Who is ready to make a vow not to vote for any Dem Senator who

[The Backlash Cometh]

didn't have the balls or ovaries to filibuster?

I really don't think Kerry, Biden or Clinton should even bother wasting a dime of precious DLC money.

[Kralizec]

1. I've set my Lithmus test long ago.

Most of the Dems have failed it.

[Mass]

2. What about Boxer, Byrd, Feingold, ...

I dont hear them calling for a filibuster. Actually, Byrd has not even said how he would vote.

[The Backlash Cometh]

3. Why should we make an exception for any of them?

It seems that the best stepping stone for president is Govenor. At least it seems to work for the Republicans.

[Mass]

7. I dont know. I just noted the named attacks were selective.

As for governors, of course, they do not have to filibuster, but we can probably guess where they stand.

[The Backlash Cometh]

16. I only picked them because those are the ones that seemed interested

in a run. Just thought of them off the top of my head.

[GoodSpud]

4. I'll take that vow...

Of course I am from Texas so it is a moot point....

T.D.P.

I will vow not to support them in a presidential run...

[zanne]

87. I vow that if they don't filibuster and I vote for them anyway....

It'll be as an Independent, not a Democrat.

[emulatorloo]

5. It is to Reid and the Judiciary Committee Dems - However I will vow

not to vote for Sen Nelson from Nebraska, as he is voting yes

[Frances]

6. Who's ready to make a vow not to vote for any Dem Senator

who is too stupid to know which battles to fight and which to let go. Of course, Alito is a disaster. But there are just not enough votes to keep him off the Court. It's a waste of time to filibuster.

[The Backlash Cometh]

18. We want to see the fight. We're tired of everything happening

in a calculated way behind closed door. Where's the passion?

[seabeyond]

35. i am sorry you dont see it. i do. i have been watching select dems

coming out day after day after day fighting for US. yet the one i see doing it most often, most effectively and on the nose, most forceful...... kerry.... is attacked immediately by people on this board by a bunch of stupid whiney ass comments to dismiss him

dont support the dems as you DEMAND they behave in a way it isnt even possible because they dont have the votes.

get pissed,

get pissed at the americans that voted for bush
media
repug talking heads
asshole alita
or bush

[The Backlash Cometh]

37. The DNC just called for a donation. I asked them to call me after the

filibuster.

You know what? If they want me to sit here everyday putting my two cents on the keyboard for them, expressing my views and e-mailing whoever they like me to e-mail, that will cost them nothing. But if they want me to feel a little pain, get out and help out in their campaigns, donate money, well, that will take far more effort on their part. They're going to have to convince me that they are done playing backroom politics and are ready to lead.

[seabeyond]

39. i will be out there campaigning, donating money

this isnt a hard one for me. as a matter of fact, i am donating monthly off my credit card. i see a lot of good in the dems. i see a lot of smart. i would take a dem 100% over the repug. i am concerned about my kids future in many ways. i want more for them. i simply am not disappointed in the dem. i see a lot of good to appreciate and value.

[The Backlash Cometh]

45. Good for you.

Possibly because of people like you, I'll vote Dems. But at some point in my life, I've got to move on too and find other creative ways to contribute to society. Politics just hasn't been productive enough for me.

[seabeyond]

54. i hear you dude. i thought i was done 2004. my family really

wants me to get back to my life also. i really really hear ya. and you know, i am not a democrat. and i have never been a democrat. i tend to always vote democratic because i am opposed to dishonest unethical and stupid people which is what repugs seem to offer up.

kerry would have been a good president. so would gore, edwards, clark, dean, feingold, .... the dems have a good crowd. they are smart, and as far as politicians go, pretty damn honest. those are plusses.

bushco's had to steal it. (do we get pissed kerry didnt wave a magic wand that theft was caught, ya. but not pragmatic.) he won. we offered up a good candidate. this is a time in our history new to all of us. never seeing such corruption. never having had media taken over. then religion swept thru and culted the american people.

alito is the manifestation of a decade of the american people walking into this future. this is what the people created. the politicians are almost after thought. they want a world again where there is no abortion. they will get it. and that world will remind them why we left it behind before. it is the way progression works. i still see things needing to get worse before it gets better. or else it is just a bandaide, lesson isnt learned and we wont be to the point of healing yet. it almost feels ot me like we have to visit, truly visit this world the right is creating to kick it to the curb one final time.

we are pained what we see now. what we saw yesterday. but it isnt enough, for enough people. this isnt my lesson, or yours. they need to see the failure, utter failure of health care to implement federal health care. they need to watch their seniors die cause they cant get prescriptions. they need to see the poor who cant feed their kids revolt in crime and chaos. they need to see a loss of middle income to see how much we all have to work together. corporation, employee and customer.... together. not one with power, abusing the other two.

that is our time in history.

and, once we hit bottom....... then we will have an opportunity to rebuild, better. stronger. more equal. but that isnt today. you can see it in the american people, it isnt today. and all this mess i cant allocate all responsibility on a handful in minority in congress. it is all of us.

i am not hopeless though. i am hopeful

[The Backlash Cometh]

60. Maybe we should give up on the presidency, and start getting rid

of false Democrats like Lieberman and Ben Nelson? We really need a success here, and I say we start small and work our way up?

[Frances]

40. Heart is important but so are brains

nt

[The Backlash Cometh]

46. Fine. Call me when you find someone there who has enough brains

to figure out how to filibuster Alito.

[Frances]

53. When I was young, people had a saying that explains this

terrible situation and that was "Why beat a dead horse."

I admire those senators who have said they will vote against Alito. I don't expect them to beat a dead horse though. I would prefer that they put their energies where they might do some good.

[The Backlash Cometh]

56. There's another saying, sometimes a stallion needs to kick the stall.

It's one thing to be caged, but another to be domesticated.

[Frances]

80. I don't think a filibuster can stop Alito's nomination

So, what purpose does a filibuster serve?

Those of us who are anti-Bush have no viable choice but to stay with Dems. Those who are on-the-fence Democrats and independents are the ones to whom the filibuster will mean something.

Because the Dems who would be filibustering have no way to get their message out (Congress and the White House and the media are all controlled by corporations), I am afraid that a filibuster will hurt our chances in the 2006 elections.

And I view the 2006 elections as a last chance to save our country from Darth Vader types.

If I am wrong and the filibuster does play well with the voters in 2006(something that the polls indicate will not happen), I will be a very happy person!

[The Backlash Cometh]

82. I've already said it several times.

The Democrats have to stop being so predictable. For one thing, there may be many Dems within the party who really are DINOS, and if they know that the real Dems in the party aren't going to push them to stand together, they'll continue to erode the strength of the party from within. Let's get rid of the sell-outs. We start with a walk-out, or filibuster. And those Dems who don't believe in it, should be targeted for replacement.

[Frances]

93. I used to believe exactly what you are saying

When my native South started replacing segregationist Dems with racist Repubs, I thought that at least we would know who was a real Dem. Look where that got us.

The segregationist Dems were racist, no question about it, but they were also economic liberals. In the 60s I went to college on a National Defense Education Act Loan, co-sponsered by an Alabma Senator (Lister Hill). The Southern Dems backed Roosevelt's New Deal, including social security. The Repubs who have replaced them are cutting college loans and believe that social security should be privatized.

All I can say is that I learned the hard way that I shoul be careful what I wish for. That said, I hope we do get more Dems who are able to be non-racist and to continue FDR's economic vision while still getting re-elected.

[The Backlash Cometh]

99. You don't replace a DINO with a Republican.

For God's sake. What kind of strategy is that?

[Frances]

105. Of course, I'd like to replace a DINO with a liberal Dem

but that ain't going to happen in my native Alabama. Have you ever worked on a campaign? It's not easy getting elected to office as an outright liberal even in blue states.

[cascadiance]

106. You do it by reframing the discussion...

and campaign on things that should cut across party lines. Like asking them how as a Republican they will:

1) pay bills without a bankruptcy law to protect them when a family member gets an illness that takes their life savings.
2) get another job, when another family member has their job "outsourced" by their present employer and many other employers.
3) they get hauled in because they is some confusion as to who they associate with when they've been spied upon.

There's tons of ways of showing that the Republicans don't support them, and that voting is more than just about voting against gay marriage, etc. That is the challenge in the south. But don't ask the rest of the country to sacrifice what's left of our democracy because you can't find ways to impress on your fellow citizens there to vote for politicians that have equal concern about our future that we do.

There's a reason that the same state can vote for one of the most backward congress critters (Sensenbrenner) and have one of our best senators (Feingold). There is a reason that the same district here in San Diego that voted in the crook Cunningham over and over again still voted for Barbara Boxer in last election. That is they resonate with that voting populace's issues, not cave before you even campaign into becoming a "Republican Lite". We need to get rid of these DINO's.

[Frances]

107. Actually I now live in California

And the last time I looked, Arnold was our governor!

I would love it if people voted the way you want them to. It's just not easy to get them to do so.

By the way, how do you plan for us to get rid of Arnold?

[cascadiance]

108. Just have him face a REAL alternative candidate in a REAL election...

... instead of the joke the recall was.

In a real election, when was the last time a Republican won a state-wide vote in a regular election? Wasn't 2004! The Dems swept the Republicans then. THe only Republicans in state-wide office (McPherson and Schwarzenneger) are there with a recall and an appointment when they Republicans forced out Shelly

[howmad1]

109. Pray tell......

Where should they put their energies that will do the most good? Please list them in order of importance. Uh, huh, stumped you, did'nt I. If you think beating a dead horse named Alito is a waste of time, you might have a little problem.

[jsamuel]

77. what's the difference between a Filibuster and a no? a no and a yes?

shoot, what's the difference between just converting to a REpublican, because they are just going to keep winning everything anyway...




Your line of reasoning is shown to be completely faulty.

[SaveElmer]

8. No...

Counterproductive in the extreme.

[cry baby]

9. Even though I have no dem senator, I would not be ready to

take that vow. I take the sum of the senator's voting record into account. If they show courage on other things, I would give them hell about voting for cloture, but I wouldn't write them off altogether.

I thing those of you that are lucky enough to have dem representatives and senators should have to live somewhere that you feel that you aren't represented on ANY issue. Maybe then you would be grateful for having someone that would vote your way sometimes, at least.

[Lindacooks]

10. Nope. That is what keeps Repukes in power - Democrats

not voting for Democrats because of single issues or just a few issues. As long as we vote against each other, Repukes will keep winning and things will get worse.

[depakid]

65. Wrong

Look at the evidence.

Since the DLC gained predominant influence, the Dems have lost EVERY SINGLE CONGRESSIONAL ELECTION.

The Republicans took back Congress for the first time since 1946. Obviously, something's not working here.

What's not working is that the DINO's have betrayed traditional Democratic values and legitimized Republican policies. They've made the party look ineffectual and weak.

So long as there are significant numbers of DINO's especially high profile ones, the Dems are doomed to remain the minority. Time to clean house & stand for something again.

[Lindacooks]

81. Wrong.

Do the math. In Minnesota two liberals ran against Pawlenty, and what happened? Pawlenty won. You can't escape math, no matter how you spin it. Well, maybe you can.

[depakid]

95. Just look at the evidence

Run as Republican lite- fail to naionalize the elections- and lose again.

I think that's acually what a lot of people in the Party want. To remain losers. Trouble is- it's gotten to the point where the Dems aren't even relevant anymore. They might as well pack their bags and go home.

[MadHound]

11. You've got mine

In fact I'll go you one better, no filibuster from the Dems, dump them and go Green. It is high time that the Democratic party realize that there are real consequences if they continue to ignore the wishes of their constituents. All you will be doing by continuing to vote for them this fall and thereafter is enabling a spineless, gutless shell of a party.

[Peace Patriot]

33. I don't agree, MadHound. It is plain fact that elections, including

primary elections, are now entirely rigged, with Bushite corporations owning and controlling the tabulation of our votes, with 'TRADE SECRET," PROPRIETARY programming code, and virtually no audit/recount controls. I think that our democracy is hanging by the thinnest of threads right now, and that, unless we regain public control of elections, election transparency and our right to vote, it will all over.

It is already clear that we will have no say in who "our" candidate is in '08, or who will become president. The War Party* will decide, and Diebold and ES&S will duly tweak the percentages to create the desired outcome. I think one of our few hopes is that the War Party will decide to put a War Democrat in office for four years (in '08). I think this is a likely scenario--and I think it's likely that Hillary Clinton has already been chosen. This would give us a window of opportunity to restore transparent elections, nationwide, and quickly, since even a War Democrat has to pay lip service to progressive, good government values (such as transparent elections). I think--if they go with a War Democrat (for their own reasons)--it will be a very rocky time. For one thing, I think one of their reasons would be to get a military Draft (which Bush can't do). It will be hard to stay focused on the ONE THING that we MUST DO, to start restoring democracy in this country: transparent elections. And we MUST stay focused on this, and work for it at the state/local level, while we see what happens nationally.

For this reason, I advocate remaining in the Democratic Party, and working with WHOEVER the powers-that-be foist upon us as a presidential candidate, to get a national election reform bill, like Russ Holt's HR 550, that, among other things, bans undisclosed software. (This would effectively eliminate private corporations--including the current Bushite corporations--from our elections.)

We will not have ANY chance at a NATIONAL quick fix on election transparency if the War Democrat is NOT "selected." And the War Democrat has no chance of being "selected" if a lot of people defect to the Greens--because Diebold and ES&S cannot simply manufacture an entire election (not yet anyway). The candidate has to have SOME support; there have to be votes in order for the vote to be tweaked.** Further, the Left has to gain credit--gain a seat at the table--with this War Democrat, in order to PUT election transparency on the table. We can't do it if we defect, and leave the the Democratic Party to the "Democratic" fascists. I think we have to fight back WITHIN the party, to regain the right to vote. And that is my ONLY reason for not tearing up my Democratic Party, 40 year membership card. I think this democracy is over--it is history--if we do not take our election system back from Diebold and ES&S.

MadHound, are you familiar with the history of Hitler's rise in Germany in the early 1930s? That's what I'm smelling. A splintering of the center/left, so they can install the real Hitler in '12. And then we will see what all these extraordinary executive powers that Bush is putting in place, are for.

1. Put a War Dem in charge, for one term. Let her/him get a military Draft, put down the protests (Draft protests, veterans' protests, food riots, etc.), and either invade Iran/Syria or set things up for it--and, very important, start heaping all the blame for Bush's domestic and foreign policy disasters on the Democrats. Break up the center/left (the majority coalition that actually elected Kerry). And in this political, economic and civil chaos, 2. Install, say, Donald Rumsfeld. (My pick for the worst of them. I call him "the Lurker.")

These are not normal political times, MadHound--is what I'm arguing. And I think the evidence for it is very strong, and very scary. I think we have to abandon ideology--and, indeed, sidestep even some stark realities (more war)--in order to get the citizenry back in charge of the government. And we have to be very PRACTICAL about this: and see to the very mechanism of the peoples' sovereignty, their right to vote. The majority didn't want this war, and they detest Bush. (38% approval rating!--nearly all year; and incredible disapproval of all Bush policy, for two years now, way up in the 60% to 70% range.) Clearly, their will is not being done, and that's where we must START--back at square one, the right to vote.

Caesar is going to go right ahead with his wars, and spend us into bankruptcy--and put us in peril of losing the very planet to nuclear warfare. We have to restore representative government in order to deal with Caesar!

--------------

*(In my view, the War Party consists of 100% of the Repub leadership and about 50% of the Dem leadership. This is WHY we have a war--despite the huge opposition of the American people, who have opposed this war from the beginning, before the invasion (58%, Feb. '03!). I think at least some of these War Dems have themselves been illegitimately elected, in non-transparent, and/or war profiteer "bought and paid for" elections. And I do think some are in direct collusion with the rightwing, and their electronic voting coup. I don't know what else could account for the Dem Party's DEAFENING SILENCE on Bushites controlling the vote count with SECRET programming. And I think the OTHER 50% of the Dem leadership--with a few notable exceptions--are cowed by the War Dems, and dare not speak out.).

**(The limitations on electronic fraud--it has to be pre-programmed to certain percentages, in my opinion (or, at least, that was the case in 2004)--also means that it is theoretically possible to overcome the fraud with an overwhelming voter turnout. We damn near did it, in 2004, but they added in Ohio and other massive vote suppression. However, Ohio and Florida are unique Republican tyrannies, and these things--suppression of black and student votes--would not be permitted on such a massive scale in other states. Ergo, if you figure a 5% to 10% automatic advantage to Republicans and other pro-war candidates--which I think is generally the case--you need to go for, say, a 15% to 20% margin of victory, in order to (merely) win.)

[MadHound]

34. Sorry friend, I don't play politics with people's lives

And putting in a war dem isn't going to make the dying stop anytime soon, in fact given Dem's propincity to try and out hawk the 'Pugs, we'll be in Iran or Syria, or both within a year of a war dem taking office. Sorry, but putting a war dem in to bring about peace is like fucking for virginity, a goddamn oxymoron.

As for as election transparency goes, yes, that is a critical issue. But it is one that we, the people can address on our own, without having to cut deals with political devils. The power of the intiative ballot is one great way to go about this. Another issue to address is to take the money out of government, and that too can be taken care of with the initiative ballot.

Quite frankly, if we continue to reward these fascist enablers, fascism will be here in force much sooner that 2012 friend, I'd say around '09, war dem or no.

[Peace Patriot]

43. "...putting a war dem in...". MadHound, you are still talking as if we

have the power to "put" someone "in." We don't have that power any more. Nor do we have the power to win state initiatives that Diebold and ES&S don't want us to win. Recently, in Ohio, there were four election reform initiatives on the ballot, predicted to win by 60/40 votes, which were flipped over on election day into 60/40 LOSSES! The machines and their masters are now dictating election policy and preventing reform.

Granted, Ohio is an extreme case of Republican tyranny (comparable to the national scene), but still, you see the problem. How can we reform elections with an election system that Diebold and ES&S control? I am all for any state/local effort that has any chance at all to restore election transparency, but the state/local movements, and word of mouth movements--including initiatives--are a slow slog, and may not succeed in time to prevent an all-out Nazi state. I DO support local efforts, and am involved in one myself. It is a wonderful grass roots movement. But I believe that our democracy is in so much peril that ANY chance for a quick national solution on election reform should be taken advantage of. To me, it is the Priority #1 issue--getting the people back in control of the government. We are lost without our right to vote. We can do NOTHING about the war without the right to vote!

We, the people--the majority--currently have only very limited power in national elections. We have NO power over who the candidate is. None! We MUST realize this. It is the truth. It is reality. And we have to strategize with this in mind. We are going to be faced, again, with two War Party candidates. With one of them, we will have a chance at fast-paced national election reform, which can give us election transparency immediately (to begin electing a better Congress). With the other, we will have no chance at election transparency. What are we going to do in that situation?

And I'd like to ask you this, MadHound: What good is your Green vote (or other alternative vote) in an election system where your vote can be 'disappeared' at the push of a button? What good is my Democratic vote? And what good are our beliefs?

You currently do not possess the right to vote. Nor do I. We are non-sovereign people, as is everyone else in this country. We MUST do whatever we can to regain our sovereignty--and if that means playing sides in these charade elections, so be it. We have been demoted, MadHound. We are peons--serfs--slaves, as to how the political establishment regards us, and what they have done to us. We are not slaves, in our own view. But we are to THEM. Slaves and cannon fodder. We have to REGAIN our status as citizens.

If you were a slave in ancient Rome--which had legal provision for slaves to buy their way out of slavery--and you'd saved up your drachmas, and had accumulated enough money to buy your way out of slavery, would you have then taken a principled stance on the matter, and said, 'I refuse to pay for what is my right as a human being, not to be in bondage." Or would you have compromised on the principle, and freed yourself?

I think that your statement "I don't play politics with peoples' lives" is the statement of someone who has not yet realized how powerless we are, and the extent to which we have been disenfranchised and enslaved. We don't have the power to save peoples' lives. They run roughshod right over us. In New Orleans, in Iraq, in Afghanistan--and soon, as we all fear, in Iran and Syria. We don't have the power to stop the war. They have taken that very power away. And we MUST get it back, in whatever wily, strategic and political way we can pull it off.

I don't know about you, MadHound, but I'm old, and I've seen quite a lot in my time. Back in the '60s, after JFK, MLK and RFK had all been assassinated (in the space of five years!), and we were given a choice for president of a V-P contaminated by LBJ's slaughter in Vietnam, and Richard Nixon, I chose to vote for Pope John XXIII (a write-in protest vote). That was in a day when our elections were still transparent (or far moreso than today). It was a principled stance against the war. But I think now that it was a mistake. Because we had a bigger problem than the Vietnam war. We had the problem of the military-industrial establishment who had manufactured the war, for war profiteering purposes. And THAT was the problem that REALLY needed to be dealt with--a difficult, long term project. Humphrey was an old-fashioned midwestern populist, and an excellent candidate on social policy. I think we could have worked with him to start dismantling the offensive war machine that had never been demobilized after WW II. We had a good Democratic Party, at that point--which had just told LBJ to "get lost." He was denied a second term because of the war. And although the CIA had killed the best and most viable candidate for president (RFK), I don't think Humphrey had anything to do with that, and I think now that he was a fairly decent candidate, all in all, would have brought the war to a quicker conclusion, and might have been more amenable to true disarmament. Me, and a whole lot of other people--in utter revulsion at the war, and traumatized by all the assassinations (two that year, including RFK)--sat on our hands. Nixon got elected, in a very close election (1968). The war was escalated, and in the end, the country got all distracted with Nixon's dirty tricks.

The hard work of dismantling the war machine was never attempted--and, despite the lessons of Vietnam, the offensive war machine and all its attendant corporate war profiteers remained in place, posing a huge temptation to fascists--hence to the Bush junta.

I made my principled stance. I refused to vote for Humphrey--as did others. Did we thus lose the one chance we might have had to address the heart of the problem--at least to get the idea out there, right after that horrendous war, that offensive war machines are dangerous temptations and good only for manufacturing unjust war?

I think we did. I think we blew it. We toppled two presidents--LBJ and Nixon. And we maybe prevented Vietnam from getting nuked. But beyond that, we failed--miserably--and I think the critical mistake we made was in not backing the very liberal, populist Humphrey, and addressing the difficult task of disarmament while we still had a liberal government and a decent press corps, and while the memory of the Vietnam war horror was still fresh.

The war profiteers and fascist elements consolidated their power after that--and took over the media--and have now taken over the very mechanism of our vote. We have been thrown back in time, to serfdom and slavery. And we have to address that condition--the loss of our right to vote--before we can do anything else.

[marions ghost]

104. ELECTION REFORM is KEY to major changes...

"It will be hard to stay focused on the ONE THING that we MUST DO, to start restoring democracy in this country: transparent elections." :thumbsup:

Totally agree with you, Peace Patriot. Election Reform has to be the top priority. Greens and Dems both have a vested interest in bringing about a truly representative democracy in this country. We do not currently live in such a democracy. Until then you can debate all over the place, and it will all be moot when those who 'take care of the counting' have it THEIR way.

[oasis]

66. Why not just "go Green" now and avoid the stampede?

:eyes:

[The Backlash Cometh]

68. Nothing wrong with voting Green, as long as it doesn't compete

with a valid Dem candidate. But if I had to pick between a green who could win, or Ben Nelson, I'd pick the green.

[blm]

12. BS - No senator not on the committee is going to step outside protocol

when it's the Minority leader or a Judiciary member who leads filibusters on court nominations.

It may be legal to do so, but protocol reserves leading filibuster for the committee who heard the case. The senator who steps outside protocol on this would get relentlessly hammered for grandstanding, and piss off all the judiciary Dems.

[The Backlash Cometh]

19. I want a leader, not a follower.

[blm]

50. There is no filibuster WITHOUT 40 other senators. YOU want someone who

will give you a dog and pony show. Kerry already said he would support a flibuster. That's ALL he can do IF there aren't 40 other senators voting against cloture.

If you don't know that by now, then you're not a serious person concerned about a filibuster.

There ARE NO ONE-MAN SHOWS ANYMORE. The rules were changed and one can do nothing uless the other 40 are there for certain.

Tp pretend that truth doesn't exist tells me that dog and pony shows are your event of choice.

[The Backlash Cometh]

57. I'll accept the dog and pony show.

I'll even accept 40 Senators walking out of congress.

What I won't accept is laying down and playing dead.

[Warpy]

13. I've emailed my senator

and told him if he doesn't fight this with all he's got, he's lost my vote.

[LittleClarkie]

14. What ARE you talking about?

Biden voted no in committee. And the DLC doesn't even like Kerry, if they ever did.

Besides Kerry is probably going to fillibuster.

Wanna aim your ire at someone who isn't, like Nelson?

Sheesh.

[The Backlash Cometh]

21. Kerry filibusters and I'll campaign for him.

And believe me, this will be no small task for me.

[liveoaktx]

31. I will too.. .and I don't like the man much

but if he actually leads a fight against this, he has my time and money

[LittleClarkie]

32. Groovy. But I still say one vote for cloture isn't too impressive

if they don't get enough votes to fillibuster.

Hence, the reason I've been pushing Kerry's petition as well. More muscle to pressure his fellow Senators, doncha know. Chicken soup. Can't hurt. Might help.

[seabeyond]

36. 40 dems want to filibuster and they cant get that 1.... to make it 41

they want to filibuster really really bad. they are saying come on... one more

do we equally blame all the dems?

as a group, as a whole

dont vote any dem.

then the next repug can put in two or three more justices in

[The Backlash Cometh]

61. Once Alito's in, the Repubs will seal their power. They will be able

to interpret the laws any way they want to, and it will be impossible to do anything about it short of revolution.

[Caution]

15. yeh what a great idea. Let;'s just give the republicans 100% of the senat

good plan.

[The Backlash Cometh]

22. Senators aren't making good presidential candidates for the

Dems lately. I suspect that both Gore and Kerry are ready to shed their over-diplomatic style and pick up a more angry, common man style which will be more appealing to the public, but...we'll see.

[bigjohn16]

47. No we should just keep voting for spineless Dems...

... who can't even get together to filibuster Alito and help project the right to choose for 150 million women.

[The Backlash Cometh]

59. I say it's more productive to get rid of Dems like Lieberman and

Ben Nelson, than it is to support any Dem Senator for president.

Now that's a political grassroots project that I might support.

[we can do it]

17. Hey - Why Even Vote At All?

[B Calm]

20. I'll be watching Senator Bayh's vote with keen interest! I vow!

[The Backlash Cometh]

23. I don't think I have the stomach to get disappointed again.

[Armstead]

24. Not me -- I'm not into cutting off my nose to spite my face

[mmonk]

25. I may not even vote at all.

I really am searching for an answer to "what's the use?". I'm probably going into survival mode. I'm going to check things out like different countries. I'm going to check out if states rights mean my disabled son can have protected rights from these justices and their interpretations. It's going to be an interesting journey.

[cynatnite]

26. I'd still vote dem...

anything to get those fucking repukes out. I hate the Dems not filibustering Alito. It pisses me off and I've fired off some emails over it, but my vote will go to the dems because I want the repukes out so bad.

[WI_DEM]

27. Well, both of mine are voting "NO" and I think Feingold would

support a Filibuster, but I'm not sure what Kohl would do--I'll have to wait and see.

[stray cat]

28. No Way - Fillibuster on Alito is not my litmus test

Fighting a battle that can't be won - who did America think they would get if they put repubs in power in all branches of government. McCain is sadly right - elections count. I think we better make sure we get the repubs out of power if we want anything to change

[Freddie Stubbs]

29. I've heard the same threat before...

Such as with the bankruptcy bill vote. Guess what? Robert Byrd voted for the bill, and then a few weeks later MoveOn.org did a fundraiser for him.

[longship]

30. Well, if the votes aren't their to prevent cloture...

Then they aren't there. If the filibuster doesn't happen we may never know who was for it or against it.

[The Backlash Cometh]

38. There are more than 40 Democrats and moderates in the Senate.

It can be done. You get them to come out on the record and those who are in sensitive districts will decide if they will vote "No" or find private sector jobs after November.

[EFerrari]

41. I will not vote against a Dem who stands up.

And I will not vote for one who doesn't stand up

[Jeanette in FL]

52. for the times they are a changing

Come senators, congressmen
Please heed the call
Don't stand in the doorway
Don't block up the hall
For he that gets hurt
Will be he who has stalled
There's a battle outside
And it is ragin'.
It'll soon shake your windows
And rattle your walls
For the times they are a-changin'.

[Dinger]

42. I Am. This Is ALL Or Nothing, Period. (nt)

[KnowerOfLogic]

44. I won't vote for any war supporters. nt

[Peace Patriot]

48. I think these are noble fights that are taking place in the Senate and

House, mostly appointment fights in the Senate. I've been very engaged in them all, particulary on Gonzales and Rice. I would caution against, a) getting down about it, when we inevitably lose, suffering depression, feelings of hopelessness and disempowerment; and b) failing to see the reality of an illegitimately elected Congress and President, with rightwing Bushite corporations controlling the vote count based on 'trade secret,' proprietary programming code and virtually no audit/recount controls (more than half of Congress was elected this way, with no transparency--in addition to all the normal corporate/war profiteer and other corruption in our elections).

What do you expect to have--with Bushites counting all the votes inside a secret black box--except a fascist President and a rubber stamp Congress?

The conditions for democracy--and for good government policy--are not present. Few of these people are beholden to the country, or to the will of the majority.

So every battle--even losing ones--is a victory! A victory over fear, a victory over corruption, a victory for democracy. Even if only one stands up--as with Barbara Boxer backing the House Black Caucus challenge of the Ohio electors--it is a victory for democracy.

I think it's Quixotic to make these statements--I won't back this person, or that person, if they don't filibuster Alito. Your backing doesn't count for much, without the right to vote. You can threaten it, rhetorically. I'm not against that, especially if you direct it AT the politician. And it's true that candidates need SOME support to even get into an election that Diebold and ES&S will decide. So our support is not meaningless. But it is very nearly so. (Why do you think we have Bush's war, when 60% of the American people have been against it from the very beginning--from before the invasion?) (The first big boondoggle push for Bushite-controlled electronic voting affected many of the 2002 elections, most notably Max Cleland's loss in Georgia. The Senate would have had a quite different coloration, after the Iraq war vote (and before the invasion), if it hadn't been for Diebold and ES&S elections--and also Paul Wellstone's plane crash. It would have been much more focused on preventing the invasion, and on controlling war funds.)

There is much we can do, ONCE WE RESTORE OUR RIGHT TO VOTE--to undo the horrors of this fascist junta, including impeaching every one their criminal appointments to the Supreme Court. We can't undo all the murders--tens of thousands of innocent Iraqis slaughtered, thousands of soldiers killed and many thousands permanently wounded. But we can undo everything else. We are the sovereign people of the United States. The mechanism of our sovereignty--how we exercise it--our right to vote, has been taken away. Once we get it back--which we MUST do--then we can do ANYTHING that we, as a people, think wise and in our interests, including amending the Constitution if we have to. But that basic right--our right to vote--has to be retrieved, while we are still able to retrieve it. I think we have a window of opportunity of several years. And I think we had better get the hell busy on it, as some are already doing.

Throw Diebold and ES&S election theft machines into 'Boston Harbor' NOW!

[KalicoKitty]

49. Not me!

I will never vote for a Republican. Before Bush stole office, I didn't feel quite this strong, but no way, Hozay!

:yoiks:

[hatrack]

51. Hah! If I had any Dem Senators, I'd sure think about it!

:toast:

[cantstandbush]

55. Me. n/t

[depakid]

58. I'm going to do more than that

I'm going to support (give money and write LTTE's that their hometown papers will print) for whoever opposes them- even is it has to be in the general election.

I plan to do that to every single one of them. Period. End of story.

The party will NEVER regain power so long as it has senators who lack any integrity, vote with the far right and legitimize and enable Republican policies.

[The Backlash Cometh]

62. I think we do need a grassroots organization to start taking out the

bad Dems. Instead of giving $$$ to the DNC, we should give money to any organization who convinces us they're committed to this cause.

[depakid]

67. Agreed.

I'll also support (and have supported) DFA and progressive candidates.

It's not just a negative thing with me- but I recognize that there are 2 sides of the equation.

That's the only way to regain some accountability- and rise up at least to relevancy again.

[bdot]

63. So are you planning on voting Republican?

[The Backlash Cometh]

64. It's not my vote that's at risk.

It's my $$$ and my campaign assistance.

[Perky]

69. What a moronic notion

They will not have any primary opposition. Which means you will siton yourhands in the general...I guess that means you would rather have another repuk who votes you way 10% of the time than a democrat who votes your way 85% of the time..

I swear some of you folks would rather protest than govern.

These guys and ladies know what they are doing. The filibuster can't be sustained. There are other battles to be fought...This is not the most important vote of the last half century....Not hardly.....

[The Backlash Cometh]

72. No, they don't know what they're doing. They really don.t.

They're too preened, too studied, too careful, too elite to represent 300,000,000 people. The right-wing has their monster trucks, we're just a little more high-browed, but we're perfectly happy to see Wrestle-mania on the legislative floor.

We want to know that they're not afraid to get roughed up a bit.

[calico1]

78. Thank you.

A voice of reason! Finally! Good god. We aren't in the majority but some people demand that Democrats produce majority results or they won't vote for another Democrat. Isn't that just great. Yeah. Let's not vote or vote for someone who can't possibly win and by doing so split the vote and allow the Repukes to stay in power. I am not by any means pleased with everything the Democrats are doing. But wouldn't it be a better idea to challenge them when they ARE in power and the GOP is the minority? But no, that wouldn't be smart would it? Let's not vote for any Democrat or stay home or vote for that third party candidate and screw ourselves royallty.

[RB TexLa]

70. Right, I vote in Louisiana, I'm supposed to help elect someone like Woody

Jenkins to the US Senate by not voting for Mary because she didn't filibuster?

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[The Backlash Cometh]

73. Mary Landrieu turned her back on the DLC and got elected.

I'll give her a pass on this one.

[napi21]

71. NOPE! I won't take that vow.

It's more important to me to win back the majority than to play games on who is a good or bad dem.

Once we get a solid majority, then we can start refining the group, but NOW, the most important thing is to get the majority, by whatever means ans people necessary!

[The Backlash Cometh]

74. I think of Lieberman back when we still had a majority.

The son of a bitch had the votes to subpoena Cheney and decided to wait for the following election when he expected even more troops. We waited, and we lost it all.

What I'm saying is, what the hell does a majority give you, when you have wimps like Lieberman, Ben Nelson, Daschle...those kinds of guys who have proven that they don't know how to fight?

[skipos]

75. HELL NO. Our minority status is causing these problems

I am not going to make it worse by following the Nader 2000 plan.

[The Backlash Cometh]

83. We're not voting for president.

We are looking for someone to show us how to lead against all odds. You find that leader, I'll tell you who's going to be president next election.

[cmd]

76. Why would I be so foolish?

I'm not ready to cede the government to the Republicans.

[The Backlash Cometh]

84. Oh, oops. Too late!

[cmd]

86. And your solution is?

Don't you think you will need more than one vote?

[The Backlash Cometh]

89. Maybe you have to be a member of a minority to understand.

Sometimes, you're just not meant to win. Then someone out of frustration or passion will pick up a stone and throw it against the well-armed army, and suddenly, you look back and see that there are more of you than there are of them. But until you throw that first futile rock, you never really know for sure.

[cmd]

90. Keep throwing

Pretty soon you'll have a wall built around yourself.

[The Backlash Cometh]

92. Not unless you're running in circles around me, sweetheart.

Stand still you oily bugger!

You really don't get it. I'm not interested in politicians with well-manicured fingernails, and neither do most Americans.

[cmd]

97. cmd stands for coal miners daughter

I understand dirt that doesn't wash off very well. I come from a family of underground miners. Through them, I've learned the value of a union. I've walked picket lines, been on strike, put my job on the line for my beliefs. Keep building that wall. You are going to need it.

[The Backlash Cometh]

98. Personally, I would opt for guerrilla warfare.

I come from the tropics.

[Nye Bevan]

79. Not me

We need to focus on electing a Democratic senate in November. This would be an *enormous* achievement, effectively neutralizing chimpy for his last 2 years and putting a stop to Roberts/Alito-style SC appointments, should (god forbid) Stevens or another justice die or retire.

With the repukes mired in scandal there is a real chance that 2006 could be our 1994. Feel free to huff and puff about not voting for this guy or that guy-- but when November comes, pull the Dem lever.

[leeroysphitz]

85. I'll vote NO in any primary.... n/t

[LSK]

88. MOTHER FUCKING HELL NO

Such STUPID FUCKING VOWS are just giving votes to REPUBLICANS.

IF THERES A PRIMARY, FIGHT THERE.

IN THE GENERAL ELECTION WE NEED EVERY DAMN DEMOCRATIC VOTE. NO FUCKING DEBATE.

[Bucky]

96. Yes, but how do you really feel? Now, don't hold back...

hee hee

[Walt Starr]

91. My vow goes further than that n/t

[wildwww2]

94. Bill Nelson of Florida has said he will vote no. So I hope he would

support a filibuster. I e-mailed Martinez but I am sure it will do no good. He is a fascist through and through.
Peace
Wildman
Al Gore is My President

[The Backlash Cometh]

100. Bill Nelson is the kind of conservative Dem I like.

He has stealth principles that are strong in civil rights issues.

[OKthatsIT]

101. Lucky me, Kerry and Kennedy are my Senators!!!!

[Clarkansas]

102. No.

[boston bean]

103. yep! nt

[SW FL Dem]

110. Not me - In my case that would help Cruella and I refuse to do that n/t

[Demi_Babe]

111. I vow to vote as a democrat for the rest of my life