Have the "Christians" gone too far?

[Strathos]

I'm not talking about the real ones, the ones who are all about love and light, I'm talking about the radicals. People like Falwell and his followers and those that think a theocracy is the best thing for America?

I just think it has escalated so far that the only way back to a somewhat tolerant society is to do away with fundamentalist, no, not kill them, but somehow direct them to a less violent, more peaceful existence with us "sinners". Maybe start taxing the churches who demand political favors and encourage their sheeple to vote a certain way.

I honestly think if you want to worship, you should do it and shut up about it. This "spreading the word" bullshit is something that was started to keep money coming in the church and that should be illegal.

What do you think?

[leftofthedial]

1. I think religion is a con game

and should be outlawed.

[bryant69]

14. My initial response

"I think Atheism leads people to hell and should be outlawed."

But that's not actually what i think, so let it go. I'll fight for the rights of people to think and worship (or not worship) as they choose, and you fight to elminate thoughts and beliefs you don't like. It will all come out in the wash eventually.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[leftofthedial]

38. I don't advocate eliminating thoughts and beliefs

I advocate eliminating criminal business enterprises that victimize the gullible

[bryant69]

46. Ah.

Well good luck with that - have you ever considered the possibility that you might have a simplistic view of religion?

Bryant

[leftofthedial]

47. have you?

[bryant69]

48. Of course - self questioning is an important part of life

It's important not to become complacent in one's beliefs. Or at least I find it important.

Bryant

[leftofthedial]

49. good!

:thumbsup:

[bryant69]

51. I think it's funny how atheists basically assume all

Christians (or believers of any stripe) have never thought their beliefs through.

Bryant

[Zhade]

61. I think it's funny how you assume all atheists assume that.

NT!

[bryant69]

64. Oh I don't assume all atheists do

I assume that jerkass atheists assume that - but jerkass atheists are a very small subset of all atheists.

They are the equivelent of evangelicals of any strip who tell you that because you failed to listen to their message you are going to hell.

Bryant

[malaise]

21. The Soviets got that right n/t

[Lusted4]

36. I remember my christian friends at their Church's would get together

and fire pastors when they would get to political. They would just find another and replace the old.
When did it change? When did the paid help get the power to make all the decisions?

[jokerman93]

56. I disagree

Religion should never be outlawed - just taxed and regulated - like any other form of prostitution.

J

[kiahzero]

58. Too bad about that pesky First Amendment, right?

"Everybody's wrong but me and the people that agree with me!"

Where have I heard that before? :think:

[bryant69]

2. Well i think in a sane society

The extremists should be minimalized.

But the last paragraph i don't agree with your assessment. Spreading the word is a commandment in the bible, and it is the charitable thing to do. If you know the truth you should want to share it; I toally agree that forcing your beliefs on others in an aggressive confrontational way is wrong. But there are ways to share them without attacking other people.

It's also to bear in mind that most people who do the spreading of the gospel get no more money out of it than Atheists do for expressing their opinion on the "truth" about religion.

Bryant
Check it out --> http://politicalcomment.blogspot.com

[Zhade]

62. Of course, you mean "if you THINK you know the truth".

NT!

[jschurchin]

3. I think the intolerance of the.................

CCC and radical Islam is the same. No other religion but "ours" and advocate genocide to non-believers.

[SidDithers]

4. I think that if Falwell, Dobson, Robertson and the rest...

are following what they believe to be Christ's teachings, then they've got just as much right to call themselves Christians as anyone does.

They could probably apply the "not a true Christian" description to progessive, liberal Christians, and feel just as correct as you do.

Sid

[pocoloco]

8. Don't think so...

"Don't tell me you are a Christian, let me figure it out on my own" Eleanor Roosevelt

[SidDithers]

30. Judge not, lest ye be judged...nt

Sid

[Poppyseedman]

5. but somehow direct them to a less violent, more peaceful existence with us

Please point out the circumstances where fundie christians have been violent, except for one nut job blowing up a abortion clinic years ago.

I can't think of one violent act. BTW, that nut job was denounced by the fundies

[Strathos]

7. oppressing gays, labeling them abominations

is to me, violent, or at least leads to violence. The nasty speak leads to nasty ideals, which lead to acts of violence against gay or anyone that's different.

The fundies are wrong to tell others who's right and who's wrong.

[Poppyseedman]

11. Words mean things to me

labeling people is wrong, but it is not a violent act.

Telling people what's right and wrong is not a exclusive fundie characteristic.

[nebenaube]

20. you forget the sniper that shot docs.... n/t

[photogirl12]

6. The way I see it

Is that the radical Christians are only out to make a buck. Think Jim and Tammie Faye Bakker. Think of all of the money that they got from people who thought that they were doing the right thing. These radical Christians are giving the (for lack of better terminology) normal Christians a bad name. The normal ones pretty much keep to themselves, are usually out to do good and make the world a better place, and don't walk the streets trying to convert you and tell you that your God is the wrong God. I see them all of the time in my area. They walk the streets with their pamphlets trying to convert people.

[Perky]

9. You seem as intolerant of evangelicals as you assume they are of you.

"I honestly think if you want to worship, you should do it and shut up about it. This "spreading the word" bullshit is something that was started to keep money coming in the church and that should be illegal."

You sem to be saying that evangelism as opposed to fundamentalism ought to be illegal.

IS that what you are saying?

[leftofthedial]

12. It all ought to be illegal

and its victims should be given treatment

[Perky]

16. So much forthe First Amendment.

[leftofthedial]

19. yeah

just like issues such as women's sufferage and slavery, the founding fathers weren't perfect.

[Critters2]

40. Churches were at the fore on abolition

And the civil rights movement, among others. I'm glad they didn't STFU.

[leftofthedial]

45. *People* ended slavery, implemented women's suffrage

and fought for civil rights. Some leaders, such as MLK, were preachers. Churches at the time were the most common groups/institutions where people could meet, plan, organize, etc. Today, we have the Internet and many politically active organizations. Today, churches are at the forefront of social change as well: the intelligent design movement, the anti-choice movement, the let's-convert-the-US-into-a-theocracy movement, the kill-all-muslims movement, the let's-prosyletize-everyone-we-encounter-to-the-point-they-begin-to-vomit movement, the let's-neuter-science movement; the anti-stem cell research movement, the let's scam gullible fools out of loads of money and it's tax free movement, the let's keep fascists in power movement . . . real social activists.

Religion cyclically and inevitably degenerates into radical fundamentalism that civilization can no longer sustain. Here in the real world, we have real problems to solve. Imaginary friends can't help us.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

27. No thought or belief should EVER be illegal

no matter how perverse or idiotic it may seem. Outlawing any belief or ideology is the essence of totalitarianism, and I'm frankly surprised that any calling him/herself liberal would think that way. Even though you, too, are entitled to your belief. Fortunately for all of us the Constitution protects you and the fundies equally.

[leftofthedial]

33. religion isn't an idea

it's a business

[onenote]

55. so are all tax exempt organizations

should we make them all illegal?

[kestrel91316]

22. Well, Jesus DID command his followers to pray silently and

alone, in a CLOSET. I suspect he thought that public demonstrations of piety were slightly tacky, to say the least.

[Perky]

23. Go back and read the Book of Acts.

Jesus had no problem with praying public. he had problems with false piety however.

[Bluebear]

29. So Jesus was a flip flopper on that issue?

:)

[Perky]

37. Absolutely not.

He prayed for people in the steets all the time anf they got healed.


There is a difference between praying on the steet corner in order to be seen. and prayiong on the street corner to heal the sick

[kestrel91316]

32. Sorry. I only read the red letter parts.

I happen to think Paul was an a--, BTW.

[Critters2]

41. No one here has mentioned Paul. nt

[LiberalArkie]

10. I am in favor of retraining the members. I think they should be

required to read (for themselves) the New Testament books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and especially John. They should be required to learn about the person called Jesus and what he wanted people who followed him to be like.

[woo me with science]

59. hey yeah...let's put them in CAMPS to do it! nt

[TahitiNut]

13. Evangelism, prosetylization, and fundamentalism.

Few would argue that a Quaker isn't a fundamentalist. At the same time, Quakers do NOT prosetylize - they "bear witness." Quakers do NOT regard their belief system as the ONLY path - and acknowledge a pluralistic faith community. On the other hand, Roman Catholics prosetylize without evangelism. Prosetylization is when someone believes that you must practice their belief system. It is the process of the teacher trying to make the prospective student into a carbon copy of themselves.

[Critters2]

42. Some Quakers. There are Evaangelical Quakers who do believe

theirs is the only path. And there are Roman Catholics who see the truth in other faiths--like Thomas Merton.

[Toots]

15. Maybe not far enough......

There are still many who believe them. I think they should keep it up until even the most retarded can finally see who and what they are. They certainly are not followers of Jesus...

[Generic Other]

17. I heard some GOP flack on tv last night complaining that the religious

right didn't pull their weight, merely complaining loudly and expecting to be catered to, but didn't get out and doorbell or do anything to help candidates win races, so they couldn't expect much back in return. Very interesting comment. And it figures.

[leesa]

18. I hope so. I hope they have driven people away from this cult in droves.

And, like you, I don't mean the real heartfelt Christianity, I mean this cruel, bigoted, bastardized variation.

[Homer Wells]

24. Religion as the spiritual inspiration of a people

the "love and light" that helps individuals to find a higher path to their existence, is almost without exception, co-opted by the power structure of a society, and perverted to the goal of controlling that society, and furthering the non-religious goals of that power structure.
So it has been, and so it shall always be.
I think spirituality, as separated from organized religion, can be a powerful force for inner development, and a comfort for those ho need it, but I have absolutely no use for any organized religion that would diminish me.
'Nuff said!

[Skidmore]

25. yes, they have. Because the most important freedom we have is

that to not believe any one religion, creed, or system. They forgot the original reason for the establishment clause of the constitution.

[stepnw1f]

44. NAILED IT! (nt)

[misternormal]

26. if we want a truly "free" society, or as close as we can get...

... Then we have to lean to the side of tolerance of anything that is not unlawful...

But yes, I believe that they have gone too far.

[Marr]

28. I think it might be useful to look at the root causes of fundamentalism,

and fight those.

The US has by far the largest fundamentalist population of any developed nation, and we've also got the highest levels of poverty and polarized wealth distribution. The nation is also under pretty much constant fear campaigns of one sort or another, and has been for decades now. Personally, I think that's the soil our fundamentalists thrive in.

[trotsky]

31. Christians are what they are.

It does no one any good to try and differentiate between "good" ones and "bad" ones. They're all Christians. The religion, like most of them, is open to wildly different interpretations - but because it's all based on divine revelation from a deity who hasn't bothered to reveal anything else in 2000 years, one Christian's guess is as good as another's.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

43. One thing that riles me...

...and it's inefficient deities. :)

[Nikia]

34. They need to realize that America is not a theocracy

Individual churches are free to demand any (legal) behavior of their members that they want even though it may be deemed oppressive by general society. It is their right to be free to practice their religion. They are even free to encourage others to join their Church. They should realize that just as they are free to do these things. Others are free not to subscribe to their religion.
It has also been my experience that choosing to belong to a religion is more sincere than be coerced.
It is in their best interests that religion is one of choice.

[mandyky]

35. Many "GWB Christians" have become upset with Georgy boy

I think Katrina was the turning point. I think Kentucky is gonna be a bluish purple street the next few elections.

[earth mom]

39. Money is the root of all evil-too many of em worship money first

& foremost. :puke:

WWJD?

[progressivebydesign]

50. I detest the religious people who expect the country to cater to them!

Those are the ones that I think have gone too far. Believe what you want, folks, but STOP trying to shove it down the throats of everyone in your country. Keep it out of our government, our schools, and off my front porch. That is what is driving the frustration with them right now, their stealth candidates on school boards, and their belief that because we don't want a Christian-driven government, that we are persecuting them. I truly believe that those types are the most ignorant and easily led people of all... they are so easily duped. They believe their filthy rich preachers who explain their mansions and Rolls Royces by saying that God wants them to be rich.

Worship what you want, but keep it out of my life.

[El Fuego]

52. Yes, a few Christians are starting to speak out against it.

I read an article recently about an outspoken minister who was delivering sermons about the danger of the church becoming the state. Also there's the new book against the administration by David Kuo, "Tempting Faith." Kuo is a Christian with a high profile in the religious right hierarchy.

[demwing]

53. Spreading The Word = Ponzi Scheme

In a very real way. Your initial investment is your leap of faith in the dogma. In order to reap the high return (going to heaven) you have to continually bring in new investors (proselytize and create new converts).

I know the analogy isn't complete (you've got Jesus in there, securing your initial investment - lol), but its the first thing that comes to mind when I think of missionaries.

[Fleshdancer]

54. Fundies aren't the problem. The GOP catering to them is the issue.

Falwell has been around for a long time. In fact, extremists of every religion have existed throughout history. Their hard line beliefs aren't harmful as long as government doesn't cater to their crazy agenda and allow them to control how government and society functions.

The GOP is to blame for this. They should know better but instead of doing what is best for the country, they cater to the socially accepted insane for the short term goal of receiving a quick buck and the promise of votes.

[woo me with science]

60. thank you. nt

[Warren DeMontague]

57. I don't think they're as numerous as they like to think. They have more

power than they deserve. The American Public is much more liberal; and socially libertarian than the GOP and the MSM want people to realize.

Any party -hopefully ours- that makes a SERIOUS play (personal freedom, right to privacy, end-of-life choice, end the drug war, separation of church and state, gay and reproductive rights, leave my shit alone, fiscal sanity) for the unaligned, educated, urban and suburban social libertarian vote will build a solid long-term 21st century majority.

[seabeyond]

63. my very christian 8 yr old son read you title and yelled ... YESSSSS

so, cause he is so wise, i guess we have the answer