I have lost my faith in this party! They no longer represent me and mine!

[rd_kent]

After careful review of the roll call from both the House and Senate regarding the Military Commissons Act, I am dumbfounded by the number of Democrats who voted in favor of this travesty!!!! These people, once again, have shown their true colors and allegience, which is to no one but themselves. Sure, there are some good ones in the bunch (maybe), but in these times, we need every single one of them to stand up and defend American principles and the Constituional rights they swore to protect!!! Any less and I consider them traitors!!!

[TechBear_Seattle]

1. Try being a gay atheist who wants to support the Democrats

My world: welcome to it. :cry:

[Ian David]

2. Ask them if they're being blackmailed by Jeff Gannon. n/t

[IndyOp]

3. We must take over the Democratic Party - to do that we have to elect

the best ones we can find and then beat'em upside the head until they do the right thing.

Where we are right now is a terrible, terrible, terrible place.

What are you going to DO to make things better? Not vote for Dems? Bull.

[rd_kent]

4. What will I do?

I will continue to dedicate my life to this country. I have served in the military for almost 20 years now, and will continue witht that service until the government asks me to personally do something against the Constitution, say like taking you off the street and detaining you. Then I will pack up and leave because if that day ever comes, it will be too late!
Until then, I will vote Dem, down the line, but only because the pendulum needs to swing in the other direction. Politicians are all cut from the same cloth, they just get different color dye. I am NOT IMPRESSED with those who say they are representing me and my rights. Not impressed at all!!!

[helderheid]

9. please look at this

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=364x2431412

[IndyOp]

10. Good - Accept NO imitations. We've got to change

politics by making politics personal - each person, everyday having an impact on our government - of, by, and for the people.

There have been -and still are some- good decent public servants in government: Paul Wellstone, Dennis Kucinich, John Conyers...

And our regular interaction with the people in office - who are persuadable - can raise the standards.

We must. There is so much we need to do...

:kick:

[seabeyond]

5. who has time for this. we need to get dems in. then we shift to

a different way of running the govt. to lose faith and walk now helps no one

[Poll_Blind]

6. Apparently, and I'm being serious here, that's too much to ask.

  I watched an interview with Ted Kennedy (on Yahoo, oddly enough) on the day the torture bill passed the Senate. He said it was one of the darkest days he'd personally ever been witness to in the Senate, and that The Constitution was grievously harmed that day. The format of the interview was based solely on questions posed by Yahoo users and someone, early on, asked the $64,000 question:

"Dear Senator Kennedy, I really am at a loss to express my shock and outrage at the passive response the Democratic has demonstrated to the current bill being bullied and pushed through by the Bush White House and their GOP enablers. Please explain why torture in America is being written into law and you and your colleagues are not completely flipping out and freezing all business in the Senate?"

  Now that's my kind of question. And yours, and many others in this country too, I'll bet.

  I'll let you watch Kennedy's response. Suffice to say, they would have had a filibuster if the 12 turncoat Democrats had not voted for it.

  It's sad. It's something I won't ever forget. But what's done is done. All the Republicans (save one) and 12 (IIRC) Democrats voted to circumvent one of the core tenets of our own country's Constitution. Almost all of them were up for re-election, at least one (in New Jersey, IIRC) voted for it so that come election time his colleague (also from New Jersey) wouldn't have to put up with flack from Republicans about one voting for, one against it. The majority of the others voted for it purely to look "strong on terror" when facing Republican opponents during re-election.

  I have further thoughts on the matter but Senator Kennedy places it in more statesmanlike terms than I would have.

PB

[rd_kent]

8. Exactly!!!!

They are more concerned with keeping their frickking jobs than protecting this country!!!! That the problem, they are only concerned about themselves!!!!!

[Poll_Blind]

15. It's important to quantify the "they" though, it really, sadly is.

  They are a minority in our party, but a minority which composes just over 25% of the Senate Democrats, in this case.

  Those are numbers which I can live with, given the alternatives. However, those 12 votes are going to haunt the Democrats for a long time. I really worry about it coming up in the 2008 Presidential Election. I seriously worry about that.

  Can you see the two candidates up there on stage? The Democratic candidate takes a swipe at the Republican one over the torture legislation. The Republican candidate replies "Well, then how do you explain why over 25% of your own party voted for it?"

  What's the Democratic candidate supposed to say? "Well, those Democrats were just playing politics, they didn't really mean it?"

  Shit, I get upset and nervous when I think about how THAT's going to go down- and that's TWO years off, heh heh!

  BTW, many people suggested upset posters should "Hold your nose and vote for the Dems who voted for this torture legislation". And, I can't...I can't really argue with that. I'm glad I'm not in THAT situation (Ron Wyden voted against it) They say we have a two party system, but that's not really true. There are two ideologies in American politics and each of them have only one (real, at the moment) party to choose from.

  So stick with the Democrats- ride this out a bit longer, it's worth it in my book.

  Oh, and if you want a better perspective, maybe search for "hold your nose" on DU during the time of the 2004 elections. I did, a while back. You might find some wisdom in the similarity to past events.

PB

[rd_kent]

17. I agree, but it is a sad state of affairs.....

.... when we are forced to choose not the BEST candidate, but the lesser of two evils!!!! Sad, sad sad!!!!

[T Roosevelt]

7. Before you get pissed

compare the totals with the Republicans:

Senate
53 Yes
1 No (Chafee)
1 No Vote (Snowe)

House
218 Yes (edited from 219 based on earlier House vote)
7 No
5 No Votes

Does this mean the Dems don't have problems? No. But there is no comparison between the two parties, no equivalence.

[rd_kent]

11. WTF are you looking at?

Here is what I see as the voting record. Check it out!
Senate roll call---http://www.bordc.org/involved/concerned/votingrecords_detail.php?bill=16

House roll call---http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2006/roll508.xml


If Dems had taken a fricking STAND, this could have been defeated with a filibuster!!!!!

[T Roosevelt]

14. I'm looking at the Republican totals

and there is no comparison on the difference between the two parties.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

12. Trust politicians to be politicians first and foremost.

The problems is that we elect "leaders" rather than representatives. In a democracy, we are supposed to be the leaders.

"Pity the country that needs heroes." - Bertolt Brecht

[The2ndWheel]

18. The problem is

that we can't vote for representatives because 1 person can't possibly represent 6 or 700,000 people in the House, and 3 million people in the Senate.

The problem is that if we increased the amount of people in Congress, an even smaller % would get to speak, since that would be too many cooks in the kitchen.

The core problem is scale.

[lonestarnot]

13. I am having a hard time with this one too, but not at the moment.

[originalpckelly]

16. You're right, the top is always corrupt...

no matter how many people at the bottom feel otherwise. It is a fundamental problem with our government.

But we the people of the Democratic party are more important than you think. We have got to start holding these people to account. We ought to announce upon the election of the Congress a policy to remove every single corrupt Dem at the top in the next primary. That might well keep them in line.