IRAN, IKE (CV-69) & Marines on the move, Adm. Swift posted to Bahrain, -

[FogerRox]

15th & 24th Marine Expeditionary Units on the move

Strike group sails from San Diego Sept. 13th for the Western Pacific. Includes 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit
USS howard, At Sea - The guided-missile destroyer USS Howard (DDG 83) departed from San Diego Sept. 13 for a deployment as part of Expeditionary Strike Group (ESG) 5 in support of the global war on terrorism. ESG 5 is comprised of Howard, USS Boxer (LHD 4), USS Dubuque (LPD 8), USS Comstock (LSD 45), USS Benfold (DDG 65) and USS Bunker Hill (CG 52). The strike group also includes Amphibious Squadron 5, the 15th Marine Expeditionary Unit, Coast Guard Cutter Midgett (WHEC 726) and Canadian Frigate HMCS Ottawa (FFH 341).

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,114365,00.html

24th Marine Expeditionary Unit hits the beaches of Kuwait for training
By Jennifer H. Svan, Stars and Stripes
Mideast edition, Monday, October 2, 2006
Marines and sailors deployed with the Iwo Jima Expeditionary Strike Group came ashore on a Kuwait beach Sunday to begin about a month of training in the country. The group includes Marines from the 24th Marine Expeditionary Unit at Camp Lejeune, N.C., and sailors from Beach Master Unit 2 at Naval Amphibious Base Little Creek, Little Creek, Va. The strike group is on a six-month deployment.
http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=40467



You see... another carrier group should be place by the 21st. WE are talking about more than a few Tomahawks.

USS Eisenhower to deploy to Mideast

The aircraft carrier battle group is scheduled to sail Tuesday from Norfolk to relieve the USS Enterprise. <snip> The Enterprise left Norfolk on May 2, along with the cruiser USS Leyte Gulf, the destroyer USS McFaul, the frigate USS Nicholas and the attack submarine USS Alexandria.

http://www.dailypress.com/news/local/dp-38837sy0sep28,0,6555714.story?coll=dp-news-local-final

The Eisenhower Carrier Strike Group also includes
-guided-missile cruiser USS Anzio-CG-68 :
Armament: MK26 missile launcher (CG 47 thru CG 51) Standard Missile (MR) or MK41 vertical launching system (CG 52 thru CG 73) Standard Missile (MR); Vertical Launch ASROC (VLA) Missile; Tomahawk Cruise Missile; Six MK-46 torpedoes (from two triple mounts); Two MK 45 5-inch/54 caliber lightweight guns; Two Phalanx close-in-weapons systems.
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=4200&tid=800&ct=4

-guided-missile destroyer USS Ramage-DDG-61
Armament: two MK 41 VLS for Standard missiles, Tomahawk; Harpoon missile launchers, one Mk 45 5-inch/54 caliber lightweight gun, two Phalanx CIWS, Mk 46 torpedoes (from two triple tube mounts)
http://www.navysite.de/dd/ddg61.htm

ARLEIGH BURKE - class Guided Missile Destroyer USS Mason-DDG-87
Armament 1 x 5"/62 RF, Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM), 90 VLS Cells,
2 SH-60B helicopters, 8 Harpoon Missiles, 6 x 12.75" TT.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/01087.htm

Los Angeles-class attack submarine USS Newport News-SSN-750
Carries Tomahawks:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/navy/ssn-750.htm

The Enterprise carrier group has been in the area for a while:

Enterprise, the flagship of Commander, Carrier Strike Group (CSG) 12, and Commander, Destroyer Squadron (DESRON) 2, along with Carrier Air Wing (CVW) 1, will conduct maritime security operations and fly missions in support of Operations Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom as part of U.S. Fifth Fleet while in the region.

http://www.wtkr.com/Global/story.asp?S=5355276&nav=ZolHbyvj

The Enterprise Carrier Strike Group also includes:

-guided missile cruiser USS Leyte Gulf-CG-55
Armament: MK26 missile launcher (CG 47 thru CG 51) Standard Missile (MR) or MK41 vertical launching system (CG 52 thru CG 73) Standard Missile (MR); Vertical Launch ASROC (VLA) Missile; Tomahawk Cruise Missile; Six MK-46 torpedoes (from two triple mounts); Two MK 45 5-inch/54 caliber lightweight guns; Two Phalanx close-in-weapons systems.
http://www.navy.mil/navydata/fact_display.asp?cid=4200&tid=800&ct=4

ARLEIGH BURKE - class Guided Missile Destroyer USS McFaul-DDG-74
Armament 1 x 5"/62 RF, Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM), 90 VLS Cells,
2 SH-60B helicopters, 8 Harpoon Missiles, 6 x 12.75" TT.
http://www.navsource.org/archives/05/01087.htm

the frigate USS Nicholas-FFG-47
Armament: one Mk 75 76mm/62 caliber rapid firing gun, MK 32 ASW torpedo tubes (two triple mounts), one Phalanx CIWS
http://navysite.de/ffg/FFG47.HTM

Los Angeles-class attack submarine USS Alexandria-SSN-757
Any boat of this class may launch a Tomahawk cruise missile from its horizontal torpedo tubes. The last 31 boats of this class also have 12 vertical launch tubes specifically for the purpose of launching Tomahawks.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Los_Angeles_class_submarine


The Evolved Sea Sparrow Missile (ESSM) is a short range missile intended to provide self-protection for surface ships.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/rim-162.htm

The Harpoon missile provides the Navy and the Air Force with a common missile for air, ship, and submarine launches. The weapon system uses mid-course guidance with a radar seeker to attack surface ships.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/agm-84.htm

Tactical Tomahawk Penetrator Variant missile
On 27 May 1999 Raytheon was awarded a $25,829,379 undefinitized cost-plus-incentive-fee/cost-plus-fixed-fee, ceiling amount contract for the modification of the Tactical Tomahawk missile to the Tactical Tomahawk Penetrator Variant configuration as part of the Second Counter-Proliferation Advanced Concept Technology Demonstration. The Tactical Tomahawk missile will be modified to incorporate the government-furnished penetrator warhead and the hard-target smart fuze. Four Tactical Tomahawk Penetrator Variant missiles will be assembled to conduct the advanced concept technology demonstration testing. Work will be performed in Tucson AZ and is expected to be completed by March 2003.
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/smart/bgm-109.htm

There is some info being copied all over the net, that the Eisenhower (CVN 69) is a
nuclear battleship, which I have never heard of, ever. As you can see from this picture
posted @ navy times, the Eisenhower is indeed a carrier.



Families and friends watch on the pier at Norfolk Naval Station, Va., as the aircraft carrier Dwight D. Eisenhower (CVN 69) gets underway on Tuesday. — Mass Communication Specialist 2nd Class Joshua Glassburn / U.S. Navy

NORFOLK NAVAL SHIPYARD, Va. — The Norfolk-based aircraft carrier George Washington entered the dry dock at Norfolk Naval Shipyard in Portsmouth, Va., on Sept. 29, the first step in a $300 million availability that will prepare the ship to replace the Yokosuka, Japan-based Kitty Hawk in 2008.

http://www.navytimes.com/story.php?f=1-292925-2146364.php



USS George WashingtonCVN-73.... will be in drydock, NOT heading to Iran, I would guess.... LOL.

Carrier air ops expert posted in Bahrain

Rear Adm. (lower half) Scott H. Swift has been assigned to the post at U.S. Naval Forces, U.S. Central Command, in Bahrain. Swift commanded Carrier Air Wing 14, which is assigned to the USS Abraham Lincoln.

http://www.estripes.com/article.asp?section=104&article=40502

What may be important about this promotion is that it puts an expert in carrier ops, on the ground @ COmCent. If I was about to ramp up carrier air ops, I would want an experienced air ops guy on the ground. That would be Admiral Swift.




Iranian Nuke sites from:
http://www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/world/iran/nuke-fac.htm

Bunker Busters

This is the the GBU-28 or the BLU-113, is 19 feet (5.8 meters). It weighs about 4,400 pounds. The GBU-27/GBU-24 (aka BLU-109) is nearly identical to the GBU-28, except that it weighs only 2,000 pounds (900 kg). It is less expensive to manufacture, and a bomber can carry more of them on each mission.



Air-to-air view of GBU-28 hard target bomb on an F-15E Eagle.




The MOAB weapon is based upon the same principle as the BLU-82 “Daisy Cutter”, except that it is larger and has a guidance system. The weapon is expected to produce a tremendous explosion that would be effective against hard-target entrances. From :

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/systems/munitions/moab.htm

[brettdale]

1. The Reason I say Bush wont Bomb Iran before the midterms

It will be political suicide.

[FogerRox]

2. I thought that so many times over the last 2-3 years

HAsn't stopped anything from happening.

[Tellurian]

3. I agree..Perfect excuse for him to declare Martial Law

suspending all future elections until further notice..
several weeks before the elections.

which, I am starting to believe IS his plan.

He is very unconcerned at how the Republican Party's political capital
is bankrupting itself. Not a good sign..

Further, He has already "broken" the (covenants of) Constitution and is poised
and ready to assume the Dictatorship role. The only branch of government that
can STOP him, imo, IS the SCOTUS...

This is just my opinion...for this is uncharted Constitutional territory afaic..
It's antibody's guess as to what will or won't work to stop this madman-

[FogerRox]

5. SO Tellurain, are you saying you dont trust BUSH...

LOL.

[Tellurian]

25. No, I didn't say that atall..

I trust Bush will do whatever it takes to succeed in proclaiming himself dictator of the US!

[FogerRox]

33. Ah yes, I see, I trust Bush the same way......

[gordianot]

6. I tend to reject madman but endorse madmen.

Bush is mad but he is not alone.

[Tellurian]

24. Well, then- shame on you for endorsing "madmen!"

But I do agree with you, there is more than one..:)

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

69. Do you think he'll suspend the 2nd Amendment?

Were something like you describe to occur, I'd exercise those rights in a heartbeat! :mad:

[Megahurtz]

77. Sounds Completely Possible,

or, likely.
Why else would he just be mowing over the American Public
and passing any old laws he chooses,
and doing anything that he chooses regardless of what anyone thinks?
I have never seen, or heard of, a more Wanton and Dangerous American President.:nuke:
(Of course I won't forget his Cronies that are in on it with him)

[Bad Penny]

96. that avatar is priceless

lol

[Megahurtz]

101. I like it!

:beer:

[FogerRox]

17. MORE on Rear Adm Scott H. Swift being assigned...to CENT COm in mid east

.. as deputy commander, U.S. Naval Forces, U.S. Central Command, Bahrain. Swift is currently serving as deputy executive officer for Naval Aviation and Tactical Air Systems, Office of the Secretary of Defense, Washington, D.C.

http://www.defenselink.mil/Releases/Release.aspx?ReleaseID=10030

SOooo.....Adm. Swift worked for Sec Def Rumsfeld.

I now feel a little stronger about the move to Swift @ CenT COm in Bahrain. In Essense it seems Rumsfeld has put one of his men into an important position, after a promotion earlier this year. And we all know the kind of officers that get promoted under SEC dEF Rummy.

On edit:

Adm. Swift is also President of the TAILHOOK officers ASsociation:


PRESIDENT CAPT SCOTT H. SWIFT,USN
Source: SDSU, AVROC 1979
Designation: Naval Aviator, 1980
Assignments: VA-94 (Nugget), VA-122 (Instructor), CVW-11 (CAG LSO), VA-97 (Department Head), Naval War College (Honors in Athletics), Strike Fighter Weapons School, Pacific (CO), VFA-97 (CO), OPNAV (Hornet Requirements), VFA-122 (CO), CVW-14 (CAG)
Hours/Traps: 4,000+/1,000+
Residence: Falls Church, Va.
Present Empl: Office of Under Secretary of Defense (Acquisition, Technology and Logistics/Air Warfare)
Other: 1989 U.S. Pacific Fleet Landing Signal Officer of the Year, 1992 Commander Michael G. Hoff, U.S. Pacific Fleet Attack Aviator of the Year, Participated in Operation Southern Watch, Enduring Freedom and Iraqi Freedom



http://www.tailhook.org/Officers.html

[eridani]

46. Is the following email I got B.S, or not?

Sounds sort of like BS to me, but it looks like there are some technical experts posting to this thread--

-------------------- Original Message --------------------
Subject: WHAT TO THINK OF THIS?
From: EaglesRetired {at} aol.com
Date: Mon, October 2, 2006 6:55 pm
To:



Subject: WHAT TO THINK OF THIS?
Date: 10/2/06 5:57 PM EST
Author: opalp281 {at}aol.com

I R A N

W A R

P L A N

R E V E A L E D


S I N K I N G

O F

U S S

E N T E R P R I S E

I M M I N E N T


Updated Saturday, September 30, 2006 3:04 PM EDT

IRAN WAR PLAN EXPOSED!

PREPARE FOR THE SINKING OF A U.S. AIRCRAFT CARRIER -
The USS Enterprise - CVN-65!

The existence of a hideous plan to sacrifice a U.S.
Aircraft Carrier as a
pretext for war with Iran is presently being uncovered!

The Hal Turner Show has been told that within the next
five (5) weeks, the
United States will "suffer" a missile attack upon the
aircraft carrier USS
Enterprise, presently on patrol near the Persian Gulf.
This attack will appear
to be from numerous "Silkworm" and/or "Sunburn" missiles
which will sink the
vessel and kill most of the 5,000 crew onboard.

The "attack" will be blamed on Iran and thus provide the
Bush Administration
with an excuse to go to war with that nation.

The Hal Turner Show has learned that the missiles used to
attack the USS
Enterprise will not be fired from or by Iran, but rather
will be a "false flag
operation" made to LOOK as though Iran carried out the
attack!

The USS Enterprise is the worlds first nuclear powered
aircraft carrier. It
was Commissioned in 1961 and is due to be decommissioned
in 2014 or 2015. The
ship was selected to be the "victim" of this "attack" due
to its age.

THOSE PLANNING THE ATTACK ARE INSIDE THE U.S. AND ISRAELI
GOVERNMENTS and
view the loss of the Enterprise crew as a necessary
sacrifice to induce
Americans to support war against Iran. Put bluntly, the
ship and crew are to be
cannon fodder.

I am being fed more information and expect to be able to
name names as to
who is behind this plan. Check back often.
LIBERTY REDUX | Homepage | 10.01.06 - 10:09 am

Found on Rawstory message board




Here is the DRESS REHEARSAL for the sinking of the USS
Enterprise:


_http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-05-17-ship-reef_x.htm_
(http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2006-05-17-ship-reef_x.htm)
...

Aircraft carrier sunk in Gulf of Mexico to create
artificial reef
Updated 5/17/2006 4:38 PM ET

N THE GULF OF MEXICO (AP) -- As hundreds of veterans
looked on solemnly,
Navy divers blew holes in a retired aircraft carrier and
sent the 888-foot USS
Oriskany to the bottom of the sea Wednesday, forming the
world's largest
deliberately created artificial reef.

Clouds of brown and gray smoke rose in the sky after more
than 500 pounds of
plastic explosives went off. The rusted hulk took about
45 minutes to slip
beneath the waves, about four hours faster than predicted.

VIDEO: Navy ship sunk to create reef

Korean and Vietnam War veterans aboard charter boats
watched from beyond a
one-mile safety perimeter as the "Mighty O" went down in
212 feet of water,
about 24 miles off Pensacola Beach.

Lloyd Quiter of North Collins, N.Y., who served four
tours on the ship in
Vietnam, wept.

"I'm a little stunned. It's a little hard to take," he said.




AND WHY DID THEY FEEL THE NEED FOR THE DRESS REHEARSAL?


BECAUSE WHEN THEY TRIED IT A YEAR EARLIER, IT TOOK 25
DAYS TO SINK THE USS
AMERICA WITH HIGH EXPLOSIVES!

_http://www.cdnn.info/news/industry/i050522a.html_
(http://www.cdnn.info/news/industry/i050522a.html) ...


USS America 1048-ft aircraft carrier sunk off North Carolina
Powered by CYBER DIVER News Network

NORTH CAROLINA (22 May 2005) -- The retired aircraft
carrier USS America is
on the bottom of the Atlantic Ocean, sunk by the Navy in
a series of
explosive tests that upset some veterans.

The 84,000-ton, 1,048-foot warship that served the Navy
for 32 years rests
about 60 miles off the coast and more than 6,000 feet
down, according to Pat
Dolan, a spokeswoman for Naval Sea Systems Command.

She did not give a location, but the Navy previously said
the explosions
would take place off North Carolina.

Dolan said the America went down May 14, finally flooded
after the series of
explosions over 25 days. No announcement was made at the
time.

[Subdivisions]

47. My Grandfather helped build the USS Enterprise. I sure hope

that it is not sacrificed to justify a war with Iran.

[MADem]

62. This latest one? There have been a couple of them NT

[Subdivisions]

91. Yes, he helped build the current one (CVN-65). The older one

was the Yorktown Class carrier USS Enterprise - (CV-6) of World War II fame.

The current USS Enterprise - (CVn-65) is nicknamed “Big E” (although some call her “the starship”, in reference to the famous Star Trek ship) and her name is well known throughout the world.

[MADem]

99. I always called her Big E.... NT

[Imagevision]

87. K&R!!!

[FogerRox]

50. someone posted that on my last troop movement post.

I dunno, But I remember the Gulf of Tonkin incident, which is similar to the sinking of the Battleship Maine.

[Tellurian]

54. The only possible way..

we can stop the potentiality of a strike on Iran, in the best interests of saving our 5000
men stationed on the USS Enterprise is, what else, a leak. Woodward might be helpful in an
advisory capacity. I'm sure there is plenty of information he's gathered for his book that
has gone unpublished. Also, he has direct newspaper publication access.

[Megahurtz]

74. NOTHING would surprize me

with this Administration.
God I hope it's not true, but the tactics are all too familiar. :scared:

[DrDebug]

81. USS Maine / La Coubre / USS Maddox. It's standard operating procedure

The best way to start a war is by sinking one of your own ships. I think that the USS Entertainment is slightly too large and assume that they use a smaller ship.

[eridani]

92. That was my thought

Way too expensive for a false flag operation. Seriously, does this deserve its own OP?

[DrDebug]

97. It won't get much replies, but it's a good history lesson

The email is of course speculative, but a short history on USS Maine (very effective) and also why Le Coubre failed, because Operation 40 didn't blow up one of their own ships, so Castro choose to ignore that and media were not interested because there were no US casualties.

The vessels are going to Iran to be used, and the United Nations will not allow another pre-emptive war. So there are two options, either provoke Iran to attack them which is highly unlikely because they are not stupid, or a false flag attack. And what better way then sinking one of your own vessels and then cry outrage over killing a couple of hunderd soldiers. And voila, you can start your precious war, claim popular support for Bush in the media as a means to hide the upcoming Election Fraud, etc.

And talking about Maine, because that was against Spain. It is not the first time that a war was started just before an election. The following failed coup happened just before the Spanish election of 2004 and was also meant as a election program for Rajoy - Aznar's successor:

The Oil Dispute in Equatorial Guinea
France Checkmated NATO
ARTHUR LEPIC

The spectacular arrest of Mark Thatcher (British Iron Lady’s son) in South Africa and the confessions of his accomplices in Zimbabwe and Equatorial Guinea clarified completely the fail coup against this country. The operation was not organized by adventurers or mercenaries paid by international financiers, but by NATO. The U.S. had mobilized the British and Spanish services to overthrow President Teodoro Obiang and take control of the country to build the largest gas-liquefying station of the world. By doing this, the U.S. would have taken the French oil company Total out of the market thus favoring Spanish Repsol. But France knew about the operation and made it fail.

(...)

At the moment in which the plan entered its final stage and mercenaries were ready to act, two Spanish warships suddenly set sail from a NATO base in Rota, with 500 elite soldiers on board. It seemed that only they knew what their destiny was and Spain had not sent any warship to Equatorial Guinea since the independence of this African country in 1968.

(...)

http://www.voltairenet.org/article30088.html

P.S. I meant to write USS Enterprise in the other post (and not USS Entertainment LOL)

[Gman]

11. The GOP has pretty much shot theirselves in the ass anyway

besides, Bush-Cheney et al really don't give a damn about anyone else. I can see them defying everyone, even Congress to go start a war claiming they already have the authority to do so. If you or I don't agree, and we express that, we're now officially enemy combatants and can and will be imprisoned.

[TexasLawyer]

22. It WOULD be political suicide

in the days of functioning elections. These days, they can do what they want.

[mom cat]

4. Holy shitzolla.Go to the Greatest Page where you belong!

:kick:

[Subdivisions]

7. Military Build-up for War with Iran Accelerating

I was going to make this a post on the main GD page but I'll just tack it onto this one.

Here are a collection of threads on DU discussing the "under the radar" military build-up that's going on under our noses:

Motivation:

US: Iran Could Have Nuclear Bomb in Four (to Nine) Years

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2542892

Rumsfeld: Venezuela Build-Up Is Concern

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2541474

AP: Iran Suggest France Enrich Its Uranium

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2541887

Israelis Reach Out to Arab NationsThat Share Fear of Ascendant Iran

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2542469

House approves Iran Freedom Support Act

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=2534654

Military Movement:

15th & 24th Marine Expeditionary Units on the move

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2301544

Naval build-up in the Persian Gulf and the Eastern Mediterranean

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ar&u=http://english.alarabonline.org/display.asp?fname=2006%5C10%5C10-02%5Czopinionz%5C963.htm&dismode=x&ts=01/10/2006%2011:05:41%20%C3%A3

20,000 Sailors Go To War - Massive US and Allied Naval Deployment

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2294135&mesg_id=2294135

WHY THE IRAN ATTACK MAY BE IMMINENT

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=364&topic_id=2294135&mesg_id=2294135

[FogerRox]

9. Great idea, welcome Tex Exp

[Subdivisions]

16. Thanx, FogerRox! Though the Foley thing is important, I firmly

believe that it was intended to cover up other activities. So, for the past 4 days or so, I've been trying to foster this discussion so that it see the light of day.

[FogerRox]

36. I can not dissagree with that.

[chill_wind]

21. Well done T.E. & R,F. Thank you for this! Bookmarking. nt

[chill_wind]

8. Kick and recommend!

Don't even want to think what else Rumsfeld has extorted from Congress and and taxpayers for his classified blackops budget on top of what we can see here. A few billion in lost and misplaced appropriations could pay for a lot of Pentagon toys they might be just itching to try. (Not that all this alone wouldn't do a lot of devastation.)

[bleever]

10. Excellent compilation.

K&R.

[niallmac]

12. Reminds me of the Good Ship Hope

As a child I remember the shock of discovering that amidst all my excitement over battle ships and aircraft carriers there was this white ship with doctors and nurses
on it that sailed to other countries armed only with expertise and good will. The idea that a battle group could be formed that projected hope instead of
death was a mind blower to me.

All the armament and war technology described above is still awe inspiring to the child in me but I understand
that it is really only high tech death and destruction, a sure sign of a 'failure to communicate.'

Could we ever get the public to get juiced up about convoys that go about eliminating chaos, disease and (dare I say it?)
over population? Could we all get so excited about actually using our immense power not to spread our idea
of god but our idea of concern?

Could we do these things so people would have to consider for a moment that the United States of America
is not populated by utter and complete assholes?

Yes I know. Iran could build a nuclear 'device' and threaten Israel. What if we spent all the preceding years communicating
with people and assisting mutual understanding and helping all people attain common goals like health and security instead of
busily insuring the safety of our coprorations?

Some will slap me down for my dreamy idealism but I maintain that what I speak of is pragmatic, brass tacks
realism that can only benefit all of us.

[Kolesar]

29. ^--- I would like to recommend this post

[FogerRox]

53. thanks

[The Wielding Truth]

65. This direction (if we survive *)will be taken under Democratic Leadership.

No reason seeds can't be planted now though. Thank you for sharing the vision of peaceful communications. The future is still in our hands and there is always a place for a prince of peace. We never need a War President. Freedom is Free. Oppression is Costly.

[Subdivisions]

13. Rice: time running out in dealing with Iran's nuke issue

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2006-10/04/content_5168040.htm

Rice: time running out in dealing with Iran's nuke issue

CAIRO, Oct. 3 (Xinhua) -- Visiting U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice said here on Tuesday night that the international community was "running out of time" in dealing with Iran's nuclear program.

"I hope that there is still room to resolve this, but the international community is running out of time," she said.

Rice made her remarks at a joint press conference with Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Abul Gheit after a group meeting with foreign ministers from Egypt, Jordan plus the six nations of the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) -- Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, United Arab Emirates, Oman, Qatar and Kuwait. Watch Videos >>>

Rice said that Iran should have the right of access to civil nuclear program but should not be allowed to have nuclear weapons.

[leveymg]

59. Double-entendre: Time running out for Rice to deal with Iran (and

everything else, except assisting her defense team).

This stuff isn't happening in isolation from the press of domestic political and legal consequences for her perjury and mishandling of everything from 9/11 to the run-up to the Iraq invasion.

Like the others in the Bush bunker, she's toast.

[TomInTib]

14. That's it. I am cancelling my Iran vacation plans. k&r

This is too large and acelerated to be a bluff.

Those fuckers are really going to pull something in a desperate, last-ditch attempt to shore up ratings and save the elections.

Bastards.

[lyonn]

76. bush has got to put his goals of World domination

in high gear. Elections coming up and there is a slight chance he may lose his votes in the House or Senate that he needs to keep everything and everyone in the dark about his administrations lofty goals.

Keep this issue on the front page.

[Selatius]

15. If we go to war with Iran, we will destroy ourselves.

If war happens, everybody in the world will look in horror at the US. Our economy will be destroyed, and we will likely be embargoed by large swaths of the world, and we will become a pale shadow of what we once were. We will become a decrepit ex-superpower looking for another handout.

[Subdivisions]

18. I'm afraid you may be not far off the mark, if not bullseyed. That

is why it is important that we don't get distracted by Foley and other things, as important as those stories are. Fact is, this is a massive military movement and they only have one chance and one month in which to make their move.

[kineneb]

86. Exactly right-

from Imperial Rome to Dark Ages Italy... with time compression applied.

[MethuenProgressive]

19. Excellent information

thank you

[Jcrowley]

20. As an aside

the US Navy uses 17% of the world's diesel fuel.

K&R

[FogerRox]

30. 17%, a veritable bargin......

LOL

[chill_wind]

34. Whoah. I had no idea. And I bet I'm not alone. This is CRAZY!

afterdowningstreet site has an Iran page with a cited zogby poll re:

9 Percent of Americans Favor Attacking Iran
http://www.afterdowningstreet.org/node/14394

http://www.zogby.com/news/ReadNews.dbm?ID=1174

[Jcrowley]

38. You're not alone

Now hold onto your hat for this one. An f-16 fighter jet uses more fuel in two hours than the average American motorist uses in two years. The actual figure is ONE hour but I tend to understate so as to avoid being involved in meaningless debates on details. Don't even want to get into how much fuel one battalion uses with it's mile long convoy of gas-guzzling support vehicles.

So who's the greatest threat to life on Earth? Who puts more pollutants upon land, sea and air than any other entity? Who's the greatest "contributor" to greenhouse gasses? The Pentagon and all it's support mechanisms, all it's enablers from Universities, Senators, Media.... the all of it.

[UTUSN]

23. While I'm sure all of this info is readily available and I'm as anti-Shrub

as anybody, posting troop movements and capabilities is a big personal no-no for me.

[FogerRox]

28. I would recommend you dont post troops movements then, OK ?

ANd stay away from google too, I wouldn't want you to get tempted.

[leveymg]

55. This sort of post can serve several purposes simultaneously:

1) Contributes to ongoing psywar program to convince Iran that the U.S. is really going to preemptively attack its nuclear facilities, despite and in spite of the consensus of intelligence analysis and military advice that has rejected that course of action as quiet likely to fail militarily and politically in the near-term, and counter-productive to U.S. interests in the long-term.

2) Feeds into the "Crazy Nixon" myth created that Bush-Cheney are unchecked and all-powerful actors, able and likely to act irrationally and unilaterally to initiate a preemptive military strike against Iran, even though such a course is known to be opposed by a consensus of the U.S. military and the intelligence community. This program goal supports program goal #1, above.

3) Contributes to generalized hysteria and tendancy toward depression thought to afflict some within the Left-wing of the Democratic Party. War propaganda could also potentially provoke irrational or illegal responses by individuals within that target group. Such a response would benefit the GOP and could justify domestic law enforcement programs, such as enhanced monitoring and countersubversion measures.

4) Useful for sampling on-line reader feedback, as a means of measuring the effectiveness of program goal #3, above.

5) May provide investigative leads to identify Iran sympathizers who may forward information about reported U.S. force movements contained within these messages to Iranian intelligence.

6) Any actual response detected as described at #5, above, would likely prompt more active measures by law enforecement and military intelligence to monitor, disrupt and suppress this site -- an annoying center for information and organizing efforts by the Left-wing of the Democratic Party -- supporting all above program goals.

That's why you shouldn't be posting half-baked crap about U.S. force movements against Iran at DU. Many of us have noticed similar messages that have appeared in waves on this and other progressive sites. Like most disinformation, your post is at least partially factual, but foreseeably has a misleading and malicious effect.

[FogerRox]

71. Sure. Which is why the only editorializing I did, was on Adm. Swift.

[lyonn]

79. Your theory has merit, but - -

With this administration logic gets lost. If people relate where troop movement is or is going what makes you think it's a secret?

[teryang]

82. I tend to agree

Also the widespread availability of operational indicators normally carefully controlled, such as ship deployment schedules related to real world operational requirements, suggests psy war and political posturing for domestic pre-election coverage as well as bluffing vis a vis Iraq.

The sanctions passed by Congress are a joke. Asia Times reported a couple of days ago that sources within the administration (not named) admitted that a military solution to Irans defiance of the ultimatum and deadline was a dead letter. This would reveal plainly that neo-con foreign policy in the mideast is in a complete shambles and a total failure.

All the stories could be disinformation. As it stands right now, the pretzeldent gets it both ways. Nobody can be sure that he completely caved on Iran when the Pentagon from top to bottom indicated opposition to an unworkable plan at least per the stated objective to undermine the nuclear program in Iran. If the objective is just to destroy Iranian power by beginning a policy of poorly justified attacks and crippling their infrastructure, that may take place.

Asia times concluded that it would be up to the Israelis to attack. As the proxy force, they would necessarily have to have US support. We control the airspace. They would also need our help. It would be convenient if Israel started it. If things go badly, at least events would readily provide an excuse for us to get directly involved. The neocons could then claim falsely that we have no control over Israel, they didn't want war but it just happened.

The outcome economically and politically will be catastrophic.

[roamer65]

26. Raisinbrain will start war with Iran becuase...

he does not care about the GOP. Bush ONLY CARES ABOUT Bush. He will start the conflict to try make it more difficult to remove him from office. He knows the bigger the conflict, the more uneasy people will be about removing him. I hope he is wrong.

[FogerRox]

51. Humpf, an insult to raisins everywhere

[Subdivisions]

27. US Iran Report Branded Dishonest; by the UN

http://www.coastalpost.com/06/10/03a.html

US Iran Report Branded Dishonest; Bush Ramping Up For Another War

The UN nuclear watchdog has protested to the US government over a report on Iran's nuclear programme, calling it "erroneous" and "misleading".

In a leaked letter, the IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency) said a congressional report contained serious distortions of the agency's own findings on Iran's nuclear activity.

The IAEA also took "strong exception" to claims made over the removal of a senior safeguards inspector.

There was no immediate comment from Washington over the letter.

But Rep Rush Holt, a Democratic member of the House intelligence committee, which released the report, said it had never been meant for release to the public.

"This report was not ready for prime time and it was not prepared in a way that we can rely on. It relied heavily on unclassified testimony," he told the BBC's PM programme.

'Deja vu'

Signed by a senior director at the International Atomic Energy Agency, Vilmos Cserveny, the letter raises objections over the committee's report released on 23 August.

[driver8]

31. I spent three and a half years on the USS Eisenhower.

Two Med cruises and a Persian Excursion. We were in Italy when Saddam invaded Kuwait -- a couple of days later we were going through the Suez Canal into the Red Sea.

I wish the men and women of Ike well...and I'm glad I'm not with them.

[FogerRox]

Welcome back.

[driver8]

35. Thanks...hard to believe Saddam invaded Kuwait 16 years ago.

It seems like yesterday to me.

I have now been out of the Navy for 15 years and I can honestly say that I have never missed it -- not once!

[MGD]

42. If we invade Iran, you may just get to spend a few more years on the Ike.

And I may get a chance to finally see the wonders of the Middle-East... from the turret of a Bradly Fighting Vehicle. Know what I mean man?

[FogerRox]

49. Hopefully a m-117, not the Bradlee

[TheCentepedeShoes]

44. When did the Ike first set sail?

I know I saw it anchored off Charlotte Amalie in '79. And it had been in service for quite awhile before that.

[driver8]

48. Christened in 1977...

Here you go:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Dwight_D._Eisenhower_(CVN-69)

[Subdivisions]

32. U.N. diplomats: Iran talks appear to have failed

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20061003-1321-iran-nuclear.html

U.N. diplomats: Iran talks appear to have failed

NEW YORK – Iran's refusal to freeze uranium enrichment has sabotaged talks meant to defuse the standoff over its nuclear program, opening the way for the U.N. Security Council to start considering sanctions next week, senior U.N. diplomats said Tuesday.

The diplomats spoke on condition of anonymity, citing agreement not to publicly pronounce the talks dead before a final attempt by European Union envoy Javier Solana and Ali Larijani, Tehran's chief nuclear negotiator, to bridge differences in a phone call scheduled for Wednesday.

But with both sides standing firm, “the talks are considered a failure,” even in key European capitals that had favored negotiations over U.N. sanctions, said one of the diplomats, adding the Larijani-Solana phone call could focus on nothing more than how to publicly acknowledge that the discussions had failed.

John Bolton, the U.S. ambassador to the United Nations, told The Associated Press: “It's only a very short time before we'll be seeking sanctions,” unless Iran complies with international demands to suspend enrichment. And, he added, “there is not a single sign that they're prepared to give up” the activity, which can be used to make fissile material to arm nuclear warheads.

[leveymg]

57. What's failed are Bolton's efforts to get the UNSC to impose sanctions

The international community isn't going to impose sanctions because they know the Bush Administration could again manipulate such a gesture as carte blanche to wage war.

Unilateral American sanctions would be another acknowledgement of the futility and isolation of the Bush Administration's Iran policy.

[Blackhatjack]

37. I am continually amazed at the resources that appear here, good job!

I have been trying to direct some attention to this matter before it proceeds past the point of no return.

People think that Bush can be stopped at the last minute. What they do not realize is that this whole thing is already taking place in slow motion, under the radar. And once the first act of hostilty is alleged to have occurred, it most likely will be too late to regain the ground we are presently standing on.

I just see this moving ahead without any further authorization from Congress, and the rest of us are along for a very rough ride.

And I go further, I do not think there is any way we get out of the Iran conflict without the implementation of a draft. It cannot be done with just an air strike, and we have no ready troops in reserve to meet the challenge that the Iranian forces will bring to the conflict, not to mention the sympathetic alliance of Iraqis in attacking our troops in Iraq now.

[chill_wind]

39. You too. I hope we've included your thread in here somewhere above

as well, or maybe it was included here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2300091

If not I hope you will link to it again. Feels like a bunch of us have been ripping our hair out trying variously to get some of this info out of the basement for several days. I'm relieved and appreciative to all who've broken thru and to see so much of it being pulled together.

[FogerRox]

40. What really scares me is the potential for large loss of life

Rumsfeld is in no way capable of doing things the right/best way. Rumsfeld is a republican who cannot run a military operation. He has fucked up everything he has touched. And by all accounts he will continue to do so.

Let say the Attack on Iran doen;t happen... but what if Iran helps out Iraq be supplying arms, not used AK-47s but good weapons. THe Iraqis could turn on US troops and slaughter them before we would know it. Can you imagine US forces in Iraq, defending BAgdad, surrounded by Iraqis? THat could get real ugly, real fast.

Thats why we need to take the HILL, Capitol Hill, take Congress back, DO IT NOW.

[MGD]

43. What really scares me is the potential for an involuntary call up

I think an invasion of Iran would lead to the draft once again too.

[roamer65]

78. The draft will be the beginning of the end of the United States

The country will be very close to civil war due to mass protests and riots.

[roamer65]

80. You all forget Venezuela...

Remember Chavez has pledged COMPLETE support for Iran. We bomb and Venezuelan oil will be shut off to the US immediately.

[MGD]

90. That is a probability whether we bomb/invade Iran or not

However, as it stands now, Chavez needs us as much as we need him; although, he is struggling to fix that.

[slaveplanet]

95. All sorts of bad things

could happen, and they could happen very quickly.

You've got the VZ angle.
but there's also this...

Bushco strikes Iran, and the Chinese will be none too happy.
A couple of things could happen.

Although the second one is unlikely until we're fully entrenched.

China uses their rapid strike forces and swipe back Taiwan as collateral for all their Iranian investments.
Or they could go even crazier and use their proxy N korea to lob some missiles about.

But the chances of them sitting back and doing nothing are between zero and nil.

either way...kiss the FRN(pseudodollar)goodbye.

[MGD]

88. We have brand new legislation for just such an occasion.

We also have many mass-detention facilities across the united states which will serve nicely as political re-education camps. Just you try to resist.

[leveymg]

58. You just gave the primary reasons the Joint Chiefs have opposed this.

They're not going to roll with a program they KNOW is going to fail, and fail disastrously, AGAIN.

[bloom]

41. Like I posted elsewhere...

I realize that people can think about more than one thing but I'm starting to think that the entire Foley thing is meant to be a distraction against this - so people's attention in diverted.

Like the top story says: "ABC: It Was Republicans NOT Dems Who Were Its Sources For Foley Story"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2302660

(that's my tinfoil for the day :tinfoilhat: ).


This is a so much bigger deal. Like an elephant compared to an ant.


I think that they would rather do without millions of people protesting - and so they are doing away with announcing the war to the public. Maybe they'll wait until all the ships are in place. Maybe they won't bother at all.

[Subdivisions]

45. Welcome aboard! Spread the word about this build-up to war.

[FearofFutility]

52. After reading The One Percent Doctrine

I believe that it's only a matter of when. I predict it will be after the elections.

[leveymg]

56. Only if the GOP keeps control over both houses of Congress.

Even then, I think it's unlikely. The brass and the career bureaucracy are dead-set against this. Opposition is much more deep-seated than before Iraq.

[FearofFutility]

98. Thank you

I'm stepping back from the ledge........................

[grizmaster]

60. excellent work

[Blackhatjack]

61. This Thread Is The Most Comprehensive So I Linked to It in recent OP

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2308463

[MADem]

63. To respond to your question, Ike is a Nuke--all our carriers are now

save the Shitty Kitty (USS KITTY HAWK) which is stationed in Japan.

There is some info being copied all over the net, that the Eisenhower (CVN 69) is a
nuclear battleship, which I have never heard of, ever.

NUKE refers to the power plant, the method of propulsion.

The Shitty Kitty will become razor blades in 2008, and she's the last of the non-nuke operational carriers.

[FogerRox]

66. Ike is not a battleship, though. Which I found at 3 sites.

[MADem]

68. See my post. I said CARRIER. NT

[FogerRox]

70. Check, I didn't see not-a-battleship, & wanted to be clear on that

And I posted a pic of Ike leaving home, it does kinda look like a carrier...... LOL.

TO me, to see a post on the internet, stating the Ike is a "Nuke Battleship", makes me think the poster was either sleep deprived, or not cognizant on these points. So I don't think it was a typo.

[MADem]

72. Well, we have no battleships any more, haven't for decades

After Reagan did that ill-advised dragging out of mothballs exercise, we realized that they cost too much to run, were too hard to retrofit, and didn't give us bang for our buck. To say nothing of the crew complement when personnel challenges mandate smart ship technology. And then there was IOWA...that was a total mess.

I figured it was a typo, or a 'misspeak' but then perhaps I'm assuming that something obvious to me (like we have no battleships on the active rosters) is obvious to everyone....

[FogerRox]

75. Me too.

"I figured it was a typo, or a 'misspeak' but then perhaps I'm assuming that something obvious to me (like we have no battleships on the active rosters) is obvious to everyone...."

Now having a "Nuke Battleship", well, WTF ? LOL. My dad told me about watching a BB fire 16" shells, on radar from his escort carrier, late in WW2, Philippines I'm guessing.

[Blackhatjack]

64. Anyone Else Frustrated By Total Coverage Blackout Of This Operation?

I am just totally amazed that Americans can have their attention diverted entirely by the MSM covering a scandal that revolves around past sexual misconduct and ignores the obvious threat posed by a threat that will certainly affect every American.

Where is the sanity? The intelligence? Where are the patriots who should be ringing every warning bell available?

[Subdivisions]

73. And the hits that keep the American people pre-occupied just

keep right on a-comin' what with the Fordham/Hastert thing brewing just now.

[Megahurtz]

103. And no mention of This Deployment

on the MSN. How convenient. While America is asleep.:boring:

[Imagevision]

67. Marine Units on the move increased since Foley mess, - 34 days to election

[madrchsod]

83. we will lose thousands of sailors and marines

a good number of our fleet will be sunk or crippled. the oil and gas from iran,saudi arabia,and kuwait will stop flowing creating a world wide depression.hundreds of thousands of iranians and others will be killed by the fallout. there will be terrorist strikes against all things american through out the world and here at home. the iraqi`s will stop fighting among themselves and destroy our troops and equipment in iraq.
that is what will happen.

[FogerRox]

84. exactly madrchsod, Just keepin an eye on stuff

Ike is to replace Enterprise, normal rotation.

[roamer65]

85. Yup...World War III.

[Megahurtz]

89. KICK. n/t

[jarnocan]

93. Will have a beer and do more tomorrow ! WE really can'tr wait!

It's the biggest thing- we can do right now to help prevent this horror! We are living in very dangerous times.

www.worldcantwait.net

[Tellurian]

94. KR

:kick:

[Megahurtz]

100. Yep. Beer in the meantime!

:beer: Stressed out. :silly:

I just don't know why more DUers are not focused on this. This is truly scary!:scared:

[Dover]

102. I think the additional troops recently sent to Iraq is part of the buildup

in preparation for an assault on Iran, rather than the "official" reason given, which was for increased security in Baghdad and surrounding areas to stem increased violence.

Both this troop buildup and an increased budget for the military engagement in Iraq just passed by Congress regardless of their rhetoric about pulling out, spells out their real intentions.