This email from my sister tops them all!

[peace13]

I don't know how to respond to the email below. My sister seems to have gone off the deep end. I have been receiving religious emails from her for some time but have not commented about them. I read them and try to learn about her perspective on life. After the torture bill was passed two weeks ago I decided that if she was going to send me her propaganda I would share some information about the current state of our country and its Constitution. The following is her response to me. Thanks for listening. Peace on earth, Kim

Dear Kim-

Below is an excerpt from a book that I sent home with Mom. It articulates the
source of my "concern" for you.

Love,
Lisa


The name of the book is Beth Moore Praying God's Word.

What is a Stronghold?

A stronghold is anything that exhausts itself in our minds, "pretending" to be
bigger or more powerful than our God. It steals much of our focus and causes us to
feel overpowered. Controlled. Mastered. Whether the stronghold is an addiction,
unforgiveness toward a person who has hurt us, or despair over a loss, it is
something that consumes so much of our emotional and mental energy that abundant
life is strangled--our callings remain largely unfulfilled and our believing lives
are virtually ineffective. Needless to say, these are the enemy's precise goals.

Where is the Battlefield?

In any warfare waged by the enemy against the individual believer, the primary
battlefield is the mind. The goal of our warfare as stated in 2 Corinthians 10:15
is to steal back our thought life and take it captive to Christ instead. The
enemy's chief target is the mind because the most effective way to influence
behavior is to influence thinking. Our minds are the control centers of our entire
beings. The enemy knows far better than we do that nothing is bigger or more
powerful than God. That's why everything that "exalts itself" in our thought life
is called a "pretension." Satan plays make-believe. He can only pretend because he
lost all rights to presume authority over the believer's life when Christ, "having
disarmed the powers and authorities,...made a public spectacle of them, triumphing
over them by the cross.(Col.2:15). .....Unfortunately, Satan is very good at his
job because he's had so much experience. He plays make believe and does a
remarkable job of trying to make us believe it. Repeat after me: nothing is bigger
or more powerful than God! Absolutely nothing! Not even the strongest addiction or
overwhelming feeling of rage. One of the purposes of this book is to help you
downsize anything that has a hold on you until you have, in effect, commanded it to
bend the knee to the authority of Christ. Is this really possible?

The Book again is: Beth Moore Praying God's Word

[mohinoaklawnillinois]

1. Good Luck peace13. Sounds like she drinking the Kool-Aid.. n/t

[peace13]

6. Deep dark kool aid!

I used to sign off Peace and then I was informed that the only peace that counts is peace in 'heaven' so now I sign off...peace on earth to make the point that I am not willing to wait! In all seriousness she was relatively normal until about a year ago. My dad was terminally ill and I guess that she went over the edge somehow. It is sad. My family is shrinking! Peace on earth, kim

[Swede]

2. What's that got to do with torture?

This Beth for or against it? :shrug:

[silverojo]

32. You ought to ask her one simple question

"Yes or no (one-word answer ONLY, please): Do you think torture is wrong?"

I'd love to hear that answer.

[leesa]

55. Maybe it's a FORM of torture?

[Mz Pip]

3. If you've got

600,000 dead it's more than the mind that's being killed. This isn't playing make believe. It's the real thing.

Other than that, there isn't much else I can say about this gibberish. God does not micro manage the universe, or even this planet. We have been given all that we need to make this place work. Blaming Satan for our failures is a cop out.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[Erika]

4. and? n/t

[Maraya1969]

5. How about: "It seems like God is saying to you to stop thinking that

you are better than me."

Or: "Teach not that your brother is something other than he should be" Jesus

[peace13]

12. I have told her that I do not judge her

and that it sounds like she is judging when she imposes her ideals on me. There is no getting through to her. It seems a shame to stop communicating with her because of this but I am tired of being made to feel that my ideas are not imortant.

[Horse with no Name]

7. Not sure what she is trying to convey

Best guess is that she is saying that you are letting politics interfere with your relationship with God (?)
However, you can turn it back and quote this scripture. Nowhere will you find anything about torture.
1 Corinthians 13
1If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels, but have not love, I am only a resounding gong or a clanging cymbal. 2If I have the gift of prophecy and can fathom all mysteries and all knowledge, and if I have a faith that can move mountains, but have not love, I am nothing. 3If I give all I possess to the poor and surrender my body to the flames, but have not love, I gain nothing.

4Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

8Love never fails. But where there are prophecies, they will cease; where there are tongues, they will be stilled; where there is knowledge, it will pass away. 9For we know in part and we prophesy in part, 10but when perfection comes, the imperfect disappears. 11When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me. 12Now we see but a poor reflection as in a mirror; then we shall see face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall know fully, even as I am fully known.

13And now these three remain: faith, hope and love. But the greatest of these is love.

[tblue]

8. It sounds kinda cult-y. I can't even understand what she's trying to say.

"A stronghold is anything that exhausts itself in our minds..." — WTF is that? The first sentence and she lost me already.

Don't even try to argue. Just smile and say "uh huh..." Better yet, sometimes no response is the best response. There's no talking logic to some people. She has no interest in your view of current events and she will only interpret them according to her strict (and a little skewed) perspective. Keep the dialog going only if you don't mind being put in your place over and over again because SHE knows what God wants better than you do, I guess.

[Webster Green]

9. I notice there are words there, and they seem to form sentences..

..but none of it makes any sense.

I think these folks are afflicted with some sort of mass psychosis.

Seriously, I have some in my family too. They are fucking nuts!

[midnight]

10. Sounds like your sister does not think that this bill is against

humanity or against Gods beliefs. I don't know what your beliefs are but my God is against this torture bill. The christians that I know are silent about this horror going on. It's almost as if their silence condones this anti-christian behavior.

[SharonAnn]

11. This quote from John Dean pretty well sums it up.

From another thread on DU

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2391379#2391555

"She's exactly the kind of "conservative" that John Dean talks about in his last book, 'Conservatives without Conscience". Authoritarians who have an amazing capacity to just set aside their conscience and who feel absolved of their wrongdoing by what they take to be their religion. She should have been on that cover, too."

[pacalo]

22. That's an excellent quote. I'm a big fan of John Dean's.

[ComerPerro]

43. I despise him

lets not forget that part of his effort to trash the supposed "neo-Cons" is to equate their disastrous policies with liberalism, and to ultimately push Conservatism as though it were something noble, sacred and pure (which it is not)

[pacalo]

54. Can you please provide me with some quotes of his that would lead

you to have this perception? I've read four books authored by him, I'm a regular reader of his findlaw.com articles, and I've never gotten the impression that he would equate neo-cons' policies with liberalism, not even through an insinuation of any kind.

If you could direct me to something he's written or said that would enlighten me, please do.

[peace13]

48. Thanks for this

I saw Dean talking about this on TV. I have ordered the book from my local bookstore. After I read it I will pass it on to my sister. Peace on earth, Kim

[Toucano]

13. How to respond.

"Lick my ass, idiot"!


Sorry, I can't help myself tonight. My BS tolerance is ZERO

[peace13]

16. LOL!

[cmd]

14. Visit this website to get some response ideas

No all is as Beth Moore sees it.


http://www.sliceoflaodicea.com/archives/2006/03/beth_moores_bel.php

[peace13]

17. Thanks for this! n/t

[peace13]

15. Thanks for listening and sharing

I have kept silent with her and in a weak moment gave in. It is hard to accept how crazy the world and the people in it have become. Thanks. Peace to you and yours today and always, Kim

[Lexingtonian]

18. the belief advocated is a traditional heresy

There are a couple of ways of looking at the defect in this teaching. There's a lot of the Christianized occultism of the 'Christian Right' to it, that's probably the worst part.

In a strict theological sense, the teaching is (beyond the demonism component) essentially a Quietistic one. The denial that good works, i.e. the strivings for mercy and justice in the world, are of any use or merit is definitely contrary to the Bible.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quietism_%28Christian_philosophy%29

The RCC view on quietisms-
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/12608c.htm

[pacalo]

19. The religious leaders who serve as talking heads for the 'pugs

have been bought for their followers' votes, & this book's author is one of their robots serving their interests. From the book's passages provided, it would seem this "Christian" author is rationalizing on behalf of the WH that those who don't go along with its program are shunning God & are being led by Satan because we are consumed with the fact that this country's moral values are being flushed down the toilet!

Here are some articles that will be helpful to you in responding to her:

Common Dreams: No Longer a Christian

Republicans: The Anti-Christian, Christian Party

[aquart]

20. Mathew 25:35-46

35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in,
36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink?
38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you?
39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels.
42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink,
43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'
46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

[peace13]

24. It seems so simple.

I say..I'm not Christian but act like one is supposed to. Then 'true believers' can turn their backs on mankind and feel that they are mightier in some way. It makes no sense!

[sfwriter]

28. They'd just read Mathew 25:41 and leave it at that. :-)

[aquart]

40. Then according to Jesus they will burn in Hell. Oh, well.

[Marnieworld]

51. I'm a Christ-loving Agnostic

These words are so beautiful and very very liberal. If we can somehow explain to the evangelicals that liberalism is the "way" then imagine what good we can do as a society?

'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

Why, why, oh why does this not apply to Katrina and Iraq and everyone else suffering at the hands of these so-called "Compassionate Conservatives"?

Damn this shit pisses me off!

[RagAss]

21. and Santa?....what about Santa?...

[jobycom]

23. Sounds like Bush is Satan in that formula

Bush is convincing "Christians" to exalt his words over those of Jesus, and over what their hearts--which were created by God--are telling them is right. Satan Bush is convincing many to do what they would otherwise know in their souls is wrong. Religion can be a "stronghold" that comes between a believer and God.

Just my take. I'm not a believer, though.

[peace13]

26. I hear that!

'Sounds like Bush is Satan in that formula'...he sounds like Satan in most of my formulas as well! LOL, Kim

[Erika]

27. manna helps alot with their interpretation.

Something they have in common with W, but not Jesus.

[jumpoffdaplanet]

25. Ask her, "Who would Jesus Torture?"

And if she answers with a name or a people, it's time to write her off.

[peace13]

29. I love that question

I know that I can never crack the fundie candy coating. She is aggressive in wanting to levy the 'word' onto me. I just wish that I could have a relationship with her but it seems that until she softens, this will not be possible. Time will tell, just hope we have that. Peace, Kim

[orleans]

30. well, i don't know what *you* should do, but this is what cold hearted

bitchy me would do:

send her a copy of this new book: tempting faith
(about how the gop played all these people for suckers)

and i would enclose a note:

"dear sis,
fuck off with your religious shit. talk to me when you get deprogrammed."

anyway--that's what i would do. i'd make it clear that it was no longer tolerable.

[Robeson]

31. Sorry you're dealing with this. She sounds like a Moonie....

...I really don't think you're going to be able to get through to her, without her being professionally deprogrammed.

[poverlay]

33. Good luck with that. If you want to stay on good terms you'll have to

respect her beliefs as best you can. I know, my sister went through the same thing. I basically had to write her off for awhile. I got a t shirt that said: "I finally found Jesus... He was behind the couch the whole time!"...

That didn't help so much.
I still laugh every time I see it though.

[mykpart]

34. You probably shouldn't do this, but

I am tempted to tell people like this that the Lord spoke to my heart and told me that He is unhappy with those who pretend to speak for Him while they have evil in their hearts. Or anything else that I want to say to them. Tell them that God "put upon my heart" to say this or that to them. I would love to see the response.

[Sherman A1]

35. I tell folks privately that I really don't want

inspirational emails (and I think this falls into that category) a GOOD joke is fine, but don't clog my email box with nonsense of any kind. You can probably tell what she is sending from the subject line - hit delete and say nothing. If she wants to "save" you that is her business. I wouldn't even acknowledge that you have seen the email or received it. Like it never happened and I wouldn't bother to send her anything of how you feel about the scandals or other events.

[Rockstone]

36. What she is saying is

any thing that turns you away from the war on terror is just the devil trying to "trick" you away from Jesus. So being absorbed about politics, the war and torture - that's the "stronghold" that's pulling you away from god.

[never cry wolf]

37. Don't forget the beautitudes

Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 3)
Blessed are the meek: for they shall posses the land. (Verse 4)
Blessed are they who mourn: for they shall be comforted. (Verse 5)
Blessed are they that hunger and thirst after justice: for they shall have their fill. (Verse 6)
Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy. (Verse 7)
Blessed are the clean of heart: for they shall see God. (Verse 8)
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God. (Verse 9)
Blessed are they that suffer persecution for justice' sake, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven. (Verse 10)


The "right" chokes on the beatitudes

[SheWhoMustBeObeyed]

38. Know what works? Non sequitur

Dear Sis,

"I have been reading, too, and I wanted to share this with you:"

Now you can add a passage from any book you like. The Joy of Cooking. The Joy of Sex. Alice in Wonderland. Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas.

I would tend to go with excerpts from a 1930s high school home economics textbook (my mom had one, it was so funky), or a book on electrical engineering.

If you want to be very pointed, you can hunt down the juiciest passages from Tempted By Faith.

Good luck!

[oldcoot]

39. Did she understand your email?

Is she politically uninformed? Perhaps she did not understand your email and, instead of asking you for clarification or ignoring your email, decided to send you this email about a Christian self-help book. She may have been hoping that you would be so impressed with her email, you would not notice that she had not commented on your email.

Your best bet is to ask her politely to stop sending you propaganda and to tell her that you will stop sending her political email. Tell that if you receive any more remotely religious emails, you will immediately delete them without reading them and then do it. Hopefully, she will realize that she has done more to antagonize you instead of converting you to her belief system.

[peace13]

44. I sent her the link to a video at youtube.com

regarding the documentary Official Dictatorship in America. It talks about the run up to the Iraq war. No words to read! I wonder how many Americans are out there like her, educated and intelligent yet ignorant of what is happening in our name. She has told me that she does not believe any news or media. "Everyone lies". It is so sad to lose a family member like this. What a waste.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAUDYCd2Sbw&NR

[ComerPerro]

41. Then tell her to get off the internet, turn of the TV, and stay the fuck

out of politics.

After all, these are just strongholds that take our focus off of God and Jesus.

No true Christian should be concerned with worldly matters, right?

[malaise]

42. Tell her to see a shrink

and get a life :D

[peace13]

46. I think that would be her response to me or

I should give it up to the lord. In her mind I am foolish to think that I can bring change. I am not going to take this sitting down. We have to try and create Peace on earth not wait around to be scooped up by the UFO to glory! If this is our one shot we have to make the most of it!

[Vinca]

45. You make me thankful my only living relatives are an agnostic

and a Buddhist Jew (don't ask).

[Nimrod2005]

47. Sorry you have to put up with this stuff...I only read the first sentence

That's all my little mind could handle...

I am simply too young for this kind of stuff.

[peace13]

49. Thanks for making me smile!

[Marnieworld]

50. If I knew what she was responding to I'd have a better idea what she was

trying to say. Yet it seems as if she is saying, "Don't think about anything but Jesus. Get all that war talk, political obsession, torture concern out of your pretty little head. It's just Satan distracting you" ? Is that what happened? You sent her something more or less saying "is this policy Christlike?" And she responded with "You are caught in Satan's trap"? If that's the case, then you have a sister but you don't have a friend, a kindred spirit, which is sad and disappointing but not a complete loss. If her thinking is like this, if she choose no thought beyond love for Christ and it's her response to any issue then she can't be reached. Love her of course, realize this is what comforts her and how she handles life and give up trying to reach her. You of course are entitled to the same respect and it probably is time that you forcefully insist that she stop trying to change you. Personally, I can never follow this thinking. I don't even understand the basic beliefs and phrases of fundamentalism. I am familiar with the story of Christ but this description of reality (Satan actively intervening, the victory of being crucified) I haven't ever been able to follow.

My brother is a political kool-aid drinker. Big Fox watcher, believes the Repub lies completely. The last time he visited me, he expressed annoyance that it is even reported when Iraqis die, that only when an American dies it should be counted and reported. That the war just seems worse than it is because of these numbers reported. He didn't say the phrase "Liberal media" but I can tell that that is who was to blame and rage at. And he supports the war in Iraq. He gets very angry and emotional when he talks about it and I just let him. I was shocked when he said this. It hurt my brain to process the logic. He supports a war which is supposedly this great humanitarian mission to bring democracy to a people and free them from an evil dictator. Benevolence at the end of a gun. Yet if they die? Fuck them. They don't deserve to be counted let alone mentioned. Absurd, but if I pointed it out our rare visit would have descended into angry yelling and I doubt we would have recovered. Although I spend countless hours on DU and I am beyond informed I actually pretend ignorance and lack of interest in politics and change the subject. He has a lot to learn but it is not my job to teach him. Life does that. I really believe this rigid, non-critical independent thinking is a coping mechanism for people, their very stability depends on it. As family we have different rules, you can drop a friend but yo are family for life. It's all about acceptance and reaching for peace and love beyond our differences. Your sister needs to get this about you as you clearly have this approach to her. What makes it harder is that she obviously thinks she must spread the message as a matter of her faith. Pretty tough situation there and I only wish you the best.

Peace
:hug:

[peace13]

52. Thank you for your insight!

This is the email I sent her. Peace, Kim

Lisa,
This is a pretty powerful piece. Just wanted to share it with you. What
kind of world are we leaving the young people? Peace, Kim

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IAUDYCd2Sbw&NR

[mnhtnbb]

53. It's very difficult to respond to anyone who has "The Answer"--

God--because "The Answer" is unknowable. That leaves individual impressions of God, which explains why there are so many different opinions of what God wants. Why else are there so many different organized religions among Christians, let alone entirely different religions which see God differently than does Christianity.

The problem, though, is that you can't have a logical discussion
with the folks who want you to "bend the knee to the authority of Christ".
Because you have to ask the question, as interpreted by whom? Christ isn't here to tell any of us directly, which leaves the stories told about him left to interpretation--and that's if you accept his authority in the first place.

Personally, I think you have to decide whether to tell your sister
to just back off if she wants to keep a relationship with you. Is this a phase with her? Has she been going down this religious path for some time? Or is there some hope that she might come to her senses and realize she's being brainwashed?

Good luck to you.

On edit: P.S. You could always be a smartass and tell her that you'll
"let go and let God" if she will. She's the one who's trying to force you, and maybe God doesn't have it in his plan for her to know God's timing for you.