Wow, I really thought we had a chance at stopping FASCISM

[berni_mccoy]

Bush's political capital wasted...
America saw for the first time how it's republican led gov't is doing a 'hecuva' job on Homeland Security with Katrina
Corruption scandal after Corruption scandal on ONLY REPUBLICANS has been coming out for the last two years
Fitzgerald indicting PEOPLE IN THE WHITEHOUSE
America waking up to the credibility of the anti-war stance (led by Cindy Sheehan)
Republicans eating their own on many issues, including thier own Supreme Court appointment (Miers)
Bush hitting ALL TIME LOWS in job approval
Dems picking up favorability of mainstream America
BUSH ADMITS HE BROKE THE LAW (claims it was not illegal, yeah right)...
Dems start showing a spine
GOP Lawmaking AGENDA SUCCESSFULLY BLOCKED
Several Admin Initiatives SHOT DOWN BEFORE THEY GOT GOING (SS, Tax systems overhaul)

And then I read this CRAZY SHIT: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x238994

When we do this kind of NONSENSE, INAPPROPRIATE, BASELESS, FACTLESS trashing of the people on our own side, we've lost before we've even had a chance to do something...

Here are the FACTS that Cindy NEGLECTED

From Wiki (and MANY OTHER SOURCES) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_sanctions:

United Nations sanctions against Iraq were imposed by the United Nations in 1991 following Iraq's invasion of Kuwait in 1990, and continued until the US-led invasion of Iraq in 2003 because of the failure of Saddam Hussein to satisfy the UN that the conditions for lifting them had been met.

and this:

On August 6, 1990 the U.N. Security Council adopted Resolution 661 which imposed stringent economic sanctions on Iraq, providing for a full trade embargo, excluding medical supplies, food and other items of humanitarian necessity, these to be determined by the Security Council sanctions committee. After the end of the 1991 Gulf War, Iraqi sanctions were linked to removal of Weapons of mass destruction by Resolution 687.

and this:

Iraq was later allowed under the UN Oil-for-Food Programme, introduced in 1996, (under Resolution 986) to export $5.2 billion (USD) of oil every 6 months with which to purchase items needed to sustain the civilian population. After an initial refusal, Iraq signed a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) in May 1996 for arrangements for the implementation of that resolution to be taken. The Oil-for-Food Programme started in October 1997, and the first shipments of food arrived in March 1998.

Thirty percent of the proceeds were redirected to a Gulf War reparations account.

In 2004/5 the Programme became the subject of major media attention over corruption, as Iraq had systematically sold allocations of oil at below-market prices in return for some of the proceeds from the resale outside the scope of the programme. Individuals and companies from dozens of countries were implicated.

Saddam WAS RESPONSIBLE FOR THOSE DEATHS, NOT CLINTON or anyone else in America.

Man, the pure blindness to the facts here AMAZES ME.

[400Years]

1. How exactly is acknowledging facts defeating our purpose?

Stop the personality worship and focus on the issues.

Clinton is not a god nor is he much of a fighter against fascism.

[berni_mccoy]

3. Because Cindy doesn't KNOW THE FACTS

She's making a baseless statement.

[400Years]

5. bullshit even Madeline Albright acknowledged the deaths

[berni_mccoy]

6. WHO PLACED THE SANCTIONS?!?! THE U.N.!!!

SHEESH.

[manic expression]

7. Backed by the US

Why was the US involved in thousands of sorties in Iraq between the two Gulf wars? Oh, was that the UN, too? :eyes:

The US imposed the sanctions. 4,000 Iraqi children died a month because of it. Their blood is on our hands.

[berni_mccoy]

8. You know why republicans can't let go of Clinton?!?

Because of bullshit like this. This is why the Dems will NEVER succeed.

[manic expression]

9. It's not about that

Partisan politics doesn't enter into this. Clinton and his administration is responsible for their unnecessary and unjustified deaths, and I will never shy away from that.

I really don't care what the Republicans can or can't let go of. The fact stands that Clinton had many bad policies, and this one is positively terrible. If we start ignoring blatant starvation of innocents because of party loyalty, we have lost everything and more. It's time for the truth, it's time to stand up for what's right.

[berni_mccoy]

14. It is completely about this...

Dems can't focus on the important issues...

The people here at DU just proved it.

We've got to find someone to blame. Hey LET'S BLAME CLINTON!

No different than republicans.

[400Years]

15. your myopic

[ProfessorGAC]

16. Never Mind!

Too nasty, even for me.
The Professor

[Heewack]

17. No one but Saddam is responsible.

It all falls on his shoulders. He had billions he was spending building palaces while he people died.

[manic expression]

18. BS

pure BS. The sanctions directly caused starvation in Iraq and destroyed the economy. Don't try to lay the blame on someone else. Even Albright acknowledged the devestating effect the sanctions had.

And by the way, UNICEF and a myriad of humanitarian organizations think you're wrong as well.

[Blutodog]

4. Clinton's a traitor

I'm soooo very sick of watching Billy with his lips placed on GHB's butt enough already doesn't this clueless klown get it? He thinks somehow giving cover to this crime family gets him and his wife brownie pts. with the voters. Always pandering that's all he knows anymore. The man and his wife make me sick. He did nothing to help the base while in office and he's only helping Bu$hCo turn Amerika into a fascist state. Gore atleast has the gonads to stand up and call a spade a spade where is Billy and his wife?

[FlaGranny]

12. I suggest you do

a google on Clinton's accomplishments while he was in office. It is simply untrue that he did nothing for the base.

[JeffR]

2. From what I see at DU this week

It's all over. Apparently we were just one conservative Supreme Court Justice away from the COMPLETE DESTRUCTION OF AMERICAN DEMOCRACY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So all that good stuff you mentioned above doesn't matter anyway.

:sarcasm:

As for Cindy, I respect her and admire her courage, but it's hard to consider her the font of enduring wisdom some folks seem convinced she is.

[progdonkey]

10. yeah... never really got into the whole Cindy thing...

I honestly never got the whole "Cindy Sheehan is God" thing that still even seems to be going on. When Sheehan says something, so many people on our side act as if it must be the truth because Cindy said it.

What she knows is that her son joined the Army to protect the US, Bush sent her son to Iraq ostensibly to protect the US, her son was killed, she learned that Bush had lied about the neccessity for war in Iraq, she asked him to explain why her son had to die, he refused to meet with her, she refused to leave until she got an answer.

This doesn't mean she has the slightest clue about US history, world history, politics, economics, sociology, whatever, and usually when she opens her mouth about one of these subjects, she proves she is incredibly ignorant of those very subjects.

But because she showed some courage refusing to just cower in fear from Bush and received attention for it, she's given this status as some left-wing sage.

She's a mother who refused to back down. That's it. She's deserving of great respect for that, but that doesn't mean she has a clue about anything else.

[Connie_Corleone]

11. It's ALL Clinton's fault. Saddam was not responsible for anything.

:sarcasm:

So much for the reality based community.

[berni_mccoy]

13. My sentiments EXACTLY

Let's forget about all the bad shit Saddam did.

Let's not focus on what IS TRULY IMPORTANT.

Let's BLAME CLINTON!!!

YAY. Something republicans and apparently democrats HAVE IN COMMON!!! WHOOOHOOO!!!!


:sarcasm:

[DrunkenMaster]

19. I thoguht we had a chance to stop flamebait

but apparently that is also incorrect.