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Wow, Mario Cuomo kind of almost tossing us under the bus

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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:22 AM
Original message
Wow, Mario Cuomo kind of almost tossing us under the bus
On Cabal News Network just now..."The democrats are only up because Bush is down. If they don't offer a plan for what they'd do to change things, they don't deserve to win."

Thanks, Mario. Piss off.

.
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rfranklin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
1. Yes, even disgraced House Speaker Gingrich doesn't talk...
like this about the Republics who dumped him. He keeps attacking the Dems.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
2. He has a point.
It's what a lot of us have been saying since 2002, when the Democrats thought they could coast to more seats in both chambers and got whalloped.
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Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:27 AM
Response to Reply #2
5. See post #3
He DOES NOT have a point. There IS a plan -- there are several. Maybe he should do a bit of research himself, instead of waiting for the GOP corporate whore media to spoon feed it to him.

.
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 09:24 AM
Response to Reply #5
22. What are they?
Not your plan, but the Democrats'.
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originalpckelly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:29 AM
Response to Reply #2
6. Yes, very true...
people will only be motivated against someone for so long before they tire of it, and rightfully so. All the negativity on our side and their side is ruining politics. It isn't fun. It isn't about hope. IT IS ABOUT HATE. Hatred is self-destructive, and I fear the consequences of people hating each other so much in this country.
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seabeyond Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:43 AM
Response to Reply #2
11. if you are STILL saying this, you are still NOT listening
because dems keep putting out plans allover the place. pelosi has three top 3/4 things she wants to do as SOON as repugs are out. sittin and waiting.

might get informed before attacking your party
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Tyrone Slothrop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 10:50 AM
Response to Reply #11
35. What's the Democratic solution to climate change/environment?
And don't parrot Gore. I saw his movie; he no longer works in any sort of legislative capacity.

I keep waiting to hear some sort of grand idea on this matter, and I've yet to hear one. If it's true that the corporate media is surpressing the Democratic Big Idea -- let me hear it or point me to a link.

It is the most threatening problem on this planet. I've yet to hear anything besides plans for slight reductions in emissions -- which, frankly, isn't going to cut it.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:25 AM
Response to Original message
3. Dem plans EXIST, Mario - Don't buy the corpmedia spin claim they don't.
Edited on Fri Oct-13-06 09:18 AM by blm
Media doesn't want the public to hear the details of the Dem plans DISCUSSED.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:50 AM
Response to Reply #3
13. It's not a case of whether Democratic plans exist;
Edited on Fri Oct-13-06 08:51 AM by leftofthedial
There are plenty of plans. It's a case of not exciting anyone, not even the base.

Read the posts here. Sure, there are a few Kerry groupies, a few Dean groupies, a few Clark groupies, but mainly the only real enthusiasm is collective hatred of the repuke neocons.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #13
21. here's the problem - political jockeying for position
Edited on Fri Oct-13-06 09:24 AM by blm
Charles Pierce makes the same observation I have made for years, now. The Clinton side wants to lead ON THEIR OWN. That's why they made no real effort in 2002 or 2004, and would prefer Dems lose in 2006, too. With the gOP in freefall, they are now willing to jump in front of the Dem parade.


http://www.prospect.org/weblog/2006/10/post_1639.html#013936
>>>>>>

I'M WITH FUZZY." Great things are happening in my onetime adopted home state of Wisconsin. First of all, there was Russ Feingold with the new Air America Morning Zoo crew this morning, talking about how the Democratic senatorial caucus talks big in public, and then folds in private, usually on the advice of consultants "with connections to the previous Democratic administration."

And, well, snap, as the kids say. Even if Hillary Clinton doesn't run herself, the internal fight between people who believe that Bill Clinton was the template for Democratic success, and people who believe that he was sui generis, and that Clintonism has proven to be less a governing philosophy than a cult of personality, is going to the presiding dynamic of the next two election cycles. If the Democrats don't capture either house of Congress this time around, the Clinton side will come back with a vengeance. If the Democrats do manage to gain a working majority in either house, some very famous TV pundits are going to find that their phone calls don't get returned. (And I will bet you cash money that those same people will be the loudest Democratic voices cheering on behalf of the ensuing Broderian Wheatena that passes for "bipartisanship.")

>>>>>>
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BurtWorm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 09:26 AM
Response to Reply #21
23. Charles Pierce (and Feingold) aren't contradicting Cuomo.
They're saying the same thing: The Party has to stand for something and explain loudly and clearly what it stands for.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 09:32 AM
Response to Reply #23
26. I didn't put it up for that - it was WHY the message doesn't cut through
and the reason is the political jockeying by the Clinton team who wants it to be THEIR way or the highway for Dems.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 10:17 AM
Response to Reply #21
31. Leading
Your logic doesn't compute. People will choose who to follow, no one needs the Clintons permission to lead.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 10:38 AM
Response to Reply #31
33. If they are manipulating public perception thru their greater access to
corpmedia and the placement of their moles working within to create obstacles for all other Dem voices, then that is not leading in the greater sense of the word.

Anyone who thinks it is would also respect the Bush family for their greater access to the camera and the inner frameworks of the country they manippulate to create their power.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 10:47 AM
Response to Reply #33
34. Sorry but
I think accusations of manipulation are uncalled for. Politicians have a certain message and supporters to help spread it.

If you are talking about the primaries, the Clintons stayed out of it, even if people who have worked for them were involved they did nothing sinister that I am aware of.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #34
37. I also include their inaction post 9-11, before 2002 election, before 2004
election - especially in areas where Bill showed more support for Bush and McCain WRONGLY, and also would not address the 9-11 blame and the Dems are weak on terror meme when it was apparent that the corpmedia was using it on every Dem BECAUSE of Clinton and his silence in defending the matter.

Why wait till fall of 2006 before you come out saying what NEEDED to be said before 2002 and 2004?

And Carville repping the DEm party on TV from 2002-2004 was NOT a good thing, either. He was a HIGHLY compromised voice.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 10:56 AM
Response to Reply #37
39. So you reject the idea
of bipartisan support for the President after 9/11?

Lets see that would put you in like the 10% crowd.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 11:09 AM
Response to Reply #39
41. Heh - I was in the 10% crowd - I followed terrorism closely for many years
Edited on Fri Oct-13-06 11:12 AM by blm
before 9-11 and knew instantly that Bush was a big part of the blame.

The problem is that after 9-11, the GOPs used it to claim Clinton did nothing for 8 years and Dems are weak on terror and coddle terrorists - Clinton did not defend himself throughout that time in any spirited way before the 2002 and 2004 elections and let he accusations just pile up until fall of 2006. He knows politics - he knew the weak on terror meme was a lie and an effective political tool since the corpmedia kept it out there constantly with no correction from the only Dem who could do so effectively - Clintn, the given reason for the weak on terror scenario.


Even when he had access to cameras during his book tour he was still emphasizing public support for Bush and his policies, more so than defending himself from the 8 books worth of lies blaming him for 9-11 that had been promoted in the corpmedia.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 11:16 AM
Response to Reply #41
43. The weak on terror meme in 2001
was related to proposed legislation that Dems were not all going along with. Not the Clinton legacy which was attacked from the far right, but not really getting traction in my opinion.

The other thing you overlook is the Dems have been branded weak on National Security for 30 years.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 11:29 AM
Response to Reply #43
45. Weak on terror was a partner meme to Clinton did nothing for 8 years.
I don't know how else to tell you, Jim, but terrorism has been a constant issue for those of us who understood Iran Contra, BCCI, and CIA drugrunning - 9-11 is a CONTINUATION of those matters for us.

That may bore the heck out of some people, but the FACTS and the truth cannot be changed into new exciting soundbites.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 11:58 AM
Response to Reply #45
46. I think you avoid discussing the weak on National Defense
meme and try to blame it all on Clinton. Then you say that any show of support for the President after the country is attacked is wrong when most people would disagree with you including Sen. Kerry.

Its all a blm smokescreen to attack the Clintons as usual.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 12:15 PM
Response to Reply #46
47. Weak on national defense was stamped out after Bosnia and resurrected
Edited on Fri Oct-13-06 12:16 PM by blm
after 9-11. Bush wasn't in office in 2001 because people thought he was tougher on national defense than Gore. They thought we were AT peace, so Bush didn't have to run on national defense.

And I never said there should be no national support for a president AFTER the attack on 9-11, what I was referring to was Clinton not setting the story straight when he was being BLAMED for 9-11. THAT is the difference that you are missing. Once the GOP adopted the storyline that Clinton did nothing, it was Clinton's OBLIGATION to the truth , the historic record, and to the DEm party to speak out BEFORE 2002 and 2004. He managed to do it in fall of 2006, didn't he? What stopped him from doing it earlier?

And Clinton gave MORE public support to Bush throughout the 5 years, and not just related to 9-11. Hell, he even downplayed DSM and pretended he had never heard of them.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #47
52. I don't agree with you Bill C was a major target
of attack in the years 2001 through 2004 by the RW. THe loony wing sure. But it was not filtering into the mainstream media. What did get out there was that both Clinton and Bush failed to do enough. But the story about Clinton did nothing was not until after the 2004 elections. And as much winger stuff there was about Clinton, there was 10 times more about Bush. So I really don't think it influenced the 2004 Prez race.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 12:41 PM
Response to Reply #52
54. It most certainly WAS in the MSM - after 9-11 there were even polls
Edited on Fri Oct-13-06 12:44 PM by blm
pitting Clinton and Bush and Bush and Gore where Bush always came out significantly ahead. These polls became part of the storyline.

And part of the ACCEPTED mainstream media storyline that Dems are weak on terror.

Sheesh - there have been thousands of threads covering the media's refusal to cover Clinton and Bush factually after 9-11, and ESPECIALLY in regard to terror issue. Not sure how long you've been here at DU, but this has been a major sore spot for MANY of us.

That's why when Clinton was being attacked anew on PT9-11, so many of us knew the facts COLD and could defend him vigorously.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 12:42 PM
Response to Reply #54
55. Guess we'll disagree then n/t
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 11:13 AM
Response to Reply #39
42. More accurately it puts him the crowd that has been right since
the very beginning. I just love how the "majority" calls the dissenters wacky, lunatic fringe, etc., and then when the dissenters are proved 100% right on every issue, they continue to marginalize them. Dennis Kucinich falls into this category too.

"nobody could have predicted..." except all of us that did. :eyes:
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 11:24 AM
Response to Reply #42
44. The question is
not who is right and who is wrong. If you were a representative in Washington and couldn't work with the administration after our country was attacked, then you would not have been relected and the Repuke majority would be larger. I am talking about the 2001 thru 2002 period. I am not calling anyone a lunatic, just stating the fact that it sounds like you would have been in a politically dead position.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 12:34 PM
Response to Reply #44
50. The point was about Clinton allowing the blame for 9-11 to become about
his stewardship the 8 years before where they lied blatantly to smear him and did so successfully for five years - including two election cycles, and Clinton let them do it and gave no spirited defense of his stewardship until the fall of 2006.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 12:37 PM
Response to Reply #50
53. Ya ain't gotta have 2 subthreadws on the same thing n/t
Edited on Fri Oct-13-06 12:38 PM by Jim4Wes
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 12:55 PM
Response to Reply #44
56. Just like Dennis Kucinich?
Edited on Fri Oct-13-06 12:58 PM by greyhound1966
He doesn't seem to have too much problem getting re-elected, his problem is the power elite that control our party. Representative Kucinich has far more trouble from the "leadership" that the Re:puke:s.

Are you saying that we should give the boot-liking politiwhores a pass because they, once again, were leading from the rear? Because, instead of standing up, they panicked like the sheeple they purport to represent?
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 01:04 PM
Response to Reply #56
57. More power to DK
He was my first pick when I started reading stuff on the candidates for President. He is very principled obviously. But of course DK did not do too well nationally. Can't say I agree with him on everything.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #57
58. Exactly, I don't agree with him all the time either, but there is never
any doubt about what he thinks and believes on any issue. He just stands up and says, "here's what I think about that, this is why, and here's what I want to do about it."

According to our political "experts" and very highly paid consultants, he could never win anything. Good thing the voters in his district don't listen to the "experts".
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 10:12 AM
Response to Reply #13
30. groupies?

:spray:
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Suziq Donating Member (953 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:26 AM
Response to Original message
4. Cuomo Needs to Get the Cotton Out of His Ears!
Obviously, he is not hearing the Dems screaming about their plans for Iraq, the ecomony, health care, etc. He must be watching Faux News exclusively.

I am really disappointed in him. :-(
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:32 AM
Response to Original message
7. I have been surprised though
that there isn't more of an agenda talked about in the media. It must exist, I just think all the media coverage is taken up with BushCO scandals.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 12:26 PM
Response to Reply #7
48. When you find it please post it so we'll know too.
Here's what I find;

* Honest Government - We will end the Republican culture of corruption and restore a government as good as the people it serves, starting with real ethics reform.

The Democratic Party is committed to real ethics reform and meaningful campaign finance reform that protects our rights and ensures that elected officials act ethically -- not just within the law, but within the spirit of the law. Democrats offer an aggressive reform package to reverse Republican excesses and restore the public trust.

We are committed to immediate change to lead our country in a new direction, to put an end to Republican business as usual, and to make certain our nation's leaders serve the people's interests, not special interests. For us, this commitment spans our lifetime, as we were elected to represent the people, not the powerful.

Our goal is to restore accountability, honesty and openness at all levels of government. To do so, we will create and enforce rules that demand the highest ethics from every public servant, sever unethical ties between lawmakers and lobbyists, and establish clear standards that prevent the trading of official business for gifts.


We're not Re:puke:. We are committed to two platitudes. Our goal is another platitude. Nope, no plans here.

* Real Security - We will protect Americans at home and lead the world by telling the truth to our troops, our citizens and our allies. We believe in a strong national defense that is both tough and smart, recognizing that homeland security begins with hometown security.

Democrats have a plan that is comprehensive-- from repairing our military, to winning the war on terror, to protecting our homeland security, to ensuring success in Iraq and freeing America of its dependence on foreign oil--and it will finally prepare America for the security needs of the 21st Century. And we honor the sacrifices our troops, their families and veterans by making sure we take care of them when they come home.

Democrats are unwavering in our commitment to keep our nation safe. For Democrats, homeland security begins with hometown security. That's why we led the fight to create the Department of Homeland Security and continue to fight to ensure that our ports, nuclear and chemical plants, and other sensitive facilities are secured against attack and support increased funding for our first responders and programs like the COPS program so we keep our communities safe. We want to close the remaining gaps in our security by enacting the 9/11 Commission recommendations.


We will protect you by telling the truth. We have a war plan (we're just not going to tell you what it is). We are committed to keeping you afraid of those invisible, ubiquitous, terrorists, twice. We lead the "fight" to let the re:puke:s create the largest, best funded, utterly ineffective, bureaucracy in history.

* Energy Independence - We will create a cleaner, greener and stronger America by reducing our dependence on foreign oil, eliminating billions in subsidies for oil and gas companies and use the savings to provide consumer relief and develop energy alternatives, and investing in energy independent technology.

Energy independence puts America in the driver's seat to pursue affordable and efficient energy solutions that will benefit all Americans, improve America's security, reduce the burden on American families, and help clean our environment.

American families should not have to pay the price for a failed national energy policy. They deserve an energy policy that creates a cleaner and stronger America that reduces our dependence on foreign oil and also creates new jobs for American workers. By clearing the pathways to innovation, investing in our workers and infrastructure, and providing American consumers with broader, more responsible choices, the Democratic plan will provide the tools to help move America forward, toward real energy security for the 21st century.


You don't like the oil companies and neither do we (they give their $$ to the other guys), after the election we will be in the driver's seat, and you will go where we take you (we're not going to tell you where just yet).

* Economic Prosperity - We will create jobs that stay in America and restore opportunity for all Americans, starting with raising the minimum wage, expanding Pell grants and making college tuition tax deductible. We also believe in budget discipline that reduces our deficit.

Democrats believe that the most effective way to increase opportunity for our families is a high quality, good paying job. The Democratic Party supports fair trade agreements that raise standards for all workers here and abroad, while making American businesses more competitive, and we don’t believe in tax giveaways that reward companies for moving American jobs overseas.

We also believe in balanced budgets and paying down our national debt, while Republicans continue to put huge burdens on future generations by borrowing hundreds of billions of dollars from foreign nations. We want to restore the budget discipline of the 1990s that helped eliminate deficits and spur record economic growth.

Democrats know that the key to expanding opportunity is to provide every child with a strong foundation of education. We will also help expand educational opportunities for college by making college tuition tax deductible, expanding Pell Grants, and cut student loan interest rates.


Sorry about that whole technology mess, but we will keep the minimum wage jobs that remain here and we will pour more money into the corporate school system, while still allowing them to churn out worthless diplomas at $50,000 a piece.
We believe in a balanced budget, and as soon as somebody makes one we will pass it, oh yeah, we also need another tech boom to make it appear to work.
Forget NAFTA, IMF, WTO, etc. (again, we're sorry, but nobody could have predicted...), we believe in fair trade and good paying jobs, we're sure they are there you just have to find them.
Did we mention that we support piling more debt on new grads so they have to take whatever is offered?

* Affordable Health Care - We will join 36 other industrialized nations in making sure everyone has access to affordable health care, starting by fixing the prescription drug program and investing in stem cell and other medical research.

In the wealthiest, most powerful nation on earth, no one should have to choose between taking their child to a doctor and paying the rent. Democrats are committed to making sure every single American has access to affordable, effective health care coverage. We want to fix the disastrous Medicare Part D and ensure our seniors can afford their prescription drugs.

We also believe in investing in life saving stem cell and other medical research that offers real hope for cures and treatment for millions of Americans.


Well we really won't be joining them (the 36 other industrialized nations) so much as we will pour more billions into corporate accounts so they can continue to deny you the care you need.
We need old people to vote for us, so we will try really hard to reduce the price of your prescriptions, just not sure how we can do it and keep our pharmaceutical donations coming in. Trust us, we will come up with something after we win.

* Retirement Security - We will ensure that a retirement with dignity is the right and expectation of every single American, starting with pension reform, expanding saving incentives and preventing the privatization of social security.

Democrats believe that after a life of hard work, you earn a secure retirement. Our commitment to protecting the promise of Social Security is absolute.

Democrats also recognize that Americans rely on more than just Social Security for a secure and dignified retirement. Democrats will continue to fight for genuine pension reform that protects employees’ financial security from future Enron-style abuse. We also want to work on new ways to help hard-working Americans create retirement savings.


We promise to faithfully avoid the third rail like the plague.

* Protecting Our Environment - The Democratic Party believes that it is our responsibility to protect America's extraordinary natural resources. The health of our families and the strength of our economy depend on our stewardship of the environment.

We reject the false choice between a healthy economy and a healthy environment. Farming, fishing, tourism, and other industries require a healthy environment. New technologies that protect the environment will create new high-paying jobs. A cleaner environment means a stronger economy.

Far too many Americans live with unhealthy air or water quality. Democrats will fight to strengthen the laws that ensure we have clean air to breathe and clean water to drink. And Democrats will make sure these laws are enforced.

Democrats know that a sensible energy policy is key to a strong economy, our national security, and a clean environment. Democrats are committed to the next generation of affordable and renewable energy for the 21st center and to conservation measures that will immediately reduce our dependence on foreign oil.


We believe what is left of the environment should be cleaner, we hope some new technology will come along to make this possible.
We will enforce the laws. Hey, this sounds like a definitive statement, cool.

* Civil Rights & Justice - Democrats are unwavering in our support of equal opportunity for all Americans. That's why we’ve worked to pass every one of our nation’s Civil Rights laws, and every law that protects workers. Most recently, Democrats stood together to reauthorize the Voting Rights Act.

On every civil rights issue, Democrats have led the fight. We support vigorous enforcement of existing laws, and remain committed to protecting fundamental civil rights in America.


We need brown people and women to vote for us, so expect more lip service from us in the campaigns.

* Election Reform - A fundamental tenet of our democracy is the right to vote and have that vote counted. We must be vigilant in protecting this right and ensuring that our voting system is fair for every American.

Democrats are determined to reform the voting system in this country so that it includes verification, accountability, and accuracy. It is imperative that we modernize election equipment, and guarantee access to polls with common sense reforms such as Election Day registration, shorter lines, and early voting. The Democratic Party is committed to election reform and will fight for federal standards that restore confidence in our voting process.


It is imperative that fraudulent "modern" voting equipment flips votes to us too. Those old-fashioned paper ballots are just so bulky and easily re-counted, what we really need is for the whole country to vote on the same machines so there won't be any pesky "anomalies" in the future.
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Red Zelda Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:37 AM
Response to Original message
8. Mario Chickenshit
can go to hell. Where has his sorry ass been since 1992?
Get lost.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
9. sorry to piss on your wheaties
but that's the truth.

people are not excited about the democrats and the democrats are not giving them anything to change that situation.

people are disgusted with the repukes.
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leesa Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #9
14. You know why? Because diplomacy and fiscal responsibility are
BORING. Like they should be. Because if a gvernment is doing its job, you should hardly know they are there.

You guys are lookinf for splashy stuff like the GOP has...Nuke the ME!! No More Taxes!! End Abortion!!

Don't you understand this is not real??
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #14
18. No. I'm looking for the kind of hope and enthusiasm for the future
that Bill Clinton inspired in the majority of Americans.

Today, more Americans actively do not like the leading Democrats than like them.

Ask an ordinary person what the Democrats stand for. They won't have a clue.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 09:30 AM
Response to Reply #18
25. Because the MEDIA has targeted every Dem who stuck their neck out since
1997 - and the Clintons, who WERE able to be known before then, decided to use that cache to back up Bush throughout 2001 - 2005 in very public ways.

No other Demcrat has been able to BECOME better known in the corpmedia world that rules this last decade.

They IMPEACHED Clinton before he left office. And every Dem who has crossed them since has been impeachmented the same way - Gore - DIxie Chicks - Dan Rather - Kerry - Dean. It took the stark devastation of Katrina to finally blow back enough at the media to break that pattern.

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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #25
27. fear of reprisal from the oligarchy is no reason to silence oneself
that, in fact, is cowardice, not leadership.
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blm Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 10:05 AM
Response to Reply #27
29. WHO was silent? Name me who was silent and who was MUTED.
Edited on Fri Oct-13-06 10:06 AM by blm
But, you could be right about SOME Dems who maybe work with the oligarchy out of fear - - the Clintons WERE extraordinarily silent in their support for Dems on crucial issues - like 2000 election fraud, 9-11, Tora Bora, Abu Ghraib, call for Rumsefeld's firing, Bush's violation of the IWR, etc........

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Tyrone Slothrop Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 10:54 AM
Response to Reply #14
38. You remember JFK? You remember "we'll put a man on the moon
in 10 years"?

Where is that? If Kerry (or anyone) had declared that if they were elected president, we would have an alternative energy source in 10 years -- and no American would ever have to pay to put gas in their cars again, I think the reaction would have been overwhelming.

I think everyone I know would have been ecstatic.

You can have big ideas that are GOOD and NOT BORING.
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Name removed Donating Member (0 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #9
16. Deleted message
Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.
 
Atman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 09:05 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. Here's one for "leftofthedial"
"The Democratic Party has become the liberal and conservative party in America. If you want to be fiscally conservative, you've got to be for us. If you want to conserve natural resources, you've got to be for us," he said. "If you want a change of course in Iraq ... you've got to be for us."

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15248021 /

Not even a formal platform, and it still has plenty for any sane, rational American to get exciting about. What is a shame that we should be exciting about just plan normal, sane policy. It's like being thrilled to find out there is air when you wake up in the morning...this is just basic stuff that the GOP has completely fucked up. Maybe that is why YOU don't find it "exciting," but for a lot of Americans it is more than enough to get them to the polls.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #17
24. That's great. Thanks again, Bill.
We need the current party leaders to articulate repeatedly and clearly such a clear, concise message that that is who we are. I will say that finally, after five long years of waiting, I do hear a few Democratic voices critical of king george and his party's bungling. It's about damned time.

I don't need "excitement." I already believe those things. It's not about me. It's about the party. Talk to ordinary people and they are plenty pissed off at Republicans. Despite what I see as pretty clear differences in some important areas, they don't seem to trust the Democrats much more than the repukes. It is being fed up with repukes that will get people to the polls, not excitement about what the Democrats are saying.
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Greyhound Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #24
59. They don't trust as a conditioned response from years, decades
even, of betrayal. Ask the steelworkers, the auto workers, the airline workers, the IT workers, the farmers, the textile workers, need I continue? Give us these concessions now and we'll take care of it later, only later never comes. The lay-offs are in their 20th year with no let up, the industries are gone and nothing has replaced them, the pension money was stolen and no one is in jail. The S&L's were looted and Niel is selling "edumacational" software to school districts packed with cronies. Michael Milken went to jail for literally stealing millions from little old ladies, and he is still a multi-millionaire and doing the lecture circuit.

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me for a whole generation and I'm an idiot.
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BootinUp Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #17
32. I think
leftofthedial is in a more conservative part of the country than the majority of DUers, hence the perception that people are not excited about Dems could be valid depending on who he talks to everyday. Ease up a bit.
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leftofthedial Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 09:13 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. don't avoid the issue--THAT is how the freeps discuss things
I'll stack my Democratic Party cred against anyone's, including yours, pal. The troubling FACT is that the majority of Americans are not enthusiastic about the Democrats. Thankfully, the repukes have screwed the pooch damn near to death, which, if Diebold doesn't trump democracy again, will likely bring about a shift of power. But if the Democrats don't start articulating a clearer positive agenda for the future, it will be difficult to exploit and maintain that power.
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rock Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:41 AM
Response to Original message
10. Here's our plan
You know what bush's* plan is? Neither does he. But we'll do something different.
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NNN0LHI Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:48 AM
Response to Original message
12. Nixon won an election with a "secret plan" to get us out of Vietnam
Mario must have a bad memory.

Don
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acmejack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 08:56 AM
Response to Original message
15. Mario emerges from hiding to say that?
Fuck off, Mario.
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ContraBass Black Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 09:16 AM
Response to Original message
20. "Kind of almost"
That's quite a qualifier.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 09:38 AM
Response to Original message
28. He's right. It's not very inspiring to hear Democrats campaigning on
"Bush, Bush, Bush, Bush."

Bush is bad, and it's good remind people of that. But, you still have to explain what you stand for and how your framework for action is superior.
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Rose Siding Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 10:52 AM
Response to Reply #28
36. It's almost funny that there's anyone who hasn't heard what dems are sayin
g. Almost.
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1932 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 09:04 PM
Response to Reply #36
60. The first thread I read after this one was about how great Biden was
on TV. The only thing the poster commented on was Biden criticizing Bush.

That doesn't win elections.
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Tesha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 11:02 AM
Response to Original message
40. Mario is, as usual, correct. On the nose. (NT)
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HardRocker05 Donating Member (486 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 12:30 PM
Response to Original message
49. well, he's got a point. nt
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onenote Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-13-06 12:37 PM
Response to Original message
51. gee, Mario, does that include Andrew?
So the Democrats don't have a plan to change things? Does he support his own son?

Geez, Mario, just be quiet.
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