"I DON'T SUPPORT our troops. This is a particularly difficult opinion...

[rfranklin]

to have, especially if you are the kind of person who likes to put bumper stickers on his car. Supporting the troops is a position that even Calvin is unwilling to urinate on.

I'm sure I'd like the troops. They seem gutsy, young and up for anything. If you're wandering into a recruiter's office and signing up for eight years of unknown danger, I want to hang with you in Vegas.

And I've got no problem with other people — the ones who were for the Iraq war — supporting the troops. If you think invading Iraq was a good idea, then by all means, support away. Load up on those patriotic magnets and bracelets and other trinkets the Chinese are making money off of...."

--read more at--

http://www.latimes.com/news/printedition/california/la-oe-stein24jan24,0,4430346.column?coll=la-headlines-pe-california

I find this columnist amusing. Read additional columns by clicking on titles on right side column.

[ScreamingMeemie]

1. I cannot cry watching the part of F9/11 where the military recruiters "go

to work" on our poorest citizens...and then turn my back on them when they are forced to wage war...It would be hypocritical. Anyone who holds an anti troop opinion, anyone who suggests they should lay down their guns and walk away...should, themselves, sign up and do as they suggest.

[Clark2008]

2. And... those recruiters are doing their jobs, too.

The trickery is within the administration. The recruiters are, if you will, a necessary evil. There's nothing wrong with trying to recruit new people, but it's sad that, with this job, you'd be sent over to secure oil and fat contracts for corporate America at the severe risk of your life.

[ScreamingMeemie]

3. As my husband's uncle ( a Navy recruiter) said to my husband,"If

I was a better man, I'd not be doing this...there is no honor in it."

There is someting wrong with turning our backs on the ones who need us most.

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LisaL]

5. First of all, it's a link to an article.

And second of all, the loyal patriots in the end are doing exactly what political war mongers want them to do.

[I Have A Dream]

6. The poster wasn't saying it. It was part of an article that he/she...

referenced. The person put quotes around it and mentions it in the post! Sheesh! :eyes:

[H2O Man]

7. I agree.

I have no interest in the opinion of someone who advocates an "I do not support the troops" stance. I'm glad that there really doesn't seem to be much of that diseased thinking in the democratic party, even though shitheads like Sean Hannity attempt to make it look otherwise.

[LisaL]

8. It's an opinion, just like any other opinion-some will agree with it,

and some won't. I guess you don't. Does it mean the person has no right to express it? And I do think that it is a bit hypocritical to not support the war, but support the troops.
:eyes:

[H2O Man]

9. I didn't say that,

which raises the question why you appear to attempt to attribute something you made up to me? There had been no discussion about trying to limit freedom of speech, other than on your post.

[LisaL]

10. I guess I took your "I have no interest in such an opinion" as

a sign that you think the opinion shouldn't have been posted.

[H2O Man]

11. Then that error

in thinking belongs to you. If I thought something shouldn't be posted, I would hit "alert." I will assure you I did not hit alert, as life has taught me that people can have opinions other than my own without me feeling threatened, or needing to make up silly things to attribute to them. To take that a step father, one of my brother's neighbors is upset. His 18-year old kid, who seems a decent guy, just joined the military. In conversation, the kid doesn't seem to have a clue what the conflict in the Middle East is about. I don't agree with his choice, but it doesn't follow that I do not "support him" in the sense of caring about his well-being, and feel terrible for his parents, who are sick over this. Nor do I feel compelled to make up silly things to attribute to him that really are not true at all.

[LisaL]

12. You could have said " I disagree with it".

To say that " I have no interest in such an opinion" is to imply that opinion couldn't possibly have any value to anyone, IMO.

[H2O Man]

13. That belongs to you, too.

It only implies the opinion is of no value to me. I will continue to speak for myself, and hope others will do the same.

[LisaL]

15. Speaking for myself, I think it's a valuable opinion.

[H2O Man]

25. No surprise there.

When one hunts rabbits, and you come upon one, you don't need to chase it. Just wait patiently, and a rabbit will almost always run in a circle, and come back to where it started. People are not that different: usually, it only takes a few minutes of waiting until things come full circle, and almost without exception, those who accuse others of something they did not do, are merely projecting.

As I said earlier, people with limited insight -- like Sean Hannity -- view the world in narrow, rigid, and black and white terms. Sean believes that there are only two possibilities: you support the war, or you don't support the troops. He is convinced that only a hypocrite could say they are against the war, but support the troops. Closed minds, like closed rooms, tend to be stuffy. There is no contradiction between being against this war, but being concerned for our troops' safety. It's one of the best reasons for wanting to bring those troops home.

[ComerPerro]

14. The guy is begging to be a feature story on the OhReally Factor

[ScreamingMeemie]

16. Did you see Colbert waxing O'Reilly last night?

It was hysterical. Apparently Bill O'Reilly says he likes Steven's show at a party. :rofl:

[ComerPerro]

22. OhReally has a decent enough sense of humour

he might even be a decent guy to hang out with, if it weren't for the fact that he is such a lying, pompous, arrogant jackass.

[Branjor]

17. This reminds me of something I read....

a while back about being poor.

"Being poor is being relegated to a sidebar labelled 'collateral damage' in an article which discusses whether or not your killers are sufficiently supported."

[Vogon_Glory]

18. I Also Disagree With That LA Op-Ed Piece

Count me in as another person who disagrees with this article. I think that the troops do need and deserve support, no matter how strongly we disagree with the proffered and actual premises for the Iraq invasion and how strongly we feel that the current leadership in DC should be thrown out of office in disgrace.

As the balloon for the Iraq invasion was going up, a letter-writer to a local Texas newspaper wrote about another war where people could and did support the troops and oppose the decision to go to war. During World War II, German women knitted mittens and scarves for the German troops inside the Soviet Union despite the fact that they opposed the Hitler regime's decision to invade Russia in the first place.

I still oppose the invasion of Iraq. I think it was unnecessary, has created a continuing economic and political crisis in the area, and has harmed the US. I believe that the people who foisted this war on the US ought to be fired in disgrace and that some of them ought to stand trial for breaking international law.

I will continue to support the troops. I will continue to send at least a few pence to the USO and veterans' organizations. And I will not stand silent while some little smart-a** tries to claim political superiority by mocking the people who chose to go in harm's way.

Is this Stein person a right-wing agent provocateur? He's certainly acting like a right-wing double agent if this is typical of his writing.

[LisaL]

21. Maybe if those german women hadn't knitted those mittens the

war would have been over sooner.

[Vogon_Glory]

26. Someone Forgot Who Was In Charge of the Third Reich

Someone needs to remember their history. They seem to have forgotten that Adolf Hitler and the Nazi Party were in charge of the Third Reich and brooked no dissent. Those women knitting mittens were supporting their offspring and neighbors.

Those progressives who choose to slam the US soldiers on the ground in Iraq are doing Karl Rove's and Dick Cheney's work for them at sliming other progressives, even if they aren't actually right-wing agents provocateurs themselves.

[bigtree]

19. hey rfranklin

do the best you can. the killing is awful and anything associated with it is offensive.

these men and women are in a hell of a spot though. many joined when the military was an instrument in a more sensible era of relative peace under Clinton. The U.S. made more sense then, at least on the surface, where our enlisted folk were involved.

These men and women, many young and impressionable, come to the military through a diversity of motivations. Many are looking for their first meaningful job, financially strapped and locked out of any other opportunity, and many come to the service for some validating measure of responsibility to give their life definition. It should be a noble undertaking. It has become a nightmare of imperialism and expansionism under Bush. They are used as tools of this warmongering regime which hungers with greed and grasps for power.

It would be amazingly misguided to question these soldier's motivations though. It's an agonizing choice for many to give up such a large part of their life at such an opportunistic age to the service of our country. It is service. It is their gift to all of us that they choose to put their lives on the line to protect and ensure our safety.

I wouldn't recommend it. I think the world has enough militarization. We need other types of service as teachers, medical workers, legal practitioners, public officials at all levels of government. None of these necessarily have to begin with military service to make them more meaningful. There is honor in folks choosing to enlist, but, there is less honor in the ways they are required to exercise that service under Bush. There is less honor in choosing to join to be part of Bush's colonization of Iraq and Afghanistan.

But once they are there, once they arrive in the theater of war, we mustn't forget that they are us. We are the merchants of their deeds or misdeeds. We, as Americans bear great responsibility for what they do in our country's name. That's why we protest and appeal for rationality, balance, and humanity in the conduct of our nation's foreign affairs. That's why I appeal to end this occupation of Iraq in the name of these soldiers. They are us. We are they. And, we desperately need to find a way to bring them home and provide leadership that ensures they will never again be subject to jingoistic agendas and megalomaniacs bent on dominating the world with our military.

do the best you can rfranklin. do the best you can to support our soldiers. please.

[LisaL]

20. I agree with the guy-it's a hypocrisy to say

that you are against the war, but support the troops.

[I Have A Dream]

24. It was an article -- not his/her opinion necessarily. n/t

[insane_cratic_gal]

23. It's apathetic and dry

I know the author was going for satire, but It's my opinion they missed the mark. There is nothing even remotely funny or witty, or intelligent about the column. The points are tired and lack luster and very much show a generation gap.

If you aren't old enough to remember who anti war activist treated Vietnam vets, perhaps you should look it up. They weren't only treated badly by the youth of the era but by their own government afterward. The mentality of "support the troops" comes from that exact era.

War is ugly and messy, rarely is it for the right reasons, but it is not troops who sign declarations of war. They do what they are trained to do.
They will come home, try to accumulate to life and probably fail a few times before either drinking themselves to death or drugging. Reckless driving, memory flash backs, and suicide will probably be among the darkest halls they will walk. Some of them will recover, become the future generation of democrats, and antiwar activists, because if there is one thing about war, no one who lives through one ever remains unchanged.

They have their own struggles to contend with, they don't need some asshole's high ground morality to contend with, especially when they admit to being rich and privileged. Rarely, does someone in the military sign up so they can go fight a war, if they do.. they learn soon enough. The last thing a human being needs is another kicking them when they are down because that just makes you look like an asshole and a bully.

But good luck with that attitude for those who adopt it. I'm biased, however, I'm married to a Navy guy who voted for Kerry who doesn't believe we should be in Iraq, but let the assumptions run wild.

[mattclearing]

27. I've made a similar point in the past.

God bless and help the people who are over there, but I could never sign my life and my conscience away on the dotted line to kill human beings for some politician or corporation.

I don't support violence as a means of change. It's wrong when terrorists do it and its wrong when a nation-state does it.

I feel that those who volunteer for our military often mean well, but may not realize that they are putting themselves in an untenable moral position.

There is nothing moral about abdicating one's free will and ending the lives of others against their will.

I think a lot of veterans understand this, but would be interested to hear the point of view of those who have actually served, as I am not qualified to speak for them.

[maxsolomon]

28. Bill Hicks once said

"I was FOR the war, but AGAINST the troops".

This was during Gulf War 1.

"Support" is a meaningless term debased by fascist propaganda. A distraction on par with Flag Burning. It is utterly besides the point. EVERYONE who pays their taxes "supports" the troops, as well as the entire Military Industrial Complex.