I don't understand the enthusiasm for absentee ballots...help me out here.

[Atman]

I voted by absentee ballot in '04 because I was working the polls in another precinct, so I had to. It was the first time I've ever done so, and it DID NOT make me feel more comfortable/secure/whatever. First of all, there's the secret ballot aspect of it...I had to fill out my name and address on the envelope into which my ballot was placed. WTF? So the registrars can look me up before they even open my ballot? What's this about? And besides that, all I did was stand in the registrars office, fill out my non-secret ballot, and hand it to the clerk. What is to stop an unscrupulous (read: GOP) employee or operative from simply ditching the paper ballot right then and there? Circular file it before I even got to the door?

I'm sorry, I think this rush towards absentee ballots could be freakin' suicide. You should at least check to see what type of voting equipment your precinct uses. Here in CT, they're still the old metal hand-crankers. I love them...rock solid secure. Can't fuck with them. But handing over my ballot to a stranger, with my name and address clearly written on it did in no way make me feel good about my vote. I don't know why anyone else thinks it helps, either. It seems to actually make it EASIER to steal or "lose" our votes.

Thoughts?

.

[LoZoccolo]

1. In Chicago, you can place an absentee ballot at a polling place.

In the county building they have it set up just like a precinct with voting machines and a ballot box that you can use for some period before an election. This might be an option for some people.

[KittyWampus]

3. And those very same votes probably won't be counted along with all

the other absentee votes that don't get counted.

[LoZoccolo]

9. Or you could get hit by a car on the way to the polling place!

Or your fingers could get slammed into a door and you can't grab the little poker thingy or touch the screen or pull the lever or fill in the bubble and the person you have to tell your vote too could vote for someone else.

[Atman]

11. Hey, thanks for playing the "absurd stretch" card!

At least we got it out of the way early!

.

[KittyWampus]

2. ATman, Absentee ballots do NOT GET COUNTED most of the time

they are emphatically NOT the answer and DU'ers who think they've struck on some solution are really being foolish.

Do not use them if you are not going to be absent... or your vote will be wasted.

[cherokeeprogressive]

6. Have you any idea how broad a brush you just used to

paint myself and every other employee of a registrar of voters?

I have a minute, which should be all it takes for you to tell me about your personal experience with absentee ballots and how they are processed in the registrar's offices.

So go ahead, tell me about the personal knowledge you have about absentee processing. When you're done, I'll tell you how it actually happens...

[Atman]

8. I've been an Assistant Registrar of Voters in my town...go on, I'll listen

Seriously.

No broad brush at all. Just valid concern over an overly enthusiastic move toward a system that was supposed to be just a convenience for a few people who might not have access, not a first-line voting mechanism.

.

[cherokeeprogressive]

14. Post #13 n/t

[MrCoffee]

12. Please read this report re: Lucas County (Toledo OH) BoE

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/electionsvoter/lucas/LucasCountyInvestigationReport.pdf

This scares the absolute hell out of me, and Lucas County went for Kerry in 2004. I lived in Toledo then, and worked my keester off for Kerry and for Election Protection as a poll monitor. I saw people getting turned away at the polls.

I hope your system is better than this. Personally, based on my experience, I have no confidence at all in any local BoE.

[EC]

4. Ditto

I thought the same...what's to stop them from ditching all Dem ballots and only counting Repuge?

[MrCoffee]

5. Absentee ballots are no better than voting at the polls.

An investigation into the Lucas County (Toledo) Ohio Board of Elections found horribly negligent oversight and management of the absentee ballots sent in.

Read this for a good example of the incredibly shitty job being done by local Boards of Election all over the country. That it has the misfortune of being Toledo's (I lived in Toledo in 2004, and worked with Election Protection as a poll monitor) doesn't in any way mean that this isn't happening where you live. Lucas County went for Kerry in 2004.

http://www.sos.state.oh.us/sos/electionsvoter/lucas/LucasCountyInvestigationReport.pdf

[symbolman]

7. I spent a year making a film about electronic voting

we interviewed TOP experts in the field (Avi Rubin, David Dill, and many more) and I can state Emphatically that it's NUTS to vote absentee, might as well be a provisional ballot, they can much more easily be THROWN OUT.

I wish people would stop telling everyone to do it.

If you want to listen to those who KNOW it's best to read anything by Mark Crispin Miller or Congressman Conyers.

I think some of those trying to reform the system or skirt the Voting machines have gone over the edge, too many cooks and egos involved with much to gain in notoriety, etc. No offense intended for those who are so passionate about it. We've learned firsthand here about Bev Harris's MO, and frankly anyone who hosts or promotes her has lost credibility in my book. They need to clean HOUSE.

Stick with those mentioned above, they KNOW.

[pnwmom]

17. Why is it nuts to vote absentee if your only alternative is a Diebold

vote erasing machine? I don't get it.

[Atman]

19. I stated pretty clearly that you should check which machines you'll use

That is a big point. Everyone seems to want to vote Absentee no matter what, but it does make a difference. If you're in a purely Diebold/DRE precinct, then you have special concerns. In places like CT, though, lots of us are still on the old mechanical machines, and I would trust them far more than an absentee ballot at this point.

.

[symbolman]

20. There's your answer

Be a responsible voter, find out what machines or ballot counting scene and then make the decision.

As for the Machines, IF there is fraud they will be more likely to find it IN the machines, NOT on a piece of paper that's been thrown away..

Thanks Atman for the elucidation.

[pnwmom]

21. The Princeton report said that fraud can easily occur

that will be completely undetectable INSIDE the machines.

So electronic machines without any paper-backup (no little paper that gets printed up and stored) seem like a worse alternative than an absentee ballot, to me.

What about jurisdictions like Oregon, where everything is paper and mail in?

[pnwmom]

22. The person I responded to was making a much broader statement.

[catmandu57]

10. First off it's not a secret as to how I'm going to vote

I'm a democrat, a very loud democrat, so, it's no suprise to anyone that I'm going to vote democratic. Second if they want to destroy my vote they're going to have to work at it, no electronic deletion unknown to all, there will be a paper trail.
That's why I'm voting absentee, that and the fact it's getting very difficult physically to get to my polling place, it's much easier to sit at my dining room table.
Also this election we have a number of judges up for reappointment that I knew nothing about until I sat down and did an internet search on them, most people go to vote who don't know anything about them either, that's why I'm voting absentee.

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. Registrar of Voters Employee here (with scruples)

I'm actually the Lead Poll Worker Trainer for my county. I can't tell you how fucking offended I get when people such as yourself imply that elections are being stolen by me and my co-workers.

How many times have you had the opportunity to see what goes on INSIDE the Registrar's office?

Let me clue you in on how we do it in my county...

Absentee ballots are opened by people from the community. NOT REGISTRAR EMPLOYEES. It happens in our warehouse, and can be watched by anyone who wishes to be a "Poll Watcher".

When the envelopes are opened, the ballots are removed WITHOUT having any names read. Before that though, the signature on the envelope is checked against the one we have on file. Once the signature check is done, they're shuffled off to the folks who actually do the opening. No signature is attached to any ballot once it is opened. The envelopes are discarded, and the ballots are packaged for tallying. EVERY ABSENTEE BALLOT IS COUNTED. Can I be any more clear?

What the fuck makes you think that the only unscrupulous employees of registrars are rethuglicans?

Before you get into the standard "well, I didn't mean to include ALL registrars..." you didn't EXCLUDE any, which means you INCLUDED all of us.

One last thing: contrary to the lofty opinion of others posting on this thread, EVERY ABSENTEE BALLOT IN MY COUNTY IS COUNTED. Accurately, and honestly. Without regard to how a vote was cast.

We work for peanuts, work our asses off, and do our job diligently and honestly. Yet, people like YOU would think nothing at all of accusing US of stealing elections, being "unscrupulous" or dishonest, or partisan.

In my office, all you have to do is MENTION your political leanings, and you're fucking history. It's taboo here, as it should be.

Hope you have a great day.

[Atman]

15. The last two elections, I worked for the REPUBLICAN registrar

Party affiliation, as you say, is taboo in the office. I have no problem working for the Republican Registrar, because once you're working, party affiliation never comes up with anyone. Why would it?

The key sentence is here, Cherokee...

Let me clue you in on how we do it in my county...

Your assumption that all of America is as upstanding as your precinct is pretty naive, imho.

Hope you have a great day, too. But I hope you get the opportunity to open your eyes a bit, too! Your level of anger, and "taking it personally" strikes me as very odd. You had to have known that the entire country is NOT using the same system you happen to have in your little utopian enclave, right?

.

[cherokeeprogressive]

16. "Republican" Registrar?

I had no idea that there was anything other than non-partisan Registrars of Voters.

Your post didn't make any distinctions, just mentioned "unscrupulous" employees.

[Atman]

18. Well there you have it. You thought you knew everything!

Here we have a Republican and a Democratic Registrar of Voters. I've worked for both, but we have a mostly democratic town, so they seem to get more dem volunteers, and I've just been assigned to whomever needed the help.

So, obviously, everything is not as universally wonderful as it is in your state. I'm not trying to be snarky...well...no more than YOU were!

PEACE, Cherokee...we're all in this together. Please don't dismiss others' fears and concerns just because you don't have any.

.

[magellan]

23. How are those absentee ballots being counted?

In my county, they're run through opti-scan equipment which reads them into DIEBOLD tabulating software.

No, I don't trust absentee ballots no matter who's opening them.

[Fleshdancer]

24. My logic....

I don't claim to be right, but my train of thought concerning absentee ballots is that it is probably handled by more people making it harder to steal and/or destroy without getting caught. With more people involved, it also increases the possibility of someone whistle blowing if a criminal act does occur.

Overall I think most people involved in the process are good, decent people and I'll trust a group of strangers over a diebold box any day with my vote.