Jonah Goldberg: Iraq Was a Worthy Mistake

[BurtWorm]

"Worthy?" :eyes:

http://www.latimes.com/news/opinion/la-oe-goldberg19oct19,0,5993806.column?coll=la-opinion-center

THERE'S A STRICT taboo in the column-writing business against recycling ideas. So let me start with something fresh.

The Iraq war was a mistake.

I know, I know. But I've never said it before. And I don't enjoy saying it now. I'm sure that to the antiwar crowd this is too little, too late, and that's fine because I'm not joining their ranks anyway.

In the dumbed-down debate we're having, there are only two sides: Pro-war and antiwar. This is silly. First, very few folks who favored the Iraq invasion are abstractly pro-war. Second, the antiwar types aren't really pacifists. They favor military intervention when it comes to stopping genocide in Darfur or starvation in Somalia or doing whatever that was President Clinton did in Haiti. In other words, their objection isn't to war per se. It's to wars that advance U.S. interests (or, allegedly, President Bush's or Israel's or ExxonMobil's interests). I must confess that one of the things that made me reluctant to conclude that the Iraq war was a mistake was my general distaste for the shabbiness of the arguments on the antiwar side.

But that's no excuse. Truth is truth. And the Iraq war was a mistake by the most obvious criteria: If we had known then what we know now, we would never have gone to war with Iraq in 2003. I do think that Congress (including Democrats Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Jay Rockefeller and John Murtha) was right to vote for the war given what was known — or what was believed to have been known — in 2003. And the claims from Democrats who voted for the war that they were lied to strikes me as nothing more than cowardly buck-passing.

The failure to find weapons of mass destruction is a side issue. The WMD fiasco was a global intelligence failure, but calling Saddam Hussein's bluff after 9/11 was the right thing to do. Washington's more important intelligence failure lay in underestimating what would be required to rebuild and restore post-Hussein Iraq. The White House did not anticipate a low-intensity civil war in Iraq, never planned for it and would not have deemed it in the U.S. interest to pay this high a price in prestige, treasure and, of course, lives....

[aquart]

1. Never put on a uniform, has he?

[SpreadItAround]

2. The failure to find weapons of mass destruction is a side issue?

Sorry

[babylonsister]

3. He says, from the comfort of his cubicle.

"And the Iraq war was a mistake by the most obvious criteria: If we had known then what we know now, we would never have gone to war with Iraq in 2003. I do think that Congress (including Democrats Hillary Clinton, John Kerry, Jay Rockefeller and John Murtha) was right to vote for the war given what was known — or what was believed to have been known — in 2003. And the claims from Democrats who voted for the war that they were lied to strikes me as nothing more than cowardly buck-passing."

How come this clown doesn't know about all the pre-war intel that's been withheld? Gimme a break. He needs to have a chat with Roberts.

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

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[babylonsister]

13. Please tell me where WMDs were found, because that'd be

big news around here.

"While we were never told it was going to be easy to replace an authoritarian murderous dictator with a freely elected government" -

yes, we were told precisely that. We were told it was going to be a cake walk, we'd be greeted with flowers, peace and democracy would prevail. This admin has been disasterously short-sighted from the get-go. They didn't and don't have a plan, and that's pretty obvious right about now.

And welcome to DU.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

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[babylonsister]

34. Please cite something specific because all I remember are

people like Santorum making ridiculous claims with no facts to back him up.
We should never have gotten involved in Iraq to begin with, we were lied to by our
government, in so many ways. Doesn't that make you angry? I am. Why are you trying
to justify their actions?

[The Stranger]

40. That's just flat-out wrong.

None of the WMD used to justify the invasion was found. After years of embarrassment, someone tried to claim that some old ordnance was banned and should be considered WMD, but it was fabricated after the fact.

Bush told the American people (in the State of the Union address, no less) that there was 25,000 liters of anthrax, 38,000 liters of botulinum, and 500 tons of sarin, mustard and VX nerve agent.

None of it -- but none of it -- was there, and Bush and the Neocons may have known this right from the very start.

[devilgrrl]

42. Notice that links have yet to be provided...

making shit up just so much easier for them?

:eyes:

[babylonsister]

58. I'm trying to get him to provide any useful info, not his

misinformed opinion. But it ain't happenin'.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

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[ScreamingMeemie]

72. Got a link...an area where they were found. Are we talking the

Winnebagos of death again? :hi: :toast: Welcome.

Do you think the WMD's are worth the deaths of so many soldiers? :shrug:

[flyarm]

106. oh nonsence!!..please..this is un-nessary nonsence!! utter

bullshit..there were no wmd..

noneeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

get that straight..please..there were no wmd..there were no wmd..there were no wmd..getting it yet??

fly

[librechik]

132. how about when he told the Polish reporter, "We HAVE found WMDS"

only to be laughed out of Europe for saying that obvious lie?

That was a pretty big deal, until he was debunked.

[grizmaster]

55. can we have some specific facts and links?

[flyarm]

84. no wmd have been found please stop the bullshit!!..it will not fly

where people have paid attention..and most of us here paid attention!!

please go into the archives here..you will see ..nothing was found..zero zip zilch nada!!

do not even try to convince anyone here wmd were found..they were not!


and welcome to du./.but please do read alot more before posting rubbish here.,.thank you!
fly

[soulcore]

93. please back up your assertion

that WMD's were found with verifiable, credible sources.

Otherwise, piss off.

[alfredo]

114. there were a few pre 1991 rounds found, but the charge

had degraded to the point where it was unusable. There was no sign of post 1991 WMD's found. The sanctions and the precision bombing destroyed what capabilities remaining. the 1998 Desert Fox delivered a knock out blow to Saddam's military. After that his country was defenseless.

Saddam was surrounded, disarmed and helpless. He couldn't buy a pack of foreign cigarettes without it being known by the UN. Still, he was powerful enough to keep al Qaeda and Iran out of his country. Now Iraq is controlled by Iran, and al Qaeda is in control of Anbar province.

[Name removed]

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[Richard Steele]

71. Yes, we've all seen the phoney, staged-propaganda statue-toppling.

It was as fake as your hero's cowboy act.
Thanks for playing.

[Name removed]

Deleted message

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[Richard Steele]

119. Your contempt for facts and reason...

...is clearly not that variety which FAMILIARITY breeds.

CLOSE-UP of "crowd" (aka: your fantasy):


ACTUAL crowd, aka "reality":


Not to mention that several US troops who were THERE
have admitted that WE conceived and staged the event....

[alfredo]

137. The people at the toppling were members of Chalabi's militia.

It was staged for the camera. Normal, everyday Iraqis were not invited. They were kept at bay by tanks and soldiers.

[Change has come]

77. 12 happy Iraqies

How many of them are still alive?

[Name removed]

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[Downtown Hound]

124. What great freedom it turned out to be

Where more Iraqis have died than under Saddam's rule.

[flyarm]

143. Marine colonel, not Iraqis, spurred toppling of Saddam statue

http://www.fpp.co.uk/online/04/07/Iraq_statue.html



Sunday, July 4, 2004




Marine colonel, not Iraqis, spurred toppling of Saddam statue

By Los Angeles Times

The statue of Iraqi President Saddam Hussein
is pulled down in central Baghdad on April 9, 2003.

WASHINGTON -- The U.S. Army's internal study of the war in Iraq criticizes some efforts by its own psychological operations (PSYOP) units, but one spur-of-the-moment effort last year produced the most memorable image of the invasion.

As the Iraqi regime was collapsing on April 9, 2003, U.S. Marines converged on Firdos Square in central Baghdad, site of an enormous statue of Saddam Hussein. It was a Marine colonel -- not joyous Iraqi civilians, as was widely assumed from the TV images -- who decided to topple the statue, the Army report said. And it was a quick-thinking Army PSYOP team that made it appear to be a spontaneous Iraqi undertaking.

After the colonel, who was not named in the report, selected the statue as a "target of opportunity," the PSYOP team used loudspeakers to encourage Iraqi civilians to assist, according to an account by a PSYOP team member.
But Marines had draped an American flag over the statue's face. "God bless them, but we were thinking from PSYOP school that this was just bad news," the PSYOP member wrote in the report. "We didn't want to look like an occupation force, and some of the Iraqis were saying, 'No, we want an Iraqi flag!' "

[soothsayer]

85. LOL! Didn't you ever see the wide angle shot of that sparse

group of paid (what were they--Iranians? Kuwaitis? Israelis?) pretending to be Iraqis?

It was PATHETIC! Glad some dumbass fell for that phoney photo-op.

[Coexist]

90. You mean THIS HUGE crowd of people celebrating??!

[blitzen]

92. happy CIA Ops and Paid Chalabi Stooges

all 100 of 'em...I guess you never saw the wide angle shot of the staged statue toppling event

[Old and In the Way]

98. I specificly remember them saying we were 45 minutes from mushroom

clouds. Nothing was found that justified an illegal and immoral invasion and occupation of Iraq. You are another factless Bush-stooge. Enjoy your short time here.

[Sir Jeffrey]

99. "Cake walk"

Adelman: Liberating Iraq would be a cakewalk
Feb. 13, 2002
Ken Adelman
"I believe demolishing Hussein's military power and liberating Iraq would be a cakewalk.” - Washington Post


Rumsfeld: Five days or five months, but it certainly isn't going to last longer
Nov. 15, 2002
Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
"The idea that it's going to be a long, long, long battle of some kind I think is belied by the fact of what happened in 1990," he said on an Infinity Radio call-in program. "Five days or five weeks or five months, but it certainly isn't going to last any longer than that."

Rumsfeld: I Doubt Six Months
Feb. 7, 2003
Donald Rumsfeld, Secretary of Defense
"It is unknowable how long that conflict will last. It could last six days, six weeks. I doubt six months." —to U.S. troops in Aviano, Italy

Perle: days or weeks -- this will be a short war
Mar. 25, 2003
Richard Perle, Chairman of the Defense Policy Board
I can't tell you exactly how many days or how many weeks. But by
historical standards, this will be a short war.

Cheney: In weeks rather than months
Mar. 16, 2003
Dick Cheney
"My belief is we will, in fact, be greeted as liberators. . . . I think it will go relatively quickly, . . . weeks rather than months." --on NBC's Meet the Press

[babylonsister]

107. Thanks for those quotes. I was close! nt

[babylonsister]

102. Try this one on for size, and a quote no less, easily verified.

"It's a slam-dunk case!" –CIA Director George Tenet, discussing WMD and the case for war during a meeting in the Oval Office, Dec. 21, 2002

[wicket]

110. The saddam statue toppling was psy-ops

Add one more thing to the long list of things you are willfully ignorant of.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2001971815_statue04.html

[uncle ray]

121. .

:rofl:

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

123. You know, you're right...

There certainly does seem to be a lot of people there. Wait a minute...something seems odd. Let's pull back a bit



Whoah! Are those tanks in that square? What about this "spontaneous uprising of the people"?
Hell, the BBC reported it Live. But it sure looks pre-planned to me.



No, something's definitely not right there. Hrm...seems like a few less people than the "liberal" media indicated.
Let's get a little bit of information about this, shall we?



Um...er...yeah...well, then. Looks like the reports of this "spontaneous" uprising were completely full of shit
At least Chalabi was happy.
So, you happy that it was all a photo-op now?

Keep fighting on, 101st Fighting Keyboarder!

ON EDIT: I see our guest has departed. :hi: to all above who were faster on the mouse button than I was.

[wicket]

127. Stop it, you're KILLING me!!!!

:rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl:

[Hong Kong Cavalier]

131. Glad to be of service.

:hi:

[stop the bleeding]

135. same here that was awesome

:toast:

[Old and In the Way]

125. You mean Chalabi's paid-to-perform entourage?

Gawd, it's pretty pathetic to see someone still determined to prop up the boyking's warcrimes in Iraq. Hope you are getting at least financially compensated to humiliate yourself here.

[flyarm]

139. ahhh hellooo that statue b.s. was a photo opp..most there were us soldiers

Iraqi's had to be begged to go watch our soldiers take the statue down..are you really this ignorant to the real facts???????

wow you people come here so late to the dance not many articles still link up..but this is from my files..the link no longer works..you can pay for the archived article..there is enough here to get it from archives..

http://www.editorandpublisher.com/eandp/index.jsp

please do and inform yourself..you would not want to look so uninformed ..i am sureeeeeeeeeee of that!! lol

xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

From the linked article:from editor and publisher

"The demonstration overflowed Firdos Square, where protesters pulled down a towering statue of Saddam Hussein two years ago to the day.(AP Photo/Karim Kadim)"

But the REAL truth as admitted by the Pentagon is that this was a STAGED PSYOP!



When Saddam Fell: How the Press was Misled From Day One

By E&P Staff

Published: July 05, 2004

NEW YORK They were the shots seen 'round the world: newspaper photographs and TV images of jubilant Iraqis toppling a giant statue of Saddam Hussein in Baghdad on April 9, 2003, shortly after the U.S. military chased him out of town. Now, after months of rumors, the U.S. military has confirmed that the entire stunt was conceived by the U.S. military and enacted with the help of a fast-thinking Army psychological operation (PSYOP).


fly

[Igel]

141. Ken Adelman.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A1996-2002Feb12

And newscasters used it as the US started its jaunt to Baghdad, recalling Adelman. Of course the jaunt quickly turned into quagmire, as they stopped outside Baghdad for days.

A few (Perle among them) said that demolishing Iraq's military would be relatively easy. I think I agree with them. It was.

They hoped to be able to decapitate the government, and keep everything neck down (a different sort of capitation than taking out Saddam by a bomb). *That* was the post-war plan. But when the army and police and civil servants vanished ... at least many civil servants returned when called. The military didn't return. The army was out for a few weeks, with demands for pay, and so it was disbanded.

Rummie and * were careful not to use the term, and I remember one of Rummie's pronouncements that said he didn't expect it to be a cakewalk--nay-saying the commentators while the war was on-going.

I'd love a quote from either * or Rumsfeld asserting that it would be a "cakewalk".

[AlCzervik]

15. WMDS were found? Were they in Saddams big purse?

i have a purse like that i take to the movies so i can smuggle in my own stuff.

[Nite Owl]

64. I think they found

remnants of stuff from the war with Iran. Pretty outdated and not viable. And since the CIA still has the receipts on those they didn't want to make a big thing out it.

[BurtWorm]

16. The UN authorized the invasion?

Where are you getting your information from?

[Name removed]

21. Deleted message

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[BurtWorm]

25. Which resolution number was that?

I recall the US being forced to drop getting the UN's stamp of approval because they couldn't get it out of the security council.

[Name removed]

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[BurtWorm]

36. Where is the language that authorizes a military strike?

I only see something to the effect "reaffirming the sovereignty and territorial integrity of Iraq."

[MrCoffee]

65. Whoa....1441 was NOT an authorization for war.

1441 authorized UNMOVIC and the IAEA to step up their inspection regimens.

http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N02/682/26/PDF/N0268226.pdf?OpenElement

[Lex]

126. His reading comprehension is not so good apparently. nt

[Kahuna]

27. Bull crap!! Back to freepville for you! The UN voted against the

invasion. We know, because many of us wrote and emailed members of the Security Council asking them to do just that! The UN approved inspectors were on the ground when your chimperor kicked them out so he could get his war on. YOur chimperor promised to go back to the UN pending the results of the inspections, but he never did because HE'S A LIAR!!!! Get it!

[Name removed]

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[devilgrrl]

39. Hey Mr. Goldberg!!!!

Still too big of a pussy to enlist?

:hi:

[Name removed]

44. Deleted message

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[BurtWorm]

45. Poor pathetic guy. At least you know your limitations.

:hi:

[devilgrrl]

47. I take it that the mods are wrangling miscreants in droves today?

Seeing that this bush-boffing git is still here.

[Name removed]

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[Lex]

61. Right-wing fantasies in the form of "free speech" is what you have

and that's not tolerated much around here.

[Name removed]

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[devilgrrl]

81. You're not expressing an opinion - you're making shit up!

Big difference asswipe.

[aquart]

100. Honey, a Republican wouldn't know that.

They ain't reality based.

[Lex]

108. LIES get challenged around here.

How hard is this to understand? Too tough for you?

[sakabatou]

62. We are

Just not uninformed trolls like you.

[Name removed]

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[BurtWorm]

104. Informationally challenged, more like it.

;)

[Kadie]

113. "differently informed"? You need to change the channel. n/t

[Lex]

He's been lied to by Bush and he *still* believes the BS.

It's kind of quaint, isn't it?

[stop the bleeding]

79. free speech is fine, it is the

assholes who really create the problem(s)

enjoy your stay - btw get your facts straight and provide more than Wiki links - :eyes:

[Change has come]

97. free speech is fine

it's the regurgitated talking points you are trying to pass off as original thought that is so trollish.

How nice of the Mods to let us play.

[Jacobin]

101. There's a difference between free speech and making shit up

You are welcome to try that here, but making shit up doesn't fly too well here.

[Lex]

117. I guess this one thinks he can lie like his "President" and we'll swallow

it like his followers do.

[Downtown Hound]

111. This is a Democratic board asswipe

If you want to go spout your idiocies on a RW board then be my guest. We are under no obligation to tolerate you here.

[TK421]

112. You Dems?

:D

[nofurylike]

128. please pay close attention to this:

we've no *responsibility* to educate you,

but

people here have tried. they let you go on, and tried to reason with you.

if you do not value that, and try to grasp what's handed you as a magnanimous gift, that really, truly is your deficiency, not that of those who go beyond the call trying to teach you.

no bother replying. i'm just passing through and marveling at the generosity of so many in letting you go on so long, and even once you'd gotten so belligerent.

freeps'd've long since tossed the likes of you

g'day

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

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[devilgrrl]

46. You haven't made any convincing arguements thus so far...

just throw shit at a wall and see if anything sticks. Your shit is so old and dried out it bounced off years ago. You should get out more.

[JetCityLiberal]

59. This one is spreading their typical right wing racist bs

over in LBN....they love their racist bigotry, cling to it. Must be their inbreeding...

[hatrack]

18. Tell me more about the WMDs we found. This is Big Breaking News!

Please, I'm on the edge of my chair.

[Kahuna]

26. Whatever. You need to put down that Kool Aid bro. There never

should have been an invasion. PERIOD!!! They did nothing to us. Get it? They were not able to defend themselves! Get it! What we did was immoral and cowardly. Get it!

[Name removed]

33. Deleted message

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[devilgrrl]

38. You're more full shit than a whale without an ass.

And who cares if this post is deleted. You're a MORON (MORAN)!

[Name removed]

43. Deleted message

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[devilgrrl]

49. You going to provide any links to your assertions Sparky?????

Come on freeper let's see the evidence.

[Name removed]

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[Greyhound]

69. and yet you knew where the other freepers hang out...

C'mon man, I know you are unaccustomed to dealing with people that are comfortable thinking, but you have to be a little less obvious.

Try to hold this though in your atrophied brain as you make up your next handle. Nice knowing you. :hi:

[wicket]

94. Have you enlisted yet???

[Sydnie]

109. that's ok with them though

They, as you know, don't show up for them either!


Now take this and move along.

[hatrack]

53. Got any links about the WMDs we "found"?

Still waiting with bated breath.

[Richard Steele]

60. That's because we love TRUTH...and you don't have any.

[Deep13]

80. Speaking of which,...

...are OBGYNs still free to practice love with their women?

Feeling the love? Sorry the '70s are over and things are too horrible to be mellow about it. I bought a gun for the first time after Bush was "re-elected" because I thought Fundy assholes were going to lynch me or burn my house down.

[PunkPop]

83. Typical rightwing fallacy

Liberals are tolerant of differing opinions based on facts not the bullshit you're spewing.

[wicket]

88. We're not tolerant of willful idiots

:nopity:

[Gormy Cuss]

95. Welcome to DU

As you have been informed, when one makes claims such as "there were WMDs found" the natural response here is to ask for documentation through links or citation. What you may not have understood is that there is little tolerance for posters who refuse to back up such claims and even less tolerance of posters who then whine that folks here are intolerant of free speech because DUers haven't taken the claim on faith.

Please back up your assertions or admit that you can't. The latter doesn't mean that your assertion is wrong, just that you are not equipped to have a fact-based discussion on the issue.

[fooj]

56. Freely elected?

Is that why we have replaced who the Iraqi people ELECTED? BWAHAHAHA! I think I'll pass on the kool-aid! LOL

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

57. Bock?

Isn't that a noise a chicken makes?

[Name removed]

68. Deleted message

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[CatWoman]

73. as in "bock, bock, bock"

you chickenhawks all sound alike.

[Lex]

129. LOL! Chickenhawk indeed.

Too funny, CatWoman!

[BurtWorm]

144. Ha ha!

:spray:

:applause:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

75. No, but I know you.

You talk the talk, but you don't walk the walk.

[Name removed]

96. Deleted message

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[HiFructosePronSyrup]

103. Sure.

The outhouse and a hole in the ground.

But seriously... shouldn't you be in school right now?

[Name removed]

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[HiFructosePronSyrup]

122. Oh, I know you pretty well.

For example, I know you're either a teenager, or you've finished high school but weren't paying much attention.

[wicket]

120. I know Bock too, he's the guy pictured here:

:rofl:

[Richard Steele]

140. "Good German™ Freeper Bock"

[Deep13]

66. It was the only justification. I heard Powell speak.

Even then we did not have U.N. approval per treaty requirements.

Our biggest mistake was electing (sort of) a guy who would be pumping gas in Houston if his name wasn't George Bush because he seemed like a nice guy. Apparently most of us forgot we were electing the guy whose finger is on the nuclear (NEW-clear) button and not a prom queen.

[acmavm]

67. Usually I miss these loonies but here's one and it is proud

as hell of its delusions. Bat shit crazy with access to a computer thinking they're typing out God's message for the world. Is that the definition of a freeper.)

[Name removed]

105. Deleted message

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[jsamuel]

136. You might enjoy free speech a little more if the speech was well researche

d, had verifiable sources, and wasn't laced with truthiness.

[flyarm]

70. drinking that koolaide ..are you?? don't choke on it!!..n/t

[Downtown Hound]

76. You are a dumb fuck

Get your ass to Iraq and get your ass blown up and then we won't have to listen to your bullshit anymore!

[wicket]

82. Wanna know how we knew Saddam had WMDs?

Because we still had the receipts from when Reagan sold them to him!!!!

[RobertSeattle]

87. Bock - rhymes with Chickenhawk

[whistle]

89. You trolling Bock?

[IdaBriggs]

91. Repeating your lies doesn't make them so. Ignorant Republican.

But, since you are a Pedophile Loving Racist Homophobic Coward, that really is all you have, isn't it? A rich, vivid fantasy life to help you hope for heaven, instead of the place you, as an enabling murderous traitor are going to end up.

And by the way, its obvious you are a TROLL!

[Temporary1]

118. It was not legal at all

Not constitutional to have congress declare war; and the Secretary general has said the invasion is illegal, as no resolution authorized an invasion of sovereign states that is illegal unless the Security Council authorizes it in the case of sovereignty breaches or genocide.

[babylonsister]

133. Bye bye, Bock! Thanks, mods! nt

[bluestateguy]

134. Before the mods delete your post and your account

WMDs have been found but they weren't the sole or even main issue justifying our invasion. Congress and the U.N. both pretty well authorized it with their resolutions so it was legal by any sane definition.

Anyone THAT misinformed should not be allowed anywhere near a polling place.

We need intelligence tests and current events tests to qualify people for voting.

[lcordero2]

4. This guy is an idiot

"wars that advance U.S. interests" do not. These wars hinder trade, relations, and put Americans in danger all over the world.

[SmokingJacket]

5. Such, SUCH horseshit.

"If we had known then what we know now..." Asshole!! We did know!!!!!!!

*I* knew it would turn out badly, that there were no WMD, and that Bushco had other motives for invading, and that it would be hard to leave and would fail in its "mission" to bring "western style democracy," and that it would cost buttloads upon buttloads of dollars.

And I'm just some lady with a computer, so don't give me that crap, Jonah "Thanks for the job, Mom," Goldberg.

[rosesaylavee]

6. Its been awhile since I read

a subject headline that made me gasp out loud. Thanks Jonah. As me dear sweet mother used to say - someone should tear you down and build a human.

[BurtWorm]

7. "the shabbiness of the arguments"

For example:

"I must confess that one of the things that made me reluctant to conclude that the Iraq war was a mistake was my general distaste for the shabbiness of the arguments on the antiwar side."

[BOSSHOG]

12. Truth is shabby to the unwashed.

I told the fucking truth in November 2002 and was verbally assaulted, had my patriotism questioned amongst other things. Although no pencil dicked chickenhawk free republic geek motherfucker attempted anything physical with me. My hate is rational. Our kids are dying and goldberg is enabling a liar.

[BOSSHOG]

8. Go To Iraq bitch and get blown up by an IED in a worthy manner

goldberg, chickenhawk fucking scum. He has been a bush enabler for the past three years and should go to jail as well. My hate is rational. My teammates are shedding blood in Iraq so fucking garbage like goldberg can make excuses for a drug addled intentional liar. Yeah, motherfuckers my hate is rational.

[rurallib]

10. Not "if we knew then what we know now" but

"if we knew then what Bushco knew then".
Ever wonder what Goldberg would be saying if he was writing from say Fallujah where he was in his 4th tour and it finally dawned on him how and why this war came to be?
Jonah Goldberg is not a worthy mistake.

[meegbear]

11. So I shot and killed my wife because I thought she was a burglar ...

for the sake of protecting my house and family, it was a worthy mistake.

[Fleshdancer]

14. I use to think Vietnam was a useful mistake because we learned from it....

the Iraq war proves me WRONG on that brain dead concept. We apparently didn't learn a damn thing.

We sacrificed Afghanistan in order to move on to Iraq. We spent billions of dollars and shed blood for a lie. We ignored our generals and leaders on the ground for political reasons. We now have a country in chaos and in the beginning of what will be a very brutal civil war and we have created more instability in a region that will most likely put us in more danger down the road. We have committed heinous acts of torture and we lost what respect we had from the rest of the world.

The only positive thing I can see come from this hell is charging those responsible with war crimes and for the PNAC to disband completely and forever. If this doesn't happen however, then nothing worthy will come of this.

[Orsino]

17. It-was-a-mistake-but-whatever is NOT "fresh"...

It was a tired idea years ago, JG. You're just the eighth-to-last person in America to realize that the war was a massive error and failure, and you're still not admitting that the antiwar protestors were right.

You're a corporate whore, and you're out of gas. Next time, save the column inches and mutter it into your bottle.

[Cha]

19. WE don't want you,

clusterfuck.

[mattomjoe]

20. Have these fuckers ever been able to own up to a "mistake"

without throwing in some qualifier spin while they are at it?

[pooja]

22. What is happening in this world is not worthy. We are not in the dark

ages. We all have computers. We interact on a worldwide basis. We are more connected than ever before, yet the wars are worst and the atrocities against humanity increase in violence and perversion with the technologically advanced forms of murder. We should be living in a time with peace and harmony. Who would have ever thought the United States would have been ended formerly on Oct 18, 2006? Who would have ever thought we would have more sickness than healing? I never thought I would see it. The only thing left is to take back the power in your state. Work harder than ever for local elected officials who want a better community. You tax dollars start at the bottom first. Work hard. Go to every meeting. Be informed. Know what you need to know. Your choice of good working local govt will expound itself. Its time to go small.... Globalization has lead us to this. Grassroots. Positive thinking. Positive direction. AND..its not anti-war, its PEACE, its TRANQUILTY, its HAPPINESS, and its LIBERTY.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

23. 655,000 dead Iraqis....Ooopsies!

You can be prosecuted and jailed for making a "mistake" on your income tax. But, the murder of 655,000 people is a mere
bagatelle.

[Beelzebud]

24. And Jonas was just a mistake.

[npincus]

28. Easy to say with no skin in the game

Another armchair warrior.

YAWN.

[dkofos]

29. 100,000 + dead is not a worthy mistake, it's a WAR CRIME

[shanti]

35. suuuure it is....

:( try telling that to dead soldiers' families...

[union_maid]

37. Delusional

To make the argument that those people who didn't see the debacle coming and thought the war was a good idea are somehow more right than the people who could see what a mistake it was going to be and were right all along shows an amazing ability to live in a state of denial. Bob Woodward may have had trouble picking a side, but he knows how to pick a title.

[The Stranger]

41. The Neocons knew that this would result in Iraq.

The State Department and CIA were on record at the time saying as much.

But the Neocons also knew that there would be no way out of it, once they fucked the U.S. into it.

[Dhalgren]

116. Right! Remember Powell's "Pottery Barn" statement? That was

back when he and the rest of the State Dept. was arguing against the invasion, BECAUSE THEY SAID THAT IT WOULD LIKELY TURN OUT LIKE THIS! Later, Powell and the rest sold their souls to the Demon King, but don't anyone ever say to me that "no one foretold" that this would happen...

[Johonny]

51. well

Then of course I expect him to pony up the money for it. Lets have a deal all the Americans that think it's worth it can check a box and send an extra 100 $ on their next tax return. Based on the number of 100 $ checks we can tell real fast how many Americans really think it's worth it.

[SoCalDem]

130. Well someone in the admin called it a catastrophic success

didn't they?

[Rob H.]

142. That was the Prez himself calling it that before sElection 2004

Here's the full quote: "Had we had to do it over again, we would look at the consequences of catastrophic success, being so successful so fast that an enemy that should have surrendered or been done in escaped and lived to fight another day."

Uh, George, if the enemy escapes and lives to fight another day, that's FAILURE, not success!

[Greyhound]

138. "global intelligence failure"?

Do these idiots have even a tenuous grasp of reality? I find it hard to believe that anyone that mentally defective has the ability to find food on a daily basis, let alone write a column.

98% of the global intelligence was 100% correct, the cabal had to look very hard to find the 2% (or just make it up) that they used to establish and reinforce their lies.

[FogerRox]

145. Too damned funny.

[Critters2]

146. Jonah seems like a big, strapping, healthy young man

who thinks going to war in Iraq was a great idea. So, why isn't he over there right now, looking for wmd and enjoying some of that newly-formed democracy?

Hmmm?

[spanone]

147. "and I don't enjoy saying it now". Hey, fuck you Jonah.

You should feel good that you have allowed truth into your narrow minded shit for nothing brain.

[Jcrowley]

148. What do you mean "was" Jonah?

That untidy "mistake" you know murder, disease, terror etc... is a daily event. And you know Jonah you can still get a flight over and experience it first hand. After all it's just a mistake, no biggie.

I'll chip in for your flight to help you out there Jonah.

Great Jonah explores "the shades of grey" in mass murder.

And hey the whole reason for the invasion , BIG LIE, is now just a side dish on Jonah's disinformation piece.

What a fuckin' coward.