Jonathan Turley just said something very interesting on Countdown...

[bridgit]

it played into a favorite theme of mine that many people ignore routinely...apathy, the apathy of americans as he had stated it this way, when commenting on how we have indeed fundamentally changed; this nation has changed: it changed the moment 'we' voted these new 'prisoner & battlefield combatant' articles into law, he was of course referring to lawmakers still,

i realize that we didn't vote for them, not you or i, or very likely anyone we know but they are here nonetheless; practices we had held others criminally responsible for in previous conflicts 'we' now embrace...

but it all happened from within what Turley referred to as (and here is where i have to agree) "a great yawn across the country as americans turn to: Dancing With The Stars..."

apathy. they were Good Germans then, or so they said to history itself when history came to take it's reckoning...are we now Good Americans for letting, somehow allowing these disease & sickness to infect this land,

what will be our answer, when history comes for us with it's reckoning...or more to the point: them, the proverbial 'they', when we just sat here too

[truedelphi]

1. I guess we can always say that we

Were just following orders - the networks' orders that we watch
American Idol or Survivor or whatever

[bridgit]

3. there you go...

:thumbsup:

[tavalon]

33. So, I guess the fact that I have refused to get cable TV

or even put a set of rabbit ears on my TV that only plays DVDs of my choosing means that I am not a good American?

My sig line from the year 2004 (I came up with it in January 2004 and I hated getting rid of it, that awful year end): It isn't 2004, it's not even 1984, it's 1934 and I am NOT a good German.

I was making the analogy long before it was popular.

[bridgit]

46. me neither, i'm a lousy german...

:cry:

[janetle]

2. If Bushies start snatching suburban kids......

....who put anti-war or anti-Bush statements on their MySpace pages, then maybe people will wonder what rights have now been thrown down the drain. Everyone thinks it won't affect them--until it does.

This scares the shit out of me. What are we now allowed or not allowed to say and do?? It is up to Bush.

[bridgit]

4. i do not feel vindicated knowing that i seen this bush kid coming...

he has a whole two years to REALLY fuck shit up and it is not over yet

[tavalon]

34. If we get a majority in the House and Senate

He won't get his full two years. It will be a popcorn year - 2007. So many impeachments, so little time.........

[bridgit]

38. that sounds right to me...

:patriot:

[janetle]

84. Teen was snatched--see this link

Actually, I wasn't joking when I said that suburban teens could be snatched up for what they put on Myspace. This actually happened to a 14 year old girl in California. I have friends that know her and her family.

http://www.heraldnet.com/stories/06/10/15/100wir_a9myspace001.cfm

[Old and In the Way]

5. The table is set....the definition of 'enemy combatant' can be tuned to

fit the interests of the Decider. Life would be easier if he was dictator.

[bridgit]

7. OaItW, i hear you but that is unacceptable to me and yes i know...

who the hell am i; there a line in Much Ado, "Oh! That I were a man, I would eat his heart in the marketplace!"

[Old and In the Way]

17. Nor to me bridgit.

Nor, do I suspect to all, but the most hardcore Bush cultists. Personally, I think we need to link this to Bush's predisposition towards a dictatorship. This is going to freak a lot of people who don't pay attention to politics. I suspect that the remaining rational Republicans and uncommitted Independents will be the next groups to exit the party of Organized Crime.

We need to talk this point up with everyone who doesn't pay attention to politics.

[bridgit]

22. people refer to them as 'bush-isms', but they are flat-out Freudian...

Slips, he is imo a low, to mid-grade madman wannabe boy king/tyrant/caeser..."catapult the propaganda" "there's nothing wrong with a dictatorship so long as I'm the dictator" my ass, it is all right there for all to see, this lunatic has to go x(

[stopbush]

25. Caligula ruled supreme and killed his "enemies" with impugnity.

The Romans knew he was nuts, but even such an unbridled madman got away it for a while.

[bridgit]

28. sad but true, the folkism is 'in for a penny in for a pound', not...

'in for a penny now i get everything under the sun for me & mine & the rest of you are just shit out of luck'

that's is sick, simple-minded thinking http://www.awakeninthedream.com/html

[havocmom]

35. Caligula was, if I recall, done in by his own detail

And I cling to the hope that public servants serve the public.

[elehhhhna]

81. Well, the Generals don't. They were right behind Bush at the destruction

of Habeus Corpus yesterady and I did not notice them taking him into custody.

[havocmom]

82. Others do serve the public

Too many generals serve the interests of their future employers. But some public servants do serve the public

They are in all departments of Federal Service. Wouldn't surprise me if some were even in the Secret Service. There sure are lots in the CIA.

[gordianot]

29. His Bush-isms are not funny, and he is allowed occupy his office.

Those who surround him at least keep their disease private.

[bridgit]

30. no they're not funny they're a telling snap of his mental landscape...

i personally believe he was chosen for his inability to relate to anyone, or anything BUT himself

[Sydnie]

6. I'm not convinced that it's apathy

Perhaps it is, but I think it's more lack of a central voice to rally behind. Look what Cindy did for the peace movement. She brought so many like minded people together because there was a central figure to which they could cling and support. I see lack of a central figure as a bigger deterrent than anything else right now. More people realize what is happening everyday but they don't have a leader to rally behind.

Here's an example from my life. I have signs in my front yard. One sign is a tally of the soldiers lost in Iraq nationally as well as the number from my state. I also have one that reminds people that Iraq is turning into Iran faster than we can imagine. My mail lady had a registered letter for me two days ago, so she knocked on my door to get me to sign for it. She hands me the letter, shows me where to sign, then pauses for a second, looks me in the eye and tells me she likes my signs and thanks me for having them there. She then commented that it appears that people are driving by and not paying any attention to them and how sad that is. I responded that I don't think they are not paying any attention to them, it's just not attention that we can see. I am sure they see them and think about them and then converse about them with others. Maybe not everyday as the numbers grow, but at the very least every time the local number grows.

We need a central figure, a loud voice to rally the informed and the determined, as well as those that are feeling helpless and hopeless. In the 60's we had many voices to stand behind. Now, we have so few.

[speedoo]

8. I would like to think you're right.

I have often compared these times with the 60's, but it gets so depressing, I can't think about the comparison for very long. There was a draft then, and a much more honest media. And of course we had MLK and RFK and Gene McCarthy and so many others leading us. And as much as we faulted LBJ and Nixon, they were nothing relative to this conniving, evil bunch.

[Generator]

9. I agree pretty much

It's not exactly apathy. I wanted to scream a the TV when the local news prounces it in the language that of course is exactly what the president uses, "the detainee act." How we treat terrorists. Implying that they are already guilty, already confirmed terrorists and here's the kicker-I bet 90% of Americans don't have a fricking clue that this applies to them. They are the future detainee. It's not just foreign terrorists captured in countries that are Islamic. That's what Americans think. It's doesn't apply to Americans. But wait-uh oh it DOES!

You know, at some date in the future it will happen to some "regular" Americans and no one will understand how this happened. It's not like it was EXPLAINED to them on Nightline or Dateline or CBS news. It was never explained to the majority of Americans. It was presented as just a way to handle those that are already at Gitmo or in Iraq, those already "guilty."

[rainy]

10. What a great point! This is so true. Even our Dems in congress

most, will not stand and have their own voice heard, specially this close to election time, even when they have seen that speaking us gets lots of votes and attention. Just look at all the excitement over Clinton standing up for himself. We could really use a voice that is consistent and strong and stating our core beliefs.

[lyonn]

36. As Turley stated, the Dems in Congress didn't make a big

issue out of this law. They should have voted no, All of them, and then hit the media as best they can letting people know this law applies to THEM too. Hell, Murtha gets attention. As you mentioned, Clinton got attention when he showed sincere anger and spoke clearly to the issues.

It's like the vote to let bush take us to war. Those that voted for it are having a hard time talking their way out of it, what will be their excuse for this vote?

Edit: The clip shown on tv of the signing and then bush and cheney walking out looked like they were thinking, F* every one of you. Usually there are smiles and back slapping, not this time, only the idiots behind him.

[anitar1]

58. And the idiots behind them were applauding. n/t

[SammyWinstonJack]

75. with glee. nt

[bridgit]

11. sadly, or blissfully, or gratefully, or all three & then some; we have...

lives to live, america is a juggernaut and we are it's crew this thing just keeps rolling along...i like your story & your passion very much and thank you for it, and i do believe that america is capable of righting herself once she realizes she is listing

:patriot:

[KoKo]

83. Think you are correct. People just don't know what to do without having

a visible vocal leader who will rally them. We out here on the Lefty Internets have ourselves for support and we've rallied around some legal hero's and activist lawyers and interest groups who were trying to stop this awful legislation. But, for the average folks who don't have that support network...what are they to do? They only have time to catch some TV News they might read Time or Newsweek in their doctors office...but they just aren't being informed by anyone that they can understand.

I hate to think how bad it could be if "We" weren't out here trying to do something...but signing petitions and phoning and faxing doesn't seem to be getting much result when legislation like this keeps passing.

I wish we had a Dem voice or even a Repug voice who could manage to get out and break the Media Wall down. Until then we just have to keep supporting the ACLU and hope that going through the courts (sadly lots of Bush judges) will eventually roll back what's been going on.

[stopbush]

12. But Americans HAVE taken to the streets to protest bush's assault

on our nation and its principles. Millions protested the illegal war before it happened. Protestors were arrested
today during the Bush Can Torture Americans Bill signing ceremony. Does any of it get much coverage in the
media? We all know the answer to that.

You know, there does come a point where even the most ardent street protestor wishes to hell that our fucking
REPRESENTATIVES would actually represent us. It's a patheic comment on our reps that the people are now
without representation. Didn't we have a revolution over that a while ago?

Yes - most Americans have traded
the citizenship in for consumership, and most of our representatives have traded in their morals for dollars, but
there are still those who will go to their graves (or Gitmo, which ever comes first) screaming to the heavens
that our democracy is dying (did anyone catch the ACLU convention on C-span today?).

[bridgit]

14. my sense is that that is key, our dem leaders may well consider...

if not throwing it all into the wind; then back into their smirking faces, let those chips then fall where they may

[lyonn]

45. The protestors appeared to be a small group and yet

they were shown cuffed and were being patted down. They were dressed in orange as detainess at Gitmo and their guards in black.

[YellowRubberDuckie]

90. If people start coming up missing...

Well, we'll at least know what happened to them.
Duckie

[C_U_L8R]

13. we get the government we deserve

[bridgit]

16. then it's well past time to turn this thing around...

[garybeck]

15. NO WAY. I CALL BULLSHIT.

I know where he's coming from, but he is wrong.

We did not elect this administration, or this congress. Not in 2000 or 2004. In 2004 we had the greatest turnout in decades. People stood on lines for hours to vote. The election was stolen in Ohio and the entire nation.

We can't blame the people, because we really did our job. We voted these guys out.

The biggest blame goes on the media. They did not report the problems with the election. They called it a "clean election."

[bridgit]

19. sure i got'cha & i straight-up hear'ya too...

MSM has failed it's charter and handed the world from within the absence of questions 'a world' of misery instead = fuck the A-list cocktail parties of Georgetown that is a flim-flam world in either case, larger numbers this next time & throughout, swamp the exit polls, turn-out is key as well imo

[garybeck]

21. I wish Turley and folks like him would understand it too...

When will Olbermann focus on the election problems? He seems to be afraid to get into it.

[bridgit]

23. Turley seems to have a genuine concern for the letter AND spirit...

of the law, he had to have been vacated watching precious articles of our loftier poetries being torn to bits before his eyes...poor Jonathan, poor America The Beautiful

[Poiuyt]

27. Actually, Olbermann DID focus on the 04 election problems every night for

a long time after the election. He was the only one covering it.

[Generator]

32. I will never forget that!

And he's still the only "mainstream" source covering the crimes against this country. It's what journalism really is. He's the only light in the cable darkness.

[garybeck]

59. I do remember, I was watching. but he dropped the issue too soon

and hasn't mentioned it once when many many big developments have been going on.

[Old and In the Way]

24. I agree with every word in your post.

Our corporate media has let us down. Worse, they've let their children and families down. Do they think they are immune to these laws? I'd suggest that they will be the 1st front line enemy combatants that get to enjoy the fruits of these new anti-terrorist laws. They've enabled these crooks to take over our government by not doing their job of informing the citizens of this country.

[Generator]

26. That's another issue even though I agree still

you made your point. If the fricking media told Americans the fucking truth which is simply this, the congress has just passed a bill that allows the president to do anything to YOU if HE and HE ALONE decides you are an "enemy combatant" and then you have NO LEGAL right to a trial or the evidence against you. You can be held forever without trial. And this applies to American citizens too. I don't think that point was ever made!

And he have anything done to you, except (these are the only exceptions in the bill- I never saw this anywhere but on the internet) rape you or murder you or mutilate you. I think torture actually is what is left out. Because torture by definition is continuous pain that leaves you alive for the purposes of the torturer. Who knows these facts? Who leaves the definition of guilty up to ONE MAN? Is that a Democracy?

Did we allow this? Did we even know about it? Did we have any representation? Every single one of those filthy fuckers (and yes they deserve that) that calls themselves a congressman or woman or Senator HAS has their first and primary duty to protect the constitution and our basic rights. And they have not done that. They deserve nothing less than the label of treason. We are being led by the enemy.

[bridgit]

50. you got it!! they have made solemn, sworn oaths to protect what is...

fast becoming little more than tattered hemp paper; enemies foreign & domestic my ass...someone in DC has to stand up!!

[Lydia Leftcoast]

71. And I think you could explain it to right-wingers with,

"Would you like a Democratic president to have those kinds of powers to use against you?"

[Usrename]

55. Of course Turley is full of it

He asks "how could this happen?"

Oh, how that infuriates me. He was the only constitutional scholar to testify that Clinton should indeed be impeached. Turley is an imbecile.

He does not know or chooses to ignore the fact that the largest demonstrations in the history of the world took place just three and a half years ago to protest Bush's invasion of Iraq. This was a world-wide effort, the likes of which have never been seen before. Apathy my ass...

Turley is a huge idiot.

[garybeck]

60. I don't think he's an idiot, I just think he

hasn't been objective or even interested in the election fraud issue enough to realize there's something going on. so he's stuck in the false premise that people are actually responsible because we voted for him. I don't blame him for his lack of understanding but I hope he breaks through, and I hope many more like him do. Election theft is the key to it all. It explains so much, when everyone is saying " I just don't get it. "

[Lydia Leftcoast]

73. He's correct in that people are responsible for not taking to the streets

I did take to the streets in Minneapolis on October 5, and I could see many people applauding and waving and honking their horns, only a few expressions of disgust, but most of all apathy. At least half the people we passed by simply ignored the two-block-long procession marching down one of the main streets of downtown.

He's also correct in saying that the MSM have not emphasized this issue enough. It's more important to spend 2/3 of each local newscast on weather and high school sports. It's more important for local newspapers to do as the Minneapolis Star-Tribune did last spring and put an article about the expense of attending prom on the front page.

If our MSM get any fluffier we'll have to tie our TVs down to keep them from floating away.

[garybeck]

87. disagree

the people need to have a reason to take to the streets. when the media says it was a clean election, they all go back to their easy chairs. but i'm convinced they had a pitchfork in their hands and they wanted to use it.

look at Ukraine and Mexico. When the media reports the facts and the candidate stands up, the people react.

[blossomstar]

18. Profound post. Thank you.

[bridgit]

20. cheers friend...

:toast:

[katsy]

31. Apathy and so much more.

1. Apathy as J Turley suggests

2. Corruption of some sort with voter drives and when counting votes

3. More people in poverty/disenfranchisement, longer work hours to support a family. People can't keep their heads above water let alone become informed voters.

4. Mixing church/state with religious corporations grab of taxpayer $$$ to fund their pet projects and accumulate more zombies... they won't bite the hand that feeds them.

5. Corporate funding of elections & corporate lobbyists that promote legislation that serves only their shareholders.

6. Corporate media... ditto #5 above.

7. Miltary/Industrial complex... need I say more? We spend more on death than the rest of the world combined.


Yes, the nation has changed. The power is concentrated at the top and corporate facist's hands. Will any of the above change with Dems in power... of Congress and the Presidency? We need a hero. Truly... a hero.

[bridgit]

37. George Carlin made a point, "America has the only national anthem...

with bombs & rockets right there in it!!"

some suggest we've been making more ordnance than we need since we made musket balls for Brown Bess, but there has to be a way up the middle; bush & the bfee have no intention of courting the middle ground, someone asked in another thread lately "why do republicans hate the Clinton's so much?"

i think it was because Bill lived that American Dream, he worked hard and became The President Of The United States Of America, just like his mother may have suggested to him...

...and that PISSED the power elite off (i.e. the bfee) so much they couldn't see straight anymore, they have power and they will do ANYTHING to keep their hands on it

a hero, yes...i agree :hi:

[katsy]

39. "why do republicans hates the Clinton's so much?"

Exactly! Because a poor boy made it to their inner circle.

:thumbsup:

[bridgit]

40. yep, Clinton seen the numbers and he played them with great nuance...

i miss that guy :)

[Lydia Leftcoast]

74. I'm sure that's it

I'm not a Clinton fan, but I knew an elderly man in Portland whose views were very left-leaning on most subjects (he proudly showed me a letter from Noam Chomsky once), and he hated Clinton. Why? Well, this man was a maverick member of a wealthy Southern family, and he considered Clinton a "cracker." Unable to overcome the class biases of his traditional upbringing, he was sure that Clinton had somehow cheated his way to the top.

[Disturbed]

42. As Katsy stated it more complicated than only apathy.

Katsy
31. Apathy and so much more.

1. Apathy as J Turley suggests

2. Corruption of some sort with voter drives and when counting votes

3. More people in poverty/disenfranchisement, longer work hours to support a family. People can't keep their heads above water let alone become informed voters.

4. Mixing church/state with religious corporations grab of taxpayer $$$ to fund their pet projects and accumulate more zombies... they won't bite the hand that feeds them.

5. Corporate funding of elections & corporate lobbyists that promote legislation that serves only their shareholders.

6. Corporate media... ditto #5 above.

7. Miltary/Industrial complex... need I say more? We spend more on death than the rest of the world combined.

8. Fear

9. Ignorance

10. Trusting the Glorious Leader.

[katsy]

49. A hero... and a revolt.

We need a hero. A populist leader. And a lot of foot soldiers to change the direction of this country.

Maybe it'll come in our children's lifetime.

Good point Disturbed:

9. Ignorance... no more private education at all. No vouchers. Flatten the educational system. Public schooling available to everyone from cradle (so to speak) thru college/trade school (with minimum gpa set for federal funding). NO PRIVILIGED FEW - NADA.

Edit to add rant: Look at the silver spoon bred idiot we have in office now! Really! No more inbred dynasty morans ever!

[madmusic]

41. "Popeye! Popeye! Save me, Popeye!"

Apathy has nothing to do with it. It's a mass submission because of fear. Fear of this, fear of that. One moral panic after another led us into this trap to the point we became so needy and afraid we would lick Big Daddy government's boots. Protect me!

We don't want to object too much because we might lose our protection, and our POWER. That's right, too many gained power by jumping on moral panic bandwagons and didn't want to give it up. Not only are moral panics big business, they lift the panic-inciters to a god-like status. "I have power. I have control. I am right."

Who wants to give that up?

To take a good hard look at BushCo's fear mongering and the rights we give up for a little more security, we would have to look at what led to this, look at how we contributed to the atmosphere, and look at how we like being used like BushCo uses "the nuts."

We support Two Minutes of Hate with cable news and constant images of crime that so enrages and angers us we would give up every right to JUST MAKE IT STOP. Nancy Grace's Objection even flagrantly argues against the Bill of Rights.

We've been feeding this machine for years and pretending shock now is even more chicken-shit.

Guess what, Popeye isn't anywhere around and he never was. He's a fucking cartoon character.

[bridgit]

43. well you can't eat the spinach anymore either Popeye, it'll kill'ya...

or not till a fresh batch is shipped up from Paraguay...sides, i see more hummers & SUV's on the roads everyday, people aren't even really afraid of higher gas prices :shrug:

[madmusic]

44. Thanks for the laugh!

And the chance to cool off a little.

Believe me, I tamed that post WAY down.

[bridgit]

47. in that case the next round's on me...

:toast: :beer:

[madmusic]

48. Nothing like a cold one... thanks.

:toast::toast::toast::toast:
:beer::beer::beer::beer:

[bridgit]

68. ooah, my head...

:donut: :hi:

[madmusic]

85. You too?

Ouch! :hangover:

Did we have a good time? I can't remember!

[bridgit]

88. yeah, it seemed like a good time to me...

:)

[SPKrazy]

51. I Am Not A Good German

That being said, I can't say that I always speak up to "good Germans" when it comes to apathy.

Apathy is what happens when people can no longer pay attention. The pace of the information coming to people is overwhelming at times to some, if not most of us.

I work all day, try to do the "family things", am exhausted, try to keep up with the news on the internet(s), yet, I abbreviate my attention span when it comes to all of the details of a story.

I admire the people that are on top of stories, and can explain the nuances of complicated issues. I can do that with things that I have time for.

I already don't get enough sleep, like most people by the way. (No 8 hours here)

I am not a "good German" though, I vote, I tell people what I think, and I don't let apathy take over despite the fact that I feel that societal pressures push in the direction of fostering apathy.

I don't even have time for dancing with the stars anymore.

So, I only hope that when history comes for me, that I can answer truthfully, that while the fascist fires were burning, that I did something!

If not for my sake, then for my son's sake.

He came home from 1st grade with a Navy pencil. WTF?

I live in a red state, surrounded by red states. Yet we have a majority of legislators (State and Federal) that are Democrats.

I am hoping that we will elect a Democrat for Governor, Lt. Governor, Atty. General, and maintain the majority in the state legislature. We won't win with a Dem in my very red area of the state for US House, but at least he is having to buy ads and billboards. In the past (Boozman 3rd AR) he hasn't had to do anything but raise money and sell bullshit.

I'd like to think that somehow I can claim non-apathy in this election, although I admit, I haven't done as much this time around as I have previously.

[bridgit]

52. geez, you're making sense to me; i think 'they' bank on that too...

that we, you & i, still need to make ends meet, make some sense of it all while they play dark, black off-tune-fiddles; i thought we'd be able to go to a recent cali DU meet-up which by all account turned out great & fun...we run our own business so i'm here right now after having drove all over the freaking landscape today, every day for the last seven, tomorrow, the next, maybe a weekend off; but couldn't get enough release from clients and as i suggest 'they' bank on that, not our being too busy to care per se, but too busy to take a breath in a world gone whack

peace, to you this evening :hi:

[SPKrazy]

91. I bet they do

people used to be able to make it on one salary

think if that were true today and a couple both wanted to work

they could both work and have plenty of money

or they could each work halftime and make ends meet

I've never been an adult (that may be true in itself) during a time when this was possible

so maybe it is just a little too idealistic

but i think the economy became worse and nobody told us! and now when it gets worse, it sinks a little deeper

and it keeps us too busy to take a breath in the world gone whack, as you say

:hi:

[gully]

53. I think the media has failed to inform us. PROPAGANDA helped

the Nazi's, and it has assisted the current regime in the US.

Thank the gods for term limits is all I can say. Here's hoping for a new congress/senate in 06 to begin to undo SOME of the damage.

[bridgit]

54. i become disgusted anew every time i see novak nearly popping...

the buttons off that snazzy red vest he wears like the pompous uniform it is covering his insatiably wanton belly-full; but you are right...america's free press has failed her in her most dire hour of greater need

Vote Them Out!!!

then stop paying reporters by the inch, are start paying them by the verified truth is my thought

[fooj]

56. I talked with my hubby about this tonight...

We will now experience the shame many Germans experienced...

Willful compliance. Utterly SHAMEFUL.

[bridgit]

61. sadly yes that was his point & it stuck me as similar way as well...

shameful yes: bush & his willful un-american myopia, though america at large for her ho-hum retort

[Raksha]

57. I read your OP and the phrase "Criminal Apathy" flashed into my mind

to describe the attitude of the Good Germans and with the same mindset.

[bridgit]

63. most sadly but yes there are recollections of having walked through...

serene, pastoral German hamlets out of fairy book tales with happy grassy cow covered hills but for the stench of the rotting; they forfeited their presumably better, noble-selves over to 'others' as well

are we there yet? it's hard to say. the game is far slicker, more nuanced than before. evil is on the learning curve as well

[Vinca]

62. I agreed entirely with Turley, but I haven't got a solution.

I'm still shell shocked the bill was actually signed.

[bridgit]

64. i await the dem leader that will call bush & the republicans on their...

bullshit & stick with it till it drops from their hands

[grizmaster]

65. all it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing

I'm not even all that good, but I'm not taking this sitting down. As far as I'm concerned the bush junta can consider me an unlawful enemy combatant until our Constitution, habeus corpus, and the balance of powers is restored.

[bridgit]

66. good men have done nothing, and now a darkness is upon us...

something wicked else this way came

[xkenx]

67. Nazi Germany parallels

First they came for the Communists, but I was not a Communist so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Socialists and the Trade Unionists, but I was neither, so I did not speak out.
Then they came for the Jews, but I was not a Jew so I did not speak out.
And when they came for me, there was no one left to speak out for me."
Martin Niemoller

(Niemoller was a pro-Nazi Party church leader until his church displeased Hitler. Niemoller wound up in a concentration camp.)

[bridgit]

69. those words are no longer distant to us...

thank you for your post

[Lydia Leftcoast]

70. "Amusing Ourselves to Death" was the title of a 1985 book by

the late Neil Postman.

If he were alive today, I'm sure he would be very unhappy to see that the title of his book was all too prophetic.

Here's the first part of the Wikipedia entry:

Amusing Ourselves to Death: Public Discourse in the Age of Show Business (1985), is a controversial book by Neil Postman in which he argues that mediums of communication inherently influence the conversations carried out over them, that television is the primary means of communication for our culture, that television has the property of converting conversations into entertainment and so that public discourse on important issues has disappeared, since the treatment of serious issues as entertainment inherently prevents them from being treated as serious issues. ("Conversations" in the sense here of a culture communicating with itself).
The book originated with Postman's delivering a talk to the Frankfurt Booksellers Convention in 1984. He was participating in a panel on Orwell's 1984 and the contemporary world.
(snip)
Postman distinguishes the Orwellian vision of the future, in which totalitarian governments seize individual rights, from the vision offered by Aldous Huxley in Brave New World, where people medicate themselves into bliss and voluntarily sacrifice their rights. Postman sees television's entertainment value as a "soma" for the contemporary world, and he sees contemporary mankind surrendering its rights in exchange for entertainment. (Note that there is no contradiction between an intentional "Orwellian" conspiracy using "Huxleyan" means, which is an argument advanced in the later book The Unreality Industry: the deliberate manufacturing of falsehood and what it is doing to our lives by Ian Mitroff and Warren Bennis (New York: Carol Pub. Group, 1989). Postman evidently did not disagree, since he provided a blurb for this book.)

The essential premise of the book, which Postman extends to the rest of his argument(s), is that "form excludes the content," that is, a particular medium can only sustain a particular level of ideas. Rational argument, an integral component of print typography, cannot be conveyed through the medium of television because "its form excludes the content." Because of this shortcoming, politics and religion get diluted, and "news of the day" is turned into a commodity. Ultimately, presentation most often outweighs quality; all information becomes enslaved to the overarching necessities of entertainment.

Postman objects to the presentation of television news as it is conveyed in the form of entertainment programming. He cites the inclusion of theme music, the interruption of commercials, and "talking hairdos" as the basis for his argument that televised news is presented so that it cannot readily be taken seriously. Postman further examines the differences between written speech, which he argues reached its prime in the early to mid-nineteenth century, and the forms of televisual communication, which rely mostly on visual images to "sell" lifestyles. He argues that politics has ceased to be about whatever ideas or solutions a particular candidate may possess, but instead whether or not they come across in a favourable way on television. Television, he notes, has introduced the phrase "now this", which indicates a complete absence of any connection between one topic and the next. Larry Gonick used this phrase to conclude his Cartoon Guide to (Non)Communication, instead of the traditional "the end".

More at:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusing_Ourselves_to_Death

[bridgit]

72. yes, an amalgam; Japanese advertisers conclude that all essential...

info can be conveyed within 7secs or less, then it's on to the next subject; here in the states we dally them out to 30secs laden with all manner of subliminal message because we here enjoy pretty blinky colors, sexual themes, and 'busy box' mentality = honk-honk, beep-beep 'oh look! a steering wheel & a dancing toad'

they are in those missing moments when whole topics are no longer conveyed but usurped instead

[oc2002]

76. first comes Apathy, then comes Anger, then comes Revolt.

just wait long enough, if we continue long enough on this path.

[bridgit]

77. yes...it's time to Vote!

:patriot:

[Lilith Velkor]

78. Gosh, escalating the War on Drugs worked out really well, didn't it?

In fact, it's done us so much gosh-darn good we should expand it to tobacco! Don't worry about expanding the police state, we wouldn't want "those people" voting for our candidates anyway, right? RIGHT?

:sarcasm: <--for those who do not understand irony

[bridgit]

89. you got that righty-right, LV...

:hi: :smoke:

[Gregorian]

79. Nixon? Reagan? Bush Sr.? Only true if they didn't happen.

Watergate almost didn't happen. Reagan was voted in by sleeping/trusting Democrats. And with all that passed before, Bush Sr. was actually elected!

No way. The America we are seeing has been in the making a long long time. I suggest looking at the character of this country just after world war two. Big party. Better living through chemistry. It all added up to trust in figureheads, and laziness.

[in_cog_ni_to]

80. This is why the Democrats MUST win back Congress.

We have to! There's no if - ands - or buts about it now. These people MUST BE STOPPED and the ONLY way to do that is to win on Novemeber 7. When a Dem House investigates what these people have done, when that info hits the air waves...the yawn will be no more. People will be so shocked to know what "almost" happened that they will become engaged again. Remember Watergate? It took years to get through the investigation, but when the truth was finally revealed, people spoke out and were OUTRAGED that our government was so corrupt. Just a note...that was a REPUBLICAN administration too. Hopefully, people will learn a lesson about voting Repuke. NEVER AGAIN! THE REPUBLICAN PARTY IS CORRUPT TO THE CORE!

[bridgit]

92. agreed...

[nam78_two]

86. I agree with your post

The corporate media, the leaders all have a lion's share of the blame, but people cannot avoid all of it.
I don't mean the people who are doing stuff about but there are a lot of affluent people with time on their hands who do absolutely nothing and they certainly have a portion of the blame :-/ ....