So Harry wants to be a tool in Blair's war

[bigtree]

that will be my first, and most disappointing, impression of this opportunistic young man.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060125/wl_nm/britain_royals_harry_dc_1


Prince Harry on a training exercise exercise at the elite Sandhurst academy. Clarence House said Harry has opted to join the 'Blues and Royals' regiment of the Household Cavalry, which could be deployed in Iraq.(AFP/Crown Copyright/File)
AFP/Crown Copyright/File - 40 minutes ago

[obreaslan]

1. Unfortunately, I doubt he will ever be sent to Iraq....

Looking at that picture, it reminds me how much fun it would be to see Jenna and Barbara enlisted in the armed forces. :D

[alcibiades_mystery]

2. I don't begrudge him this

The people of Britain are enduring the war with their own sons and daughters, and I think Harry is doing the rtight thing by arguing, implicitly, that this burden should be shared by all Britons. This doesn't make him a tool of Blair. Hell, people are yelling on this board every day for the Bush twins to sign up. To then turn around and point accusingly at Harry for doing just that is ridiculous, and not a little hypocritical.

He also is completing his time at Sandhurst. He is being trained by Her Majesty's government to serve as an officer, and officers see their duty - to their troops and their country - mainly in a combat zone.

I think your post is mean-spritied and small-minded, to say the least.

[bothwell]

3. Have to agree

If you go to Sandhurst then you sign up lock stock, if service is required then it's what you do, and it is somewhat more of a proper job than his bloody father has ever had apart from counting the money he gets from the Duchy of Lancaster etc, did you know he actually makes some money from a marina in cornwall because he owns the seabed!!!!!! OWNS THE SEABED!!! sorry got carried away

[bigtree]

7. got to wonder why there is so much stock put in military service.

there are many other ways that he could serve Britain than by signing on with a fighting force, especially now with the new blair militarism that has infected the service.

I have more respect for those who refuse to give their lives to these warmongers to use as a bludgeon against those 'lesser', defenseless countries that they choose to conquer.

[mrfrapp]

11. Charles

"If you go to Sandhurst then you sign up lock stock, if service is required then it's what you do, and it is somewhat more of a proper job than his bloody father has ever had"

Prince Charles was a serving officer in the Royal Navy.

(Disclaimer: I am not a monarchist.)

[bothwell]

13. Sorry

I meant ACTIVE service, mincing around the med in dress whites is all well and good, where Harry might end up (although as an heir I am sure he will be protected as much as possible) is a whole different scenario

[mrfrapp]

14. True

True, but I can't blame Charles for the fact that the UK was not at war at the time of his service.

"where Harry might end up (although as an heir I am sure he will be protected as much as possible) is a whole different scenario"

I'll eat this keyboard if Harry ends up anywhere near a battlezone.

[Solo_in_MD]

20. Prince Andrew flew choppers n the Falklands

which is dangerous enough in peacetime, let alone when someone shooting at you (note my fixed wing bias).

If he goes in theater, he is at risk and in the battlezone. If his unit deploys, enjoy your meal.

[mrfrapp]

21. Debatable

Flying helicopters is dangerous, I agree, but it's misleading to say Andrew flew helicopters in the Falklands. He may have flown helicopters while the Falklands War was taking place but he didn't actually take part in the war itself.

There's a reason why Falklands veterans refer to Andrew's ship, the HMS Invincible, as the HMS Invisible.

I'm not disparaging Harry's or Andrew's courage, I'm sure they believe that they're being treated just like anyone else, but there's no way that they would be deliberately put in danger by their commanding officers.

[bigtree]

4. whatever. I don't advocate anyone signing up to be a tool of either regime

that's what our soldiers are. Tools of a fascist regime.

I thought I was respectful to Harry and dismissive of the war and how the troops are misused for their imperialism. Go figure.

I'm fed up with the glorification of militarization. Harry's time would be better spent working to end his country's occupation of Iraq rather than seeking to lead some part of it.

[Yollam]

5. I agree - the so-called "royals" do have a tradition of service...

...including the "queen" herself back in WWII.


Now, the very notion that these people should be entitled to a station higher than anyone else's because of mere heredity, now that's some anachronistic bullshit for you. Harry's choices should have been enlisting in the infantry or flipping burgers at Mickey D's.

Elizabeth & company should all be busted down to living in a row house in a working-class neighborhood and taken off the public dole.

[FreedomAngel82]

15. Good for him if it's what he wants to do

At least he isn't like dear old AWOL and he's making something of himself. He's really matured lately and I'm proud to see that since I had high hopes for him. Dunno why but I just did. :) Maybe being in the military will help him grow some more and get a better perspective of the world for when he may need that perspective someday. I hope he doesn't go to Iraq though. :( Another soldier killed in lies. I hope they have better armor then our troops. I'm sure he looks very handsome in a uniform.

[bigtree]

16. I've got an outfit I'd like to see him join instead

I'm sure he'd look just as handsome in this crowd. (no uniform needed)

[Horse with no Name]

6. Say what you will about the Royals

They have always served their country in time of war--so unlike the Republican aristocracy in our country. Seems to me that Prince Harry is just following family tradition.
I would support measures that active military service should become mandatory in our Presidents. That way they won't be as eager to commit the troops without a full understanding of the sacrifice that these soldiers give.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elizabeth_II_of_the_United_Kingdom#Military_service
In 1945 Princess Elizabeth convinced her father that she should be allowed to contribute directly to the war effort. She joined the Auxiliary Territorial Service (the ATS) where she was known as No 230873 Second Subaltern Elizabeth Windsor, and was trained as a driver. This training was the first time she had been taught together with other students. It is said that she greatly enjoyed this and that this experience led her to send her own children to school rather than have them educated at home. She was the first (and as of 2006 the only) female member of the royal family to actually serve in the military, though other royal women have been given honorary ranks. During the V-E Day celebrations in London, she and her sister dressed as ordinary subjects and slipped into the crowd secretly in order to celebrate with everyone without being recognised.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Phillip
On 1 May 1939, Prince Philip began his naval career at Britannia Royal Naval College in Dartmouth as a Special Entry Cadet. In his training year, Philip won the prestigious King's Dirk and the prize for best cadet of his entry. However, with the Second World War due to begin, Prince Philip would soon see real action.

In 1940 he served on HMS Ramilles in Colombo, Ceylon, as a Midshipman, patrolling the Indian Ocean and escorting troops from Australia to the Middle East. In 1941 he was transferred to HMS Valiant, a battleship stationed in Alexandria, Egypt. Philip acted as the searchlight control on the ship, helping to sink two Italian cruisers. Later service in the war saw Philip promoted to the rank of Lieutenant and serving during the invasion of Sicily. Philip was also present onboard HMS Whelp at the surrender of Japanese forces in Tokyo Bay.

Prince Philip now has the rank of Admiral of the Fleet in the Royal Navy (as well as being the Captain-General of the Royal Marines, a Field Marshal in the British Army and a Marshal of the Royal Air Force in the RAF). He was awarded these ranks and office in 1953, the year of the Queen's coronation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles%2C_Prince_of_Wales#Military_career
The military training of The Prince of Wales, taking place in the early 1970s, included helicopter pilot flying as well as being qualified as a fighter pilot. During The Prince's years in the Royal Air Force and Royal Navy, he came to fly the following fighter aircraft (the WWII vintage Spitfire arguably having more of a historical/symbolic value than practical importance):

* Chipmunk basic pilot trainer
* Harrier T Mk.4 V/STOL fighter
* Jet Provost jet pilot trainer
* Nimrod maritime patrol aircraft
* F-4 Phantom II fighter jet
* Spitfire classic WWII fighter

Prince Charles served in the Royal Navy for five years:

* 1971–72: HMS Norfolk
* 1972–73: HMS Minerva
* 1974: HMS Jupiter
* 1974–75: Helicopter flying training at RNAS Yeovilton
* 1975: Pilot with 845 NAS on HMS Hermes
* 1976: Captain, HMS Bronington
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prince_Andrew%2C_Duke_of_York#Military_Service
Joined Royal Navy (1979)

In November 1978 it was announced that Prince Andrew intended joining the Royal Navy in the following year. In December he underwent various tests and axaminations at the RAF Officers' Selection Centre, RAF Biggin Hill. Further tests and interviews were conducted at HMS Daedalus, Lee-on-Solent, and interviews at the Admiralty Interview Board, HMS Sultan. In March and April 1979 he was with the Britannia Royal Naval College Flight, and underwent pilot grading. He was accepted as a trainee helicopter pilot and signed on for 12 years 11 May 1979.

Prince Andrew was appointed a Midshipman 1 September 1979 and entered Britannia Royal Naval College, Dartmouth 12 September. He also undertook the Royal Marine 'Green Beret' course during 1980.

After passing out of Dartmouth, Prince Andrew went on to elementary flying training with the Royal Air Force at RAF Leeming, Yorkshire, and later basic flying training with the Royal Navy at Royal Naval Air Station (RNAS) Culdrose, Cornwall, where he learned to fly the Gazelle helicopter.

Prince Andrew later converted onto the Sea King helicopter and conducting operational flying training. In 1982, he joined his first front-line unit 820 Naval Air Squadron, serving aboard the aircraft carrier, HMS Invincible.


Falklands War (1982)

In April 2, 1982, the British colony of the Falkland Islands was invaded by Argentina, an event that led to the Falklands War. Prince Andrew's ship, HMS Invincible was one of only two operational aircraft carriers available to the Royal Navy, and as such was to play a major role in the Royal Navy taskforce being assembled to sail south to retake the islands.

At first the British government were apprehensive of allowing Prince Andrew to remain on Invincible, and wished to move him to a desk job. The prospect of the son of the Queen being killed in action was a possibility, and the government wished to avoid such a circumstance. However, the Queen insisted that Prince Andrew be allowed to remain with his ship, and so he joined the Invincible as it sailed south, as a Sea King helicopter co-pilot.

Throughout the conflict Prince Andrew flew on various missions, including Anti-Submarine Warfare (ASW) and Anti-Surface Warfare search (ASUW), as well as acting as an Exocet missile decoy; a hitherto secret tactic which the Prince inadvertently revealed to journalists after the war. He also helped in casualty evacuation, transport and Search and Air Rescue (SAR). When the conflict ended, and Invincible returned to Portsmouth, the Queen and Prince Philip joined other families of the other crew to welcome the vessel home.

The Prince remained with HMS Invincible, with brief assignments to the carrier HMS Illustrious, Culdrose, and the Joint Services School of Intelligence, Ashford, Kent, until 1983


Career Naval Officer (1979-2001)
Prince Andrew in Port Stanley following the Falklands War.
Enlarge
Prince Andrew in Port Stanley following the Falklands War.

In late 1983 Prince Andrew transferred to RNAS Portland and learned to fly the Lynx helicopter. On promotion to Lieutenant on 1st February 1984, The Queen appointed him a Personal Aide-de-camp.

Later service saw the Prince aboard HMS Brazen as Flight Pilot, 1984-1986 (including deployment to the Mediterranean as part of NAVOCFORMED).

In 1986 he undertook the Lieutenants' Greenwich Staff Course at the Royal Naval College, Greenwich. On 23 October 1986 he transferred to the General List. He then did a four month helicopter warfare instructors' course at HMS Heron, RNAS Yeovilton, and served from February 1987 to April 1988 as a helicopter warfare officer in 702 Naval Air Squadron, HMS Osprey, Portland.

He served on HMS Edinburgh as an Officer of the Watch and Assistant Navigating Officer 1988-1989, including a six month deployment as part of exercise Outback 88 to the Far East.

Prince Andrew, now the Duke of York, served as flight commander and pilot of the Lynx HAS3 of HMS Campbeltown 1989 to 1991. During this assignment he served as Force Aviation Officer to STANAVFORLANT when HMS Campbeltown was flagship of the NATO force in the North Atlantic 1990-1991.

Prince Andrew passed the squadron command examination 16th July 1991. In 1992 he attended the Staff College Camberley and completed the army staff course.

He became a Lieutenant-Commander 1 February 1992, and passed the ship command examination 12 March 1992. Between 1993 and 1994, he commanded the Hunt Class Minehunter HMS Cottesmore, based at Portsmouth. Curiously, one of the officers of the ship was Sub-Lieutenant JW Gold, a Special Duties (commissioned from the ranks) electronic warfare officer. It is not clear whether this had any specific implications, however such highly specialised officers are usually deployed to major warships which contain strategic intelligence suits, and his presence on a mine countermeasures vessel is unusual.

In 1995 and 1996 the Duke of York was Senior Pilot of 815 Naval Air Squadron, a unit with over 80 aircrew, 420 ground staff and 41 helicopters - the largest flying unit in the Fleet Air Arm. The main role of the Senior Pilot was to supervise flying standards to guarantee an effective operational capability.

Prince Andrew was made a Commander 27 April 1999. He finished his naval career at the Ministry of Defence in London 1999 to 2001 as an officer of the Diplomatic Directorate of the Naval Staff.

He was released from the Active List of the Royal Navy in July 2001. In July 2005 he was promoted to Captain, Royal Navy. Unusually, although a former career officer, His Royal Highness was made an Honorary Captain, rather than given the substantive rank of Captain, as was traditional and might have been expected.

[bigtree]

8. war? This is conquest.

He seems a bit eager to get his hands in it. I've no respect for that.

[Solo_in_MD]

9. You do not understand the situation...

He is going to their version of a military academy. He has to serve after wards.

The Brits have a very strong regimental tradition. Soldiers often spend their entire careers in one regiment. When you graduate, you get to ask for posting to a particular regiment (not everyone gets their first choice). That he asked to be posted to the household guard is not surprising and probably has nothing to do with Iraq.

Remember also that the male royals have a long history of military service including Prince Andrew flying choppers in the Falklands.

[bigtree]

12. I don't care about their tradition. I don't care about the military's

but I get your point. This could have been just a more general option that has a possible line to Iraq. Fair enough. But I still hate the image of him all weaponized and ready to kill. I've had enough of those images. I've no understanding at all of anyone choosing that course right now. I think it's foolish and unnecessary.

[Skidmore]

10. At least he's willing to serve with the ordinary citizen

unlike the children of our aristocracy.

[FreedomAngel82]

17. Yes

And do all the training as well. What is William up to now days?

[smartvoter]

18. Agreed. nt

[Crankie Avalon]

19. At least he's not some aristocratic draft dodger...

...cravenly hiding out in the Air National Guard while perfectly content to let others go in his place. WHOOPS, wrong guy and wrong era!!! :blush: