VOTE ON ELECTION DAY NOV 7, NOT EARLY - MARK CRISPIN MILLER

[LSK]

Alright, let's pretend, just for the sake of argument, that the Repubs are right, as are most Democrats and the media, when they insist that the election was legitimate. Fine.

We're going to give them one more chance to hold elections that are credible. We're going to throw ourselves into this next election, getting out as many voters as we can.
The turn-out will be huge, especially by the standard of off-year elections. Americans will come out to vote, in part, as a way to take a stand on behalf of free and fair elections.

No early voting, and as little absentee voting as possible. The point here is to have a massive turn-out on Election Day.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-crispin-miller/my-advice-for-this-years_b_23996.html

Please please please do not vote early, do not vote absentee, please SHOW UP ON NOVEMBER 7.

[Marnieworld]

1. What choice do we have?

Of course we should vote. I am very skeptical that the Dems can ever (due to fraud) get any power. But I'm not exactly going to stay home. We haven't solved the problem yet but staying home doesn't either.

[LSK]

2. read the last sentence

Please please please do not vote early, do not vote absentee, please SHOW UP ON NOVEMBER 7.

[Marnieworld]

3. Aye Aye!

Vote after work. Got it! :patriot:

[Marnieworld]

4. dupe

:patriot:

[elocs]

15. For all who say to wait and vote on election day,

there are just as many who have said to vote absentee, to vote early. ????????????????

[LSK]

17. I know but MCM has written THE BOOK on election fraud

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0465045790.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_V56230609_.jpg


http://www.amazon.com/Fooled-Again-Mark-Crispin-Miller/dp/0465045790/sr=1-1/qid=1161126204/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/102-8244411-0310516?ie=UTF8&s=books

[orleans]

26. loved the book, met him in warrenville (or wherever it was)

and i agree completely--if you're in town, if you can do it then vote in person.

[LSK]

47. I met him in Warrenville too

The same day you were there.

[Raksha]

31. I know...we're getting two completely contradictory messages

about what to do on (or before) election day. It's confusing and frustrating. I tend to trust MCM though because I've read his book on election fraud.

[kimmerspixelated]

66. Question...

Why does the time of day have to do with it? Unclear on why.

[geiger]

5. seriously, this is the opposite of what I thought, but if Mark Crispin Mil

ler says it, I would do what he says.

[LSK]

7. the idea is to get a huge turnout at the polls

Something that the MSM talking heads would commment on. So they cant say how it was a low turnout and thats how the GOP stole it.

[Tiggeroshii]

9. The turnout in 04

was the largest in almost any election, most likely because of the unusally large Democratic turnout. However, the MSM and talking heads say that the large turnout is why the Republicans won. I bet if they win this election and it is a huge turnout, that will be their excuse again.

[LSK]

11. they cant, because every story this year is about low GOP turnout

And how the base is turned off because of the Foley thing and other scandals.

[Stevepol]

33. But total vote is what determines "turn out" isn't it?

What difference does it make whether you vote absentee or at the polls? You're still "turning out" for the election and the pundits will still quote that number when they muse on the election.

I don't get MCM's point here. And with an absentee vote you're guaranteed a piece of paper as well.

I'm going to vote absentee.

[nam78_two]

6. This makes a lot of sense to me-recommended/nt

[LSK]

8. I heard him say it on CSPAN the other day

And then I saw a post about someone voting early and I was like "NOOOOOOO".

I wish I could find more links from him suggesting this idea.

[nam78_two]

12. Well this made it the GP-keeping it kicked

:toast:

[blm]

10. I think it's races we ignore that they intend to steal - like in SC and TX

where they control the entire state infrastructure and election process.

[elehhhhna]

44. Don't you worry, we've got TX District 22 covered.

[doc03]

13. I voted today in Ohio, the reason was they announced

last month they were closing many of our polling places and it was going to be a mess on election day. The Board of Elections and the Democratic Party were both telling us to vote absentee. Since then a petition was started and the poll closings were challenged in court and several were reopened. Today I received my absentee ballot and voted.

on edit: I constantly see people complaining about the Diebold voting machines being fixed and our vote won't be counted. I voted absentee and it was a paper ballot I assume that's what these people want then they tell me not to vote WTF.

[galloglas]

20. Think about it...

When you vote absentee, how do you know if your vote gets counted??

Or, whether that paper ballot of yours is punched into a Diebold machine?

Or whether it is counted at all (Ohio still has some uncounted votes).

M. C. Miller is making this point: The ONLY thing that will show an overwhelming victory by the Democrats--- read it again, "The ONLY thing that will show an overwhelming victory by the Democrats" is too have the polls swamped by Democratic Voters on election day.

That will be on film and the MSM. There has to be enough of that to discount the "Oh, the Dems didn't GOTV! That's why they lost!" if the polls are not packed.

Like the "Dean Scream", it would only take one shot of empty polls all over Ohio to spin off a story that would make another Electoral Theft seem plausible.

[DTinAZ]

62. Can you wait and hand-deliver your absentee ballot?

That's legal here in AZ...we can drop them off on election day in any precinct in our county, and that way, it won't get "lost in the mail."

DT

[doc03]

70. Hand delivered today, as far as counting the absentee

votes they must be counted by 730pm on election day. Problem is they are
counted by a Diebold optical scanner. If you vote on election day you
vote on a Diebold touch screen. As far as making a showing on election day I think that is ridiculous, how do they know they are Democrats voting and not Republicans in the first place. We had a record turnout in Ohio in 2004 and GWB is still there.

[DTinAZ]

73. Two words: exit polls n/t

[doc03]

75. Didn't the exit polls in both Florida in 2000 and in

Ohio in 2004 show GWB behind?

[DTinAZ]

76. Yes, which is why we need MORE dems at the polls!

Not less! They were able to LIE about the exit polls vs. the fraudulent vote totals because the differences weren't extreme enough to get the attention of the brain-dead media. We need to overwhelm the precints with democratic voters...not stay away and "mail it in."

I've heard speculation in progressive talk shows (even in the excellent special put on yesterday by Peter B. Collins) that there wouldn't be exit polling this year, but that was uninformed blather. Take a look here:

http://www.exit-poll.net

That's the site that details the planned polling by Edison Media Research and Mitofsky International on behalf of the National Election Pool. Be sure to look at the state races they're covering:

http://www.exit-poll.net/election-night/stateraces.html

DT

[central scrutinizer]

14. doesn't apply here - Oregon

we vote by mail - there are no polling places.

[BootinUp]

16. This makes absolutely no sense.

If the polls are crowded in the evening, people will be discouraged from voting.

[TexasLinda]

28. You are absolutely right

If you want to increase voter turnout you should encourage early voting. We need people to actually vote, not stand in long lines on election day, smile for the cameras, get discouraged, then go home without voting. Early voting counts towards election turnout.

[tinfoilinfor2005]

51. I'm with you.

It hasn't been a problem where I live, but I heard about the hours long lines in some precincts up north. If it were me up there I would vote early. Matter of fact, I did.

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

34. I used to like Mark Crispin Miller.

His book, "The Bush Dyslexicon," was, to me at least, one of the best books about Bush's relationship with the media, and the problems of the media itself. But he seems to have gone off the deep end some time ago.

[librechik]

48. kick --he is so right

:kick:

absentee ballots don't get counted unless the vote is close. We need to make a showing at the polls, like a big peace demonstration, or Woodstock.

[DTinAZ]

58. It makes a LOT of sense

For example, if you don't show up at the polls, you won't get included in exit poll stats. Also they can easily "lose" any ballots that are mailed in, and can electronically diddle with those done early at designated early voting sites on those f***ing machines.

However, your scenario of people overwhelming poll sites is also a concern, but there's a compromise position that I've heard mentioned. You can request an early (absentee) ballot and then physically take it to the polling place on election day. Then it won't get "lost in the mail" and you'll be included in any type of election polling. You shouldn't have to wait in line to drop the ballot off.

DT

[Kixel]

18. Sorry...

Election day is too busy for some of us-GOTV won't happen on it's own!

[Pastiche423]

19. Sorry, but I will be voting early

My Voter's Pamphlet has already arrived, which means I'll get my PAPER BALLOT next week. I usually hand my PAPER BALLOT in about a week before election day.

That's how it's done in Oregon.

[LSK]

21. Kick

[Connie_Corleone]

22. I just read one post that said vote absentee...

Now I'm reading this post to NOT vote absentee!

Well, I'm voting in person on election day because I like going to the polling place and voting.

We have optical scan in my county in Ohio.

[glitch]

25. In my perfect world you could take your absentee ballot to the polls and

drop it in a locked box on election day. That way, you get to fill out your ballot in your own time and get to answer exit polls and feel the participation.

Also, your paper ballot doesn't get "lost" in the mail, or discarded because you didn't have enough postage.

[DTinAZ]

59. That "perfect world" exists

I'm not sure if the laws about this are nation-wide or not, but in AZ you can drop off your early ballot at *any* polling place on elction day.

DT

[glitch]

65. That's excellent. It would be a good thing to make universal.

It won't eliminate all their fraud, but it would cut off a couple avenues.

[EFerrari]

27. You can walk your ballot in on Election Day. I do it every year. nt

[glitch]

38. I wonder if that is true everywhere? I have been voting absentee for years

here in Seattle but 2004 I was a poll watcher. I can't remember if I saw a locked box for drop-offs here or not. I remember we had them in the Bay Area. My guess is it would be inconsistent (based on the other inconsistencies precinct to precinct, city to city, state to state).
This would be a simple, cheap and effective way to avoid two of the vote suppression techniques: dumping ballots due to insufficient postage and putting in too few machines to create long lines.

[EFerrari]

40. That's a good point. One would need to double check first.

[greeneyedboy]

23. depends on who your county & state officials are

and how trustworthy the process is.

i am permanent absentee voter, and will vote early in my safely blue area, so i can have free time on 11/7 to GOTV.

MCM has done a lot of fine research, but his doom & gloom tone IMO is not very helpful--just makes people more passive.

[glitch]

24. Lots of early negative responses on this Huffington Post OP.

Now who would be interested in discourageing MCM's advice? :evilgrin:

[TexasLinda]

29. Certainly not the Republicans

They'll be voting early.

[elehhhhna]

45. and often.

[OnTheOtherHand]

36. anyone who thinks it is wrong?

This "if you disagree, you're probably an agent" innuendo is getting reeeeally old. My thought is, if you don't have a substantive argument, don't post. That would be more helpful, IMO.

But anyone who is prepared to stick out the possible lines might as well vote on Election Day. Apart from any speculation about whether absentee votes are counted, it provides the basis for some good footage.

[diva77]

30. Reasons to AVOID Early Voting

In this case, Early Voting is DISTINCT from Absentee Voting -- Early Voting is at a polling site; absentee is done via mail.

Elections officials claim in large counties with Early Voting that it cannot be done with paper ballots -- too many ballot types to deal with. So they use touchscreens (or similar). Usually the results are not sorted or posted according to precinct -- bad idea -- irregularities could go undetected. Also,, due to bad printers for machines with VVPAT, there really is not an accurate paper trail even if everything were to be on the up 'n up with the machines (yah, right). In some cases, no chain of custody is spelled out either.

If you absolutely must vote before election day, then do it via absentee ballot, BUT only if your elections official has a way to acknowledge that your vote was counted and the results are posted according to precinct and that there is significant manual audit.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=203x452859#452861

[Emit]

32. Thank you for this.

As a District Coordinator, most of my energies will focus on E-Day simply because I do not have a large enough volunteer force to GOTV for early voting. But, the Dem Party here is really pushing early voting. An examination of polling places for early voting in my District shows that in the lower-income, predominantly Democratic precincts, registered voters benefit little from early voting, as the polling locations are further away from them than their E-Day polling locations. So, thankfully, for the precincts we want most to encourage to vote, those where voters vote for Democrats IF you can get them to the polls, our GOTV will happen on E-Day.

This just blows my mind but your explanation makes perfect sense. And I knew this from having voted early in past elections, all the while wondering how they kept track of the data of voters in specific precincts.

I wonder if I should put a stop to handing out all the "Vote Early" cards in my other area precincts?

[foo_bar]

35. MCM's job is to promote MCM, not to come up with reasonable strategies

And so, when the Repubs win yet again, surprisingly maintaining their control of Congress, notwithstanding their subterranean approval ratings, we will be prepared to note all the anomalies and improprieties -- and, at long last, to SAY NO. As this will have been the fourth election cycle ravaged by Bush/Cheney since 2000, Americans must finally go Ukrainian, and just refuse to acknowledge BushCo's latest "win."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/mark-crispin-miller/my-advice-for-this-years_b_23996.html

Gee, that's hopeful. It's almost like MCM wrote a book titled 'Why They’ll Steal the Next One, Too'.

But seriously, losing the election is the only way Mr. Miller sells any more books with this title, so you can understand his trepidation. But proposing long lines and long waits on election day for some photo opportunity is beyond ludicrous (as though Dem voters can be picked out on camera and extrapolated to the entire country), it's actually a recipe for failure (the same failure he solemnly predicts, "when the Repubs win yet again" not "if").

[OnTheOtherHand]

37. I guess it's a reasonable inference from bogus facts

Let's be fair: the subtitle of MCM's book ends with "(Unless We Stop Them)." So, his scenario is that the Republicans inevitably steal the election, and then we go out with... whatever it is that Americans go out with, in order to reclaim our democracy.

Unfortunately, the guy never got around to proving that "the right stole the 2004 election" (perhaps depending on what one means by "stole"), and so he has left a lot of us back at home rolling our eyes. Too many people spending too much time talking to themselves.

Upthread I'm more upbeat about his advice about voting on election day than you are, contingent on the assumption that not many people will actually take it, so it doesn't matter much. Some DUers are actually stressing out about the decision when to vote. Is it rational to vote on election day because there might be a camera? not especially, but it could be worse.

And the absolute certainty that the Republicans can steal the election at will is like a cargo cult in reverse*. The folks who somehow find this prospect inspirational really ought to huddle somewhere and find a way of talking about it without royally POing the rest of us, in my opinion.

*EDIT TO ADD: no, wait, maybe it's more like a cargo cult not in reverse. Wow, my anthro is rusty. Hmm....

[davekriss]

41. You honestly believe...

...that Professor Miller is only interested in selling books? You think he is that craven and that there is no substance to his argument that the Republican machine, using election-stealing techniques old and new, resulting in theft of three elections (2000-2002 Georgia-2004)?

Interesting.

Good, then; nothing to worry about when I go to the polls in November. I can rest assured that, if Republicans hold the House, it will be because of an election eve reversal of basically flawed pre-election polling. Again.

[foo_bar]

52. Monsieur Miller has some issues with fact checking

If my memory of Professor OnTheOtherHand serves. Whether I find him "craven", there is substance to many of his arguments; announcing that we've already lost isn't one of them.

[SammyWinstonJack]

39. I was going to vote early but now I will wait for Nov. 7th.

[npincus]

42. weren't garbage cans full of paper ballots found in FLa. in 2000?

or one garbage can?

[1932]

43. I'd watch American Blackout before taking this advice.

Long lines in Ohio was one of the many ways Democrats were disenfranchised in '04.

The film (which you can get from Netflix) shows that Ohio new registration was up in many heavily Democratic districts so they moved voting machines to the suburbs. The film shows no lines in white, Republican precincts, and long long long lines in black, Democratic precincts.

If you life in heavily white, Republican district, by all means, go in person and slow up the process. But if you live in a heavily democratic precinct and you suspect that there will be lines, please think twice before you decide to go clog up the system.

When there are long lines, hourly workers and people who get fired if they take more than an hour for lunch, and people who don't have a lot of time between their two jobs don't stand in line. Long lines hurt democrats.

[diva77]

46. If this is your only choice for this election, then by all means

vote early. It's certainly FAR better than not voting at all. I don't think there can be a blanket statement for all counties to call for an end to Early Voting. It depends how Early Voting is done (see post #30).

It seems like the long term vision for Early Voting is consolidation of polling places -- very bad idea. So I wouldn't support it - I'd try to improve circumstances for election day voting (ideally hand counted paper ballots at the precinct level).

[disndat]

49. MCM's point

One reason to vote in person is to report strong exit polls for the Democrats, so the MSM cannot report otherwise, as they did in '00 and '04.

[foo_bar]

50. didn't we have "strong exit polls" in '04?

Winning an exit poll doesn't change a thing if we lose the election. Neither does having lots of (presumedly Democratic) folks on camera; generating long lines at underserviced precincts might, however, tilt the election in the repub's favor.

[Clark2008]

53. It really doesn't matter here: early voting is done on the same

machines as regular voting: Hart Interactive (not the worst of the stupid black boxes, but still a black box).

The ONLY way to receive an absentee ballot is to PROVE you'll be out of town or are otherwise incapacitated. They make it difficult because we have a very, very long early voting period - more than two weeks (in fact, it started today).

I'll be voting this weekend.

[Dob Bole]

54. Sorry, but I'll be out of my district on Nov. 7

and I'm not going to take any chances.

DB

[womanofthehills]

55. NM Dem party told me to vote absentee

It's all so confusing because we really don't know what is better.

[DTinAZ]

61. AZ Dem party is doing that also

They're simply trying to GOTV...their motives aren't necessarily related to election fraud/stealing. Here in AZ, you can drop off your early ballot at any polling place in our county on election day. Isn't that an option for you?

DT

[Vincardog]

56. Sorry MCM I have to vote early. That way I can be an election judge

And make sure that as many voters as possible get to exercise their right to vote.

[DTinAZ]

60. Take your ballot with you

Here in AZ, you can drop off your early ballot at any polling place in our county on election day. Isn't that an option for you?

DT

[Vincardog]

71. No in TX they make it very difficult. They are forcing us to vote Black Box

because they "Can't afford to print ballots".

[progressoid]

57. NO - not according to the latest at DailyKos

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/18/85915/109

VOTE EARLY OR YOU MAY NOT GET A CHANCE.

[LSK]

63. KOS does not believe the 04 election was stolen

[progressoid]

68. The post of KOS is about voter purging. Voters won't find out until

election day that they are no longer registered if they follow the advice of Miller.

KOS' opinion of 2004 is immaterial. If voters wait, it will seriously damage us.

[RB TexLa]

64. Always vote absentee or early, you may die before election day n/t

[elocs]

67. And I thought that "I" was cynical.

It reminds me of the part in the movie "When Harry Met Sally" when Harry claimed he had a dark side because he would read the last chapter of a mystery first in case he died before he finished the book.

[mmonk]

69. Hhhhhmmmm

Governor Easley (Democrat) left a message on my voice mail saying to vote early. So, what's it gonna be for me?

[mnhtnbb]

72. Why, so you can stand in line for 10 hours?

[Ravy]

74. Bad idea.

Making lines in Democratic precincts longer. I guess if I was in a Republican precinct, I could see the benefit of taking forever behind the curtain, but those precincts will have plenty of voting machines so it won't make much difference even then.