7 adoptive kids die in Florida- 15 year old illegally driving

[Erika]

Why were 7 kids under the age of 15 allowed to be transported by the oldest adoptive child? She, herself, was only 15. No adults. Someone needs to hold Jeb Bush responsible for the atrocities he's allowed to affect adopted children. The time is now.

[JI7]

1. whatever happened to the Rilya Wilson case ?

i remember she went missing and it was news for a while. but she was just a black little orphan girl so i guess some didn't think it was important enough to stay on the case.

[Erika]

2. Yeah, she was not a Natalie Holloway

It is disgusting that right wingers want to outlaw abortion but give the kids to kooks like Jeb Bush and the State of Florida.

[Warpy]

3. It doesn't look like the 15 year old driver was at fault

although they are going to question just why she was driving the car without an adult present.

The accident was caused by a truck carrying bottled water that slammed into the car, which had stopped for a school bus. The force of the crash pushed the car into the school bus and pushed the bus over 200 feet. I'm afraid Jebbie's off the hook for this one, unless he's gutted safety regulations for trucks in the state, too, along with regulations limiting how long drivers are behind the wheel at a stretch. Police reports said there was no indication the driver of the truck had hit his brakes at all.

This is just one of those awful things. As much as I'd dearly love to blame Jebbie for it, I'm afraid that isn't the case now. Besides, there are enough legitimate things to hang on the bastard.

[LisaL]

4. The child should not have been driving, regardless.

To allow fifteen year old to illegally transport six other kids is ludicrous.

[izzie]

5. It seems to me she was stopped as she should have been

Looks like it is the truck even if she should not have been in the car alone. I just do not go on the highways any more because the trucks are scary. I have driven every place in my time but old age has got me off the roads. I recall once an 18 wheeler pulled over three lanes in front of me to get to a turn off. And I was going 60 or so so he must have been going 70. It was really scary to every one that almost drove off the road to get out of his way. Who is going to fight with trucks like that? We know they can not stop fast as they are to heavy. I once worked in a store where they all stopped at and they were free with why. It was off the main highway and they were all over weight.My daughter's car was totaled when one did not see her and pulled over her car turning, What saved her was she was at a stop light but he still pulled her car right around the corner. States just let them get away with it and I guess it it just greed.

[DoYouEverWonder]

6. A bit off subject

but I am curious has to why one family was allowed to adopt so many children? Maybe they were a package deal or related to the parents showhow, but I know a lot of people who want to adopt and are lucky to get one child, maybe two if they are really lucky, but seven?

[LisaL]

7. Adopted seven children and apparently let the child

who had no driving license to drive the rest of them around. It boggles the mind.

[theHandpuppet]

8. According to an article I read this morning

The mother claims the child was driving her siblings home to get ready for church.

Um... I guess better to have a fifteen year old behind the wheel driving a car full of children than to miss church, huh.

[LisaL]

9. Yes, as long as they were going to church...

WTF does anyone thinks, who allows a fifteen year old without a license to drive a whole bunch of other little kids around? It's an accident waiting to happen.

[jbnow]

36. It was wrong

She probably had just a learners permit. But the young driver had done nothing wrong to cause the accident. The truck driver was completely at fault, didn't even break, said he wasn't paying attention. If an adult had been driving it would just be another dead person.
Though if I were the parent I'd like to have been the driver and died with them. What greater grief could there be then this loss?

[dysfunctional press]

53. not necessarily true-

The insurance company for the truck-driver will probably fight the liability issue in court,
and it might go something like this-

"But the young driver had done nothing wrong to cause the accident."
she most definitely put the car in harm's way, by being illegally behind the wheel- had she not been acting in an unlawful manner- all those kids could still be here today.

"If an adult had been driving it would just be another dead person."

I keep hearing this- and it doesn't really make sense- if an adult had been driving- circumstances would be different, and the timeline would have probably been altered enough so that the van would not have occupied that space at that time.

[politicat]

20. Special needs and older children; adopting out of foster care.

It's not as hard to adopt if you're willing to take older, special needs children, and there are therapists who will state any child is a special needs child by diagnosing Reactive Attachment Disorder (which doesn't really exist in the numbers in which it is diagnosed; there's an industry devoted to it that ends up seriously hurting children and impoverishing parents.... Google "Candace Newmaker").

[DoYouEverWonder]

32. Yes, I was thinking of people who only want

young babies.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LisaL]

40. They had very young children too.

They were adopting a one year old. I really don't understand how some people can adopt a bunch, while others having trouble getting one.

[DoYouEverWonder]

51. I found out this morning

that I'm connected to these people. (See my post below) Turns out that they are poor but loving folks who were willing to take in kids who needed a home for one reason or another. Some are related, some are not. Lot's of questions about the social issues involved in these situations but I can say that these were good people trying to take care of these kids with very limited means.

[Bridget Burke]

10. The truck driver did not hit his brakes but just plowed into the van.

All seven children in the van died horribly when it was pushed into a school bus, off the road, & then exploded. Some children on the school bus were badly injured.

So let's put the 15 year old's illegal status in the headline. This happened in a rural setting where some people actually live in house trailers. And the kids were on their way to church, so I'm sure some here will consider them no great loss. "Just a bunch of Fundy Crackers."

The FHP identified the dead children as Cynthia Nicole Mann, 15; Elizabeth Mann, 15; Johnny Mann, 13; Heaven Mann, 3; Anthony Lamb, 20 months; Ashley Keen, 14; and Miranda Finn, 10; all of the same household.

Ashley and Miranda are sisters, and their mother is a sister of Barbara Mann, the mother of the other children, including the youngest, who was in the process of being adopted. Ashley and Miranda had just moved from the Gainesville area and Wednesday was their first day of school in Union County, Sheriff Jerry Whitehead said. Troopers said Cynthia Mann was driving illegally....

Authorities planned to interview Wilkerson, the truck driver. The FHP's Burroughs said Wilkerson was seen taking pictures of the accident rather than helping the injured. State records show he has a criminal record and numerous driving infractions.

www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/orl-bk-schoolbuscrash012506,0,7630101.story?coll=ny-leadnationalnews-headlines

[LisaL]

11. The driver should get what is coming to him.

But that doesn't mean someone should allow a fifteen year old without a driving license to drive a bunch of babies around. That is criminal too.

[theHandpuppet]

12. And the kids were on their way to church....

"And the kids were on their way to church, so I'm sure some here will consider them no great loss."

Y'know, that comment was really uncalled for. There are a number of adults responsible here, including the truck driver who caused the accident. That does not excuse the parents, however, who turned over the responsibility of driving their children to a 15 year old. If it came between letting a 15 year old drive a carload of kids or being late for church, I'd pick the latter. We don't know just how long this had been going on, but it's irresponsible. In the end, though, it was the truck driver who must be held accountable for the deadly accident. Consdiering that the truck never seemed to slow down before it hit the car, one has to assume alcohol/drugs or a medical condition was involved.

Edited to add: the company who hired this jerk should be sued for every penny they frikkin' have. They must shoulder as much responsibility for letting this guy drive a truck as the parents who let a child drive.

[Gormy Cuss]

24. Thank you Bridget

Yes, it was a bad decision to let a 15 year old drive her siblings around. I think the mother knows that.
What's important apparently is that we look for a way to deflect from the truck driver and find ways to blame the victims.

[ET Awful]

13. The age of the children has nothing whatsoever to do with it.

If an adult had been driving, the accident still would have happened. The vehicle was at a complete stop and was hit from behind by a truck that never hit their brakes.

This is about a truck driver who had previously been cited for unsafe driving and who was obviously not paying any attention to what he was doing.

If you want to hold someone responsible, hold the driver of the truck responsible, he's the one that did this.

[Bridget Burke]

14. So many here think the 15 year old is the most important detail

Of this whole terrible story. Seems an odd emphasis.

[ET Awful]

21. That's my point. The girl was stopped as she should have been

behind a bus. She was hit by a vehicle that made no effort to stop and was going fast enough to move the bus 200 feet from where it was stopped.

The age of the poor girl driving had nothing at all to do with it. Other than the tragedy of someone so young dying, her age is completely irrelevant.

[LisaL]

29. She had no license.

She was driving a whole bunch of kids around. Would the responsible parents allow this to happen? Yet these people were in a process of adopting yet another child, who also died in a crash. I am just saying-it ain't right.

[ET Awful]

42. Once again, it's irrelevant. ANYONE driving the same car and stopped

at the same place would be dead.

What ain't right is distracting from the fact that a reckless driver killed 7 kids to focus on the fact that one of his victims was an unlicensed driver.

[fishnfla]

28. Seems odder to me to blame Jeb

I'm not sticking up for the guy, but somehow the OP wants to hang this on him.

I never understand that

[npincus]

15. Goddamn... why didn't the mom adopt one more (older) one to be the driver?

http://www.gainesville.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060126/LOCAL/201260365/1078/news

Their identities were confirmed to The Sun by Tina Mann, a member of the family. The children killed were Cynthia Nicole Mann, 15; Elizabeth Mann, 15; Johnny Mann, 13; Heaven Mann, 3; Anthony Lamb, 21 months; Ashley Keen, 15; and Miranda Scott, 10. Tina Mann said Anthony Lamb was in the process of being adopted.

Johnathon Warfel, 20, said he was home on his day off from work when his cousin, Wesley Mann, 19, called him about the accident. Warfel's half-sister, Cynthia Mann, was driving the green Pontiac Bonneville.

Tina Mann told The Sun that Cynthia Mann had picked the children up from school and had only a learner's permit. She said she wasn't sure if Cynthia routinely drove the children to and from school.


WTF is a 15-year old doing driving 6 younger children around???? What the hell is wrong with the parents? If that particular highway is unsafe bacause it is narrow and fast-moving trucks often use it, as I have read quoted in other stories, why would a responsible parent let one child drive their other children on that road? Yeah, yeah, yeah- it was the truckdriver's fault. But perhaps an adult would have seen a truck approaching quickly in the rear-view mirror and swerved over to avoid a hit and/or beeped the horn to startle the driver ... instead of a child at the wheel probably distracted by the noise and activity of her siblings.

But not for the stupidity of the parents, letting a kid drive their other kids, they would probably be alive. Look, we hold Chimpy's paws to the fire to obey the law (which he doesn't), and we need to hold these parent's feet to the fire who broke the law and let a 15 year old drive with a LEARNER'S PERMIT, and let her drive ALL of their kids. Sheesh.

Flame away.

[kath]

18. An adult driver sitting in a STOPPED car behind a school bus would

be every bit as dead.

Sheesh.

[npincus]

19. Any parent who would put 6 kids, ages 5-21 months in a car with a

15 year-old unlicensed driver is playing roulette with the lives of those kids. It's ironic that the parents can't seem to stop increasing the size of their family yet can't take care of the ones they've got. If going to church at that time was important, where was an adult to drive them? There are so many dangerous idiots on the road, defensive driving by an adult driver may not be enough to prevent an accident, but putting a kid in that position is completely unfair to the child. That child wouldn't have a chance. Neither would the 5 year-21 month old passengers. Adults are supposed to know better. Adults should protect their kids as best they can. Piling the kiddies in a van and letting them drive themselves around is stupid, stupid, stupid. The asshole truckdriver will be prosecuted, if there is justice in the world. But what happens to the parents?

If sympathy for the parents horrible loss overwhelms the fact that they broke the law, it won't send a message to the other stupid-ass parents who think it's cute to let Junior drive the car.

[ET Awful]

22. So is it your assertion that had an adult been driving, they could have

magically levitated the car out of the way of a truck about to hit them from behind without attempting to stop?

The age of the driver is completely irrelevant to the accident, she was at a stop behind a school bus.

If the parent had been driving and had done the legal thing and stopped for the bus, guess what . . . the parent would be dead too.

Should a 15 year old be driving? Nope. But that has nothing whatsoever to do with this accident. ANYONE driving that car and having stopped behind that bus would still have been struck and killed by the truck. Whether it was Mario Andretti, a 15 year old girl or 97 year old Aunt Tillie from Pensacola. They are the victims here, and no, not the victim of the parents, but the victim of an out of control truck driver.

Hell, if the mom had been driving, you'd probably be screaming that it was her fault for having too many kids and too many passengers in the car. It's a BS argument, and the age of the victims does not put them at fault.

[LisaL]

33. Should the people allow their unlicensed children to

drive their siblings around? The kids were adopted. Were they kept safe, if such a thing was apparently allowed by their adoptive parents?
What if the couple decides to adopt more children? Should the couple be allowed to do so?

[Beaverhausen]

38. The accident wasn't the 15 year old's fault

Yes she shouldn't have been driving but right now that is beside the point. That truck driver should absolutely not have been driving.

[ET Awful]

44. If the couple had been driving and had stopped at the same place

and had been killed by the same reckless driver, would you say they hadn't kept the kids safe? Do you blame the victim in every case or just this one?

[npincus]

43. an adult MAY have seen a truck in the rear view mirror

that was not slowing down, said "oh shit!" and swerved out of the way just in time... MAYBE and maybe not. We'll never know.

The fact that these parents condoned their unlicensed CHILD to drive their other children horrifies me. If the cireumstances were different, and I read about a non-fatal fender bender or even something like this van having a flat tire but with the same scenario: a kid driving littler kids- I would be horrified as well. That is really, really wrong.

As for your last point, don't make assumptions about what I would have thought, as you don't know me. A parent can have as many kids as they like- I don't give a shit- as long as they are responsible for them. Read my post(s)- I don't blame those kids, though as I wrote, we will never know if adult reflexes and experience may have made a difference.

[Beaverhausen]

45. did you even read the details of the accident?

"The Florida Highway Patrol said they were in a green Pontiac Bonneville stopped behind the bus when the truck slammed into them."

how would they have gotten out of the way? The truck driver NEVER HIT THE BRAKES!

[ET Awful]

48. And, as I said above, where would they have swerved to?

They were directly behind another vehicle, there is no place to move . . . well I guess they could have backed up and . . . oh wait, no they couldn't.

[ET Awful]

47. If the adult was stopped directly behind a school bus, where exactly

would they swerve to?

Quit making up false arguments.

You're the one that made the argument about too large a family not me, it was your post that said "It's ironic that the parents can't seem to stop increasing the size of their family yet can't take care of the ones they've got."

Perhaps you should actually educate yourself instead of making false arguments. It doesn't matter WHO was driving the car, there was nowhere to swerve, they were stopped directly behind a school bus.

BTW, how often do you stare directly at your rearview mirror while waiting at a stop sign. How close are you to the vehicle in front of you? If you say you leave enough space every single time for you to swerve out of the way of someone who isn't going to stop, I'm going to call you a blatant liar.

Once again, it doesn't matter WHO was driving the car, they were directly behind another vehicle and could not have swerved, they were sandwiched into that vehicle, and that vehicle (the school bus) was knocked 200 feet. Here's a hint, if another vehicle is moving fast enough to throw a school bus forward 200 feet, you are NOT going to swerve out of the way in time, regardless of how experienced you are.

[Bridget Burke]

27. Not all the children were adopted.

Five of the children in the car were siblings, four of them adopted, and the other two were cousins.

As authorities tried to determine why the truck driver apparently didn't stop, the children's family tried to cope with unimaginable grief that grew even more after Wednesday's crash when the victims' grandfather died.

William Scott, 62, "had a massive heart attack tonight over all this," Barbara Mann, mother of some of the children, told CNN on Wednesday. "I can't deal with it."

www.forbes.com/home/feeds/ap/2006/01/26/ap2479763.html

You said "we need to hold these parent's feet to the fire." The fire that burned up the children has already gone out. Please, go down to Florida & start another one.

But they were rural folks & churchgoers. So--blame them.

[LisaL]

31. Responsible parent wouldn't have allowed the unlicensed child

to drive alone, let along with a whole bunch of other kids. But I guess that's neither here nor there, considering they are all dead.

[ET Awful]

49. Nah, a responsible parent would have been in the car and been

killed right along with them.

[pitohui]

16. the 15 yr old didn't cause the crash

by all means let's add to the family's pain by harping on a nitpick that made no difference

i drove at 15, yeah, it was legal then, and i didn't kill anyone, the reason 15 yr old girls are not allowed to drive today is pure discrimination, there is no reason a 15 yr old can't drive and drive well, their reactions are better, it's a good time to train their brain while it's still flexible, but the girls must pay for the irresponsibility of (some) boys in that age group

anyway as the young woman paid for her life that i would just as soon not add insult to injury

[GreenPartyVoter]

17. Exactly. There could have been a licensed adult in the passenger seat

instead. Would that have prevented the accident? Probably not. :(

[ET Awful]

23. Apparently they can drive better and more safely than a certain

truck driver. At the very least, they know to brake for a school bus.

[LisaL]

34. The truck driver shouldn't have been hired by that company

either. Apparently the guy had several driving violations. It's no surprise so many people die in car crashes each year.

[LisaL]

35. The teenagers are involved in a lot more car crashes than adults.

It's a fact. There is a reason for why the young teenagers aren't allowed to drive by themselves-it's for their safety and safety of others.

[ET Awful]

50. Yup, and they all die because a trucker with a history of driving unsafely

rearends them when they are stopped behind a school bus.

[deadparrot]

25. Related story: Grief-stricken grandfather of kids killed in crash dies

He had a heart attack. What an awful situation.
http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/local/state/orl-bk-crash012606,0,3378032.story?track=rss

[Sequoia]

26. Awful, just deep sadness. Prayers. Poor children. Damn.

Grandfather too.

[jbnow]

46. Makes one hope there is an afterlife

and grandpa is with the kids now.

Doesn't help those left grieving here.

[Beaverhausen]

30. This is so sad. I feel so bad for this family

and yes, no matter who was in that car, they would have probably been killed by the truck driver.

:cry:

[ET Awful]

52. I saw that on CNN earlier, I was going to post it, but judging by what

I'm seeing here, there are a few that would say his daughter killed him by letting a 15 year-old get killed by an incompetent and dangerous truck driver.

[DoYouEverWonder]

39. OMG, I found out when I got to work this morning

that three of my employees are good friends with this family.

Just this weekend one of them got married and a bunch of us went to the wedding party at their house. The younger kids that were killed in this accident were at the party. One of them was a beautiful little girl. My guess is between 3 and 4. A tiny little thing with long blond wavy hair. I can't believe I was watching this child playing just 5 days ago. :cry:

Needless to say there are a lot of people devastated by this accident.

[newportdadde]

41. You sound like the truck driver's company insurance adjuster.