When precisely did we become such a mean-ass, greedy, hateful, mindless,..

[Just Me]

,...self-serving, violent, deceptive culture? :shrug:

Okay,...I take that back because the VAST majority of common folk I know do NOT embrace the philosophy and politics of those in charge.

Here's the question: when did we become a culture that ACCEPTS such mean-ass, greedy, hateful, mindless, violent, self-serving, deceptive, CRIMINAL leaders and suck-up pundits? :shrug:

When and how did it happen? What is necessary to correct it and prevent it from happening in the future?

Seriously. Is the state of this nation the result of unleashed greed (i.e. "capitalism"), opaque governance and inappropriate religious intrusiveness? How did this happen? We are RIGHT IN THE MIDST of fascism (a corporate-controlled government) with a blend of theocracy (forced imposition of religion),...and, I'm sorry BUT such was precisely the precursors to the absolute worst horror in human history.

My greatest concern: how far will the pendulum be allowed to swing?

Presently, the state of this nation seriously defies every belief handed down to me: every single one, in civics and community and personally and professionally and spiritually as a former Christian (or present one since I still embrace the teachings of Christ but have reject "the church").

I have irreconcilable differences with "what is" in this nation. Help me solve them and create a plan to correct and prevent, in simple terms, such breathtaking violations of both humanity and democracy.

[marmar]

1. Problem is...

The majority of people don't embrace those things...but they're not willing to stand up to a government that does. Not willing yet, anyway.

[WildEyedLiberal]

2. Complete ignorance

You'd be shocked at how completely little the average person knows about anything that matters. All the information we receive is filtered through one of perhaps eight gigantic multinational corporations who have a vested interest in a contented, distracted, blissfully ignorant populace. Bread and circuses...

[Just Me]

9. Well, no, I wouldn't be surprised by the ignorance since I was ignorant,..

,...not so long ago. Nevertheless, as a human being, I KNEW something was wrong: reality did not match the rhetoric. I just don't think ignorance, alone, explains the state of this nation.

I acknowledge the existence of ignorance. However, the intentional, even unintentional manipulation of reality plays a huge role in this living nightmare. I want to pin down those who are INTENTIONALLY manipulating others,...for sure. Those frauds and cons MUST be reigned in some way.

I definitely believe that intentional misrepresentation BY ANYONE, no matter who the f*ck they are, must be a crime, period.

[tsuki]

3. The Culture of Corruption is not with the politicians, either Repug or

Dem. The real Culture of Corruption is in the journalistic community that has abandoned their posts to fill their pockets and spew bias, propaganda. Without the Culture of Corruption in the "News" rooms, the politicians would be held accountable.

[Surya Gayatri]

4. The rot has been encroaching

for over 30 years. Look back to Ray-gun's regime to find the first unhealthy roots in the "Me" generation. When untrammeled greed became not only acceptable, but openly desirable, the social malaise was set to run riot. SG

[sendero]

20. Exactly.

.... I put the beginning as occuring in 1980. The culture and mindset of the country started going awry when Reagan came to office.

[tabasco]

25. Yeah, I was gonna say sometime in the Reagan administration.

It seems that's when the republicans became absolutely ruthless to obtain power.

The sad fact is that many consider Reagan a great president, rather than a corrupt figurehead for a criminal gang.

Reagan taught the republicans that they could gouge and steal from the American people, as long as they had enough propaganda to cover it up.

Reagan's notable accomplishments:
1. Selling/providing weapons to both sides in a war (Iraq/Iran).
2. Providing chemical weapons to Saddam Hussein (nerve agent precursors).
3. Selling weapons to Ayatollah Khomeini to raise money to illegally supply rebels in Nicaragua (against an elected government).

Of course, Bush 1 was behind all this crime, and Reagan was certainly aware of it, but they all came out scot free. Iran/Contra. That's when the republicans got dangerous - when they found out they could engage in their crimes without repercussion.

[TallahasseeGrannie]

5. Nothing new here

That's humanity. Always has been.

You can only prevent it in yourself and perhaps, if you're lucky, in your children.

I'm sorry if that is harsh, but we humans haven't changed very much since the trees. Remember, during the Revolution there were Tories who were quite happy being under the British thumb. Some were greedy, some self-serving and some just to busy to give a damn.

I'm glad you care.

[Surya Gayatri]

23. True, Grannie, nothing new

under the sun in respect of basic human nature. But, what I think the OP is lamenting is the incredible breadth and depth of this present episode of human degeneracy. SG

[TallahasseeGrannie]

28. Yeah, it's still a sewer.

Try and stay away from the biggest rats.

[Solly Mack]

6. The first day "we" decided to take the land from it's original inhabitants

just saying...

Take hope - there have been good periods since that time....maybe there will be good periods again.

[stillcool]

7. I think it's human nature....

that power corrupts. The problem is global, and I think until we seperate our government from global corporations, and open up the policy's and operations of the Pentagon to Congressional approval, those in governement are confined in their ability to govern. There is so much in history and in the present that is done by our government with 'reasonable deniability'. Administration's lawyers work endlessly to find new ways to subvert the law. Then Congress enacts laws with the goal of that law being advantageous to those they are beholden to. The idea of a 'remedy' is as trite as the 'Geneva Conventions'.

[chefgirl]

8. Just a theory

Well, if you ask me, it was right around the time of the rise of Rush Limbaugh and his ilk.

I can remember at least 15 years ago being furious with that pig eyed sack of shit, and his rabble rousing.

Never, in my wildest dreams, did I ever think that kind of wholesale hate mongering would gain a real foothold in this country.

While its true, there have always been elements in this country who celebrate hatefulness, this current wave of mean-ass, greedy, hateful, deceptive, ugly Americanism, I think can be traced back to the rise of hate radio.

Especially chilling if you read about the conflict in Rwanda, and its origin. The government there has even gone so far as to ban that kind of 'hate radio' now, because of the lessons learned.

That the little idiot exacerbates it, and makes it not only acceptable but even desirable, to display your hate and intolerance, is what has really enabled the lowest common denominator in our society.

I could come up with about a million solutions, but, until we disinfect Washington, I'm afraid we're stuck with what we've got now.

-chef-

[Just Me]

15. Yep. I watched "Hotel Rwanda" and had exactly the same reaction.

HATE RADIO. They profit off anti-Americanism: intentionally dividing Americans against themselves.

On the other hand, a form of desperation MUST exist for these hate-mongers to succeed. I believe there are elements of desperateness in this country that is intentionally hidden from view. We have literally tens of millions of people suffering poverty no matter how hard they work. We have tens of millions of women and children still subject to violence. We have disabled and oppressed being denigrated as less than human due to circumstances beyond their control.

It seems we are NOT evolving but rather DEVOLVING. It makes me sad to witness such things at the hands of true despots who don't give a shit about anyone other than themselves.

[jazzjunkysue]

10. That would be Nov. 4, 2000.

[ageofdeception]

11. I so wish people could stop being played and talk about the issues.

I teach, and believe that only through open honest communication can we come to any consensus. I am openly dismayed by how we have been set up to fight among ourselves played by the powerful.
Divided we fall.


Case in point: How do you respond when your Principal sends out an email that the following should be used in Social Studies class in New York State? Asking for your collective wisdom.

Should I respond, if so how?

Email sent to the Social Studies Department from the Principal of a High School Teacher
Subject: Democrat vs Republican

Thought this might open up some healthy discussions in your classes.
Principal John Smith

A young woman was about to finish her first year of college. Like so many
others her age, she considered herself to be a very liberal Democrat, and
was very much in favor of the redistribution of wealth.

She was deeply ashamed that her father was a rather staunch Republican, a
feeling she openly expressed. Based on the lectures that she had
participated in, and the occasional chat with a professor, she felt that
her father had for years harbored an evil, selfish desire to keep what he
thought should be his.

One day she was challenging her father on his opposition to higher taxes
on the rich and the addition of more government welfare programs. The
self-professed objectivity proclaimed by her professors had to be the
truth and she indicated so to her father.

He responded by asking how she was doing in school. Taken aback, she
answered rather haughtily that she had a 4.0 GPA, and let him know that
it was tough to maintain, insisting that she was taking a very difficult
course load and was constantly studying, which left her no time to go out
and party like other people she knew. She didn't even have time for a
boyfriend, and didn't really have many college friends because she spent
all her time studying.

Her father listened and then asked, "How is your friend Audrey doing?"
She replied, "Audrey is barely getting by. All she takes are easy
classes, she never studies, and she barely has a 2.0 GPA. She is so
popular on campus, college for her is a blast. She's always invited to
all the parties, and lots of times she doesn't even show up for classes
because she's too hung over."

Her wise father asked his daughter, "Why don't you go to the Dean's
office and ask him to deduct a 1.0 off your GPA and give it to your
friend who only has a 2.0. That way you will both have a 3.0 GPA and
certainly that would be a fair and equal distribution of GPA."

The daughter, visibly shocked by her father's suggestion, angrily fired
back, "That wouldn't be fair! I have worked really hard for my grades!
I've invested a lot of time, and a lot of hard work! Audrey has done next
to nothing toward her degree. She played while I worked my tail off!"

The father slowly smiled, winked and said gently, "Welcome to the
Republican Party.

[annabanana]

19. to which the response must be that there was info

missing from the story.. Daughter didn't HAVE to donate grade point to Audrey.. Audrey's daddy (alum) has his name on the gym... So Audrey glides through with "gentlemen's C".. gets cushy berth in multinational.. choosing drapes or something.

[peekaloo]

12. Raygun laid the foundation, Bu$hit built the McMansion.

[Just Me]

22. Reagan was an actor. He was an image utilized by fascist-minded asses.

I no longer place total responsibility on that dead man's grave. He was merely a "tool" and didn't even know it. I'll bet his rest is filled with regret.

Jr. is EXACTLY the same,...an image, a tool. He is NOTHING without the show. He holds no exceptional experience or education or wisdom, AT ALL. His greatest suffering has been about his own weaknesses from which he was "saved" by exceptionally fortunate circumstances. He hasn't a clue about real life. He is used by those (ELITISTS) who never EVER gave a damn about any of the ideals we profess and "project": those ideals that are all talk and, apparently, no walk,...since we have become a culture that ACCEPTS violations of our ideals and abuses of our own nation and people.

Maybe, we Americans have become so cynical that the majority have figured, "what's the use?" Maybe, we've just given up. :shrug: I dunno'. I'm trying to understand and just don't get how we've reached this moment of egregious violations of human rights, democracy, the Constitution, a democratic republic, decency, integrity, honor,....

Like my SO recently said, "Why turmoil over things you have no power to control? This administration is going to do whatever it pleases and you can't stop them. You have no control over their criminal activities. They have power over those who do have the authority to confront such criminalities. Don't drive yourself crazy over stuff you can't control."

I responded, "Apathy will allow it to get worse. I have the power to object. We all do."

"You can't change the world by yourself", he said.

"I know that. Change requires a collective will. It requires ALL of us."

I am so tired of the cynicism and resignation I hear from so many people, even my SO whom I love through and through.

[maxsolomon]

13. ummm.... 5 milllion years ago?

in case you hadn't noticed, humans are the meanest, greediest, most hateful & mindlessly destructive of all the great apes.

civilization is a thin veneer. lipstick on a pig.

[leftofthedial]

14. Reagan era

when we learned that might makes right, greed is good, and crime pays

[NewJeffCT]

36. I agree - Reagan started the "Greed is good" idea

and the demonization of "welfare queens driving Cadillacs" and the poor in general.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

16. "All politics is local." - Tip O'Neil

For the average citizen, politics is about how much they're paying in taxes, how their kids are doing in school, how much money they're making, how scared they are, and how cute the local politician is. Unless some policy hits them personally, or someone they know personally, politics is less interesing and important than the sale at the local Walmart.

Nothing new about it. The Romans kept the populace under control with "bread and circuses" and threw in fear and nationalism to get them to pay taxes and fill the army with future corpses.

[Oversea Visitor]

17. I disagree

with the classification of Americans being generally mean-ass, greedy hateful and mindless....

I believe the majority of humans are decent. We are never born evil.
The choice a who being a president might be A or B choice
I think it is personal here and each come to a concluession on what is best.
The most important issue is that has there been awakening to all the lies and coverup.
I do see positive light in that there are many post here of an awakening.
What it means is that people are realising that bush was a wrong choice
But to attack anyone who voted bush is like rubbing salt in wound.
Heal the wound.

This battle can never be won by mindless attack on bush voters.
It is counter productive.
This battle need to be won by the determination that truth and fact must prevail over misinformation,
There is no denying that a massive misinformation campaign is being wage
There is no denying that it will be a hard battle as the machinery of the campaign is well run and massively
THERE IS NO DENYING THAT THEY WILL FIGHT HARDER AS YOU GAIN GROUND
But you cannot really fight truth.
So ultimately truth will win.
Just be prepare for mega spin.
When finnaly the dust is settle the most brutal attacker of bush will be his so call supporter.
Evil will always eat itself.

The present course of this US administration is to toal disaster of the country.
That is a given.
Bush cannot handle this suituation.
He is totally inadequate in his ability
He will only make it worst.

His inability to accept his inadequatecy will ultimately be his downfall
Sadly US will pay a very painful price for this.
And I sincerely hopre that Americans will come together to heal the country
And I hope that most Americans will stop playing the blame game.

[Just Me]

24. Yes. That's why I qualified with "why do we accept".

I don't believe people are born either "good" or "evil". I believe we are ALL born with the capacity to choose.

Sadly, we ALL pay the price, all of us, for the decisions IMPOSED by this administration: guilty and innocent alike.

How did we get here? Why? Define the dangers so that we can be more mindful of the abusive and prevent their dominion over our lives.

Perhaps, the identification of human worth with the success of companies has something to do with it. Is human worth/success dependent upon money and/or possessions? :shrug: Maybe, we've lost our way, completely, to shit that has nothing to do with "freedom" or "liberty" or "life" or "love" or "compassion". What evidence proves our passion for human worth and life? :shrug:

[Oversea Visitor]

30. As in all politcal system

The choice of a president is never really the people call
In US it is A or B
After a process of another A or B
Sadly the most qualified cannot win in this process.

This danger exist in all political system and perpetual vigilance is required to prevent a madman to come to power.

Sadly the days of the CORPORATION are here.
It has been here a longtime.
The influence of the Multi National Companies are felt all over the world.
The governance of these companies will determine the future.
In their quest for better bottomline
Rules and Laws has been broken

The MNC of todays are the KINGMAKER.

[Cleita]

18. Maybe it started back when we colonized this country

and pushed the natives further and further west until they had to stop and fight us. Then we called them savages and put a bounty on them.

Or maybe it was when we dragged Africans from their homes and enslaved them to pick our cotton and tobacco. Now I know the ordinary person had nothing to do with this, other than look the other way when injustices were happening.

Or was it when we rationalized that what the others were doing, that made us uncomfortable, was necessary for the country.

[Cats Against Frist]

21. But mst of the adults you know embrace the golden arches

It is more our consumerism, than anything else, that props up these people. The majority of Democrats and Republicans that I know support it equally.

And I'd say that hate radio has much to do with it too. Divide and conquer. That's what the conquistadors always say...

[Sapphire Blue]

26. I wish I could get more people to care about this...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x222207

[Trillo]

27. It is perhaps my overly simplistic belief that

schools have been punishing and rewarding the wrong people for some time.

I'd post more of why I believe this and how it works (simplistically), but, I haven't been able to post on this thread since it started, so I changed my Internet connection to post. Odd. Seems like an IP block, but only on posting.

[bpilgrim]

29. there is an argument to make that society has become MUCH MORE rational

(edit to add: rational i.e. foreign policy & especially war)

but our leaders have masted the arts of perception management (teeVee, mainly) and effectively HIDE their evil deeds. (on edit: torture, dead bodies, etc)

it is up to all of us to pass the word ;->

Thank GORE, he 'invented' the INTERNETs :bounce:

:hi: Just Me

peace

[Trillo]

32. "those who have risen" in various

hierarchies seems a problem. There seems to be an inverse relationship between honesty to hierarchical level achieved.

Just the other night, some episode of Law and Order was on, and a connection was made between murder and poverty & corruption. The huge problem seems to be with "wealth & corruption". But keep making poor folks feel bad about themselves....

[bpilgrim]

34. rise to the top

surface at the bottom



:hi: SimpleTrend

peace

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Just Me]

38. Blame Robertson for PUSHING intolerance by SHOVING his brand of,...

,...Christianity. Blame BushCO and the neocons for dehumanizing all those who aren't "fundies" or fascists.

They are the ones who are breeding intolerance.

Where I live, we are free to express "giving" and "thankfulness" to one another, as Christ taught us to do, in our individual ways, without worry about condemnation.

I am sorry you and your niece no longer have that freedom,...but, place the incitement of intolerance where it belongs and IT ISN'T UPON THOSE OF US WHO ADVOCATE A SOCIETY FREE OF ALL OPPRESSION.

No one has the patent, copyright or patent on the truth or the future. So, we should work together through this life. Together.

[Catherine Vincent]

33. These party goers fit that description. This was taken during Bush's

inauguration in 2001.

[Inland]

35. It was always there: now it's just considered okay if not a postive good.

The difference is between being normally human (not nice) and aspiring to something better and asserting that greed, conflict, hate and violence are positive aspects. What were once acknowledged as vices are now supposedly what makes our country great.

[The Whiskey Priest]

37. When We Found Jesus!

Hallelujah! Hallelujah!