Would you ever seriously consider leaving the US?

[cynatnite]

After watching the stripping away of our constitutional rights, legalizing torture and giving bush a 'get out of jail' card for past offenses left me wondering.

Proof exists the republicans aren't above cheating in an election. The republicans are fighting for their political lives with no regard for truth or anyone else. It makes me wonder if it can get worse.

Republicans are pointing out all that is wrong with America by pointing to immigrants, Middle Easterners, gays and liberals. Since bush has been in office he and his cabal have chosen judges who fit their ideology including SCOTUS which could do more in tipping the balance of power toward the executive branch.

Gonzales has expressed the possible need to outright ignore SCOTUS rulings just in case they don't pass this unconstitutional bill that bush will soon sign into law.

On top of it all, bush has bypassed and ignored not only the rule of law in this country, but also international law. His willingness to treat the legislative branch as wonderful when they agree with him and with disdain when they don't proves he has no regard or value for the foundation the fathers of the US built.

I'm halfway through 'Conservatives without Conscience' and needless to say it's a sobering book that can't be ignored. As I read, the question keeps coming back over and over. There is no way anyone can ignore the implications of what has happened to our government and country. Avoiding the comparisons to 1933 Germany is next to impossible.

The story about the unknowing frog who dies before it realizes the water is boiling is an apt scenario. The question I may soon have to ask myself will that be me or will I jump out of the pot before it's too late?

What would you do?

[wakeme2008]

1. If it wasn't for the need to learn Spanish I would have moved to

central Costa Rica. Good weather, cheap to live IF you do not want to live in an US compound. And Great Medical.

But IF I won the Lotto, I would move to New Zealand... :)

[TomInTib]

5. Hah! See my reply below.

But I will be on the coast in Dominical.

Come on down. We will drink beer and go fishing.

[wakeme2008]

14. LOL too hot I have lived in Florida more or less for 35 years

the central valley is cool enough for me and I could drive to the beach if needed. :)

[Gato Moteado]

15. why are you against learning spanish?

learning new languages is a good thing, not a bad thing.

[wakeme2008]

20. Too old,, I am 57 and do not want to have to learn a new language

:shrug:

The compounds are very expensive but living on the economy is not, but to get by day by day you have to know Spanish.

[Gato Moteado]

28. too old? you're never too old to learn new stuff

what do you mean by the compounds being very expensive?

[TomInTib]

2. 'Consider' leaving? Hell, I am planning on it.

See you in Dominical.

[Gato Moteado]

16. i can't remember if you told me you already had land down here....

...if not, i wouldn't wait much longer. the property values rise by the day.

[kenny blankenship]

3. I try to limit myself to only once a day

[seabeyond]

4. only right before the doors are shut and locked. we are a long way

from that happening. otherwise the fight is here

[Straight Shooter]

6. Sure I would. It's a big world.

I don't think I would leave because the government is out of control, but more out of a desire to live in another culture, experience another country, learn another language, that sort of thing.

It's more of a desire to be somewhere else than simply to get away from here. The advantage I have is that I do not have close family ties. I think that's the hardest thing for most people when they consider leaving the U.S. Finances are a problem, too, for a lot of people.

I should mention I'm an Army brat, born overseas, didn't come to the U.S. until I was 5, and have moved many, many times in my life. So it's a natural feeling for me to want to roam around the world.

[Greyhound]

7. Every single day now. I've been considering it, though not too seriously,.

since all this crap started in 1981. I just don't believe, give the numerous opportunities to correct course we have let pass or even fought against, that enough Democrats are really interested in fixing it.

I hope I'm wrong and maybe they will prove it when we take the legislature back, I'm just not holding my breath.

[earth mom]

8. I would if I could.

But for financial and job reasons my family and I just can't leave right now. Maybe in a year and a half, we may be able to. Meanwhile...fingers crossed that this country doesn't self destruct before that! :scared:

I encourage all who can leave to do so NOW.

[springhill]

9. yes.........

if the military instituted the draft and my son was in danger of being drafted for these illegal wars, we would be gone.

[bryant69]

10. Not for these reasons

I'd leave because I felt I wanted to spend some time in another country or I had professional opportunities - somethilng like that.

But I'd rather boil with my countrymen, if that is the choice. I will note that I don't have any family, so feel a bit freer. I also don't believe that things are quite as bad as some people think they are (not to say they aren't bad, cause they are).

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[elocs]

11. If I won the lottery, I'd be gone.

Just think of the millions of Jews in Europe before WWII who waited too long, particularly in Germany. They could not conceive of such terrible things happening in their country. The difference is that many of us can conceive of such things happening in our country, but most us probably will not leave or be unable to leave.

[MadHound]

12. No! There is no way in hell

That I'm going to allow the bastards drive me out of my home and country. There is also no way in hell that I will allow them to make this country into a fascist state without a fight. I am a stubborn son of a bitch, with a huuuge streak of "I'm pissed and I don't give a damn anymore", and will stay and do my best to defend this country from the fascists, by any means neccessary.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

13. Alas, we are too old and not rich enough to leave.

We explored the possibilities before we retired and discovered that Europe is more expensive than 'Murka.

[Gato Moteado]

17. though the fake elections sped up the process.....

...i had been planning to move down here to costa rica for 15 years.

no freepers allowed here. we feed those white trash bootlickers to the crocs down here.

and if rush limbaugh ever sets foot here thinking he can molest some minors like he does in the dominican republic, we will string that fat fascist mouthpiece up to a tall tree and show him what the world really thinks of him. bank on it.

[bigbrother05]

18. I did, but came back to soon

went to Germany for 5 years, loved it, but was too cold. thought this bastard had done just about everything possible, boy was i wrong, just don't know what tomorrow will bring.

[blues90]

19. I've considered it

I would not know where to go , many places are not much better these days . All are in the threat of the BCF . Beside I have no money and most countries require you to be able to maintain . I don;t know life other than the US .

I also don't feel we really have alot of time , things have changed so much in just 6 years , it does'nt show if you look around but you can certainly feel a rummble coming and it feels like it's soon to come .

The scary part is there are the elections coming REAL soon , the world can't wait rallies were not covered and seem to have no effect at least that you can see . Then there is the possible attack on Iran , an issue that is talked about but it seems to truly exist and we don't have real info on this issue that we can put enough together to form even a best guess . Then there is the Foley sex scandle . If you mix this all together you end up lost in space where anything can happen . I can't put anything past the BCF , GW and papy are busy launching a new sub in papy's name today so they are seemingly into the war machine . And the new torture bill with the bush signing statement .

[abluelady]

21. Yes, But Not Just for the Reasons You Expressed

Being in the middle class is truly being squeezed right now. I don't know how we will afford to retire even if we work as long as we're able. We might have to go to a country where we can live on the dollars we will have.

[The Blue Flower]

22. NO

After all that my grandparents went through to get here, after making it possible for them to come here to flee the pogroms and Holocaust, no. This is our country, nobody takes it away from us. And what will be gained if we let them take over and then do the same to the rest of the world? Even now, you can be taken off any street on the planet, hidden, tortured, and killed. So where would you go to escape that? I'm staying, and I'm fighting them.

[true_notes]

23. Only during winter

and reside in the Philippines with my wife and realize just how good it is back here in the states.

Plus the weather would be good.

[SheilaT]

24. The only reason

we haven't left yet has been getting our two sons through school The oldest is mildly autistic (Asperger's Syndrome) and needs a lot of hands-on support. He's making his way, slowly, through mechanical engineering at Kansas State University, and we can't really do all the things he needs done for him (arranging for tutors and mentors, making a surprise visit when he stays out of touch for several weeks) from Canada or Costa Rica, two possibilities for us. And then there's the need to earn a living elsewhere, but that's probably surmountable. We both speak enough Spanish to get by and know it would improve dramatically if we were surrounded by it.

I've told my husband that if Democrats do not gain control of at least one house of Congress in the upcoming election, we must leave as soon as possible. Sons may have to change schools, but I fear we're teetering on the edge of the abyss, and that it's going to be a long way down.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

25. Yes, I've thought about it many times

If I didn't have an elderly mother and stepfather to help watch over, I'd be working fulltime on ways to leave, since my profession is completely portable and requires only a place with broadband Internet and banks that accept wire transfers from overseas.

I've been alienated from Middle American suburban dumb-and-proud-of-it culture all my life.

[catmandu57]

26. I've been wondering what the Scottish repatriation policy is

I'm only a generation removed from full blood, but, my pocket book, my wife, and my gimp say otherwise. So here i am and here i'll stay come hell or high water.

[WI_DEM]

27. No, I love my country and will fight for it against these forces

and besides that my family and friends are here. I also don't have the kind of money it would take to just up and leave and move to a foreign country and hope to find some kind of work and begin a new life.

[ThomWV]

29. This Comming Election Will Tell Us One Way Or The Other

If its stolen, or even a hint of stolen, we're out of here.

[CatholicEdHead]

30. Considered: yes, Seriously: no

Though going against the curve may be dangerous there will be a place for me here to do what I can do if the bottom falls out.

[deadparrot]

31. Absolutely.

I've always been far more enamored by Europe (in terms of history, culture, etc.) than America. I'm still in college, but I'm planning on getting an advanced degree in the hopes of getting out of this country.

[Initech]

32. I've seriously considered it, I just lack the funds to be able to do so.

[Dem2theMax]

33. * or no * , I've wanted to move to Italy for over 16 years.

Whether I will be able to work it out so I can do so is the problem. (Read $$$$$.)

* is just giving me more reasons to want to move there. As if I needed more.

Italy has millions of reasons for me, all by itself. :)

[demgurl]

34. Considered it and want to.

Hubby is very attached to staying here since that is where his family is. I want to go back to Canada where the remainder of my family is. I think if the elections do not swing our way he will finally be convinced the whole system is rigged.

Just in case, I am trying to prepare for a border being closed scenario. I think I could get kicked out on my own merits since I was sworn in as a Canadian citizen. If we can not get out legally, I have been dieting toward the end of sneaking across the border. My diet has helped me not only take off weight but build up stamina. I can now walk between 8-10 miles a day. Now that it is getting cooler I can get my kids out walking around the block to build up their stamina. We have camping equipment and I think we could successfully sneak across the border.

[SmokingJacket]

35. I would enjoy it anyway -- always wanted to live for a while elsewhere

I've spent a few months in Europe and found it fascinating -- also found out how much I like my own country. My sense of humor is American, my love of the landscape is American, etc., and my family's here.

I've never lived anywhere besides the US and Europe, though, and would like to do that someday -- you learn a lot more about a country if you live there.

But fleeing the US? Only in the most extreme circumstances -- draft, camps for gays, tanks in the street, etc. I hope I recognize it when it happens... maybe I won't though, and I'll end up going down with the ship. :shrug: