My liberal litmus test

[boolean]

To me anyone who isn't all of the following isn't a liberal.

1) Supports universal health care
2) Supports restrictions (NOT OUTRIGHT BAN) and regulations on the ownership of firearms.
3) Supports gay marriage. (NOT "Civil Union" or some other such nonsense)
4) Supports the free market for perfectly competitive industry and some government regulation on oligopoly and duopoly and much government regulation on monopolies.
5) NO PRIVATIZATION of ESSENTIAL services needed by the PEOPLE. (See #1). In addition to health care, this includes utilities, infrastructure, and education. In other words, no toll roads.
6) No war. Ever. Unless sanctioned by the U.N. or unless DIRECTLY ATTACKED by another SOVEREIGN NATION.
7) No death penalty. At all.

I can add more, but these are the big ones.

[Pharaoh]

1. I'll vote for that

:toast:

[lcordero2]

2. I have to rebuke that

I want to see a corporate death penalty and a white collar death penalty.

[goddess40]

3. I'm with you, but otherwise I agree 100%

Such simple things that are good for everyone - except the white collar criminals that are running and benefiting under this regime.

[Pharaoh]

4. death has no place

if you are a compassionate liberal.

[Sherman A1]

6. Agreed

However, I could think very nicely about some scoundrel CEO clearing minefields with a stick or spending time at a lovely Federal Facility on a balmy Caribbean Island working on their tan......

[Pharaoh]

8. Oh Yeah!

I'm all for that!

Or helping poor people or something useful.

[MrModerate]

5. Per my handle, I'm a "moderate" liberal . . .

and here's my response to your list:

1) Universal health care -- Yes (single payer or some hybrid, but get rid of the frakkin' insurance companies that suck money and provide no value).
2) Regulations on firearms -- don't need both regulations *and* restrictions, just sensible regulations and better enforcement.
3) Gay marriage -- well, I'd call it same-sex marriage, but that's a quibble. I'm also opposed to civil unions: if you want the privileges of spousehood, you have to take on the obligations, and hence get married.
4) Free market...government regulation...oligopoly...duopoly...monopolies -- Yeah sure. That's a knotty one and might take a political economist to unravel your terminology.
5) Privatisation of essential services -- Toll roads clearly suck; health care needs to be universally available; government should only fund secular/public schools (i.e., you want a private school of any flavor, you gots to pay). However, once you get into "infrastructure," "utilities," etc., it gets much more complicated. I'd favor some mix of market and socialized services in what is really a very broad swath of human needs.
6) No war -- Certainly no preemptive war. Defensive actions of a military character but short of war? Maybe.
7) Death penalty -- Agreed. It's wrong, it's useless, and it's too expensive to implement.

To which I'd add:

8) Respect for American traditions of individual liberty. Which is to say, those who recently voted for the torture bill have got some serious 'splainin' to do.

[elocs]

7. Only 32% of Democrats ideologically describe themselves as "liberals".

http://pewresearch.org/obdeck/?ObDeckID=75

Although that number has grown in recent years, there are still 2/3 of Democrats who do not consider themselves to be liberals. I am sure that percentage is much higher at DU, but if the Democratic Party wants to hold onto power it cannot simply pander to its liberal wing. The truth of the matter is that most Americans are NOT liberals, but still should be able to find a place in the Democratic Party. It is common to hear Republicans refer to all Democrats as "liberal", and so they may be compared to Republicans, but within their own party most are not liberals.

[Pharaoh]

10. They made it a dirty word

if you look up liberal and conservative in the dictionary, I would call myself a liberal.

[elocs]

17. I would agree with that,

but within the political spectrum of the Democratic Party, those who consider themselves to be "Liberal" are in the minority. I have seen too many litmus tests here at DU that are used as grounds for casting somebody who disagrees out of the party altogether. For instance, any who are not rabid about the immediate impeachment of Bush to the exclusion of all else are accused of being "freepers" or "RWers" or supporting the Republican Party. No difference of opinion within the party seems to be respected by those who call themselves Liberal on that subject, and others as well. If somebody agrees with the vast majority of points which make a Democrat a Democrat, but not on a few others, does that mean they cannot be a Democrat and are therefore conceded to the Republicans? Liberals, and I consider myself to be one, need to be more pragmatic on some issues and realize that not all Democrats will agree with their opinions and most Democrats are not Liberals (I prefer to capitalize "Liberal".) The Democratic Party is a big tent and can be accommodating to many points of view, and welcoming of their expression, and able to reach a consensus on the most of them.

[Ravy]

11. Going by the OP, there would be far less than that. n/t

[proud2BlibKansan]

9. I favor a ban on guns

and I am pro-choice.

And don't you dare say I am not a liberal.

[NJ Democrats]

12. Pretty much agree

1) Supports universal health care- Yes
2) Supports restrictions (NOT OUTRIGHT BAN) and regulations on the ownership of firearms. Agree
3) Supports gay marriage. (NOT "Civil Union" or some other such nonsense)Defintily
4) Supports the free market for perfectly competitive industry and some government regulation on oligopoly and duopoly and much government regulation on monopolies. Agree, but that is a tough one to enforce and all
5) NO PRIVATIZATION of ESSENTIAL services needed by the PEOPLE. (See #1). In addition to health care, this includes utilities, infrastructure, and education. In other words, no toll roads. ok
6) No war. Ever. Unless sanctioned by the U.N. or unless DIRECTLY ATTACKED by another SOVEREIGN NATION. Err, no pre-emptive war, but I wouldn't go as far as you say.
7) No death penalty. At all. Yes.

[Norbu]

13. your litmust test is absurd

I support progressive taxation and fiscal responsibility, Clinton style

you don't even mention taxes or economic inequality, but you harp on divisive issues like gay marriage

for example, it's common knowledge that gay women tend more towards long term committed relationships than gay men, so a pragmatic policy might acknowledge lesbian marriage might actually strengthen the institution of marriage, unlike marriage with gay men

war involves complex maneuverings of military forces, proxy forces, media manipulation, deception, simply making a grandstanding proclomation of nonaggression might be all well and good but hardly address the actual issues of national security

think Clinton's "common good" not "ideological" weak bullshit

[BootinUp]

19. Hi Norbu.

Welcome to DU.

:hi:

[never_get_over_it]

24. Absurd?

my how completely tolerant and liberal of you - you see the thing is it is the OP's litmus test and therefore could not be absurd - you are perfectly free to make up your own freaking litmus test.

and I guess by mentioning Clinton in your post you are inferring that either one of them is liberal - now that is absurd.....

[La Lioness Priyanka]

27. if your marriage policy is implemented heterosexuals should

NEVER be allowed to marry..since they have a fucking 50% divorce rate

and only lesbians should get married

[brentspeak]

14. Divisive thread

[BootinUp]

16. agreed.

[elocs]

18. Agreed, inasmuch as we should not be looking for reasons

to exclude people from the Democratic Party by using litmus tests, but rather to bring them into our tent. If they disagree with too much of what most Democrats believe, they will not want to come in anyways.

[cool user name]

15. I'm down for all 7.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

28. Me too, plus a bit more that make people insult me with my username. -nt

[VeggieTart]

20. I agree with most of what you're saying

I would not agree with free markets ever simply because they are lawless markets. I think there needs to be a third party to keep an eye on things to ensure that producers and consumers receive fair treatment.

As for gay marriage, I say call it civil unions and give them all the rights of marriage. It's semantics, really. Who cares what it's called as long as these couples have the same rights as straight couples? I believe that two men or two women should have the right to file joint tax returns and have access to family health plans and all the other rights of marriage. Heck, there are gay couples who have been together for decades, longer than some of the "defense of marriage" folks have held together their marriages. And so what if gay male couples are less likely to be monogamous; there are plenty of straight couples who are not monogamous who have happy marriages. If you ever read Dan Savage's "Skipping Towards Gomorrah," you'll know what I mean.

One thing you forgot was a liberal supports a woman's right to choose and wishes they didn't need to make that choice. Believes in preventing unwanted pregnancy and ensuring pregnant women have access to prenatal care and care for their babies once they are born.

[neebob]

21. Why #2?

I'm as liberal as they get, and I don't do firearms myself, but I don't have a very well-formed opinion on restrictions for other people. I figure the bad people are always going to get as many of any and all kinds of guns that they want, as long they're being made, and I don't much like the idea of the government agencies controlling who has them - certainly not the government we have right now. And the simple fact that we have this government makes me think twice about allowing another, more trustworthy government to do any more than they already can.

And why make such a list in the first place? I could think of several things to add to it - reproductive choice, total separation of church and state (including taxing churches), legalizing drugs, living wage, election reform, tax reform, and all kinds of environmental stuff - but I'm not sure those things are all liberal values as much as they are just my values or my wish list.

I sometimes think I might like to lock up all the sociopaths and use them in place of animals for research, or maybe just make them do some kind of socially valuable work ... poof! There goes the gun problem. And you say I can't be a liberal. :(

[Warren DeMontague]

22. Here's mine:

Supports Reproductive Choice.

Supports Self-Determination in life choices, including end-of-life choices.

Supports the right of consenting adults to make their own decisions about their consenting adult sex lives, including the right of gays to get married, and including the right of consenting adults to view porn made by and with other consenting adults.

Wants an end to the drug war, and the full legalization (and regulation and taxation) of Marijuana.

Supports a SPHC system and a liveable minimum wage.

Is UNWAVERING about the Separation of Church and State, Free Speech, and the First Amendment which protects them both.

Believes we should withdraw from Iraq, that it is an immoral, misguided war based on lies-- and is a misuse of lives and resources to boot.


I realize all these may not be realistic expecations of ALL candidates, nevertheless I think it's an agenda that is in line with the true fundamental values of the American People, is worth striving for and can win us elections long-term.

[bluedogyellowdog]

23. I flunk

:eyes:

Let's look at #4. By "the free market for perfectly competitive industry" do you mean no regulation whatsoever unless the business is an oligopoly, duopoly, or monopoly? I can't go for that at all. Even in a perfectly competitive industry there need to be environmental, wage, and workplace safety regulations. Hope I'm not misunderstanding you here.

Ones positions on guns, the death penalty, and toll roads, I don't see how they are litmus test issues at all. Peripheral issues at best. To me a liberal is somebody who accepts the principles of the Enlightenment and what followed - belief that people have inalienable rights, belief in a representative democracy, freedom of speech and conscience, government as having a positive role in ensuring all these things, etc.

[novalib]

25. TOTAL REPRODUCTIVE FREEDOM!!

Any TRUE Liberal supports TOTAL Reproductive Freedom FOR ALL!!

[benEzra]

26. If by #2, you mean banning more guns than are already banned,

then Russ Feingold flunks your test, since he voted against the "assault weapon" bait-and-switch. Is he not a liberal? I think he'd disagree...

The problem with litmus tests is the underlying mentality "I am a member of Group X, and no one else can be identified as a member of Group X unless they believe exactly like I do."

Someone who rates reproductive choice, privacy, and first amendment issues higher than you, but who doesn't share your disdain for owners of nonhunting guns, doesn't meet your definition of a "liberal." That rules out a lot of Dems.