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splat@14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:42 PM
Original message
Can Democrats blow it even now? Sure.
Edited on Wed Oct-04-06 08:46 PM by splat@14
This is something I've sweated about but never been able to put it into words like this. Do yourself a favor and see the rest at the link to Billmon
Splat

They don’t have the money and the machinery Republicans do.
More important, the Democrats’ message is murky. In the Senate, they decry the Mexican fence, then more than half of them vote for it. They label the Iraq war as a mistake, then vote $70 billion more for it. They object to Bush’s torture bill, yet flinch at a chance to block it in the Senate.

It was that kind of profound indecision on a moral issue (slavery) that led to the demise of the Whigs before the Civil War. The Foley Scandal means that Democrats might be able to succeed with a campaign slogan that says, simply, “Had Enough?” But if they take control of Congress, they’ll still have to do what the Whigs could not, which is explain what they are for, not just what we all are against.
http://billmon.org/archives/002772.html

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KittyWampus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:44 PM
Response to Original message
1. Democrats HAVE a coherent message & plans. Whoever wrote that crap
must not be paying attention.
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INdemo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:49 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. Republican propaganda has many avenues
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splat@14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
8. Disagree. I think they have continued to miss opportunities to sell
their view. Think as far back as the presidential debates. I don't know about you but I screamed words for Kerry to say and the same for Edwards. Those guys should have mopped the floor with the idiots they were up against. The same dilemma exist now. I know they have a platform, you know it too ...but we aren't the problem. Billmon is right on.
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Vexatious Ape Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 09:05 PM
Response to Reply #8
12. Yes
I was screaming at those hapless bastards too. I know it's not true but at times during the dreadful 04 campaign, I felt, like they were blowing it on purpose.
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SammyWinstonJack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 10:25 PM
Response to Reply #1
19. Thank you!
:applause:
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derby378 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:48 PM
Response to Original message
2. Our party COULD use more in the way of "values discipline"
Unfortunately, a lot of Democratic candidates seem to be saying "Screw George Lakoff and his little frames, I'm gonna do things my way" and are trailing their Repuke opponents in the polls.

On the other hand, the wheels are coming off the GOP wagon over Foleygate, and Dennis Hastert could be the next on the chopping block. They are especially vulnerable right now, and Democrats need to come together and move in for the kill like dolphins surrounding a shark.
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DianaForRussFeingold Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #2
7. Bill Moyers special on now, about Abramoff/Delay/corruption. PBS.
Edited on Wed Oct-04-06 08:55 PM by DianaForRussFeingold
If only this was on ABC Commercial free http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2315302 Please! K&R This To The Front Page!
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bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:49 PM
Response to Original message
4. bullshit
Edited on Wed Oct-04-06 08:52 PM by bigbrother05
intended for the OP
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splat@14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 10:51 PM
Response to Reply #4
22. Is there a position behind that? Don't doubt you friend, just curious.
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babylonsister Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:51 PM
Response to Original message
5. I think the only way the repugs could win at this point is
via Diebold. Even prior to this, dimson's #'s were tanking, no one likes the war. This scandal is the cherry on top.
And that's leaving out the terra vote and Woodward's book.
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Gman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
6. Horse Shit!!
Pure horse shit.

Why are you posting this?
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splat@14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:57 PM
Response to Reply #6
10. See my reply to message #2.
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Mabus Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 08:56 PM
Response to Original message
9. That's not what Mehlman and DuHaime (RNC Political Director) said
about the GOP money and machinery. A friend of mine signed up as a Republican Team Leader a couple of years ago. Here is the text of a couple of e-mails she has received recently:


From: Ken Mehlman, RNC Chairman
Sent: Friday, September 15, 2006 6:35 AM
To: XXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: Everything Is On the Line

Dear XXXXXX,

Everything is on the line.

It's more than just the House, the Senate, and 36 governorships. It's whether the President's efforts to keep Americans safe will grind to a halt with Democrats in control of funding every aspect of the War on Terror... whether Democrats will be allowed to carry out their threat to raise your taxes by $2.4 trillion... whether Democrats will get their wish of investigating - and maybe even impeaching - our President.

With so much at stake, the Republican National Committee will hold nothing back in this fight. This week, I made the decision that the RNC will spend whatever it takes - $60 million or more, the RNC's entire budget - to maintain our majorities. We are within sight of meeting this ambitious financial goal - but we aren't there yet.

Will you put us in position to win by donating $250, $100, $50, or even $25 to the RNC's Emergency Fund?

http://www.GOP.com/EmergencyFund06/

XXXXXX, we are facing the brutal reality that we will be outspent in this tough fight. The Democrats, their special interest union allies, and angry left-wing groups like MoveOn.org plan to spend more than $120 million in their desperate bid to make Nancy Pelosi the next Speaker of the House. With the clock ticking to Election Day, we still need your support to stop that from happening.

http://www.GOP.com/EmergencyFund06/

A commitment like this is unprecedented in politics. The Hill newspaper calls it "a record for a national party committee in a midterm election."

http://www.GOP.com/EmergencyFund06/

Why are we staking everything on this extraordinary effort? Because we know that the plan works. Recently, National Journal's Hotline wrote that the RNC's get-out-the-vote program works to "expand the universe" of Republican voters, and "surpassed expectations."

http://www.GOP.com/EmergencyFund06/

We also know that when Americans hear our message, they rally to our cause. We saw it in 2002, we saw it in 2004, and we're seeing it again in 2006. An ABC News poll out this week shows that voters trust Republicans more on the issues, and a flurry of recent polls shows Republicans moving up in the battle for control of Congress, confirming that this will be another tough, close election.

This forward momentum can only continue with your help.

http://www.GOP.com/EmergencyFund06/

With a fight this tough and angry Democrats so emboldened to take power, your Party won't leave anything on the field. We are committing everything to this fight. Will you join in this unprecedented effort?


Sincerely,
Ken Mehlman
Chairman, Republican National Committee


From: "Michael DuHaime, RNC Political Director" <ecampaign@gop.com>
To: XXXXXX XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Subject: RE: Everything Is On The Line
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2006 21:08:11 -0400 (EDT)

Dear XXXXXX,

In case you missed it, Chairman Ken Mehlman recently sent you the important message below about the RNC's unprecedented commitment to securing our Republican majorities.

Our plan is already working. According to a Gallup Poll released last week, the race for Congress is tied and Republicans are coming on strong. But we will only cross the finish line victorious with your support.

http://www.GOP.com/EmergencyFund06/

XXXXXX, as the person responsible for overseeing this grassroots effort, I can tell you that we don't yet have all the financial resources to put get-out-the-vote volunteers in the field... or make all the get-out-the-vote phone calls that we need to make... or send all the absentee ballot mailings that we need to send. Please read Chairman Mehlman's message below about the RNC's unprecedented commitment to victory, and act now before our crucial September 30 fundraising reporting deadline.

http://www.GOP.com/EmergencyFund06/

Sincerely,

Michael DuHaime
RNC Political Director
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 09:02 PM
Response to Original message
11. Why You Think This Garbage Talk Helps Our Community Or Cause Is Beyond Me.
How bout some positive messages of hope or go forward strategy instead of this "Dems still suck" crap that I'd expect to see posted on FR? Just what did you expect to accomplish from this? What kind of discussion were you desiring to have? What kind of message are you trying to send? What kind of benefit were you actually expecting the DU community to take away from this? How is this supposed to bolster our efforts heading into November? Of all the things you could've possibly shared with this community, why were you motivated to choose this topic?

Feel free to answer any of those that you'd like.

Thanks. :hi:
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theanarch Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 09:50 PM
Response to Reply #11
14. reading your post...
...one is reminded of French tactical doctrine at the start of WWI--modernizing weapons was expensive; revamping command and control was complicated and contentious; retraining troops to deal with changes to military technology was time-consuming...so instead of doing all those things (despite the lessons of two Balkan wars only 1-3 years previously), millions of French soldiers were marched--with "elan" or fighting/patriotic spirit, but no steel helmets--into massed artillery barrages and concentrated heavy machine-gun fire, to die by the hundreds of thousands...before reality reared its ugly head, and the necessary upgrades and changes were belatedly made.

The reasons we discuss these matters is because they are outstanding issues of major contention that have yet to be resolved from previous elections, and leave Dem's vulnerable, divided, off-message and disorganized in the current election. The problem with the Dem's campaign(s) this year is that they have competing agendas: the DLC-approved "Bush Lite" agenda of Clinton, the Nelson's, Menendez, Cantwell, Lincoln, etc; and the somewhat more (if vaguely) "liberal" agenda of the usual C-Span suspects.

With the accumulation of scandels surrounding the GOPs, the original campaign strategy of lying low and letting public disgust with the GOP elect Dem's just may work (although barely, if it does), but does not do anything to rally the base, much less send a message to independents and so-called Reagan (rank and file) democrats. Indeed, recent votes on such litmus-test issues as the 'torture' bill only outrage and alienate not only left-liberal Democrats (as do such candidacies as Bob Casey's), but give non-Democratic civil libertarians a clear disincentive to vote Democratic.

One other point: the "lassaize faire" campaign strategy of the Dem's means they have no way to effectively respond to any October Surprise--for instance: say the Foley imbroglio isn't the Rovan mechanation some here poist, but a full-blown crisis for the GOP that only gets worse as election day approaches...if so, the pressure on the WH to engineer a surprise of such proportions as to turn the tide would, of course, be military action against Iran--say, a few days of intense air operations the weekend before the election, all to protect U.S. from an "intolerable", if non-existant, Iranian threat (nukes, WMD's, whatever)...close enough to the election to manipulate it; but before the utterly predictable (and already predicted) reactions and consequences--what would Democratic candidates do? I can guarantee you that almost all of them will (once again) rally 'round the president "in time of war", and spout all the neo-con propaganda about "security" that Rove et al could ever wish to hear. If the DP had adopted a genuine anti-occupation, anti-WOT policy from the start of this campaign, they could they would be entitled to respond to this scenario (which really isn't THAT far-fetched) with all the bombastic self-righteousness they deserve. Instead, by being WOT enablers--extraordinary DoD appropriations for Iraq/Afghanistan in the upper 11-figures; the torture bill--Dem's can only bleat their timid, "me-too-only-moreso" assent to their own defeat.

While i'm ranting: i totally reject the notion that to vote against the torture bill means one is labeled 'soft' on terrorism, and that axiomatically leads to electoral defeat. It is, at best, a very untested proposition (much like Dem's filibustering anything proposed by the WH or GOP--no one knows: it's never been tried). There are four plausible reasons for 12 D-Sen. and 34-D-House to vote with the neo-con's: 1) they are elitists who don't believe we are entitled to the 1st, 4th, 5th, 6th, 9th and 10th Amendments (or Sec. 1 of the 14th)--civil liberties just get in the way of riding herd on the masses. 2) They are ignorant, or just plain too stupid, to understand the seminal importance of the issue. 3) They are cynically indifferent enough to our rights that they can be sacrificed on the alter of their political ambitions. 4) They really do believe in civil liberties, but are simply cowards. Whichever excuse tickles your fancy, none of them relflect well on either candidate or the Party. Who's to say that standing up for the Bill of Rights is a losing proposition, especially when it's the perfect wedge issue to use against the GOP with their more redneck constituancy (hey, guys, your guns are NEXT). Besides, i've long regarded the Bill of Rights as THE litmus-test issue for any candidate--if standing up for civil liberties and human rights (and against fascism) ISN'T a litmus-test issue, then what in heaven's name is? Why are we so afraid to take THAT to the people?
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OPERATIONMINDCRIME Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. I'm Sorry, Did You Say Something?
I had my 'I hate the Democrats' protectors on my ears.
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theanarch Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 10:24 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I'm not the first, or only, person...
...here to note that the DP has many structural faults and deficiencies that become evident and contentious during elections, and are papered over and ignored between elections, and hence, unresolved. My broader point was that what this country needs is a good, ten-cent opposition party that takes clear, unambiguous stands not only AGAINST the neo-con hijacked GOP, but FOR a wide range of pro-people policies and programs (socialized medicine, free education, housing, public transit, etc.). And i'm not the first or only person here to point out that the DP has pretty much failed every major test of being that opposition party (rather like all those star-wars/SDI tests, only far less expensively--or humorously). Should Dem's win, it will be an anti-republican mandate, not a pro-democratic mandate--which i guess is just as well, as the Dem's aren't offering one, outside of supporting most of Bush's policies (the WOT/occupation, primarily), and applications for a few, micro-targeted tax credits for middle class families (at least the GOP promises ready cash for everyone--even if it's chump change for 90% of US).

If you wish to interpret a severe, if constructive, criticism as a knee-jerk insult, that is your perogative; if you want to understand why this conversation is occuring, a bit more dispassionate objectivity is in order...your choice.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 01:39 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. Sorry, you are wasting your time.
Wait until after January when things go as we know they will, then we can hear the cries and whines about the traitors in/of the (pick your group here, Greens are always a good choice) and how if only they would have cooperated the DLC and "centrists" could really shake things up and make the changes we need.

"There are none so blind as those that will not see". - Proverbs
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lapislzi Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-05-06 01:49 PM
Response to Reply #14
24. This deserves its own thread
Your analysis is extremely cogent, and I think we would do well to listen. To grow stronger (or to survive) as a party, we need to face those hard truths. The ideological schism has been apparent for years (What's the Matter With Kansas?), but I don't believe it's unbreachable.

Thanks for this.
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theanarch Donating Member (523 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-06-06 07:48 PM
Response to Reply #24
25. thank you...
...it is so refreshing--and rare--of find someone here who isn't offended or insulted by constructive criticism. Given the many faults, failures and crimes of Junior's junta, it is actually quite pathetic that Dem's are reduced to pinning their hopes for taking back one or both houses of Congress on the (alleged) pedophilia of a single, back-bench GOP rep. But then, given the Dem's refusal to act like (much less be) an opposition Party, they really don't have much else to campaign on. I agree this question deserves its own thread, but the chances of having an intelligent, and intellectually honest, discussion of the issue on its merits seems remote, if not naive. Which is why (in addition to knee-jerk Green-bashing and gratuitious Nader-hating) i happen to believe the schism IS unbreachable...rank and file Dem's simply don't wish to be confronted with the structural problems endemic to their Party, and prefer to blame others for their woes.
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splat@14 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 10:19 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. Nah, I don't think Dems suck but I also don't think this is garbage.
My (being liberal) point of view is always governed by caveats. Like "abortion is ok if...", or I agree with "the death penalty when...". The Right always has a clear message as it requires no thought, "no abortion" and "always the death penalty". They may feel the same that I do but they advertise it in definitive terms to get votes from those that don't ask. That's about as clear as I can say it.
Leftist have it tougher because we have to qualify it. Rights don't give a shit as long as they control everything tangible. The intangible we control, but it takes more effort to sell than Nascar does and more expertise to do it. If smart bastards like Kerry and Edwards couldn't sell their way past Bush & Cheney, I don't know, I just don't know.
We can't count on Right wing fuck-ups to make our points. We can lose by not making our own.

Thanks friend!
Cheers,
Splat
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Tarheel_Dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 09:09 PM
Response to Original message
13. whatever....
:eyes:
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 09:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. only election fraud will prevent the Dems
from taking over Congress. Dare we hope?
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Sensitivity Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 10:27 PM
Response to Original message
20. MONEY TALKS -- Hopes Dems can raise more money for ADS
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Mr_Spock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-04-06 10:28 PM
Response to Original message
21. That sounds exaclty like Faux "news" spin
Good job!

We need more negativity to drag us down before our heads get too big.
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A-Schwarzenegger Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-06-06 07:50 PM
Response to Original message
26. Splat is concerned.
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