Are you as sick of religious fundamentalism as I am?

[Philosoraptor]

These people are disgusting, and they've been shoving that shit down my throat for too fucking long now and I am flat out fucking tired of it.

I have these people in my family, thank god they are the rare kind, born again Democrats who hate bush, but my bro and his wife are dead on zombie Jesus bush voting zombies.

These fanatics endanger us all, literally, I've been saying it for 30 years now, that's how long my family members have been converted to the cult, and it is a cult, as are all religions.

Are we to allow a cult to conquer America right before our eyes? Are we to just roll our eyes and be polite when these fuckers shove this shit right down our throats like Spanish inquisitors?

They are too dumb to chew gum, but they can get out and vote for nazis by the millions, and this makes them intolerable to a free America.

They are scared to death of crazy Islamists, and so am I, but they are the exact same thing, they participate in the exact same madness, and they perpetuate the exact same ancient hatreds and slights and they threaten the United States in the exact same way as the Taliban crazies, they worship the exact same god, and they think the exact same way.

And they are trying to take over our nation, and when you say that to the average guy on the street they don't believe you, its too fantastic, too sci fi, too implausible.

I'm fucking sick of them, and my parents and my brother and sis in law know better than to talk that religio-political bullshit to my face, cause they'll get a red hot rant right up their asses every time.

I'm tired of being polite to them on the street, I'm tired of kissing their ass and giving them breaks because they are good Christian people, fuck them and the cross they rode in on.

[Hubert Flottz]

1. F?ck Yes...

F?ck them cowardly, sheepish, dumb, bastids and bastidettes!

Edit...Rapture My Ass!...Bring that shit on!

[ChairmanAgnostic]

11. wot hu sed.

I am sick and tired of their claiming that only they have a truth, partly based on 1500 yr old faerie tails, and partly based on great old fictional literature that was stolen, borrowed, begs, copied and mistranslated from the earliers societies and sects, hitite, egyptian, canaan and others.

[Swamp Rat]

2. Don't worry

Though he didn't show up this Mardi Gras, I (and hundreds of drag queens :D) usually give your bro a hard time... hey, it's my turf he's preachin' on! :D

[tavalon]

24. Is that the one with the cross that has messages scrolling across the top

I saw him one year at Mardi Gras. I pointed and laughed. He turned away but was not chased away. Too bad.

[xchrom]

3. oh yes.

it will be interesting to see what happens to them as the millenium progresses and there is no rapture and jesus doesn't come back.

and by way of clarification -- i am christian.

[tavalon]

25. Just not one of them crazy ass christians?

I'm guessing you must belong to UU since they are the only ones enlightened enough to accept you and me. Well, the pagans are as well but you mentioned that you are christian.

[xchrom]

43. episcopalian.

[tavalon]

45. Oh, yeah, they're pretty accepting as well

If I were ever going to go back to christianity, I would go UU as they support pagans and polys, of which I am both. I've known a UU minister who presided over a (non-legal) marriage of four. Not my quad nor my current group. We went to my pagan priest for the first one (it was a kickass ceremony but the marriage not so much)and we're all living in sin in the second one. Even if the government would allow either one of us to marry and they will not, we would probably decline this time around. I'm not much of a ring wearer and none of us can agree on a necklace. I suppose we could do some kind of bracelet. I will have to bring that one up in the next family meeting. Of course, we need to finish our trial period of a year and a day first, anyway.

[xchrom]

46. i'm drawing more pan-theism into my personal faith.

i've always had a streak of the old religion in my thinking /spirituality.

[AzDar]

4. Fundamentalism : dangerous abroad, dangerous here. n/t

[cboy4]

5. Ahhhh, you speak wisely Grasshopper

[wake.up.america]

6. Well, I see the Austrian version of these guys. I really have to watch...

it as one woman in particular drives me nuts.

This woman's daughter happens to be my daughter's best friend.

Halloween is coming up. My kids love the parties, which are becoming more and more popular over here.

Of course this woman won't let her daughter go trick or treating or to the parties because she believes it's a pagan holiday.

I know the story behind "Allerheiligen" and Halloween, etc. The kids don't know anything about this, they just want to have fun.

Meanwhile, the woman is incredibly impolite and holier than thou.

I'll try to be polite to her, which is really the best thing to do.

[Cobalt-60]

8. It's ironic

Pagan comes from the Latin Pagenses, the rural districts.
When those ancient Christians said Pagan, they meant Hillbilly.
They were looking down their noses at anyone not yet converted.
Today, it's largely rural Christians, our Hillbillies, using Pagan as a slur.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

12. excuse me, but a large segment of those types view politeness as

weakness, which makes you a ready target for their brainwashing efforts.
Being polite to someone who poses a direct and clear danger to our society's future might be a misplaced approach.

[bdamomma]

22. oh yes, I have encountered that also

why can't people just let their kids be kids, Halloween to kids is just about dressing up and getting candy, let the kids be kids.

[tavalon]

27. It is a pagan holiday

Christians would do well to share given that they stole most of our Holidays. Fucking freaks.

[OnionPatch]

34. Our community is so full of them

that they canceled Halloween at our school. That's right, kids aren't allowed to wear Halloween stuff and the teachers aren't allowed to mention Halloween or decorate for it or anything.

[Pacifist Patriot]

35. I've been wracking my brain to come up with a Christian festival...

that doesn't have pagan roots or elements and darnit, I just can't come up with one. Now how could that be? :sarcasm:

[sakabatou]

7. Vent your anger here

http://wwww.fstdt.com

[rodeodance]

9. yes. i agree. I avoid them but maybe that is not the answer. Now, they

are hitting on Rice cause of mother in law statement.
Not that I approve of Rice---they the fundie meanness has gotton out of hand.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

19. hasn't their meanest been their most consistent facet?

Look how they treated the poor, the elderly, the vets, the sick, the infirm and the disabled.

It is not that their meaness has gotten out of hand, it is simply more visible, in all its gory.

[Ayesha]

10. God yes

Pun fully intended. But the problem is that this issue is not as black and white as we often make it out to be here.

For example, right now our Christian contractor who is remodeling our new house is making me crazy. I knew he was a Christian when we hired him, but he was very kind and not pushy about it, so we weren't worried. We're from the Midwest, and he's from North Dakota and refreshingly free of the attitude and dishonesty that is rampant among building contractors here in CA. A few weeks later he even said that my partner and I make a great couple (we're lesbians) so then my mind was really set at ease. He would talk about God or Jesus on occasion, but it was always about him and his beliefs and not political or anti-gay in any way. But then last Friday he started to talk to us about accepting Jesus and blah blah. He seems to think the end times are coming soon. He said he's been praying about how to minister to us and apparently according to whatever denomination he belongs to, it's basically a sin if you have the chance to talk to a non-Christian about Jesus and don't. Still nothing anti-gay, but it's irritating nontheless.

My partner is very patient and polite and just listens, because she feels that what he says comes from a loving place, that he means well. I can't stand people pushing their beliefs on me, but I stayed polite too. I'm just afraid this is going to continue and I'm not sure how long I can cope before I get snippy. I'm trying to figure out how to put a stop to it without offending him and I'm not sure what to do. I agree with my partner that he means it well, that this is how he shows he cares, and he's not some nasty asshole Freeper. BUT at the same time, I have my own integrity and right to my beliefs. I have no problem with any person's beliefs as long as they don't try to make ME believe it or get the government to take away my rights. And he has crossed one of those lines.

I almost wish I'd said from the beginning that I was a Christian, (I'm not, though I do greatly admire Jesus, which I've told him as a means of appeasement) - but then again, I've never said explicitly that I'm not, so why does he assume it? If I had bent the reality a bit and claimed to already be "saved", maybe he wouldn't have started this, but as I said, I had no reason to think he would.

What does one do about people like this?

[Loge23]

13. Remind him why he's there

You hired a contractor, not a preacher.
If he believes in prayer, fine - prayer will take care of it.
I would not even approach any kind of reasonable debate, he's clearly not up for that.
Good luck with the project!

[tavalon]

28. I would say

thank you for ministering to me. And then leave it at that. Hopefully, he will consider his job done and will finish the job he was hired to do without further ado.

[Gman]

14. We've been putting up with them here in Texas my entire life

I remember what a fight it was just to get liquor by the drink. Didn't happen until about 1971 or 3 or so. Then came horse and dog racing. Didn't get that until the early 1990's. There are still plenty of "dry" precincts and counties around Texas.

[StellaBlue]

15. They will enable our downfall

I have been sick of them since... well, BIRTH. Fucking East Texas. I knew early that I was not and never would be one of them. I think - if I escaped, they can, too (mentally). No excuse. No pity. I just hate them.

[BlueEyedSon]

16. Read Sam Harris and Richard Dawkins, both on the bestseller list

this week

"Letter to a Christian Nation" and "The God Delusion" IIRC

[StellaBlue]

17. Seconded

Dawkins has given me TONS of new ideas and perspectives on explaining WHY exactly I feel the way I do. We're right; they're wrong. I pussy-foot no longer.

[BlueEyedSon]

29. Theyre not WRONG, theyre NUTS!

[no_hypocrisy]

18. Since the summer of 1980 when Time Magazine ran a story about

Jerry Falwell, the Moral Majority, and Reagan welcoming their contribution to the republican party. It's gone downhill since then. And face it: JF et al have not made it a secret what their goal is: a fundamental Christian theocracy which would go after Christian sects that did not resemble theirs.

[DocSavage]

20. They sure

do pi** me off. I mean, where do they think they get the right to question my belief system, my moral standards, my personal religion? Where do they get off determining that I should be cast off if I do not convert to thier beliefs? Killing people in the name of religion, making judgements on sexual practices. I'll tell ya, those Muslum extreamists really get my goat. oh, you are talking about the religious right in this country. And how many heads have they cut off in the past year?

You are seeing a boogyman under the bed, but you are seeing the wrong one.

[YOY]

30. Heads cut off, no

Just give em a little more rope and let the voices of folks like Fred Phelps gain legitimacy...maybe not beheadings, but they'll find a way to kill folks if given the chance. They can justify themselves.

Ask the abortion clinic bombers...they will always justify themselves.

If you don't think people can be killed under Christian Theocracy (or any theocracy for that matter) than you are not paying any attention to history: Salem Witch trials, the inquisition, and a quite a few other events.

[bdamomma]

21. I have a saying that holds very true today

TOO MUCH RELIGION CAN MAKE A PERSON STUPID.

[tavalon]

23. Yup

I was raised Southern Baptist but too much of it didn't make sense. My grandfather (my grandparents raised me) always said I thought too much for my own good and I guess I did think a lot but not too much for my own good. I've been out of the cult for nearly 25 years now. I'm not an athiest though, I do believe in a higher power just not the jealous God of my youth. Yahweh does not play well with others so he isn't allowed in my metaphysical sandbox.

Yeah, these people are dangerous. Funny thing, when I was a child, these people were all Democrats but now they're all Republicans. What up with that? Either way, they are dangerous and stupid. A bad combo if you ask me. A little thinking would do them all good but as dutiful sheep, there will be no thinking for them.

[iamahaingttta]

26. Yes, and that's why I've decided to...

...persecute Christians.
At every opportunity.
All of them, even the nice ones.
Oh, I'll do it nicely to the nice ones, but I'll be nasty to the nasty ones.
Basically, it comes down to this:

"Do you really believe in all that made up mumbo-jumbo fairy tale bullshit? Don't you understand that it's all a bunch of children's stories designed to keep the kiddies scared of the dark so they stay in bed? And designed to keep you giving your hard-earned money to some charismatic demagogue who doesn't want to actually work for a living? Do you really need to believe in some Big Daddy on the sky who will tell you what to do in order to be able to do the right thing? Are you really so frightened by your own impulses that you can't control yourself without some Jebus telling you 'Bad! No!'? Don't you know that the truth about the universe is probably so much more interesting than your old bronze-age shepherd's stories, and if you'd get your head out of your ass, you might find that everything you think and believe is so totally wrong and that you are being used by people who laugh at you every time they are behind closed doors? Would you please grow up and be a whole person so that we can evolve out of this baby-time sandbox mentality that keeps us fighting against each other and dying for bullshit?"

I had a chance to do that just yesterday with some guy who tried to had me a Watchtower.
He looked pretty embarrassed!

The only trouble with persecuting Christians, however, is that they like it!
(and yes, I'll persecute Muslims and Buddhists and Jews and Hindus and Zoroastrians and Sikhs and Rastafarians and Scientologists and Jainists and Hari Krishnas and whoever else with equal zeal...)

[verse18]

38. Oooo, I have a perfect example of this.

"Are you really so frightened by your own impulses that you can't control yourself without some Jebus telling you 'Bad! No!'? "

I'm an Atheist living in the Bible Belt and I work with a group of women who are highly religious. My supervisors is an insulin dependant diabetic and she has a hard time managing her diet. After picking up dinner one night, she talked about how she was going to be "strong" and not eat some carrot souffle, which she loves. She goes on to say how she went and LOOKED at the souffle, but said "Satan, get thee behind me," and she was "strong in the Lawd" and didn't eat the souffle.

Then the rest of my coworkers join in saying, "That is what you're supposed to do. Tell that devil to get behind you," and it practically turns into a "jump and shout" session. They talk about the "temptation" of the souffle and "rebuking the Devil" and on and on.

So I'm sitting there doing my paperwork listening to all this and after a while I say, "Y'all, it's just carrot souffle. You're rebuking CARROT SOUFFLE." That shut them up real quick and I was throughly amused.

[Philosoraptor]

39. I rebuke thee carrot souffle! I casteth thee outeth!

[stopbush]

44. God is the babysitter for adults who never grew up.

He's like Santa - he knows when you are sleeping, he knows when you're awake. He knows when you've been bad or good...
so, vote Republican, for goodness sake!

[SammyWinstonJack]

47. !

:spray: :rofl:

[focusfan]

31. Right on my thoughts exactly

I know religeous nuts that all they can talk about is the end of time.They don`t try to do anything don`t want to have anything.Christians in business will screw over and cheat quicker than anyone,if someone tells me what a good christian they are I flat out refuse to have any dealing with them.A good rule of thumb for dealing with them is keep one hand on your wallet and the other on your butthole,because they will rob and fuck you at the same time,they won`t use any lube either.

[atommom]

32. Very sick of them, and I live in a very religious area.

I don't know whether more people are religious now, or whether they are now just bolder about stating their beliefs, but I often feel as if I'm walking through a minefield here. Can't talk to the other school moms without hearing random snippets of Godliness thrown in, have to avoid the topic with members of my own family, and walk a fine line between allowing our kids to play with the neighbors' kids while refusing all invites to their church functions. We do attend a UU church now, a very liberal one with a lot of humanist and atheist members, mostly for moral support. It is a relief to have a community where we can speak freely. The kids are learning about Christianity and other religions there, but they also know that it's best not to accept any religion as truth. I think it's good training for young freethinkers.

The current religious climate is making me very uneasy. I'm quite sure that a lot of my acquaintances wouldn't have anything to do with me if I told them where I really stand.

[OnionPatch]

33. They sicken me

and I'm a Christian! I can't see a flag or a cross these days without getting a sick feeling in the pit of my stomach. I ask myself why I have such a strong negative reaction, but I know it's because....they ARE trying to take over our government. Not just take it over, but overthrow our way of self-government. They are the ground troops in the GOP election fraud which proves that they are willing to do anything it takes to gain power regardless of whether the majority of Americans agree with them. That means they are against democracy. If you're against democracy, you're pretty much against America (and God too, if you ask me.)

We may have been among the first to realize this, but I have a good feeling that the rest of the country is catching on, so I'm hopeful that we'll see this "reign of witches" pass.

[Pacifist Patriot]

36. I'm also sick of fundies trying to use UU tolerance against me.

The inevitable whine..."well you people claim to be tolerant but you bash us every time you turn around, that makes you the worst kind of hypocrit."

But don't bother trying to get into a discussion of what constitutes tolerance and the concept of committed relativism in ethics. They really couldn't care less about the difference between freedom of thought verses cramming your beliefs down someone else's throat.

I do believe they have every right to their right-wing extremist literalist view of religion. But that doesn't mean I can't push back when their beliefs turn into action that results in an oppressive government, a spiritually malnourished society and an infringement on my religious freedom.

Believe whatever you like fundies, just stay the hell away from my civil liberties.

Sorry, touchy subject this week thanks to my fundie relatives...who still insist I'm no legitimate minister despite an advanced degree in divinity studies and an ordination. Apparently I'm not fit to bless the bounty at the Thanksgiving table. Whatever.

[Philosoraptor]

37. not fit to bless the bounty at the Thanksgiving table. wow. just wow.

you're obviously a terrible and doomed person, like me.

[Pacifist Patriot]

40. Granted, it's probably because they know I will not conclude the..

blessing with "in Jesus' name we pray."

Yes, I'm doomed. At least according to one of my aunts who stood in my kitchen and regretfully informed me she was distressed I was going to hell. Must be nice to be so sure of things.

[Philosoraptor]

41. Yes, we won't get to sit with them in Heaven

It is the ultimate put down, you will fry in hell forever because you chose the wrong religion. God sure is mean huh? And some folks just have to be forever in heaven above you like it's elite social club.

[Pacifist Patriot]

42. Can you imagine sitting in heaven with Dobson, Falwell and ilk?

Now that WOULD be hell!

[wakemeupwhenitsover]

48. I'm going to lock this.

With regard to religion (or the lack thereof), Democratic Underground is a diverse community which includes Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Muslims, Hindus, Atheists, Agnostics, and others. All are welcome here. For this reason, we expect members to make an extra effort to be sensitive to different religious beliefs, and to show respect to members who hold different religious beliefs. Members are welcome to discuss whether they agree or disagree with particular religious beliefs, but they are expected to do so in a relatively sensitive and respectful manner. As a general rule, discussions about ideas are usually permitted, but broad-brush bigoted statements about groups of people — either religious or non-religious — are not.

best,
wakemeupwhenitsover
DU Moderator