Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

They Thought They Were Free..... This must be Posted Yet Again

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 07:22 PM
Original message
They Thought They Were Free..... This must be Posted Yet Again
A picture of the future of the United States of America....:cry:

But Then It Was Too Late

"What no one seemed to notice," said a colleague of mine, a philologist, "was the ever widening gap, after1933,between the government and the people. Just think how very wide this gap was to begin with, here in Germany. And it became always wider. You know it doesn't make people close to their government to be told that this is a people's government, a true democracy, or to be enrolled in civilian defense, or even to vote. All this has little, really nothing to do with knowing one is governing.

What happened here was the gradual habituation of the people, little by little, to being governed by surprise; to receiving decisions deliberated in secret; to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security. And their sense of identification with Hitler, their trust in him, made it easier to widen this gap and reassured those who would otherwise have worried about it.

"This separation of government from people, this widening of the gap, took place so gradually and so insensibly, each step disguised (perhaps not even intentionally) as a temporary emergency measure or associated with true patriotic allegiance or with real social purposes. And all the crises and reforms (real reforms, too) so occupied the people that they did not see the slow motion underneath, of the whole process of government growing remoter and remoter.


<snip>

"To live in this process is absolutely not to be able to notice it - please try to believe me - unless one has a much greater degree of political awareness, acuity, than most of us had ever had occasion to develop. Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, "regretted," that, unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning, unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle, what all these "little measures" that no "patriotic German" could resent must some day lead to, one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing. One day it is over his head.

<snip>

Pastor Niemoller spoke for the thousands and thousands of men like me when he spoke (too modestly of himself) and said that, when the Nazis attacked the Communists, he was a little uneasy, but, after all, he was not a Communist, and so he did nothing: and then they attacked the Socialists, and he was a little uneasier, but, still, he was not a Socialist, and he did nothing; and then the schools, the press, the Jews, and so on, and he was always uneasier, but still he did nothing. And then they attacked the Church, and he was a Churchman, and he did something - but then it was too late."

"Yes," I said.

<snip>


"And one day, too late, your principles, if you were ever sensible of them, all rush in upon you. The burden of self deception has grown too heavy, and some minor incident, in my case my little boy, hardly more than a baby, saying "Jew swine," collapses it all at once, and you see that everything, everything, has changed and changed completely under your nose. The world you live in – your nation, your people – is not the world you were in at all. The forms are all there, all untouched, all reassuring, the houses, the shops, the jobs, the mealtimes, the visits, the concerts, the cinema, the holidays. But the spirit, which you never noticed because you made the lifelong mistake of identifying it with the forms, is changed. Now you live in a world of hate and fear, and the people who hate and fear do not even know it themselves; when everyone is transformed, no one is transformed. Now you live in a system which rules without responsibility even to God. The system itself could not have intended this in the beginning, but in order to sustain itself it was compelled to go all the way.

"You have gone almost all the way yourself. Life is a continuing process, a flow, not a succession of acts and events at all. It has flowed to a new level, carrying you with it, without any effort on your part. On this new level you live, you have been living more comfortably every day, with new morals, new principles. You have accepted things you would not have accepted five years ago, a year ago, things that your father, even in Germany, could not have imagined.

"Suddenly it all comes down, all at once. You see what you are, what you have done, or, more accurately, what you haven't done ( for that was all that was required of most of us: that we do nothing). You remember those early meetings of your department in the university when, if one had stood, others would have stood, perhaps, but no one stood. A small matter, a matter of hiring this man or that, and you hired this one rather than that. You remember everything now, and your heart breaks. Too late. You are compromised beyond repair.

"What then? You must then shoot yourself. A few did. Or "adjust" your principles. Many tried, and some, I suppose, succeeded; not I, however. Or learn to live the rest of your life with your shame. This last is the nearest there is, under the circumstances, to heroism: shame. Many Germans became this poor kind of hero, many more, I think, than the world knows or cares to know."

I said nothing. I thought of nothing to say.

<snip>


http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free_nn4.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 07:28 PM
Response to Original message
1. I dont know if you picked up on this from when I posted it a few weeks ago
but I'm glad you keep bringing this link to the fore.

Thanks -- k&r
sw
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 08:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
6. The times are so eerily similar that I cannot get it out of my mind..
I have also posted it before.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
scarletwoman Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 08:45 PM
Response to Reply #6
9. Yes, I saw the last time you posted it (and k&r'd it).
I wondered at the time if you had seen my posting of the same link about 2 weeks prior: Good time to repost this: "They Thought They Were Free"

If not -- well, great minds think alike, yes?

sw
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 10:03 PM
Response to Reply #9
12. Funny. I had posted it about the same time. I guess great minds
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bigbrother05 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 07:36 PM
Response to Original message
2. So, who is going to save us?
I think the sheeple outnumber us.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 02:42 PM
Response to Reply #2
27. Though I'm sure your question is rhetorical
the answer is that we are, you and I and the millions of others populating the various left blogospheres.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
dave420 Donating Member (141 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #27
29. Assuming that
might be a massive, massive mistake.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
AwakeAtLast Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 07:39 PM
Response to Original message
3. K & R for you.
This may need to be posted weekly now the way our administration is handling things. :(

Good post. :hi:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. I agree.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
nam78_two Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 08:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. k&r
:(
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bonito Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 08:21 PM
Response to Original message
5.  We don't have to change what is in the heart of people
We only have to bring it to the surface, it's an easier task than those who work bury it.

If only more people knew that they have the power to bring peace to our world.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 08:34 PM
Response to Reply #5
8. I hope that you are right.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
druidity33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 07:27 AM
Response to Reply #5
17. when Yoda speaks... listen. n/t
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tom_paine Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 08:54 PM
Response to Original message
10. Quite relevant, isn't it?
I have been reading this again and again for these past six years while outside I lived it...as the farmer comes out every morning to gaze upon the corn.

And yes, it has happened here. The only part of the tale not yet told is how it ends. How bad will it get by the end?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 09:24 PM
Response to Original message
11. This has been posted many times of recent but it needs to be
My sig line from 2004: It's not 2004, it's not even 1984, it is 1934 and I am NOT a good German.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 10:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
13. A friend of mine had told me about that ancient Chinese curse many
years ago. I am only recently understanding the full meaning of it.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grizmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:44 AM
Response to Reply #11
21. great sig line
it's one of my favorite quotes.

When I want to give someone young a bit of advice/blessing, I tell them "May you live in uninteresting times".

It always leads to the obvious question and I get to explain the chinese curse to them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 02:39 PM
Response to Reply #21
25. Yeah, I would love some of them uninteresting times
both in my personal life and also in politics. There was a time, before this misadministration when I voted but that was pretty much it. I didn't keep up with politics much but as you can see from my profile, I spend an inordinate amount of time watching politics and my previous sigline says why. I was traumatized by 9/11 (who wasn't) but even more traumatized by the surge of dangerous nationalism I saw all around me in the months after and the shameless way this misadminstration used it to their political advantage.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #25
31. Wouldn't it be wonderful to live in nice boring, peaceful times?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ogsball Donating Member (282 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 10:42 PM
Response to Original message
14. Will the next Holocaust have the US. . .
. . . killing millions of Muslims? Maybe it's already started?

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KAZ Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Oct-17-06 10:47 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. 600,000 from the war, plus what the sanctions
did throughout the '90s. Same result, different oven.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Senator Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 02:44 AM
Response to Original message
16. k&r
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lazyriver Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
18. Thanks for putting this back up
I've seen it before but was actually looking for it. I have been feeding a freeper I work with a steady diet of information from sources other than Faux News, RW talk radio, and freeper sites with hopes I can somehow get through to him. He's a god-fearing, bible thumping evangelical and the Foley scandal and Kuo book revelations put a chink in his armor. He finally started listening to me a little bit as his faith in republicans has been shaken. I have been trying to take advantage with information I believe will resonate with him.

This piece will work quite nicely.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
grizmaster Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:40 AM
Response to Original message
19. somewhere Godwin is rolling over in his grave
as fascism takes root again


From the link...

"Each act, each occasion, is worse than the last, but only a little worse. You wait for the next and the next. You wait for the one great shocking occasion, thinking that others, when such a shock comes, will join with you in resisting somehow."

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tavalon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 02:40 PM
Response to Reply #19
26. I consider yesterdays signing of the death of Habeus Corpus
to be a big step toward fascism. A huge step actually.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lonestarnot Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:42 AM
Response to Original message
20. Silence kills.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Kurovski Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 12:07 PM
Response to Original message
22. Keep posting it, and I'll keep on with the "K&R."
Many of us will.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
BrklynLiberal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 08:53 PM
Response to Reply #22
30. I certainly will do that..... Until it is no longer necessary.
:thumbsup:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
pberq Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 12:16 PM
Response to Original message
23. Kick & Nominated
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IMAMiscreant Donating Member (16 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 12:27 PM
Response to Original message
24. I just acquired the book
and I'm looking forward to reading it then passing it along to my 'unenlightened' sister. I'm hoping that the blinders she wears might be diminished.:think:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Solly Mack Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Oct-18-06 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
28. I often wonder how many people have read
"They Thought They Were Free" and never once applied it to themselves.

How many read it and think "Not me", or "Not us" ...or even "Not us - yet"

When it is us - now.

It has happened here. It didn't just happen overnight. It didn't just happen one day in 2000.
Bush didn't rise up from nothing - he was a long time in the making. That in order for Bush to take the oval office, conditions had to be ripe before election day in order to secure selection day.

Long before Bush came to office there was a prevailing attitude in America that said, "to believing that the situation was so complicated that the government had to act on information which the people could not understand, or so dangerous that, even if he people could understand it, it could not be released because of national security." An attitude that promoted the idea that government knew best and that government could be trusted. And just who promoted that thinking? Why government , of course.

Doesn't matter that everyone didn't fall for it...everyone never does...but enough did.

Bush and his cronies exploited a system already primed for the taking.

That doesn't make Bush any less guilty....but it does show how the people have contributed to their own oppression.

Government can't be trusted. Not even in America. But people will read "They Thought They Were Free", lament what they've lost and what the nation has become, and still go on to believe they can create a government that can be trusted. And we'll end up back here again one day because they do.

Government must be watched closely at every turn. No, we can't afford to ever satisfy ourselves with the thinking that our representatives have the people's best interests at heart. We must watchdog government. We must hold them accountable at every turn. When they tell us anything...doubt it completely until proven otherwise.Make them earn our vote. Make them earn their job as representatives. And if they can't - throw them out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Jcrowley Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Oct-20-06 06:26 PM
Response to Original message
32. Bush Guts Posse Comitatus, Grabs National Guard!
HUGE! Bush Guts Posse Comitatus, Grabs National Guard!
by Major Danby
Wed Oct 18, 2006 at 06:10:33 PM PDT

<snip>

"If I told you that Congress was considering passing a law that gives the President -- this President -- the power, in the event of any "disaster, accident, or catastrophe" that he deems to require it, to:

- involuntarily take National Guard troops from State A and
- require them to work in State B for up to a year,
- in law enforcement rather than just traditional areas like disaster relief,
- over the objection of both state's governors

would you believe it?  Probably not.  And you'd be right.  Congress is not considering such a bill.

IT ALREADY PASSED SUCH A BILL THREE WEEKS AGO!

Follow me over the jump.  Read it, weep, and prepare to pass on the word - and to act."

http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2006/10/18/211033/23
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Apr 19th 2024, 05:26 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion (01/01/06 through 01/22/2007) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC