Did anyone watch Battlestar Galactica? OMG! It's a metaphor

[Cleita]

for Iraq.

[Geoff R. Casavant]

1. Please say you're watching Part II.

It's a two-part premiere.

[Cleita]

3. I am watching part II right now.

[mojowork_n]

6. No, I missed it, but I just saw a diary on it 23 seconds ago,

here:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/10/6/213627/500

With, at the moment, 26 comments, and sure to be growing by the time you see this.

I hadn't actually been following the show at all, but based on what I just read in the Kos diary, I think I'll tune in for something besides that wickedly lovely now-he-sees-her/now-he-doesn't Cylon Babe.

[conscious evolution]

31. You really should start watching.

It is probably one of the best shows on television right now.

[AIJ Alom]

2. Of course it is. I've been watching the teasers on sci-fi and now I will

ignore your posts just in case you post any spoilers. Occuppied New Caprica like occuppied Iraq.

[Cleita]

4. No spoilers, just the jist of the story. n/t

[AIJ Alom]

7. ok, time for me to catch up on the second half of season 2 on dvd.

[NMDemDist2]

5. we were just saying the same thing. "the insurgency"

the middle eastern influenced music in the background

[IChing]

8. Why ,against a powerfull overlord like the Cylons (wink)

they do Suicide Bombing

[mojowork_n]

13. Did I say one diary on Kos? Here's an even longer one:

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/6/21117/0851

I have to confess, I used to make sure I was alone when watching, "Babylon 5". But when they did a before and after satiric sort of sequence, featuring a parody of a 24 hour-newschannel-type network interviewer, it brought a dewey glimmer to my eye. The people playing the newschannel shills couldn't have been less objective, or more 'bought-and-paid-for'. They did a great job contrasting the video footage of questions being asked, in earnest, with solemn faux-sincerity, then switched to the boffo, very bogus and heavily edited version of the interview, actually going on the air.

[Suich]

27. It's at AMERICAblog, too!

http://americablog.blogspot.com/

:hi:

[Ian David]

43. Did you know Jerry Doyle became a right-wing radio host? n/t

[cascadiance]

72. Doyle must be the character Bush and Rove love on this show...

I often wonder how J. Michael Straczynski got along with Jerry Doyle. It's weird that though one might interpret Babylon 5, complete with Homeland Security analogy Operation Nightwatch, and President Clarke like George Bush in a move to fascism, that it was cited as "Bush's and Karl Rove's favorite television shows"

Read this post by J. Michael Straczynski on usenet a while back...

http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf.tv.babylon5.moderated/browse_frm/thread/887aaec99134ade1/dcc01ac4530c78f6?lnk=st&q=&rnum=1#dcc01ac4530c78f6

So I was talking to Doug Netter this afternoon, who had in turn spoken with
Bruce Boxleitner earlier in the day about the year 2 DVD. In the course of
that conversation, Bruce mentioned something that Doug in turn mentioned to me.

To wit:

Bruce had been at the White House about a month ago, in the company of wife
Melissa Gilbert, president of the Screen Actors Guild, for a discussion with
some of the functionaries there concerning acting roles moving north of the
Canadian border.

As they're talking, in a long conference room, in the middle of the meeting the
door oens and Karl Rove -- main strategist for the Republican Party and power
behind the White House throne -- comes in. He says (paraphrased from memory)
to Melissa, "I hope you'll forgive me, but I actually here to see Bruce."

He then tells Bruce, "I just wanted to tell you that I'm a big science fiction
fan, and that Babylon 5 is the best science fiction television series *ever*."

Then there's a pause, and he adds....

"And the President thinks so too."

Upon hearing this, I went to lie down for a spell, but I fully expect to be
back on my feet by Spring, latest.

jms

[Ian David]

73. Normal people see a warning. Bush and Rove see a blueprint.

I wonder if Bush likes the movie "Soylent Green?"

[Ian David]

9. I was thinking the same thing. Impeach George W. Baltar! n/t

[NMDemDist2]

10. ROFL!!!! right ON! n/t

[Ian David]

11. The original Battlestar Galactica was about Zionism.

In the original series, the Colonists were stand-ins for the Jews toward the end of The Holocaust, returning to Israel.

Now, The Cylons are Bush and The Republicans.

[IChing]

12. I agree

And the last scene, "i agree"

[IChing]

14. "we will find another president"

and put a gun to his head, as the robots threatened the president to work with the cylons

[Ian David]

42. A real Republican wouldn't have resisted even as much as Baltar has

Republicans: "Do what you want to the children, just leave Speaker Hastert alone!"

[mojowork_n]

15. Zionism?

And here I thought it was about the fall of Constantinople, or Rome, or Machu Pichu, or Atlantis, or any other sacred and fabulous empire, falling victim to cold, marauding barbarian hordes.

[htuttle]

16. No, the original series was about Mormons

Seriously.

[Ilsa]

24. Huh? I never heard that. Although I did hear there was a pretty

strict Mormon that played Starbuck, which is why it is so much fun that Starbuck is now a woman.

[htuttle]

30. So was Glen Larson, producer and creator of the first series

Here's one reference:
http://www.kobol.com/archives/BG-FAQ.html#E21

Google will reveal many more.

[Ian David]

44. If this is true, then... Boxy is... Mitt Romney??? The whole series...

... was really just Davey and Goliath in Space?


<snip>

1. In Battlestar Galactica, twelve tribes of man founded the Twelve Colonies after departing from Kobol. A lost thirteenth colony colonized Earth. In The Book of Mormon, around 600 BC, the prophet Lehi took a remnant of the tribe of Joseph from Jerusalem to ancient America, during the time of the Babylonian captivity and the scattering of the twelve tribes of Israel.

2. In "Lost Planet of the Gods", it is revealed that the mankind originated on Kobol, the mother world of all humans. Kobol is a rearranging of the word Kolob, which is the star "nearest unto the throne of God" (see The Book of Abraham, Ch. 3, found in The Pearl of Great Price.) The "Star Kobol" was also the ship on which armistice talks between the Colonials and the Cylons were held.

3. The episode "War of the Gods", with starred Count Iblis and the Ship of Lights, introduces viewers to various elements of LDS teachings. The universe is under the law of Free Agency: "We cannot interfere with freedom of choice. His, yours, anyone's." Even Count Iblis (Satan) is bound by these laws, for he has only control over those who had "freely given him dominion." Those who accepted Iblis' words were willing to follow him blindly provided he guaranteed their safety. According to the Mormon account of creation (The Book of Moses, Ch. 4, found in The Pearl Of Great Price), one of the reasons God cast Satan out of heaven was because he "sought to destroy the agency of man."

<snip>

More:
http://www.kobol.com/archives/BG-FAQ.html#E20

[chat_noir]

17. comments from you know where

To: KevinDavis
These are the first episodes I've seen since the original in the 70's. Very well done.

However, the theme definitely reminds one of the situation in Iraq, with the show supporting the equivalent of the Iraqi insurgents, complete with their strap-on bombs blowing up the local police academy.

I think Edward James Olmos is a great actor, but I also know he is quite the liberal. Unfortunately, I'm thinking this show is an apologist for underground Iraqi tactics versus the American troops.

That bothers me.

40 posted on 10/06/2006 7:07:26 PM PDT by ConservativeMind


To: ConservativeMind
It's being turned into an anti Iraq war, anti war on terror propaganda piece.

I'm disappointed.

42 posted on 10/06/2006 7:13:49 PM PDT by Armedanddangerous


To: unspun
As much as I like BSG, I've always had to ignore the anti-Christian comparisons to the Cylons. Now I've gotta ignore the Anti-American theme.

44 posted on 10/06/2006 7:17:20 PM PDT by neodad


To: KevinDavis
I am totally in favor of resistant interpretations and trying to read this thing backwards-- but we ought not kid our selves. The producers and writers of this show despise Bush, Christianity, the war in Iraq.

I hope we can poach bogus interpretations to usurp their interpretations.

58 posted on 10/06/2006 7:35:21 PM PDT by lonestar67

[Cleita]

18. It kind of goes all over the place. If you haven't watched it

in the past then you missed the torture part, soon after Abu Ghraib, when Starbuck tortures a Cylon to get information from him that he doesn't have. After she decides he's innocent, the President played by McDonnell sends him out a chute into space anyway because he's no longer useful.

They are trying to be topical and because it's Sci-Fi and humans against machines, there is a story that can be told that probably can't be told if it were closer to reality.

[berni_mccoy]

20. Those idiots need to wake the fuck up to the reality of war

Plain and simple. They are trying to spin the reality of war. They have nothing left to turn to on their political party, so they try to delude themselves that the reality of war is liberal propaganda.

[demwing]

21. [W]riters of this show despise Bush, Christianity, the war in Iraq.

Bush, Christianity, the war in Iraq.

**It's a mantra. Repeat it slowly, letting the words roll across your mind.

Bush, Christianity, the war in Iraq.
Bush, Christianity, the war in Iraq.
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Om, Tat, Sat.
All that is.

[Ian David]

46. They're showing us the reality of our actions

1- Deperate people resort to desperate measures.
2- Being tortured radicalizes people

And there is so much more.

[AnnieBW]

22. Perceptive Of Them

Yep, the "good guys" are polytheists, and the genocide-committing Cylons are religious fanatics. Although, I'm surprised that any of the Freepers watch BSG. It's too many shades of gray for their puny little brains to deal with.

[Ian David]

45. Even the Cylons have a "peace movement" in their ranks

Yet, they continue the occupation to bring the word of their god to the humans.

As always, it's the evangelicals making the rest of us miserable.

[conscious evolution]

63. greek mythology in BSG

I think that the use of Greek mythology inBSG is not to portray humans as polytheistic.It is used as a metaphor for western civilization.
After all,the Greeks are often portrayed as the civilization who gave rise to western thought and civilization.

[ComerPerro]

28. I don't know why Freeptarts like sci fi.

Sci Fi tends to hate fascist governments.

Of course, they usually just pretend the evil fascist governments are liberal.


But if you imagine a show like Star Trek, for example.

Why do freepers love that show?


The Federation stands for everything they hate

[Ian David]

47. Freepers love anything that has people in uniform following orders.

If Bob Crane hadn't died, the freepers would be making Hogan's Heroes the number-one sitcom to this very day.

[ComerPerro]

61. great line

[Marr]

41. They don't understand why the humans aren't throwing candy and flowers at

the cylons.

[MorningGlow]

68. Great line from the show

Something like "...And then they'll greet us with...never mind."

:rofl:

[Vidar]

19. Absolutely right. Complete with "human insugents".

[Ilsa]

23. Another fan here! Wow, powerful show tonight. I was tinking the same

thing. And the cylons were saying their purpose in coming to New Caprica was to make a happy existence there with the humans, while the humans were doing okay without them. Hmmmm.

[Cleita]

32. I got the impression that the Cylons were bringing "democracy"

to the humans on New Caprica like we are supposed to be bringing it to Iraq. ??????

[htuttle]

33. Actually, the Ceylons seem to be confused as to their purpose there

...which a great aspect of it.

[Cleita]

34. Yes, some of them sincerely believed that the reason they were

there was the right reason.

[Swamp Rat]

25. EXCELLENT!

My favorite TV series! :bounce: It's like going to the movies, but better!

[katamaran]

26. I liked the line from Cavill on Colonial One...

I liked the line from Cavill on Colonial One..."They'll welcome us with...well, you know." All I could think is flowers, candy and open arms, a la Iraq.

[conscious evolution]

29. I caught that too.

Another thing I wondered about.When Rosylin was writing her 'blog' I got the feeling that part of what she was writing came from somebody in Iraqs blogging.

[Rex]

35. Best show on TV IMO.

It is an edge of your seat kinda show. I love it.

[TheWraith]

36. A superb opening double episode. (Some spoilers inside)

Dean Stockwell's Brother Cavil is, I think, the most interesting Cylon by far. In last year's two-part season finale, he came across as funny, cynical, abrasive, but even a bit likable. He's still got that same humor and abrasive quality, but now it's taken a dark, malevolent tone, though not without moments of lighter fare. His "It's not like they greeted us with--ah, nevermind..." line was gold.

The exploration of suicide bombing, and how easily hatred can lead to a horribly dark place that no one should ever go, the way it has for Colonel Tigh. Even Tyrol and Anders--warriors by neccessity, who agreed to the original plan for the ceremony--were shocked by his intent to bomb the marketplace.

Starbuck is in a really twisted mental place too. Trapped in that mockery of a house for four months with Leoben, whose specialty lies in messing with people's minds--and oh yeah, he can't die. It's like something out of horror.

Too many threads to mention, too many things happening... one of the big qualities about Galactica is that it doesn't have any filler. While another show might waste five minutes showing things which really didn't matter in the larger context, every minute of Galactica is relevant.

[Ian David]

48. Dean Stockewell was blacklisted during the McCarthy era

I assume he was eager to take these great shots at our new Fascist regime.

[yurbud]

57. his character came up earlier--he was a cleric and unknown to anyone

else, a closet cylon.

[yurbud]

58. "this is the fifth time you've killed me..."

[walldude]

37. It's not just BG either, The new Star Wars book series,

Legacy of the Force is dealing with the war on terror. Looks like Sci-Fi is taking on the big guys.

[0rganism]

38. more incomplete simile than metaphor, IMHO

For instance, there's no analogue for the colonial fleet in the Iraq situation. The writers keep the show topical without forcing their plot into any direct parallels, which I think is a Good Thing.

Very high-quality show tonight, in any case.

[Occulus]

39. Not only Iraq...

Many, manymanyMANY issues facing our nation right now were represented by a metaphor of some sort in this episode.

Wow. My jaw repeatedly dropped.

[Ian David]

49. Two metalic cylons were hold hands when they thought nobody was looking

Ahh... nothing like Gay Cylons in love!


"Call me in the morning"
"By your command."

[yurbud]

53. "Let me caress your shiny dome." Oh wait, that's Bush.

[Occulus]

74. LOL

Was Starbuck only playing along at the end, when she put her hand in the Cylon's?

[Marr]

40. It's an excellent example of the best kind of science fiction.

Relevant, smart... something that makes you think, and maybe even question some of your own assumptions.

[yurbud]

50. it puts characters we like and care about in position of insurgents

and Cylons even say they are trying to do something good--so long as they are the ones in charge.

[Ian David]

55. I bet the Cylons aren't feeding their troops water contaminated with feces

[yurbud]

56. nope--they're trying to breed with them--following Spanish

colonial model a bit more than ours, including the religious part.

[yurbud]

51. especially chilling was the one guy who volunteered

nobody had to brainwash him.

And it made sense in the face of an enemy with a technological edge.

[CorpGovActivist]

52. Battlestar One of the Top Programs for Iraq Troops

The producers aimed that straight at the conscience-stricken soldiers in Iraq.

I did not understand the sudden switchup in the storyline at the end of the last season, but I have to hand it to the BG producers: there was a "method to their madness," and it gave me goosebumps to know that our troops in Iraq will have access to the episodes and webisodes.

- Dave

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

54. Holy Shiite!~ It keeps getting better and better.

The metaphor was as thick as cold syrup.

[skids]

64. So thick they joked about laying it on too thick...

"It's not like they welcomed us with... ah nevermind." :rofl:

[yurbud]

59. I didn't like the guy they picked to play Tigh until this episode

he seemed like the stereotypical shaky alcoholic that all the hollywood writers in AA fall back on.

His character seems both darker, deeper, and more likable as the one-eyed sheik.

[Tom Yossarian Joad]

65. "It looked like a boiled egg..." Now, THAT'S tough.

Shrug it off, mister. It's only a missing eye.

[yurbud]

69. yeah, that's brutal. And his wife fucking Dean Stockwell to get

him out is straight out of the Holocaust miniseries.

[Occulus]

75. His alcoholism plays into this current situation a bit

I had an uncle like him. He needed something to prove. Notice he doesn't shy away from the harsh moonshine he drinks with the other couple insurgents, the scene where he makes the hard boiled egg comment...

as to that....

ACK!!! :scared:

[Haole Girl]

60. I liked the way they juxtaposed ancient religions...

...using candles, beads, statues, etc. and modern fanaticism. There were almost direct references to "Born Agains." It was very well done.

[bikebloke]

62. Found while surfing

I've just started Season 2 on DVD. But yesterday was dreadfully slow at work. Surfing around, I came across a Battlestar Galactica discussion board. Some geek (it was easy to visualize some adult kid living in his mom's basement) was moaning and groaning about the librul tact. Luckily, others shot him down.

[BamaGirl]

66. I really love this show

And while I certainly see the parellels everyone has mentioned, the impression I turned the tv off with was more along the lines of, the colonists are us. This is what happens when the creature you have created (cylons or the US gov) turns on its own (colonists or the us citizenry). This is thing we rail about here on DU all the time. As much as it seemed to be about Iraq, I thought it was also a very clear warning to America. Along the lines of, hey bubba you're next! Too bad all the liberal haters out there are going to miss that.

[Strelnikov_]

67. Don't Think BG Will Allowed To Show At Military Bases Anymore

Powerful episode.

[BlueStorm]

70. Too bad I don't have the Sci-fi Channel

Sounds like this was a kick ass show. I did go to imdb.com and read some of the comments on there and they were interesting.

Blue

[AwakeAtLast]

71. My Iraq Vet husband said the same thing. n/t