Why is this election rights advocate wearing handcuffs????

[garybeck]

This is very scary. This really reeks of the Gestapo.

--



Florida activist, candidate charged with felony wiretapping

The State of Florida has filed felony wiretapping charges against election reform activist Charles Grapski for audiotaping his efforts to obtain public records related to his investigation of alleged election fraud, RAW STORY has learned. He faces arraignment Tuesday, October 17th.

http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Florida_activist_candidate_charged_with_felony_1017.html

[Pab Sungenis]

1. What is the law in Florida?

Most states require approval of one party, so if he knows he's taping, he would be OK.

[sui generis]

3. and what a stupid law anyway

what is the difference between taking really good notes and recording a conversation?

There should be no difference whatsoever. So technically if you could take perfect notes and dictation you would also be violating the wiretap law?

I recently had a run in with a federal agency and informed them I was recording them, even offered to send them a copy without a subpoena, and was told that I couldn't record them. I've invited them to do something about it. In fact I begged them to do something about it. When I asked them if THEY were recording they claimed they were. When I asked if they were willing to conduct the remainder of our business exclusively in writing they said they wouldn't.

I haven't heard back, but I am really looking forward to it if they do. I would like to retire early.

[babylonsister]

2. Watson knew he was being taped, and then ordered Grapski

arrested? This is yet another outrage.

"Grapski audiotaped City Manager Clovis Watson, who commented on the fact that he was being taped, consented, and kept talking, Thomas noted. Subsequently Watson, who also serves as Police Commissioner (an apparent violation of Florida law that prohibits officials from holding more than one public office at a time), ordered Grapski arrested."

[sui generis]

12. and on another topic

that's an example of everything I "don't" like about the "strong city manager" model.

Why does this elected administrative public official get to order somebody's arrest? Sounds an awful lot like somebody has just a little too much power for their britches.

When somebody issues a warrant you usually have to have a case. If recording without consent was the law that was broken, then this guy KNOWS he doesn't have a case, yet used the arrest to harrass the guy.

I just wrote a letter to the state attorney general expressing my complete contempt for their legal system, and told him I would record at will without anyone's permission required. That I INTENDED to break this so called law, and hopefully that would be enough to get me arrested. In Texas.

We'll see what happens. :shrug:

[babylonsister]

19. Good for you for doing something, sui.

Wouldn't a judge have to sign an arrest warrant? You're right, I'm thinking. This petty little public official knows too many people and is too big for his britches, regardless of how suspect the guy who taped the exchange is.

[blm]

52. Wow. Good for you. That's hanging tough.

Citizen patriots on the march.

[NoSheep]

59. That's what I'M talkin about! Action!

:bounce: :bounce:

[Up2Late]

4. Because a Bush is Governor.

Simple as that.:mad:

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. Because he's a local asshole

who does this for attention.

He's no friend of election rights or anyone else's rights.

[MADem]

7. Can you elaborate? Do you have local info on this guy? Tx in advance NT

[DoYouEverWonder]

8. He's been around for years causing trouble

He tries to stir things up and usually makes a big stink over nothing. He pits people against each other and is a manipulator.

He's been written up in the Gainesville Sun a number of times.

The guy makes Bev Harris look honest and rational.

[MADem]

9. Gosh, like a troll who doesn't use the tubes of the internets? Wow!!

All heat, and no light?

[sui generis]

10. just the same

there are absolutely NO cases in which I believe that you should not be allowed to record a business or government phone conversation, period.

I can't possibly think of one single reason why someone speaking to a business entity or the government would NOT want a record, especially in this day and age.

Being an asshole isn't illegal. I speak from experience.

[MADem]

18. Funny, if that pic is contemporaneous, they permitted visual records

to be made--so why not audio records? Could there be more here?

[DoYouEverWonder]

32. Right or wrong

don't we have more important things to focus on for the next three weeks? Or should we sit around tearing each other apart while Charlie Crist gets elected governor?

[sui generis]

34. loss of civil liberties is not less important

The end result is if you feel like defying authority or engaging in peaceful civil disobedience, you can expect to be arrested and harrassed, and apparently, that's okay with you.

No, we do not have more important things to talk about in a thread dedicated to the subject.

[DoYouEverWonder]

35. A staged event

is not a grevious loss of civil liberties.

If you want to fight for civil liberties the prisons are full of people who are much more worthwhile to defend.

[sui generis]

42. if you want to discuss staged events start a thread on the topic

staged event or not, he was arrested for recording a conversation. Hell, I'll stage it too to make a point about that law.

That's what activists do, as annoying as that may seem to some.

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[DoYouEverWonder]

27. I've been on DU for years dear

I live in Alachua County and everyone around here knows this guy. He is a major grandstanding asshole. Funny that he got arrested in public and there just happened to be a cameraman to record the event.

[madfloridian]

28. You should be ashamed of your character assassination of Charlie.

I am glad we have people like him who annoy the right wing a**holes in Alachua. They own the city.

Look up a book called "Tortoise Stew". Read about your city, and Charlie will start looking better to you.

[DoYouEverWonder]

31. The City of Gainesville, Alachua County and the City of Alachua

are three different entities.

Charlie's case is with the City of Alachua and small town commission that in the grand scheme of things is relatively insignificant entity.

I don't know Charlie personally but I've seen him on the local gov channel at commission meetings and I've followed his antics in the Gainesville Sun for years. All I can say is I have been very involved in local politics and most politically active people around here know of Charlie and considers him to be a jerk.

In the 90's I was the President of the East Gainesville Development Task Force. The project involved working with all levels of government and many other private agencies. Yet I am as big a raving liberal as you can get and I have never had a problem working within the system with the local elected officials. Even the Republicans around here are fairly rational people. Alachua County is not a hotbed of dirty repug politics. We are one of the most Democratic and liberal counties in the state. We did get an influx of BushCo assholes in the last 6 years, but most of them left after the 2004 election.

I'm sorry if I am offended people who have put their faith in Charlie, but anyone around here you knows me, should know I would never come out so strongly against someone without a good reason. Charlie is a waste of time and a distraction. There are much more important things we need to spend our time on in the next 3 weeks.

[madfloridian]

33. I remember a DU where people thought twice...

before calling someone an asshole. I really do remember that.

Your area of Alachua needs to do some examining.

Do you realize that asshole who speak of just got charged with felony wiretapping?

And you seem fine with that because you think he's an asshole.

No justice for assholes...right?

Alachua will have a lot to answer for in the future, the city, the county, and whatever else there is with that name.

[DoYouEverWonder]

36. If you purposely do things to get yourself arrested

and to cause trouble, I don't have a lot of sympathy for you.

[garybeck]

37. some would call it Civil Disobedience. n/t

[DoYouEverWonder]

39. The go after a bigger fish

Charlie is a waste of time and a distraction.

Code Pink showing up at a Congressional hearing is civil disobedience. What Charlie does around here has nothing to do with civil disobedience.

[sui generis]

53. well kick dear poor old Rosa Parks down in her grave

and every other person who ever engaged in civil disobedience.

In case anyone here has forgotten, this is a progressive board where we usually laud attempts to speak out against and to protest against abuses of authority and abuses of our political system.

Those of you who don't understand that might be happier posting at more "moderate" locations rather than trying to convert the rest of us to be less progressive.

[DoYouEverWonder]

54. Charlie Grapski is no Rosa Parks

and comparing him to her is an insult to her memory. You've got to be kidding?

[sui generis]

67. no, you've got to be kidding

did grade school let out around here? Seriously, when you say "anyone who does something to get arrested" and you follow it up with buffoonery and false outrage like that I have to wonder if your parents know you're playing hookey today.

[Patiod]

69. Thanks for the inside info

A few years ago, there was someone like that in my small town: total jerk, a disruption, not someone who helps the cause, main goal was to get a lot of press attention (to help his law firm? to run for higher office?) When I'd read coverage in the Philadelphia papers, he sounded reasonable, but in practice, we all watched him behave as attention-seeking narcissistic jackass, who never actually DID anything useful- didn't show up and work his poll when needed, didn't vote in key intra-party elections, just came in and interupted Democratic Committee meetings, got into screaming fights, pulled attention-getting stunts, and did whatever he could to get press attention for HIMSELF (not for any specific cause).

So I trust the people who have had to work with a person more than I trust a reporter, who with the best of intentions, looks at a snippet of time, and writes a story around that snippet, without knowing or being ABLE to know the whole context.

[NoSheep]

60. Nasty tone from the git-go.

I'm gonna be doing this kind of shit til they kick me out. I've had it. Calling the poster "DEAR" is just ridiculous in a reasonable debate.

[madfloridian]

14. He should elaborate after a slur on someone's character like that.

I hope he does.

[madfloridian]

11. Do you know Charlie? Have you met him? That's slanderous.

Have you known of his activism through the years other than from that community?

That is a very ugly statement. He sets the recorder in full sight. Makes no attempt to hide it. He ends up being banned from the city of Alachua, unable to get what he needs to defend himself.

I am stunned someone would say that.

[madfloridian]

13. I have a lot of stuff about Charlie....present your case.

Charlie is a long time member of the Dean/DFA community. He has lectured at Democracy Fests and other events, and the bloggers have been trying to get attention for him.

Here is just one example from E Pluribus Media. I have many others, and I have picture of him at events.

http://scoop.epluribusmedia.org/story/2006/6/12/21059/4109

[SmokingJacket]

22. Obviously I don't have the backstory here...

but Andrew Gumbel's article is pretty elucidating.

Anyway, you can't arrest people for being annoying, or even for being an asshole. It seems clear the taping charge was trumped up -- the kind of thing those in power sometimes do to throw their weight around at those who don't back down.

[madfloridian]

25. Pics of Charlie and Jim Hightower speaking at DemFest in TX

http://sf4dean.com/gallery/Posted-by-David-A-Stevenson

3rd row, I think.

[madfloridian]

29. Molly Ivins was there as well. Not bad company for an a**hole.

.

[madfloridian]

30. Others at the fest...Jim Dean, Richard Morrison...Howard D. spoke as well.

Pretty good company for an a**hole.

[Marnieworld]

6. but but I thought that we should all be ok with being taped

I mean if you have nothing to hide right? :eyes:

[madfloridian]

15. Look up a story called "The Dirty South".

A google search should find it. It is an alarming story. I will see if I can find it if someone here keeps attacking Charlie.

[madfloridian]

16. From the LA City Beat: The Dirty South...written about Charlie months ago

http://www.lacitybeat.com/article.php?id=3881&IssueNum=157

The Dirty South
Down in Florida, where the next president will probably be selected, politics are as loose and corrupt as ever

~ By ANDREW GUMBEL ~

I think some here in this thread need to read it and retract or apologize.

[MADem]

21. Give people a taste, the dialuppers don't always click

Over in Florida, where the politics are almost invariably lousier, no such indignity has been spared a state assembly candidate by the name of Charlie Grapski. Grapski, an energetic proponent of ethics reform and a political scientist who teaches at the University of Florida in Gainesville, found himself under arrest last month for the heinous – heinous! – offense of tape-recording a conversation with a public official in the small nearby city of Alachua.

The tape recorder had been sitting openly on a table throughout the conversation, according to everyone present in the room, and did not appear to cause undue concern to the official, City Manager Clovis Watson, even after he acknowledged it. No matter: When Grapski returned to City Hall a few days later, he was slapped in handcuffs by three police officers summoned by Watson, told he would face third-degree felony charges for taping Watson without his express consent...That’s a curious turn of events for a candidate for public office – at least one who did not, in fine Floridian fashion, get drunk in public, or crash his car into an elementary school playground, or get frisky with a dancer in a strip club. More curious still is the fact that Grapski’s main opponent for the state assembly seat, Bonnie Burgess, sits on the City Commission which has hiring and firing power over Watson.

Grapski has been railing for years against what he denounces as a good-ol’-boy network running Alachua, and has based his assembly campaign largely on his desire to open up its inner workings to public scrutiny and clearer ethical standards. In other words, his arrest looks like the worst kind of dirty politics: a piece of pure nastiness by a network of political operatives determined to prevent him from disturbing their cozy existence. Burgess denies any personal involvement in the decision to arrest Grapski. On the other hand, it is no secret that the people who made the arrest are all supporters of hers.

This, remember, is the state where the next presidential election is more than likely to be decided, as it was in 2000, so we all have a stake in its political practices being as clear and transparent as possible. This case, though, is very far from a confidence-builder. A month before his arrest, Grapski became suspicious of a local election in which a 39-year veteran on the Alachua City Commission, James Lewis, fell behind his unexpectedly strong reformist challenger in the precinct count, only to pull ahead again when absentee ballots were added to the total. The election canvassing board that counted the absentee ballots included Watson, an outspoken Lewis supporter, and Alachua’s mayor, Jean Calderwood, whose husband Hugh was Lewis’s campaign manager.

Grapski talked to several lower-income African American voters who had pitched up at City Hall the day before the election to pay their utility bills, only to find themselves sweet-talked into filling out an absentee ballot there and then. Grapski alleges that the handling of their absentee ballots violated numerous rules concerning ballot secrecy and proper procedure. He also alleges that Watson and the deputy city clerk gave completely inappropriate – and illegal – advice to voters telling them to mark their ballots for James Lewis.

All that remains to be proven in court. .....

It's not enough to get mad, ya gotta state your case in return!

[madfloridian]

24. Thanks, I just posted some below.

:hi:

[MADem]

26. It never hurts!

When I had dialup, I appreciated the snippets. I hated clicking on some obtuse link that took an hour to load and then ended up being total shite. I try to remember how I felt back then, it did annoy me mightily!

Anyway, your boy seems to be getting a bum rap, or maybe the poster who didn't like him has him confused with someone else (or maybe he swiped the guy's girlfriend, or something!!!).

[DoYouEverWonder]

55. I have no personal grip with this fellow

I just hate to see honest people get hurt hitching their wagon to his crap and that is all this fellow how ever offered is crap.

He goes after people just to get his name in the press, then he creates a big drama pitting people against each other, and then cries to the world how unjustly he is being treated. Maybe is he didn't act like such a jerk all the time, he could get what he wants, whatever that happens to be at any given moment.

[w4rma]

66. Then why are you acting as if you have a "personal gripe with" him? (nt)

[madfloridian]

20. This blog has kept up with Charlie, as have others.

There is an Alachua Watch site there. If you attack Charlie, you need to have your facts on hand.

http://howardempowered.blogspot.com/

[DoYouEverWonder]

38. You should read some of his students comments

http://www.ratemyprofessors.com/ShowRatings.jsp?tid=210578

I know this doesn't have anything to do directly with his current situation but the comments give a taste of the caliber of person we are dealing with here.

[madfloridian]

41. I taught in Florida....I don't want to read them.

I know what Florida has become. Your posts do not put us in a good light either.

[DoYouEverWonder]

43. Well since you're convinced

that Alachua County is the hotbed of corruption, I'm obviously not going to convince you otherwise.

All I can say is remember Bev Harris. We all thought she was great too.

[madfloridian]

44. Stop comparing Charlie to Bev....that is horrible.

You really need to stop the attacks on him now.

[DoYouEverWonder]

47. I am posting an honest opinion

Sorry if you disapprove of the language I used, but around this town most people who are politically active and have been for years would probably agree with me.

[cui bono]

63. I missed the episode of When Bev Harris Goes Bad and didn't come up with

anything in google, can someone fill me in? Thanks.

[NobleCynic]

61. I read the comments

Looks like just a bunch of rich frat kids whining that they didn't get an easy "A". Minimal relevance.

[madfloridian]

23. 4 paragraphs from theThe Dirty South. Where's the apology or retraction?

Attacking those who have a mission to fix things in dirty little cities in the South is a sin. Someone here should apologize.

"Lewis’s opponent for the Alachua City Commission seat, Lewis Irby, was one such voice of restraint. (He was the first serious challenger Lewis had faced in years, if ever.) Grapski, meanwhile, has been something of a political bomb-thrower – suing the University of Florida president for alleged ethical lapses, suing an Alachua County Commissioner for yet more alleged ethical lapses and, now, suing several Alachua city officials for alleged election irregularities.

He also accuses Alachua of placing key land-use decisions on the so-called “consent agenda,” which means they get discussed and decided behind closed doors without public debate. “It’s a classic case of arrogance of power,” he says. “They act as judge and jury, they police themselves, and nobody holds them to account.”

As in so many election disputes around the country, the Alachua authorities have not released all the documents requested of them, raising suspicions that the records were either incomplete, shoddy, or don’t exist. The minutes of the vote count itself, for example, have been approved by the City Commission – sight unseen, according to one renegade commissioner – but remain unavailable to the public.

Instead, the mayor and other city officials, along with the local Republican Party, have invested considerable energy in smearing Grapski as a serial litigator (“Lawsuit Charlie,” they have dubbed him) and political extremist. Really, though, they are the extremists. Politicians who have their opponents arrested on bogus charges are not usually treated kindly by history. It may only be a small town in Florida, but the affront to democracy should affect us all."

[DoYouEverWonder]

48. Has anyone else tried to get these records?

Second, Charlie was arrested at a commission meeting?

Why did he need to record the meeting? Commission meetings are usually broadcast live on local cable access and anyone can record them in the comfort of their own home even. Plus the official recordings are supposed to be available to the public afterward. Every 'official' meeting I've been to in this county is tape recorded.

[madfloridian]

40. I apologize to Charlie.

He has been part of the Dean/DFA community for years. He is a valued part. He is one of those people who see things that need fixing, and he takes chances to fix them.

There is so much wrong with Florida that there is no way to measure the depth of the corruption.

Yet this thread has posts attacking him calling him an asshole, though he was just charged with felony wiretapping which it terribly scary and ridiculous.

Yet the posts attacking him stand still and stand proud, but if a word starts with tr...and ends with ll the poster is deleted.

So this is my tribute to Charlie who was there in 05 speaking in the company of other very good men who respect him.

http://sf4dean.com/gallery/Posted-by-David-A-Stevenson

And thanks to Raw Story for carrying this travesty.
http://www.rawstory.com/news/2006/Florida_activist_candidate_charged_with_felony_1017.html

[Renew Deal]

68. He was one of the organizers of the last Democracy Fest.

I remember talking to him there.

[mmonk]

45. So

government officials can wiretap us, but we can't wiretap government officials I see.

[madfloridian]

46. Even if you set the recorder in plain sight on the table.

And everyone knows it.

[DoYouEverWonder]

49. What's Charlie's record?

That he likes to sue people?

Has he ever actually won any of these cases?

BTW: He calls himself a political scientist. Where and when did he get his degree? Just curious.

[madfloridian]

50. Charlie's just an asshole to you...would not matter what I said.

People who call names often make themselves look bad.

I posted a tribute to him with other sources....I have even more...later.

[DoYouEverWonder]

51. I asked a direct question

What has Charlie done other then sue people and what cases has he won?

[liquiduniverse]

70. Actually he has won a lawsuit...

It was a fairly significant one regarding Florida Blue Key slandering him. FBK is a leadership group at UF. Many of Florida's big name politicians were originally FBK members back when they were in college.

http://www.alligator.org/edit/issues/98-sprg/980420/b01fbk.htm

I know it was a while ago, but I would think that you would have heard about this suit in the Gainesville area. It was front page news there for quite a while, and even got some national attention.

[cui bono]

64. Why does he need a degree to be a political scientist?

[Gabi Hayes]

56. how's that thing go? "First, they came for the assholes....."

KR

[madfloridian]

57. Thank you. Well said.

I posted something about this in my journal. Sometimes assholes really do help us bring change. Sometimes being nice just does nothing...so I posted this. I think it is way way back on page 4 already...but it was sincere. I am adding some more to it in a minute.

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/madfloridian

[DoYouEverWonder]

58. Change what?

What is Charlie's mission other then to file frivilous law suits and to get attention?

Since Charlie has become a 'political activist' what has he accomplish, except to stir up trouble over something that wasn't an issue to begin with?

Is there suddenly some conspiracy not to allow citizens in Alachua County access to public information? Or is Charlie the only one having a problem?

One more time, he is a distraction and a waste of time. There are much more important things for people to focus their limited time and energy on with only three weeks to go before the election.

[cui bono]

62. Well you haven't convinced me at all. None of your "arguments" hold water

To argue that all he's done is file lawsuits isn't substantive. What's wrong with that? So what if you think they are frivolous? Clearly the other people posting here do not. So what if he hasn't won a lawsuit? Perhaps that is indication that his lawsuits are necessary.

If you want to sway someone you really need to come up with what made his lawsuits frivolous and why you think he's an asshole. So far you haven't begun to make a case imho, and from what I've read I say "go Charlie!"

[Canuckistanian]

65. I can see the point even if it's not coming through clearly

Sometimes, there ARE people in a movement or political group who, by trying too hard, by not consulting with his/her peers, just make things worse for a cause.

And they do that by attracting negative attention, providing fodder for enemies and just wasting the energies and time of well-meaning people.

This is what Bev did, although she did it on a far grander scale.

Showboating, grandstanding, provocations or the occasional step too far into the tasteless or ludicrous will get you a reputation, all right. At the cost of distracting from your message.