happened. What we do know is that these guys were yelling obscenities at the other team and continued to do so when the parents sitting around them asked them to stop. An off-duty cop (we have no idea whether he was/wasn't in uniform) intervened. They resisted, apparently after being informed he was an officer, and one of them struck the officer.

Do you think off-duty cops are supposed to sit on the sidelines and not intervene in "keeping the peace" until its time to clock in?

[proud2BlibKansan]

61. I think he should have called the cops

or let the league do it.

[onenote]

64. uhh...he was the cops.

[proud2BlibKansan]

78. umm he wasn't on duty

And he was all alone.

[onenote]

68. self-delete

self-delete to post at end of thread

[michreject]

170. There have been incidents resulting in death

at youth sporting events. The cop was just trying to avoid this possible outcome. Good for him.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

125. A stun gun is not like shooting with a real gun.

If the guy had to be subdued, there was going to be a fight anyway. The stun gun would be the quickest way of doing it in a crowd of people, and the least likely way get someone else hurt in the process. It requires direct contact to that specific person. In a crowd, pepper spray would not even be an option.

[proud2BlibKansan]

12. Yes those parents are crazy

But a stun gun?

[Missy M]

15. You've got to be kidding. You are making the cop out as the

bad guy. I hardly think the deputy was looking for trouble. Put the blame where it belongs. The loudmouth trouble maker deserved what he got.

[proud2BlibKansan]

22. I am thinking of the kids

They surely shouldn't have to see people shot at one of their football games.

[MrCoffee]

27. nor should they see a parent getting so out of control.

Better that they see the repercussions of such behavior.

[proud2BlibKansan]

35. So the repurcussions are that people are SHOT

when they get out of control?

What kind of a police state do you want to live in?

[MrCoffee]

41. If you shove a cop, hell yes you get tazered.

And you get a nice extra-long sentance at the trial.

[proud2BlibKansan]

57. Even if he is off duty and not in uniform?

[Irreverend IX]

47. Do you know what a stun gun is?

You don't "shoot" people with them, you turn on the power and jab them. If the kids saw the cop stunning the attacker, it wouldn't have looked that different than any of the dozens of other interparental fights I'm sure have occurred at those football games.

[proud2BlibKansan]

51. shoot/jab

Same effect - stop the bad guy.

[onenote]

58. and that's a bad thing?

[proud2BlibKansan]

60. Um yes

[onenote]

62. you think stopping bad guys is a bad thing?

0kee-dokee. Let's just disagree on that one...

[proud2BlibKansan]

77. Yes I think shooting someone who is being disruptive

at a public event is a bad thing.

So far, I don't live in a police state. (But as long as el pretzeldente is in power, you never know)

[onenote]

80. he wasn't "shot" -- he was tazered

Would it offend your sensibilities less if the cop had pulled out a bully club and beat the guy into submission?

By the way, we have established that the cop was in uniform, and stopped by the game on his way to work. Is he supposed to ignore drunk and disorderly assholes screaming obscenities at children until he clocks in?

[proud2BlibKansan]

162. Oh and tazering someone is perfectly harmless

[Demit]

165. How was it established that the cop was in uniform & was on his way to

work? LOL, I go away for an hour or two and you guys turn up brand new evidence from the same original article. I'm impressed. How'd you do it?

edited to say I continued reading the thread and saw the link to the new report. So the loudmouth guys WERE batshit insane.

[INDIA]

145. Hey buddy...

It was probably one of the guns that "shoot" barbs out that attach to the target from as far as a couple of yards away. Those are extremely effective and all police have them now. The kind in your picture is stone age tech, almost pointless because the officer has to get close to the target.

So yes, he probably DID shoot the guy, although the article doesn't specify.

[Demit]

23. Not kidding at all. Not saying the troublemaker didn't deserve what he got

Just picturing the scene. And wondering what is going through an off-duty deputy's head when he's getting ready to go watch his son play peewee football, and decides to strap on his stun gun and take it with him into the stands.

[Missy M]

26. He sure did deserve what he got.

[MrCoffee]

28. This joker ABSOLUTELY got what he deserved

In uniform or out, you do not shove a cop.

[ieoeja]

49. The hell you don't!

I am not talking of this particular incident here, just about your blanket statement. I know LOTS of cops who have gotten into fights that had absolutely nothing to do with their being cops. The vast majority of the time against other cops. But still plenty of incidents against non-police officers.

And when the cop is not acting in an official capacity -- which he *can* do for a good reason even when off duty -- then he's just another guy getting into a fight.

As I said, I am not talking about this incident. But your blanket statement that you don't ever shove a person who just happens to be employed as a police officer is just plain ridiculous.

[proud2BlibKansan]

54. Especially if they aren't in uniform

Do they wear signs around their necks "I am a cop, don't shove me"?? LOL

[TX-RAT]

67. No they wear a badge on their belt.

Allot of department require officers to were their badge and side arm while off duty. My Deputy's used their patrol cars for off duty purposes. They were also required to wear their gun and badge, when off duty in the county. The officer could well have been working security for the game. Local high school always have at least 2 off duty officers working security at the home games. Off duty officers work a variety of security jobs.

[proud2BlibKansan]

73. Don't you think the article would have mentioned it

if they were working off-duty security?

[onenote]

69. one problem: He was in uniform

http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=104693

[proud2BlibKansan]

74. Well at least that is cleared up

Thanks!

[onenote]

76. You're welcome

[ieoeja]

116. But what if he had not been?

In this particular instance he was in uniform. And even were he not in uniform, the two taken into custody were, by this report, the troublemakers.

My problem was with the blanket statement that "you never shove a cop". I have known several cops to get their asses beat in fights they started that they shouldn't have started. I was pulled off an off-duty cop in a bar once myself. And, no, I did NOT get arrested, or tasered or anything else, because he fucking started it.

Heck, I've known one cop to get beat up twice while acting in an official capacity. In one instance while dozens of upstanding citizens stood by and chuckled. He was a young, too macho cop who finally learned that the community will take only so much shit in the name of "law and order" before they toss you. Actually, I hear he ultimately became a pretty decent cop. Just got off to a bad start.

[MrCoffee]

66. That's not what i said.

The cop announced himself as such and told the guy to calm down. He also told him not to shove him. There's no way this joker DIDN'T know he was dealing with a cop. Then he shoved him. That gets you zapped.

[TX-RAT]

53. off duty

He may have been off duty but still in uniform.

[Selatius]

4. Is it me? Or has sports become the modern, cleaned-up Colosseum?

Sports become the opiate of the masses? The vent of societal frustration and rage born from inequality and gross injustices committed against the common people?

[BattyDem]

6. I don't like stun guns, but ...

I've seen some of those football/baseball parents and they're f*cking crazy! They act like their child's life depends on them winning some stupid peewee-league game!

Note to sports-obsessed parents:
It's a game. It's a way for your child to socialize, learn about team work, get some exercise and learn that losing ONE time is not the end of life as they know it. It teaches them to pick themselves up after a "failure" and try again - which is a very good life lesson. So ... GROW UP! :eyes:

[Selatius]

7. Some parents live vicariously through their children

So for them, it is as if they themselves are playing the game.

I guess they don't find their own lives as fulfilling as they want it to be. If I was dumb enough to run up an average of 9,000 in credit card debt trying to "keep up with the Joneses" buying consumer goods I could live without and had bills up to my head and have barely enough money to live, much less enjoy myself, I'd be escaping into vicarious-land, too. Then again, I'm just guessing.

[BattyDem]

10. I have a cousin like that

It's weird because he never really cared all that much about being a sports star when he was a kid. He played Little League and he was good, but sports never seemed to be his goal in life. It was just something he enjoyed to do. (His father NEVER pushed him into it.)

Now, he has a son and he has pushed this kid to be a sports superstar since the boy took his first steps. Football, baseball, basketball - you name it, this kid has been on the team. He's a very good athlete ... but he always looks unhappy. :-(

He chose to go to a private high school, instead of going to public school with all his friends, simply because the private high school has a great football team! I've never heard of any 14 year old wanting to go to a different school then all his friends. EVERYTHING with this kid is sports because that's what he's been pushed into since day one - but I honestly don't think that he truly wants a sports career. His whole identity and sense of self-worth is based on his athletic ability and if he gets injured or simply isn't good enough to be in the majors, I'm afraid of what that's going to do to him because his father's pride in him has always been wrapped up in sports. It's sad. :-(

[dogday]

9. Haven't you heard? It's the new American way for

the police to just stun or taser us as opposed to subduing a person... Works well right.. Sure it was a good show for the kiddies too.... :sarcasm:

[bdamomma]

25. yea right to show those kids to keep them in their place

:sarcasm:
what message are they sending these kids, you will get stunned by a taser, if you don't watch your attitude.

[calico1]

24. I don't like the idea of using stun guns BUT....

some of those parents are such wacko assholes, it's hard for me to feel any sympathy for them.

[newspeak]

32. just in the front page of the Nevada Review Journal

another man dies from stun gun. His mother called the police because he was suicidal, and he was stunned and died. This is the fifth case in this area since they started using stun guns.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

37. As a license karate referee, all I can say is, since we can't hit some of

the parents, we should get stun guns to calm some of them down. I've encountered numerous people who could have used a zap.

Seriously, sports parents can be pyschopaths; abusive to the children and other parents.

Also, stun guns are completely legal in most states. They're stupidly illegal (along with Mace) in my home state of NJ however.

[sandnsea]

42. We just ban them from events

Boring I know. But effective.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

46. Probably for the best. The asshats would just be zapping each other

instead of punching each other.

Honestly, I think we should just ban parents from kiddie sports events.

[proud2BlibKansan]

56. Only the bad parents

The good ones get to stay!

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. Banning them doesn't work?

That was always very effective when my dad was coaching and refereeing.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

63. We can keep them away from the ring, but we can't ban them.

It's really stupid. Parents can get licensed as coaches for their kids though, even if they have no martial arts experience themselves. This is actually the best bet for getting rid of crazy parents. If they become a coach, we can ban them, but we can't ban them as spectators.

[proud2BlibKansan]

75. My dad's leagues banned a couple parents a year

If they showed up, the cops came and took them out.

[sandnsea]

89. Change your laws

First of all, if your events are on either private rented property or in a public venue, yes you can eject people. You can also create your own rules for participation of the kids. If a parent is consistently unruly, ban the kid and the parent. You have control over the situation.

You also have the ability to change the laws, if they haven't been changed already.

http://www.njsbf.com/njsbf/student/eagle/spring04-1.cfm

OR you can stick with the high-testosterone route, and imagine yourself the great equalizer with your superior karate skills or stun gun or whatever. Only wimps call the cops.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

95. First off, it's a nationwide organization.

Secondly, I was joking about the stun gun thing. I guess I needed a :sarcasm: tag.

Thirdly, I'm a woman.

[sandnsea]

103. Fourth, you never addressed my point

And women have testosterone too, so my post stands as written. Why don't you change the law? And if it's a national organization, I'd bet there's already rules regarding parents. My husband and I both volunteered with national sports organizations, and if we had had a constantly beligerent parent, they would have been gone. We'd have made that decision and dealt with national later. My son referees for Boys and Girls Club, he doesn't take any guff either. There are alternatives to stun guns.

[HarukaTheTrophyWife]

107. You're not getting my point that the stun gun thing was a joke.

Also, women do not have testosterone to the degree that men do.

Anyway, I'm just a referee, I'm not in any position to change laws within the organization.

Go away. I don't feel like dealing with you. You apparently just have a hard-on for flaming me.

[onenote]

70. update: cop was in uniform, belligerent assholes probably drunk

Anyone want to revise their prior posts?

http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=104693

[TX-RAT]

71. Post #53 is the winner.

You just have to love these knee jerk reactions on this board. You just killed this thread. LOL

[onenote]

72. got real quiet around here all of a sudden, didn't it....

Where's Emily Litella when you need her?

[dogday]

79. I will still stand by my post

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2296773&mesg_id=2297104

[onenote]

81. I'm curious. By what means would you have the cop subdue the guy

YOu don't like tazering. Would it be okay for the cop to pull out a bully club and beat the guy into submission? Or does that offend your sense of fairness? Maybe you think that they should've both put on boxing gloves and fought according to the Marquis of Queensbury rules. The parents could vote to see who won the fight.

Geez....

[dogday]

83. They used to do it before all these things

came into play, now they don't have to even bother, just shoot first, ask later... Nice and clean right...

[onenote]

84. really? don't know much about the police do you?

Billy clubs (nightsticks) have been used by the cops since the Victorian era.
How do you think cops subdued belligerent, threatening suspects in the past? By asking them pretty please to stop?

[dogday]

86. Not always, and this makes it easier

to point a gun at a person and shoot... Look at it your way and I will look at it mine... I am sure the kids at that game will concur that you will shoot them or anyone else in a heartbeat...

[onenote]

90. nice non-answer

So we still don't know how you think the cop should've subdued this guy (other than that it shouldn't have been with a tazer and shouldn't have been with a nightstick). If you've got some other method, let's hear it.

And by the way, the cop didn't point a gun at this guy. He took out a tazer and zapped him with it. Have you ever seen a tazer?

[dogday]

93. It is obvious you approve of this behavior

and this has become an acceptable way of treating fellow citizens...

I feel it is dangerous territory, but again that is just me.. I am not trying to pull you to my point of view, you have a strong one, that is obvious... I was asked who stands by their posts and I do stand by mine...

[TX-RAT]

91. What part of nobody got shot, do you not understand.

[dogday]

94. What part of when aiming a weapon

at somebody becomes second nature to an officer, even if said weapon was not a gun... He gets used to shooting people and seeing what it does to them... If that is good for the force, then so be it...

I don't see where that is good for them or for us....

[thirdpower]

97. Why are you refusing to answer the question?

How would you have had the officer subdue the parent?

[dogday]

99. Call for back-up would of helped

asked for more officers if he felt it was getting to the point of hurting this guy..

[thirdpower]

108. In comparison to the guy..

continueing to threaten and harass people as well as the officer? He should have done nothing?

[dogday]

110. Yes he should of called for back-up

as you stated, it was a stituation too large for one cop to handle and where was his backup or partner?

[thirdpower]

113. Odd.

He seemed to handle it all by himself. "Backup" would have done the exact same thing if he was being rough.

[TX-RAT]

117. where was his backup or partner?

He stopped by to watch his son play on his way to work.

[thirdpower]

119. Probably already at work.

[dogday]

122. So he was not even called to the scene

by the parents in the stands... He was actually one of the Participants of the game and was not there in an official capacity?

[thirdpower]

123. Yet he was in uniform on the way to work..

Hence he's a recognized officer of the law.

Already been over this.

[TX-RAT]

131. If he's in uniform, he's official

Whether he was in uniform or not wouldn't have made a difference. Once he's identified himself by announcing himself as a Peace Officer and shown his badge, it becomes official. Your a Peace Officer 24 hr a day, not just the time your on duty.

[onenote]

98. waiting...waiting...waiting

still wondering what the cop should have done in your opinion...

[dogday]

101. Called for back-up

hurting a citizen should be the last resort... Did he call for help..

[thirdpower]

106. Back up to do what?

Subdue him w/ tazers and rough handling?

[dogday]

114. Back up to do like they show on COPS

mostly they are able to subdue this fellow without the use of tasers and such... Or is that just TV bs and it doesn't really happen that way?

[thirdpower]

115. You apparently don't watch COPS all that often...

They mace, tazer, stun, and "Take-down" people regularly on the show.

[TX-RAT]

85. They used to do what? Who got shot?

I know how it would have been handled back in the early 70's, when i was a rookie. He would have been busted up side the head with either a Baton, Duty weapon or a leather Sap, which would you prefer?

[dogday]

88. I would prefer a way

in which a weapon wasn't pointed at a citizen for a school football game scuffle.. But that is just me....

[onenote]

96. maybe the cop should have tried reasoning with the drunk asshole

oh wait. He did try that. And all he got was a threatening approach from a drunk asshole.

I know, he could've frozen him with his finger like Mork used to do...

[dogday]

109. Think this is the first drunk asshole

the cops have faced? They don't know how to handle them other than shock them? Where is this guy's partner or backup to help him in case it got to that point? Hurting US citizens should be the last resort for this kind of behaviour.

[thirdpower]

112. And what would you have done?

Continued to let this parent shove and threaten people until "backup" arrived to do the exact thing the single officer did?

[dogday]

120. They did not push anyone except

said officer that used the stun gun..

<snip>

The two men, whose names were not released, will likely face misdemeanor charges of disturbing the peace, resisting arrest and failure to comply with a law enforcement officer, police said.

Witnesses say the men were yelling obscenities at the other team and ignored appeals from parents to stop.

</snip>



No assault charges... Sounds like you are enhancing the story more than it need be enhanced....

[thirdpower]

121. Selective quoting?

"One of them pushed the deputy, who used the stun gun on him"
"he warned him to not touch him"

Try again.

[dogday]

126. Selective reading

I stated that in my post above the snip....

[thirdpower]

127. So they assaulted an officer.

And he got tazered. Thanks for making my point.

[dogday]

169. where is the charge of assault

on the officer? Just sayin? :shrug:

[onenote]

118. and the back up wouldn't have "hurt" this guy?

what would they have done? Stared him down? In another post, you cite COPS. Can't say I'm a regular viewer, but the couple of times I've surfed past it, it seemed like cops were wrestling the baddie to the ground. A good way for both the perp and the cop to get hurt.

[onenote]

128. if a couple of drunk assholes were yelling obscenities at your 7 year old

what would you do? Look the other way? Get a cop? What if the cop was right there? Would you tell him to let the assholes keep screaming at your kid until he got back up? What would you do after the back up arrived and the asshole kept calling your little kid names? Thank everyone for an entertaining afternoon and go home?

[thirdpower]

129. That's the question that keeps being asked...

The guys were rude and offensive, assaulted an officer, yet the officer should not have Tazered them but "called for backup and talked to them some more".

Notice that the same ones who are critisizing the officer are moslty the same ones that argue we should leave our protection in the hands of the police?

[onenote]

133. what I don't understand

is how some people seem to think that the effort involved in tasering this guy (which probably took seconds and wouldn't necessarily be all that evident to the kids) would be so much more traumatic to a group of little kids (and these were little kids -- seven and eight year olds I believe) than having two drunk assholes screaming obscenities at them.

I'm pretty sure that, as a parent, I'd be much happier explaining how the police stopped the bad men by giving him a "shock" than having to explain why no adult did anything to stop the bad men from scaring the kids....

[sandnsea]

130. Go home? If possible, YES

I've got no need to turn every disturbance into a felony case. The other parent has kids to consider too. Sometimes people get drunk and say stupid stuff. No need to ruin a family over it. 7 isn't too young to understand there's rude people on the planet. I don't get this desire to condemn every human being who doesn't fit into one's preconceived definition of utopia. I've known as many people who were just as vicious and hurtful who never raised their voice or uttered a curse word.

[thirdpower]

132. So everyone should leave..

and take their children because two idiots started a ruckus and assualted an officer? It's now thier responsibility and not the fault of the idiots?

[sandnsea]

135. My god, if stun guns are necessary???

You'd STAY?? Okay. Other people have a way different sense of normalcy than I do I guess.

[thirdpower]

137. It was necessary AFTER..

they ASSAULTED the officer who tried to talk to them. Apparently you like missing that part.

[sandnsea]

140. Something was going on BEFORE

If it was so bad that it required police intervention that led to a stun gun, it was bad enough for me to pick up MY kid and leave. If it wasn't so bad I would be wanting to take my kid and leave, it wasn't bad enough for a stun gun.

[thirdpower]

142. You can do that...

You shouldn't expect everyone else to be held accountable for the actions of two assholes. The officer tried to talk to them.

[sandnsea]

148. Everybody is accountable for their own kids

Not the behavior of anybody else. If something is going on that's so bad that tasers are used, I don't want my kids there. I can't understand anybody who would. Breaking up the event and sending everybody home is a perfectly acceptable way to diffuse a bad situation, and it would only need to be done once before ALL parents got the message. A lot more effective than hoping cops would be on hand any time anybody yelled a curse word.

[thirdpower]

149. No, it's not "acceptable"

Obviously the assholes hadn't learned the lesson to not attack a uniformed police officer, what makes you think that they would learn any lesson but yelling and screaming gets thier way? The officer happened to be there and took care of the situation in a professional and correct manner. You want to take all the acountability away from the assholes and place it on the parents and police. Good life lessons for children.

[sandnsea]

151. Can't let a 7 year old hear any cussing

The horror, the horror.

That's the post I responded to and I stand by my view that calling the game and going home is preferable to turning the game into something where tasers are needed. You prefer a police state where nobody ever steps out of line, your choice. I don't want to live that way. My choice.

That simple. That's all.

[onenote]

152. And you'd prefer a state where belligerent drunk assholes rule

Okay. We have a difference of opinion.

[sandnsea]

155. Most times, same difference

Cops, drunks, drunk cops...

but absolutely, I'd prefer dealing with a drunk asshole than an asshole cop.

[onenote]

158. most times? Doubt it. This time? Definitely not.

You have some reason to think the cop was drunk? Let's see the evidence.

[sandnsea]

163. You were referring to a general "state"

Not this particular cop. Stick to the facts as stated.

[onenote]

156. what if it were drunk freepers screaming in front of an abortion clinic

or in front of a mosque or synogogue or church?

You'd just suggest that those trying to enter the clinic just ignore them, or go home? That people trying to enter their house of worship just take that day off?

[sandnsea]

157. Drunk parishioners?

Drunk women inside the clinic?

Yeah, I'd prefer the church members or the doctors deal with the people as human beings than taserig someone in church or a health clinic.

[onenote]

159. excuse me? drunk parishoners? What are you babbling about?

who said anything about drunk parishoners (other than you of course)?

Anyway, I take it then, that your answer is that if a couple of bullying drunks start harassing pregnant women trying to enter a clinic, you're solution would be for the doctors to tell the patients to go home.

See, this is where we differ. I'd suggest that they call the cops and get the cops to stop the assholes that were disturbing the peace and harassing women trying to exercise their rights. And if the drunks resisted, I'd hope like hell the cops didn't just turn to the women and say...sorry, nothing we can do... you should just go home if this is upsetting you.

[sandnsea]

161. Appropriately comparing the two situations

Kids sports and Parents. Church and Parishioners. Clinic and Patients. I put the people in proper context with each other. Next thing you know you'll be trying to say I would let child molsters dance naked on the pitcher's mound to try to make your case.

[onenote]

168. would you?

[onenote]

134. what family was ruined?

The family of two abusive drunk brothers who scream obscenities at seven year olds? Here's a clue for you...that family already is in serious jeopardy.

[sandnsea]

136. Congratulations for not giving a shit

and consequently making it worse. You proposed the alternative of leaving as something abhorrent, when it seems like a perfectly logical thing to do to me. If I were in charge of such an event, that's exactly what I'd do. Stop the event and have parents take the kids home, if it were bad enough for cops to be needing to taser people.

[thirdpower]

138. Once again....

They assualted the officer and then he Tazed them. Nice little red-herrings you throw out there.

[onenote]

139. congrats for caring more about two drunk assholes than the 7-year olds

they were screaming obscenities at....

or the uniformed cop they decided to threaten..

[sandnsea]

141. If it were that bad, I'd take my kid and leave

If not, it's just another day of life that people have to learn to handle without violence. I would care about EVERYBODY involved and not think that I have some god given right to live life curse word free.

[thirdpower]

143. No, you'ld just teach you child

that running away from a problem solves it.

[onenote]

144. and what lesson do you think the ass holes would learn?

They'd be laughing their asses off about how they caused the other team to forfeit the game and how they got a cop to turn tail. They'd also do it again and again until they had some reason not to...such as getting their asses arrested.

[sandnsea]

146. Who's the bigger badass

Always boils down to that. I said if the situation was so bad that tasers were necessary, any sensible PARENT would take their child and leave. If it wasn't that bad, any respectable cop would be able to diffuse the situation without resorting to tasers. That was your premise that I responded to, that taking kids and leaving would be a repugnant response to the situation. I never said the cop should leave. And there's more important things in the world than forfeiting a game.

Forfeiting a game is worse than a kid crying and possibly put into foster care because daddy was hauled off to jail. Just... wow.

[thirdpower]

147. What a load of crap.

Now you're saying the officer didn't do his job properly when he was attacked and putting the blame on the parents. The two assholes shoulder no responsibility in your world.

Can you grasp for any more straws?

[sandnsea]

150. I never said that

I said there's always going to be people who get upset on the planet and every single one of them doesn't need to be tasered. There's a lot of ways to handle beligerent people short of tasering them or even calling the cops.

Again, I responded to a post that indicated going home would be an abhorrent way to handle such a situation because somehow or other that would be "letting the beligerents win". Now you want to call that "blaming the parents" which sounds remarkably similar to a sort hate-the-parents-first mentality.

This is all the same kind of puffed up bullying approach to problems that permeates our society. The only way to deal with anything you don't like is to punch it or shoot it.

And the wonder why there's so many assaults and murders.

[thirdpower]

153. Nice strawman...

I guess an assault on an officer doesn't merit being tazered and arrested? You so far have put all the accountability on the parents and officer, not on the ones causing problems.

[sandnsea]

154. There was no physical contact

The other parent was verbal and approached the officer 'in a threatening manner'. What.. kids' parents were at a game and one parent had the audacity to assume another parent wouldn't play "the cop card" on them? I've yelled at cops, they've never threatened to taser me. I've said a cazillion times the beligerent parents could probably have been dealt with without arrests and tasering, I never said they weren't accountable. Those are words you keep putting in my mouth, that's your straw man.

http://www.ksdk.com/news/news_article.aspx?storyid=104693

[sandnsea]

92. Our cops talk - holy schmoley, the nerve of them!

Texas??? Yeah. That's why I don't live there. Look what it brought us. George Bush Texas Justice - yeehaw!

You guys just never learn when it's staring you right in the face.

[TX-RAT]

100. Texas??? Yeah. That's why I don't live there.

Thank you, we appreciate it.

I love the way Texas gets bashed on this board, i guess the Democratic party's doing so well, they just don't need our 34 electoral votes.

[sandnsea]

105. Hey, it's your "culture"

You damned right I'll bash a state that has executed 376 people and is proud of it, spawned a President like Bush, and still refuses to see that it's your own yeehaw culture to blame.

[sandnsea]

82. Yep

Being in uniform does make a difference. Being warned by the coaches or refs before the cop got involved matters too. If the cop had taken it upon himself to impose his moral standards on other parents, if no one else were complaining, then I would have stood by my earlier position.

[Demit]

167. Yes.

I'd like to mention that anyone who thinks new information, that wasn't available before, means people must want to revise their opinions based on the original information is probably a major asshole.

[Gwerlain]

87. I've heard "subdue" several times on this thread, used as if

it's some sort of "better alternative" to using a stun gun. What do you prefer, bouncing a hickory stick off someone's skull? Squirting some mace up their nose? Maybe you like pistol-whipping them. Or punching them in the schnozz. Or putting a come-along on them. "Subduing" a 200+ pound angry primate is not a gentle process, someone's gonna get hurt, more than likely.

Assaulting the people sitting next to you in a crowd is NOT OK. Shoving a uniformed cop is just plain stupid. Instead of putting yourself in the place of the assaulter, try being one of the parents sitting next to these a$$holes.

[Bake]

111. Coaches have been assaulted, other parents assaulted, etc.

Sometimes these things can blow up into really nasty incidents. I'm no big fan of the cops, but in this case I think he did his job. I'm guessing this situation was about five seconds away from blowing up and the cop defused it -- he did so with a taser, but nobody else got hurt.

Good for him.

Bake

[onenote]

124. exactly

[TheWraith]

160. Normally I'm against the casual use of stunguns, but in this case

I can certainly apprecciate why they probably did it. I don't know about this particular incident, but parents who fly off the handle at these events tend to be rather extreme, even violent.