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banana republican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 01:00 AM
Original message
Snips from the Magna Carta
(38) In future no official shall place a man on trial upon his own unsupported statement, without producing credible witnesses to the truth of it.

(39) No free man shall be seized or imprisoned, or stripped of his rights or possessions, or outlawed or exiled, or deprived of his standing in any other way, nor will we proceed with force against him, or send others to do so, except by the lawful judgement of his equals or by the law of the land.

(40) To no one will we sell, to no one deny or delay right or justice.

(52) To any man whom we have deprived or dispossessed of lands, castles, liberties, or rights, without the lawful judgement of his equals, we will at once restore these. In cases of dispute the matter shall be resolved by the judgement of the twenty-five barons referred to below in the clause for securing the peace (§ 61).
In cases, however, where a man was deprived or dispossessed of something without the lawful judgement of his equals by our father King Henry or our brother King Richard, and it remains in our hands or is held by others under our warranty, we shall have respite for the period commonly allowed to Crusaders, unless a lawsuit had been begun, or an enquiry had been made at our order, before we took the Cross as a Crusader. On our return from the Crusade, or if we abandon it, we will at once render justice in full.

(55) All fines that have been given to us unjustly and against the law of the land, and all fines that we have exacted unjustly, shall be entirely remitted or the matter decided by a majority judgement of the twenty-five barons referred to below in the clause for securing the peace (§ 61) together with Stephen, archbishop of Canterbury, if he can be present, and such others as he wishes to bring with him. If the archbishop cannot be present, proceedings shall continue without him, provided that if any of the twenty-five barons has been involved in a similar suit himself, his judgement shall be set aside, and someone else chosen and sworn in his place, as a substitute for the single occasion, by the rest of the twenty-five.

(61) SINCE WE HAVE GRANTED ALL THESE THINGS for God, for the better ordering of our kingdom, and to allay the discord that has arisen between us and our barons, and since we desire that they shall be enjoyed in their entirety, with lasting strength, for ever, we give and grant to the barons the following security:

The barons shall elect twenty-five of their number to keep, and cause to be observed with all their might, the peace and liberties granted and confirmed to them by this charter.

If we, our chief justice, our officials, or any of our servants offend in any respect against any man, or transgress any of the articles of the peace or of this security, and the offence is made known to four of the said twenty-five barons, they shall come to us - or in our absence from the kingdom to the chief justice - to declare it and claim immediate redress. If we, or in our absence abroad the chiefjustice, make no redress within forty days, reckoning from the day on which the offence was declared to us or to him, the four barons shall refer the matter to the rest of the twenty-five barons, who may distrain upon and assail us in every way possible, with the support of the whole community of the land, by seizing our castles, lands, possessions, or anything else saving only our own person and those of the queen and our children, until they have secured such redress as they have determined upon. Having secured the redress, they may then resume their normal obedience to us.


http://www.bl.uk/treasures/magnacarta/translation.html


How pre 1215 of this current administration......
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lovuian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 01:01 AM
Response to Original message
1. Have you read the Count of Monte Cristo???
He was taken in the night falsely accused with no trial and locked up in a Prison on an island...

Thats where we are people...
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banana republican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 01:59 AM
Response to Reply #1
4. Please read the fine print.....
Edited on Thu Oct-19-06 02:00 AM by banana republican
If we, or in our absence abroad the chiefjustice, make no redress within forty days, reckoning from the day on which the offence was declared to us or to him, the four barons shall refer the matter to the rest of the twenty-five barons, who may distrain upon and assail us in every way possible, with the support of the whole community of the land, by seizing our castles, lands, possessions, or anything else saving only our own person and those of the queen and our children, until they have secured such redress as they have determined upon. Having secured the redress, they may then resume their normal obedience to us.


oooooopppps s/b in reply to #2
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 09:28 AM
Response to Reply #1
5. Lettres de cachet - one could anonymously accuse his neighbor
just out of spite - of anything - and buy said neighbor lifetime in prison. It's why the French revolution got strted...you know, them Freedom fries.
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midnight Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 01:14 AM
Response to Original message
2. Can you explain to me how the Magna Carta will
protect American Citizen's from Habeas Corpus being signed away this week.
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Rex Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 01:31 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. It won't, we lost all rights including the magna carta.
All precursor laws before 1250AD are in force now. Fiefdoms, indentured servitude, fun stuff. What is the ruling law? The Divine Right of Kings. I think the BFEE calls it the Unitary Branch. Since it was the time of the commercial revolution, I expect to see consumerism go crazy along with all kinds of corporate sponsorship. Who knows how far it will go.

Don't let cars or the Internet fool you into thinking advanced technology will save us. It just expedites our eventual mental and physical imprisonment. The king still rules, just in a business suit instead of a robe and crown.


Say hi to our rulers American citizens! Our tax dollars paid for it!
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Canuckistanian Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 12:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
9. "Burkina Faso with cable"
Is how some columnist describes the state of America today.
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 09:45 AM
Response to Reply #2
8. Not Magna Carta. The Constitution should. OP meant to highlight
the long history of a right that BFEE terminated. It's good to know.
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The Count Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 09:29 AM
Response to Original message
6. Good times...When you start pining for the Middle Ages you realize
how deep in the hole we are...
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pat_k Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Oct-19-06 09:31 AM
Response to Original message
7. One phrase and people get it: "RIGHTS NOT JUDICIALLY ENFORCEABLE"
You don't need to be a lawyer to be horrified by this one. It is simple.

  1. Every instance of person thoughout this document is qualified in some manner, except ONE.

    For example, we see
    ". . .person who has engaged in hostilities. . ."
    ". . .person who is part of the Taliban. . ."
    ". . .persons who are authorized to detail such counsel for such commissions. . ."
    ". . .person subject to chapter 47 of. . ."
    ". . .person accused of torture. . ."
    ". . .person subject to this chapter. . ."
    ". . .such persons. . ."

    The exception is the provision that STRIPS us of our right to enforce our rights.

    • Final version
      (Enrolled Bill) as passed by both Houses

      SEC. 5. TREATY OBLIGATIONS NOT ESTABLISHING GROUNDS FOR CERTAIN CLAIMS.
      (a) In General- No person may invoke the Geneva Conventions or any protocols thereto in any habeas corpus or other civil action or proceeding to which the United States, or a current or former officer, employee, member of the Armed Forces, or other agent of the United States is a party as a source of rights in any court of the United States or its States or territories.

      To view the bill search at http://thomas.loc.gov (enter "S.3930.ENR" and select the Bill Number radio button. The printer friendly version is easiest to search)


    • Original
      White House version
      SEC. 6. SATISFACTION OF TREATY OBLIGATIONS.
      (b) RIGHTS NOT JUDICIALLY ENFORCEABLE.— (1) IN GENERAL.—No person in any habeas action or any other action may invoke the Geneva Conventions or any protocols thereto as a source of rights, whether directly or indirectly, for any purpose in any court of the United States or its States or territories. . .

      http://www.law.georgetown.edu/faculty/nkk/documents/MilitaryCommissions.pdf


  2. The phrase: "RIGHTS NOT JUDICIALLY ENFORCEABLE."

    The phrase itself demonstrates a recognition that rights actually existed, and the intent to violate those rights through non-enforcement.

    Yes. It is just that simple.

    Case Closed on the newly inaugurated War Criminal Nation.

If they are Rights they Cannot be Unenforceable.

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