How many here think bushitler is a real Christian? Please note * this is

[lonestarnot]

not a judgment, just your opinion, we'll leave the judging to God when the time comes.

[fooj]

1. Bush is NO Christian.

Peace.

[Name removed]

56. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lonestarnot]

105. One has nothing to do with the other.

and I would know :evilgrin:

[Name removed]

110. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lonestarnot]

123. Christianity is responsible for qazzilions of deaths throughout history,

so who could it be that Christianity means "good?"

[beam me up scottie]

128. It's in the dictionary and it's repeated CONSTANTLY on DU.

Please don't pretend that's not why you started this thread.

[lonestarnot]

131. Are you searching for my motivation for starting this thread?

Why didn't you just ask.

[beam me up scottie]

134. Your motivation was the thread you posted in this morning. The bigoted one

that infers christians are morally superior by saying Bush isn't "good" enough to belong to your faith.

I don't need to ask.

[lonestarnot]

And which one was that? I need a hint as to my bigotry. I seeth with it.

[Name removed]

138. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lonestarnot]

141. ok I'm waiting, too lazy to search.

[Name removed]

147. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

151. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[beam me up scottie]

162. You don't even know who Richard Dawkins is?

Well, that explains a lot.

Hint: He's not a pro-wrestler or Nascar driver.

[lonestarnot]

170. Too many people on earth to know them all.

Since you hinted that he's not a pro-wrestler or nascar driver does that mean he/she is a lib?

[lonestarnot]

202. heh heh heh

[alarcojon]

205. No need to gloat

if you ask me

[lonestarnot]

209. heh heh heh

[lonestarnot]

203. heh heh heh

[lonestarnot]

104. Peace fooj!

[Mass]

2. Not being Christian is not a bad thing.

[lonestarnot]

6. That was neither part of the question, nor was it implied!

[hiley]

24. no but lying about it and

using "Christianity" is.

[fooj]

46. Yep.

Peace.

[hiley]

124. bush could not be "christian"

cause he is a rat bastard, right fooj?

I love it when you call him a rat bastard, always makes me laugh!

[fooj]

130. Treasonous, rat bastard!

LOL!!:toast:

Peace.

[lonestarnot]

106. Are you saying all Christians are liars?

[hiley]

114. no not hardly

:eyes:

[hiley]

116. well, after I think about it

everyone lies sometime or another but that is not what I meant.
long day :shrug:

[lonestarnot]

120. Me toooo. Long busy day so it went by quickly.

[Name removed]

57. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Mass]

61. That was my first thought too.

[beam me up scottie]

66. Yeah, he must be christian.

:evilgrin:

[lonestarnot]

108. Are you saying all Christians are liars? I repeat ... Are you saying all

Christians are liars? :rofl:

[Name removed]

122. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lonestarnot]

129. Damn they did that quickly! I didn't even get to see it.

That is just not right.

[beam me up scottie]

137. Right, I can only imagine the outrage among DU christians.

Spare me.

[Zenlitened]

146. That is some classic shit! One for the ages:

Besides being inflammatory, this post strongly implies that theists are less intelligent than atheists. Please refrain from making this implication in the future.

:rofl:

[beam me up scottie]

149. ISN'T IT?

Get thee to the back of the bus.

[lonestarnot]

155. I call fowl bird!

[tocqueville]

3. define "real Christian" nt

[lonestarnot]

13. Believe that Jesus is God, and was born of a virgin birth and is the

sacrificial lamb for the evil sins of man for breaking the ten commandments, which were replaced by this sacrifice for mankind in total. (In a nutshell)

[Mass]

20. Still not sure why it is important to know whether he believes that

to know if he is a good president or even a good man.

I cannot answer your question, but my feeling is that he is none of the two things I listed and this is what I care about.

[lonestarnot]

81. I think it is important to know because he has many of the fundies

still supporting him.

[Mass]

85. I know plenty of people who believe what you said and are still

lousy people that I would not want as president. I am pretty sure Pat Buchanan believes that, for example.

As long as we will judge somebody for his beliefs and not his actions, this country will be in big trouble.

[lonestarnot]

94. Yes, but Buchanan was not supported, nor was an election fixed to hurd

him in as a wannabe president.

[Mass]

98. And?

You said that he was not a real Christian and then defined what you think a real Christian is. Nothing to do with what you are talking here.

I am not following where you are going. What has one to do with the other?

[lonestarnot]

156. No I was parroting the definition from the book.

I did not say he was not a "real" Christian, I said he professes to be "a" Christian, but I am of the opinion that he is not what he professes as every motivation I have evaluated is not the taste of which it is portrayed.

[tocqueville]

23. no Bush is not a catholic

leaves a lot of other variations on the same theme pretty empty

[lonestarnot]

82. so then your answer is no?

[tocqueville]

133. being a Catholic is not the definition of a Christian

you can go the page

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian

warning, the page has been vandalized

[beam me up scottie]

157. According to the christians where I live, catholics AREN'T christian.

They believe they're morally superior to catholics, muslims, jews, atheists and pretty much anyone who they don't consider to be their kind of christian.

Just like the christians on DU who try to claim bush is a non-believer.

[Hello_Kitty]

224. It's so funny, though

That many of these same Protestant evangelicals are just ECSTATIC to have 5 Catholics on the Supreme Court. Funny that. They band together as "Christians" when it's expedient for them to seize power but when it comes to the finer details of their dogma and whose dogma is going to prevail they break apart into bitterly warring factions. Wouldn't suprise me to see an ongoing religious conflict ala Northern Ireland at some point in this country. That theocracy they want so badly is going to backfire on them, bigtime.

[beam me up scottie]

30. How are you supposed to know if he believes Jesus is god?

Or the rest of that?

You can't know, all you have is his word, just like any other christian.

[lonestarnot]

83. I guess than leads one to opine about his actions then.

[beam me up scottie]

88. I thought you defined a christian as one who "Believe that Jesus is God,

and was born of a virgin birth and is the sacrificial lamb for the evil sins of man for breaking the ten commandments, which were replaced by this sacrifice for mankind in total. (In a nutshell)"

Now you're changing the rules?

[Zenlitened]

174. Where'd those goalposts go? They were here a second ago!

:rofl:

[beam me up scottie]

175. The same place as the tent stakes.

You know, the ones for the "big" tent?

What are you still doing on the bus?

Get off, we need the room for gay-hating biblical literalists.

[lonestarnot]

198. Are you a gay hater?

[Zenlitened]

207. That sort of name calling is just uncalled for.

Why would you accuse her of something like that?

[lonestarnot]

235. who her?

[lonestarnot]

196. I hate football! But you can play.

[hiley]

121. opine

lol!:rofl:
thanks for waking me up and making me laugh!

[Bellamia]

52. Not all "real" Christians........

believe the same things. Doctrines differ, but "by their fruits" you shall know them............so is Shrub a "real" Christian? I'd say no, not as evidenced by his actions.(fruits)

[lonestarnot]

109. Very logical thinking.

[tlsmith1963]

4. No

Because he swore on the bible when he was sworn into office that he would uphold the constitution, & it's obvious that he didn't mean it. A true Christian would never lie while swearing on the bible.

Tammy

[beam me up scottie]

11. Christians lie all the time.

Everybody lies.

So nobody's christian?

That was easy.

[lonestarnot]

17. So Christian to you is a human that doesn't lie?

[beam me up scottie]

26. A christian is anyone who says they are. A muslim is anyone who says they

are.

A jew is anyone who says they are.

An atheist is anyone who says they are.

Get where I'm going with this?

If there was a god, only he would know for sure who believes in him.

The rest of you are using the No True Scotsman fallacy.

[lonestarnot]

29. This was also not the question. bushitler professes that he is a

Christian.

[beam me up scottie]

35. As does every other christian. Just like muslims all say they're muslim.

And atheists say they're atheists.

Jews say they're jewish.

Buddhists say they're buddhists...

[lonestarnot]

144. but do all assholes admit that they stink?

[beam me up scottie]

27. dupe

[lonestarnot]

111. So if one is a "real" Christian they don't lie?

[Zinfandel]

219. And we adore Bush for being so...human...

Fly away....my friend, while you can...your wings are getting oh so heavy...

[Angry Girl]

5. Is this a "Stand up if you're an absolute moron" test?

Yeah, I think he's about as Christian as Hitler and Goebbels and Pol Pot were.

[lonestarnot]

19. Are you implying that you are a moron? Thanks for answering.

:*

[Angry Girl]

119. Whoa! Take a chill pill, mac! So totally not what i meant!

[lonestarnot]

140. I've been called worse i.e. motherfucker, bastard, SOB, and my fucking

friend at work calls me a repooplikin for which he gets treated badly! :evilgrin:

[Angry Girl]

192. I wouldn't dream of calling you a repooplikan!

That would be downright rude!

[lonestarnot]

199. LOL the rudest!

[onehandle]

7. Most elected Republicans pretend to be Christian.

Their voters are just that dumb.

[beam me up scottie]

8. Define real.

Was Paul a christian?

Luther?

Calvin?

[lonestarnot]

25. See #13.

Paul was a Christian, Luther who Van Dr???, he died a week ago, guess he found out where he was going already. and Calvin no, I think he rejected the belief didn't he?

[speedoo]

9. the Coward is as much a Christian as he is a conservative.

Which is to say, he is neither. He's a phony Karl Rove creation.

[lonestarnot]

32. Woohoo a belief common to mine.

[Imagine My Surprise]

69. Well put.

[we can do it]

10. No Christian...No President - Just A Fake

[lonestarnot]

34. woohoo another belief similar to mine!

[MrSlayer]

12. Yeah as much as I am.

Which is to say, not at all.

[lonestarnot]

36. Yep, I believe he is worse, you probably don't profess to be a Christian

do you?

[MrSlayer]

47. No.

But I'm certainly more Christlike than he.

[lonestarnot]

112. This funny!

:rofl:

[ayeshahaqqiqa]

14. As I understand it, a Christian is one who follows Christ's teachings

As I understand Christ's teachings they include the following:

Love your neighbor as yourself.

Blessed are the poor

Blessed are the peacemakers

Whatsoever you do to the least of these, you do unto Me.

You tell me if you have observed Bush following these teachings.

[lonestarnot]

37. I think the two greatest instructions were, love your neighbor as yourself

and put no other gods before me. He sure has those all busted up now doesn't he.

[Maru Kitteh]

15. Bush worships himself and blames it on Jesus - NOT a Christian

not even close.

[lonestarnot]

38. Now this is interesting, how does he do this?

[Walt Starr]

16. From my personal experience of those who proclaimed themselves

Christian, Bush is certainly one of them.

[lonestarnot]

41. So these aren't the real thing?

[beam me up scottie]

18. He says he believes in the christian god and I can't read his mind.

So he's as christian as anyone else who says they are.

[lonestarnot]

42. the key is "who says they are" in your opinion?

[beam me up scottie]

50. I can't read minds and I'm not god, I have to take your word for it.

And everyone else who says they believe in the christian god, including mean people.

[lonestarnot]

153. You have elevated me to position of a Godess, My how flattering!

And a lazy one too!

[Triana]

21. Bwhahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!

Thanks for the laugh. I needed that.

He's about as much Christian as Osama binLaden is Mother Theresa.

:rofl:

[lonestarnot]

43. Woooo damn whoooooooooo another commonality in belief!

[Taxloss]

22. Ah, that old "real" Christianity. An elusive, quicksilver thing.

One side calls the other "not real Christians" - both sides do it. The left favours the beatitudes; the right favours the ten commandments. The left sees that Jesus' message was one of social justice; the right puts more store in the literal truth of Genesis and Revelations. The left takes its moral cues from Matthew; the right from Leviticus and the other nasty bits of the Old Testament.

What about the socially conservative Catholics - are they "real Christians"? Or the Quakers?

This "they're not 'real' Christians" argument is phoney and diverts attention from a real and growing need for internal debate and reform within Christianity.

[lonestarnot]

49. No you are making the question more difficult than it is really and the

second half of your argument doesn't necesarily follow the first half. I didn't ask for your opinion on the universe, just a narrow opinion on whether he fits into the definition of post 13.

[Taxloss]

58. No, you did ask for my opinion and my response is pertinent.

I responded to the OP, not answer #13. "Is Bush a real Christian?" is a meaningless question as the answer varies according to which yardstick you might use, which is precisely my point. A better question might be "does Bush think he is a Christian?" and I would say undoubtedly yes. Faith kept him dry drunk as an untreated alcoholic for a fair amount of time, and that does require faith. Certainly, there are many clergymen who will swear on a stack of Bibles that Bush is a "real" Christian. Are they real Christians?

[lonestarnot]

87. No I was curious as to the community of DUer's opinions as to whether

or not they believe what he tells us that he is a Christian, and it is not a meaningless question, as he still has support of many evangelical crowd. Many collective opinions together in one place makes a yardstick, but thanks for answering the question you posed. I would have to agree with you in part, that he does appear to think he is. In my opinion, no, not all clergymen are "real" as you designated, Christians.

[jonnyblitz]

65. nope, you are making the question to simplistic with your

pre-conceived assumption that xian just means acting good and anybody acting bad isn't a real one, thus letting xianity off the hook for all the bad crap that has been done in it's name since it was started. nt

[lonestarnot]

89. Nope didn't say anything about xian means acting good or bad, nor

did I let anyone off the hook as hooking wasn't my intention. Meerly asking for opinions.

[Name removed]

126. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[lonestarnot]

145. Hey I posted that that was not right to lock and it disappeared.

[mopaul]

28. not 'just' no, but FUCK no

[lonestarnot]

51. I believe you and I think along on these lines mopaul.

[Horse with no Name]

31. My Grandpa would remind you of Jimmy Carter

He is almost 90, in good health, active lifestyle, he is a Democrat, and he is the most Christian man I know.
We had this conversation during the holidays and he said that Bush is so far from being a Christian that it is unbelievable he gets away with it.
He said that this myth is being driven by the religious zealots with a passion because he is advancing their agenda by his pretense.
He also said that people don't pay much attention to the substance anymore, just the rhetoric. They take him at face value on his word that he is Christian but don't look behind the fascade because they NEED to believe that he is because of their own inadequate lives (speaking of Republicans).
They can justify their own shortcomings as a Christian by pointing to him and using him as an example that they are on the path to righteousness.
(paraphrased)

[lonestarnot]

53. I have a feeling that I would really like your Grandpa!

[FreedomAngel82]

33. Heck no

As a Christian myself heck no. Not from my studies on the Bible and Jesus. He doesn't help the poor, he likes war, he lies, steals. Not even my once supporting Bush grandmother on my dad's side believes he's a Christian anymore.

[beam me up scottie]

44. So only GOOD people are christian? Like Paul? Like Luther? Calvin?

The No True Scotsman fallacy is pure religious bigotry.

[lonestarnot]

55. Will you please splain to me how he has the fundies so wrapped up,

although their support of him appears to be ebbing somewhat.

[Imagine My Surprise]

74. becaue Rove has taught him to literally mesmerize an audience...

by certain psychological techniques e.g. repeating a series of contradicting statements over and over again. The mind will grow tired and just "accept" whatever he says. He is a cult leader. No other republican was like this. He is a Rove creation, I do believe. And I'm sure Rove has read up a bit on Nazi-esque oratory.

[lonestarnot]

91. Damn this is true, but I think that bushitler falls short of script,

Bushitler professes to be a Christian, so does that mean that he really "thinks" he is a Christian, or do you think he is a "C" actor?

[beam me up scottie]

77. Simple; they're all christian, just like he is.

He's definitely not intelligent enough to be an atheist.

[lonestarnot]

99. does a belief in Christianity mean that someone is stupid when they

accept the idea? Steven Hawkings is not stupid.

[beam me up scottie]

113. Hawkings is not a christian. And if you can equate christian with "good"

I can equate atheism with intelligence.

[lonestarnot]

154. You made that renumeration, I did not.

[beam me up scottie]

159. It's in THE FUCKING DICTIONARY.

Of course you don't see it, it's the equivalent of white male privilege for WASPS.

[lonestarnot]

173. Lots of things are in the dictionary, just what are you referring to?

[lonestarnot]

172. And why has he spent years writing theory for the big bang?

[beam me up scottie]

176. Because he's a scientist?

And way too smart to believe in sky daddy myths?

[lonestarnot]

177. That is not what he said.

[Zenlitened]

183. Maybe you could tell us what he said? That way we can be sure...

... we're all discussing the same issue here. :hi:

[lonestarnot]

186. Read what he stated with regard to the big bang.

[Zenlitened]

191. Help me out. Tell me what he stated.

:hi:

[lonestarnot]

201. Look it up

:hi:

[Zenlitened]

210. So, you don't know a thing about Dawkins, do you?

It's okay to admit to ignorance. Ignorance can be replaced by facts, if you're willing to try.

[lonestarnot]

216. Never heard of Dawkins.

[jonnyblitz]

39. well he acts like most christians i have experienced so yes..

everybody always starts out with the presumtion christian automatically equates with GOOD and if they act bad they aren't "real" xians. if we look throughout the history of xianity i beg to differ on that xianity equates with good thing. that being said I don't think we have any fucking business questioning how others choose to define themselves. i say bush is a christian who doesnt behave like some who assume christianity equals good thinks he should act. I think he is typical of the majority i have experienced who identify as xian.

IT'S ALL SUBJECTIVE.

[lonestarnot]

60. Ah yes the key subjectivity. But all opinions are subjective and that was

understood in the question, hopefully. As for no "fucking business" I think we have business because some people refer to bushitler as President and he professes to be a Christian, which is held out to assign a certain moral character. Sounds like you've run into many things called disappointing humans, but it's alright to be human, not alright to profess Christianity and be a Jew or an atheist, or agnostic, or witch, or xian for that matter.

[jonnyblitz]

72. well..where do we stop?....do i tell the xian DUer who agrees with

Paul Hackett's anti immigrant rants that he isnt a true xian because he, along with Hackett, wants to ship all brown folks back to Mexico because, in my subjective definition, i don't believe that is how an xian should behave? how long would i last doing that here at DU? i would say we can offer our opinion that bush doesn"t act like most people assume good christians should act but i am not going to be pompous and do like the fundies do and proclaim who is a "real" christian and who isn't.

[lonestarnot]

103. Ok so now we are going to start with the ad hominum attacks.

I am not pompous, and I am by no means a fucking fundie :rofl: And I love Paul Hackett. Something must have been taken out of context, post a link please.

[Zenlitened]

169. Um, do you know what an 'ad hominem attack' is?

:shrug:

Or was your post meant as a subtle parody of people who play the 'persecution card' whenever the sledding gets rough?

[lonestarnot]

178. and do you imply that I am stupid heh heh heh

[Zenlitened]

200. No, I implied that you had a misunderstanding of what the term means.

There's no need to put yourself down by calling yourself 'stupid.'

[lonestarnot]

180. look it up or are you lazier than I am. If you read my post you can get

a contextual idea of what the latin term means.

[Zenlitened]

189. Here's the thing. The post you called 'ad hominem' was not...

... a personal attack on you. For example, the reference to pomposity was clearly linked to fundies.

You misconstrued it. You bungled the context. You personalized it -- for what reason, I don't know.

But your error does not make the post an attack.

[lonestarnot]

193. No it was more cowardly, beat around the bush inuendo. I prefer to beat

the bush and shitler tooooo.

[Zenlitened]

197. Perhaps when viewed through the "look they're persecutin' me" lens...

But really, it's best not to be so quick to take these things personally.

:hi:

[lonestarnot]

208. I don't have that lense and nothing posted at du could ruin my day.

But you on the other hand must be a repooplikin...

[Zenlitened]

211. Goodness gracious. More name-calling.

How very... um... christian of you.

[lonestarnot]

214. I believe you are nuts and I am tired, not of this fun, but it's been a

long day and I think I am going to bed. But I shall return another time, beware you've more than met your match.

[Zenlitened]

215. Hahhahahahahahaha!!

"Beware you've more than met your match"

That has got to be the funnest thing I've read here ina while.

Meth, man. That shit'll mess you up!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[lonestarnot]

217. And my point was easily made not once but twice with you and you

are now on my buddy list. The only one LOL :rofl:

[Zenlitened]

220. Sorry, I don't smoke that shit.

But good luck! :hi:

[lonestarnot]

234. well maybe you should....

:hi:

[Zenlitened]

218. Seriously, rest up if you feel the need. I really look forward to more...

... of your rapier-like debating technique.

Meanwhile, I'll go nurse my wounds, having (*snarf*) "more than met my match"!!!

:spray: :spray: :spray:



Oh, man. I gotta bookmark this. Gems like this don't just turn up every day.

[lonestarnot]

222. Adieu until we next meet. You are on and I haven't called you a freak

not once, reserve that for bushitler's beacons.

[Zenlitened]

227. Well, but in a "roundabout way" you just called me a freak right there...

... with that post, didn't you?

That wasn't very nice.

Or am I perhaps being to quick to personalize, internalize and take offense?

Nah, no one does that around here.

:rofl:

[Zenlitened]

230. Well now my feelings are hurt. The mean Christians* called me a freak.

And were taunting me and everything. :cry:





*Notice how easily the "s" is slipped in, turning the word into it's plural.

[lonestarnot]

231. I'm back checking to see if you said a pile thinking I went to bed.

and I caught you. You did! You'd shoot a person in the back wouldn't you? Now no more posting to me until I'm back..}(

[beam me up scottie]

226. Denial is a sad state.

It must be nice to be a twu beweever...

[Zenlitened]

228. If only he'd heard of Dawkins... this tragedy (comedy?) could have been...

... avoided.

:cry:

[lonestarnot]

233. heh heh heh

[lonestarnot]

232. beweever dats me.

[JuniperLea]

40. If you define Christian as being Christ-like...

HELL NO!


:)

[lonestarnot]

62. yes, I think that is part of the definition.

;) :7

[Yollam]

45. No, I don't think he is.

I'd estimate that about half of the people in our country who call themselves Christians in this country are nonbelievers or near-nonbelievers who use it as a social tool, or to get ahead. It's no different than guys who don't really like golf, but they play it because it's a prerequisite to move ahead in certain executive jobs.

[lonestarnot]

64. The worst kind of parasite egh? commonality Yollam! Don't you just

love DU! It is great to be part of this community!

[benddem]

48. Just read the

Sermon on the Mount...and see what one of the Beatitudes he follows. He and all the other phonies in congress are not Christian.

[lonestarnot]

67. don't they just make me sick.

[beam me up scottie]

54. He's as christian as DU christians who say they are.

[lonestarnot]

71. Now hold on just what are you saying? Is this a typo? or are you callin

g Christian DUers phonies? or none of the above?

[beam me up scottie]

73. If christians say they are christian, I have to take them at their word.

I allow everyone to define themselves, to do otherwise would be intolerant.

[lonestarnot]

84. This is good, but I am still curious. So he (bushitler) has defined

himself as president (usually never use those two words in the same sentence but for the sake of discussion, I will make an exception) does that mean he is president?

[beam me up scottie]

90. That's not a religious belief, is it?

I could say I was the president and you could prove me wrong using easily observable facts.

If I said I believed in god, you'd have no way to disprove it.

[lonestarnot]

93. No I would have no way to proove or disprove what you say with respect

to your belief, but I could give my opinion based on my subjective observations.

[beam me up scottie]

95. What if I were to say he's a liar and a coward so he must be christian?

That's an opinion.

[lonestarnot]

96. That would be an opinion, yes. A liar and a coward do not fit the

description of Christian behavior, but Jesus pardoned a theif while on the cross, so that theif was a Christian.

[beam me up scottie]

100. THe problem is making morality synonymous with christianity.

It is bigoted.

From religioustolerance.org:

Unfortunately, an air of religious intolerance permeates North America. Many Americans and Canadians equate "Christian" with being kind, decent or good. This implies that non-Christians lack these qualities. The purpose of dictionary definitions is to reflect the actual usage of words. Many dictionaries reflect this prejudice

[lonestarnot]

125. I think you are close to the root of the problem here. Very close!

[beam me up scottie]

132. I know what the problem is: Bigotry.

Christians claim they are morally superior by trying to exclude followers they don't want associated with their faith.

Like Hitler, Bush, Fred Phelps, Randall Terry...and so on and so forth.

[lonestarnot]

150. But you can be a christian and not be a part of any group. Same for

any ideology.

[beam me up scottie]

164. Christians wrote the book on bigotry. Just ask the native americans.

Or any of the other native peoples who were "saved" by missionary vultures.

[lonestarnot]

190. This has been discussed.

[jonnyblitz]

86. it's so much easier to let xianity off the hook by proclaiming

people as not being "real" xians that behave badly in the name of it. not all of us are fooled by this slippery ploy....

[beam me up scottie]

92. It's religious bigotry.

And it appears to be rampant on DU, just like the rest of the country.

Start a thread saying bush is a liar and a coward so he must be (insert religion here) and see what happens.

[lonestarnot]

101. No, I do not agree that all Christians are liars, nor do I believe they

all cowards, and no one is stopping your posting of that message and I will look for the response.

[beam me up scottie]

107. How long do you think a thread claiming * is jewish because he's greedy

would last?

:eyes:

But we all know it's perfectly okay to claim he's an unbeliever because he's not GOOD enough to be what you are.

[lonestarnot]

115. Now how the fuck do you know what I am?

You may state your opinion. :rofl:

[Imagine My Surprise]

59. I do NOT believe he is a Christian and I WILL judge...

if I'm not mistaken, the Apostle Paul said, "by their fruits, you shall know them." I do not believe he is "born again" Christian -- even though they're the bigots he caters to -- because there have been way too many accounts of him bursting into cursing rages. Such types do NOT curse. Not the real ones, at least. And I don't just mean "damn" or "hell", either. There's ample documentation that he's a hateful rager.

For the record I'm no Christian and curse when the opportunity presents itself.

Anyway, I do not believe he is even a liberal Christian, either.

He's a lying asshole who probably still uses drugs. Ooops, there goes that opportunity presenting itself again.

[lonestarnot]

75. heh heh heh, should have known better than to "tell" a duer what to do!

;)

[Cell Whitman]

63. His family are big supporters of Moon.

I don't think they are "moonies" in the sense that they fuck under photos of Moon like the members are required to do but they ARE moonies in the sense that help his agenda.



Neil Bush is traveling with Sun Myung Moon, here's what they are doing.
http://www.dailykos.com/storyonly/2005/12/2/224046/295

[lonestarnot]

76. bbbbbbbbbbwwwwwwwwwwa! fucking bwwwwwwwa hysterical!

:rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl::rofl:

[Mike Nelson]

68. Bush is NOT a Christian, BUT...

...thinks he is. He doesn't follow NT thinking at all... he probably didn't get past the OT. tOO MANY PAGES TO READ. He seems to be of the OT God-type... fearing God rather than loving God, ETC

[lonestarnot]

78. I wonder if he thinks he is? He professes that he is, so I guess he

thinks he is, so you don't think his name is in the Book of Life egh? I think you are right about the reading, but I think you are wrong about the fearing part. I think he has no fear, he's too stupid.

[FooFootheSnoo]

70. He thinks he's a Christian, but

I don't think he knows what the word means. Like the scene in the Princess Bride? "Why do you keep using that word Christian(inconceivable)? I do not think it means what you think it means."

[lonestarnot]

79. I didn't see Princess Bride did I?

[SammyWinstonJack]

80. Well I read somewhere during the 2000 campaign that bush was

"born again" during his run up for TX Gov, to get the "Fundy" vote and it was a Rove idea. So, bush is a phony and he, by his own admission is a 'media creation" at best, and a liar at worst! "Real Christian"? bush :rofl:

[lonestarnot]

97. me tooooooo

:rofl:

[karlrschneider]

102. I don't give a rat's ass if or whether he is a "TRVE" anything religion-wi

wise, it's just a shame he's a chickenshit ratbastard human being.

[lonestarnot]

117. ratbastard no doubt! human being without a conscience doesn't qualify

as a total human being. Only give credit where credit is due.

[SPKrazy]

118. This is an ASININE question

You are asking if B* is a real Christian

He may think he is

It's between him and God though, not me and him, or you, or anyone else on this forum to decide.

And no I'm not supporting B*, I'm not supporting the ridiculousness of this question

[lonestarnot]

127. I do not feel that this question is asinine, and I have a reason for

asking.

[SPKrazy]

152. Well Good For You

Except that there is no answer to your question!

Not an answer that makes any damned difference.

I suppose you are a Christian when you say you are.

Depending on your sect of Christianity that may vary to some degree.

But to some being a Christian means more than just saying you are, it means living a Christlike life (or one where the person strives to live as Christ did to the extent possible for that person)

No one is going to be able to live perfectly in Christ's image.

Does B*?

I don't think so.

But who the hell am I?

I don't like * because of his political philosophy, his mean spirited approach to dealing with America's social problems, his deceit, his arrogance, his incompetence, his misuse of power, etc. etc. etc.

I don't like the fact that he uses Christianity for his own ends. I personally don't think that is "Christian" for a person to do that.

I don't like any damned thing about *

But is he a "real" Christian?

I don't know his heart.

I can only judge his actions as a mean assed, arrogant, immature, fratboy, bastard that never really won the election in 2000, and has never had to do much of anything that I can tell spoiled muther f*cker!

There

[lonestarnot]

158. Thank you for what I assume is your opinion.

:rofl:

[beam me up scottie]

168. I'm glad to see someone gets it.

Thanks for weighing in.
It's like tilting at windmills.

[lonestarnot]

171. Fight on Don Quixote

[toddaa]

135. George Bush is a REAL Christian

How do I know this? He says so. Christians proclaim Jesus Christ as their personal savior and GW's on record proclaiming Jesus Christ as his personal savior. According to the Bible, that means he goes to heaven. Just like Jeffrey Dahlmer, who also proclaimed Jesus Christ as his personal savior prior to being murdered in jail. Christianity is filled with all kinds of crazy loopholes like that.

I'm going to Hell.

[beam me up scottie]

142. Bingo.

Bad people are christians too.

[lonestarnot]

160. Then you like it hot egh?

:rofl:

[jonnyblitz]

194. NOOO..there are NO BAD XIANS!! they are all perfect

or they aren't "real". silly. :crazy:

[KalicoKitty]

136. You see Bush on TV, and THIS is what you see:

Bush is a hypocrite, if there ever was one!!!!


:puke:

[lonestarnot]

161. clever!

[cynatnite]

139. He's a fake christian...

If a christian was how I think they ought to be, then I'd call him fake.

[lonestarnot]

163. Exactly what I ask for thank you.

[beam me up scottie]

166. He's a christian, he's too stupid and immoral to be an atheist.

At least how I think atheists ought to be.

[InaneAnanity]

195. His view on life is...

...that the best way to live is to die for your country, or some crap like that.

No atheist would say that, I guarantee it.

[KalicoKitty]

143. George Bush Is Not A Christian

http://www.mosquitonet.com/%7Eletterman/Bush2.html

[lonestarnot]

165. Thanks for the link. Now can we start mass distribution of this at

some of those big multibillion dollar Chrystal Palace joints. And change some minds without having to talk to or look at any of these nutjobs?

[InaneAnanity]

148. I don't care if * is a christian or not

I don't like christianity, and I don't like Bush. I don't really care if he is or not.

It's a meaningless debate, because he thinks he is a christian, and most christians think he is a christian. That's all that matters.

[lonestarnot]

167. And there InaneAnanity is the basis for the debate.

[InaneAnanity]

179. Who cares??

The vast majority of christians probably aren't christian, if you look at things critically.

The fact that he doesn't follow the teachings is irrelevant. He says he is a christian, people believe he is a christian (regardless of this debate), so he is a christian.

[lonestarnot]

182. So if the majority of the 36% of his supporters left are fundies we have

basis for debate and I care.

[InaneAnanity]

187. Why??!!??

I think you are trying to "show" he isn't a christian to make yourself feel better, being a christian yourself.

Unfortunately, christianity has a pretty sordid history, and some pretty bad folks were christians. The inquisition and the crusades come to mind. Or do you claim that medieval christians were not actually christians??

Jerry Falwell, Pat Robertson, and George Bush ARE christians, just like those who murdered heretics back in the middle ages were christians, just like the English who slaughtered Indians in the past century were christians.

If you don't want to associate yourself with the bad elements of christianity, don't be a christian. Otherwise, you should recognize that there are plenty of bad christians out there, and deal with it.

[Zenlitened]

181. Seriously... I was taught growing up in a Lutheran household that...

... the central requirement for being Christian was to believe that Jesus Christ was the son of god, born of the virgin mary, none enter heaven but by him, etc. etc.

And I have no doubt that Bush believes all these things -- which would make him a christian.

But now it seems the goalposts are moving. These days, with so many rotten people walking around saying "Lookit me! I'm a christamurrikan!" -- now suddenly it's all about a person's deeds?

Yes, yes, "by their fruits ye shall know them." Check. But Bush and his minions truly believe that the fruits of their actions are GOOD, not evil. They firmly, fervently righteously believe that they are "doing the lord's will."

And there are lots of them.

Is it a matter of consensus, then? If there are more bush christians than liberal christians, more people happy with his "fruits" than unhappy, does that make him a real christian then?

:shrug:

[jonnyblitz]

188. it's just an attempt for xians to deny there aren't bad ones

by proclaiming who is "real" and who isn't. it's a denial thing on their part and very disingenuous. all one has to do is look at historical christianity to see what has been done in the name of it.

[Lindacooks]

184. He certainly doesn't follow the words of Christ, which are:

Help the poor.

Tax the rich.

House and clothe children.

Help heal the sick.

Turn the other cheek.

Chimpy is the exact opposite of Christ.

[InaneAnanity]

206. Maybe he's just an old testament kinda guy

Fire from the heavens, massive floods, serpent temptation, sacrifice firstborn son, bad stuff.

[thecai]

185. It's Not Judging When "You'll Know Them By Their Fruits"

The fruit of the Holy Spirit is Love, Peace, Joy, Goodness, Kindness, Gentleness, Faithfulness, Patience, and Self-Control.
I do not believe for one second that B*sh is a Christian. Can anyone name ONE THING he has done that is Christ-like?
The Bible WARNS of leaders like B*sh.

[Palladin]

204. Heretic.

His wife, and the Cheneys too.

The Roman Catholic Church no longer prays specifically for the President of the United States.
All over the country, that was stopped in 2003.
That was JPII's doing, and the American bishops'. They didn't make a big fuss about it, but it happened.
Nowadays, occasionally we pray for all world leaders.

[jonnyblitz]

212. seriously though lonestarnot! there are good xians and bad xians

who is to say who is a "real" xian. I have known and met many good and wonderful xians and many more horrible ones.

this is just my opinion.

i would call bush a horrible christian because he claims to believe in jesus as his lord and savior.

[lonestarnot]

221. and that is what I asked for, your opinion. Now help me think of a

logical way to demonstrate this to the Chrystal Palace folks.

[InaneAnanity]

223. They don't want you to be logical

Just have faith. :crazy:

[lonestarnot]

236. There is nothing wrong with having faith.

[jonnyblitz]

225. oh good luck with that one my friend...LOL

:hug:

[Hello_Kitty]

213. In the sense of following the teachings of Christ, hell no.

As for what he truly believes, it's tough to say. His religious fervor does come off as somewhat genuine, in contrast to some of the obvious phony opportunists who surround him. Basically, he seems like a deluded, self-aggrandizing dickweed who thinks he's earned special access to the Almighty because he was born into the Bush family. That's what makes it so freaking scary. He's like David Koresh with a LOT more money and power.

[Peter Frank]

229. I think he believes he's the real deal...

...but his actions say otherwise. I doubt that he has the capacity for honest self-examination -- which is arguably most important Christian value.

[LeftCoast]

237. I'm going to lock this

Discussions of W's christianity or lackthereof might be better served in the Religion and Theology forum. As it stands, this thread has run its course.