Anyone catch Dobbs and his guest blame the Iraq mess on everyone but Bush?

[NNN0LHI]

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0610/19/ldt.01.html

<snip>DOBBS: That is as candid an assessment as I believe you could ask for. "Disheartening" -- your reaction to that language on the part of General Caldwell.

BRIG. GEN. DAVID GRANGE (RET.), CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Well, very upfront. You know, he's talking about tactics changing every day and how this thing is going. You know, foot soldier against foot soldier produces an inherent, continuous casualty rate that does not show any benefit to the cause, and it reduces the resolve, the national will to continue the fight.

So what has to happen is a shift in strategy, which is overarching, that will change the means, all the resources to make this thing winnable.

DOBBS: At what point, General Grange -- and I know you've never been faced with this in your career, but at what point with -- and you and I have talked about just what outstanding troops this country has. Those young men and women are the best we've ever put in the field.

Are our generals matching them in capability and character and imagination? And at what point do we have to say, General Grange, these generals aren't getting the job done and somebody has to be fired and moved out and somebody better found?

GRANGE: I've got to refocus this question.

DOBBS: No, don't refocus the question. Answer the question.

GRANGE: No, it's not about the generals. No, Lou, it's not just about the generals. This is about unity. It's about a failure of the entire country, all the elements of the country -- the government, the media, everybody else that's involved -- to get together to win this thing. This is not about losing. I mean, it's like we want to lose. I mean, why don't we just beat ourselves? We want to win.

[leftchick]

1. good little ex-soldier and current war profiteer

always thinking we can "WIN" so the profits keep rolling in!

[brentspeak]

2. Dobbs is excellent

One of the few commentators who's speaking up on behalf of the working and middle class.

[NNN0LHI]

5. Rush Limbaugh always speaks up on behalf of the working and middle class

Got to watch out for them "welfare queens".

Don

[brentspeak]

7. You're comparing Lou Dobbs to Limbaugh???

When's the last time Lou Dobbs was going after "welfare queens"? For that matter, when's the last time Rush Limbaugh attacked the "free trade" agreements and the shoddy state of our electoral integrity?

[NNN0LHI]

8. Yes I am comparing the two. I have done so many times here

They both use the same playbook. Its us against them. Them being anyone not white. The scam works like a charm on a certain segment of our society.

Don

[brentspeak]

14. "Them being anyone not white"

So you're playing the race card in your quest to demonize Lou Dobbs? It makes sense that you would resort to a desperate ploy like that, since your past accusations of Dobbs being a "corporate shill" are so manifestly ridiculous considering the way he routinely blasts them.

[NNN0LHI]

16. Wrong. I didn't stoop to anything

I was pointing out that Dobbs and Limbaugh both use the race card for the people who tend to be weak minded and eat up that kind of thing.

Don

[brentspeak]

18. You're stooping even lower

Besides the fact that you're still using the logical fallacy of associating Dobbs to Limbaugh -- even though it's already been demonstrated to you that no comparison or connection can be made -- you're implying (without actually saying it) that people who watch Dobbs are racists.

[BlooInBloo]

25. Wow. You're a true genius.

[NNN0LHI]

27. Here we go again. Let me be clearer here

Lou Dobbs is a racist prick who tries to appeal to other racist pricks.

Now if someone says that is not the part of Dobbs that they admire fine. Perhaps they just like the comforting sound of his voice?

Leave it at that.

Don

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

37. Dobbs is obviously a racist prick.

It's not that the people who watch Dobbs are racists.

People who agree with Dobbs on the other hand...

[sam sarrha]

23. it is either ignorant or just trollish to say any criticism is unacceptable,

if that is what you are doing.. it is TOTALLY unacceptable to NOT criticize Fascism and the the people who support it... nothing is too bad or unacceptable to be said about those who seek to destroy our constitution as it is now being dismantled.

dobbs is using open forums to discuss the problems.. i think that is what offends you.. the truth, and those that speak it.. Limbaugh is a bag of rancid fascist shit.. he does nothing but spew his GOP propaganda Apriori filth and gloat about the suffering it causes the poor and disenfranchised.:rant:

[Marie26]

40. Case in point

My personal favorite Lou Dobbs moment was when he contented that Venezuela & Hugo Chavez are aligned w/Hizbollah. The reasoning in this segment was a little unclear, but it seemed to boil down to: The both don't like the US, and they're both brown-skinned. When he sees the world through a racist "us vs. them" prism, anyone in the "them" category starts to seem aligned against him.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

41. My personal favorite...

was when he was foaming at the mouth over the Mexican flag, somebody asked him about the Irish flag at St. Patrick's day, and Dobbs, realizing he had painted himself into a corner, said that Americans should celebrate St. Patrick's day either.

[ComerPerro]

45. That made for some nice Daily Show flak

[sam sarrha]

21. are you serious.. i am seriously asking this question and want an answer

[ComerPerro]

44. Careful. Apparently criticizing conservative icon Lou Dobbs is not allowed

I don't know why.

And you make a fantastic point.

So many people worship Dobbs because he claims to speak for the middle class.

But, this very OP illustrates that Dobbs simply doesn't give a fuck. He only pretends to speak for the middle class, like Limbaugh does, because he knows it will get him ratings, and because some people are stupid enough to believe that he is a champion of the working class just because he says he is.

Meanwhile, all he does is worship conservatism and scapegoat.

[Marie26]

46. Anyone who's read his biography

knows he doesn't speak for the middle class. He's been in Harvard economics, Wall Street high finance & corporate boards his whole life.

[ComerPerro]

49. Anyone who has watched his show for five minutes knows this too, lol

[sam sarrha]

20. strange he gets such criticism for not doing more being the only one on CNN

[ComerPerro]

50. And Bill O'Reiley should be praised too

because, not only is he "Looking Out For You", but he is an independent who attacks extremists on both sides equally.


How do I know this?

Because OhReally says so, every day, on his show...

[TAPat]

3. Caught him blaming the Generals on Mahr's (sp?) show

the other night... But they're just following orders from the commander in thief, aren't they?

Geez, Lou.

[maine_raptor]

4. Ya, that pisses me off about Lou, too.

It's like he can't (or won't) see the logical progression. After all, they were just following orders. right?

[sam sarrha]

24. the generals are to blame, they are just flying monkeys of Bush, they

deserve critism... they got where they are playing soldier at the cost of other soldiers.

there are dozens of generals and officers who have retired to criticize bush and the war.

you are spring loaded in the negative position.. here a TRUTH, it is my favorite quote,

'a negative thought continues and increases exponentially until replaced by a positive thought, the positive thought, however must be cultivated'.. do you get invited to parties much..?

[TAPat]

30. Gee, I'm so terribly sorry that my thoughts

are not to your liking - need I add the sarcasm?.

Who died and made you the 'party invite' god? And besides that, I don't think I would accept an invitation to a party where my opinions were not as valued as the host's.

I have had to say this alot lately: Thank heavens for free speech...

Or maybe not so much anymore.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[TAPat]

32. Joking? Troll?

:rofl:

It is clear that you admire Lou, and good for you.

Some of don't, and good for us.

Calling me out as a troll doesn't seem to be *positive thinking* :eyes:

[sam sarrha]

34. just an observation.. i dont delight over it like you seem to..

[TAPat]

35. Now you've just completely lost me...

What am I supposed to be delighting in?

The fact that you lecture me about my *negative* thoughts when I have every damn right to express my opinions here the same way you do?

That you seem to deliberately misunderstand my sarcasm in response to your lecture?

That you accuse me of being a troll? It seems that you believe that criticizing Lou Dobbs for not placing the blame for the absolute mess that is Iraq where it squarely belongs (at the feet of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, the Republican Congress and everyone who voted for them) makes me a Republican Operative or a freeper. I am laughing at your faulty logic.

I have not attacked your opinion on this matter - I am simply responding to your PERSONAL slights which have nothing to do with the OP.

Now for my PERSONAL slight: I'm off to scrub my brain, hard.

[sam sarrha]

36. cynicism is narcissistic and addictive... and unproductive ineffective and

inappropriate.

it is Neurotic= something someone does that makes them and people around them unhappy compulsively

and being a compulsion it involves Denial.. you might need to re access things. cynicism can lead to bigotry.. it only gets worse.. i have been there and done that, i now regret it..

[TAPat]

39. You're good enough, you're smart enough and by golly

people like you! :)

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[NNN0LHI]

53. Hey TAPat. Do me a favor

Remind me to never piss you off.

B-)

Don

[TAPat]

55. But, but, but...

YOU never piss me off! :hug:

[symbolman]

6. Yep

Dobbs was pushing it heavily on the Bill Mahr show a few weeks ago, always straining like he has to pass a huge turd, yet glowing at his personal feeling that he's a Big Old Tub of Gravitas, he was making noises like, "Well, it doesn't MATTER HOW we got here, we need to LOOK to the future and what we're going to DO about it.."

I expect this will be the Repig MEME for a LONG time, that and FORGIVENESS as the Amish Might forgive a serial killer.

"Nevermind HOW we got here, (yeah, not Bush's RESPONSIBILITY, NOR do we JAIL Cheney and Rumsfeld for War Profiteering), NOW we need to DO THE RIGHT THING.."

Couple that with Repigs screaming how if they had known that Saddam DIDN'T have WMD's they would have NEVER voted for this 'war'..

SCUM, I have more respect for the SCUM on the base of my shower curtains. :)

[Hubert Flottz]

10. CNN has been taken over by hacks and trolls...

A total GOP party organ now. I miss Ted Turner.

[symbolman]

12. Hey Hubert

Have you heard from OPI since the Earthquake? I suppose I should call him, just wondering if he'd okay..

Don't want HIM disappeared either :)

[Hubert Flottz]

22. I saw a post by Cat Woman that said he's okay and would BB...

Saturday or Sunday. I think he had a power surge or something, that blew out his puter. She said she'd spoken with him on the phone and that he was fine.

I was afraid that the Freepers drones had captured him again. Did he ever tell you, about being a captive and tortured by the Freeper Hordes? He went missing for days and days that time and I allowed he was a goner for sure, but he escaped to fight another day!

[symbolman]

33. Facing the Spears in a circle?

I heard something like that while visiting him :)

THanks for the info I should have called myself, been busy, and know he's a guy that can take care of himself, given his previous occupation!

[Marie26]

43. Yep.

Raging egomaniac. The original angry white male. "Savior of the Middle Class." He's apparantly awful to work with, if the rumors can be believed at all.

[in_cog_ni_to]

9. OBVIOUSLY, Lou hasn't read "State of Denial" by Woodward.

If he had, he'd know where the blame lies and that's right at the feet of Rumsfeld, CHENEY and the IDIOT.

[sam sarrha]

11. you cant expect more from corporate Whores.. but Dobbs does do some good

things..

reminds me of a story about of Bu$h... Dubya dies at a ripe old age and meets the angle at the gates of heaven.. the angle looks at his books and can only find only in one thing he had done for others, so the angle goes to gOD and says i have this guy who has only done one charitable thing in his 92 years of life, he was 5 and his parents gave him a dime to put in the poor box... gOD replies.." well... give him his dime back and tell him to go to Hell."

[NNN0LHI]

13. Lieberman has done some "good" things too n/t

[sam sarrha]

17. Dobbs presently has a series on the destruction of the middle class and

sending jobs to china.. for profit.. he is asking some good questions and getting some everyday people victimized by the Fascists to speak their situation and suffering due to what is going on.

i doubt Lievermin has as much

i am certain Dobbs is on a short leash and i am really surprised his stealing of america programs are as good as they are.. but they are good.. he is trying to get the general to admit something.. Dobbs cant say the pResident is a stupid wet brain alcoholic drug addict psychotic narcissist.. but he is indicating it in some of his questions.. who else besides Oberman is doing it.

[NNN0LHI]

19. Does he put the blame on the Republican controlled congress and WH?

I never hear him do that. It would seem the logical thing to do if he was serious about it.

But he doesn't. He puts the same amount of blame for everything equally on Dems and Republicans which is a flat out lie.

Don

[sam sarrha]

26. this isnt a perfect world, somethngs you have to chip at to destroy it and

if he came out and made a rash to his boss, but true statement he would lose his forum to be able to do what he can..

an old african proverb.. 'lord if i cant do great things, may i do small things in a great way'.

and dobbs does that every day.. quit complaining about others not doing enough when they are doing something, and often much more than you are,

[NNN0LHI]

29. Oh bullshit

If Dobbs can't come out and say the truth, that the Republicans who have been running everything for the last 6 years are responsible for the hole the Republicans have dug for us he is nothing but a worthless piece of shit.

Anyone can't see that is being disingenuous.

Don

[sam sarrha]

28. if you did that at your job to the plant manage would you still have a job

id so quit whining and bless him for what he is doing.. my whole family was watching the program about the destruction of the middle class.. when my wife wants to watch something other than the 14th rerun of Raymond or Friends.. that is Serious shit.. she was captivated.. she kept saying, they are finally making this public.. i didn't thing anyone else was into this but you. i have never seed anything like this.. and she is on Prozac

[ComerPerro]

48. Let me suggest a few things to you

Step one: Take down your Lou Dobbs posters and framed pictures

Step two: Blow out the candles that light your shrine to Lou Dobbs. They are a potential fire hazzard.

Step three: Stop this pathetic hero worship of so-called "true conservatives", just because they pretend to care about you doesn't mean they actually give a shit.

[TAPat]

54. Thank you!

:rofl:

Sorry - Can't. Help. Myself.

[niallmac]

15. At what point General, by the way I love you. At what point

do we accept the fact we are a white Christo Fascist nation and that we kill
more poor brown people than malaria and usually we kill to maintain reasonable
gas prices?

[warrens]

38. You're misunderstanding the conversation

Dobbs wasn't trying to get at whose fault the war was, but whose fault the poor performance of the U.S. forces is. Bush, evil as he is, is not in charge of battles and war strategy. The generals are. And Dobbs was saying, if it's THIS bad, why has not one of these guys gotten fired? In EVERY war, generals get removed all the time. Why not here?

And that assclown Grange was trying to blame it on the media or something. He's a total waste of skin.

[Cosmocat]

47. Lou is a mixed bag ...

He does some good, but he has his glitches ... I saw another similar discussion the other day, and whoever he was dealing with was putting the burden on Bush and Rummy, but Lou got cantakerous and wanted to lay it at the foot of the generals ... That seems to be his agenda with this right now, and he is WAY off base on it ...

His big glitch with the whole illegal thing is not accepting the path to citizenship ... For the record, I am ALL about doing pretty much whatever we need to secure the borders, and hammering the shiite out of those who hire illegals AND it does burn me good that those who broke the law by coming in illegal might be able to not be prosecuted for it ...

But, REALITY is that there are at least 10 million illegals in this country, and even if you didn't have the most incompetent admin in our country's history running the show, there still would be NO way to put all 10 million out, so logic dicates you have to do the path to legalization ... I have seen a couple people lay that out for him, but he still screams about amnesty ...

Same thing right now about this situation ... It ain't the generals fault they were put into play by lies, and have been WHOLEY mismanaged by the civilian leadership ...

[ComerPerro]

51. not mixed. The correct word is "Gas". Lou is a gas bag

[genie_weenie]

42. The United States is Supreme! How can we lose? Why it must be

because, "Critics of the war were not simply questioning its strategy or its necessity, or upholding the best of American traditions by raising concerns over how enemy prisoners were being treated. Instead, they were aiding the enemy, and actively endangering our fighting men and women

That is why, though its origins are elsewhere, the stab in the back has become the sustaining myth of modern American nationalism. Since the end of World War II it has been the device by which the American right wing has both revitalized itself and repeatedly avoided responsibility for its own worst blunders.

http://www.harpers.org/StabbedInTheBack.html